GN's Goals, Scope, Approach, & Reporting Stances & Policies (NEW video)

[fartmuncher69_420]

I'm hoping TechTechPotato/Ian or someone with a journalism background can do another deep dive comparing GNs 'Reaching out' policies to other organisations 'Right to Reply' or 'Fair opportunity to respond' editorial policies. I'm reading GN's against Ofcom/BBC and others and they prima facie do not seem to align very well. The opportunity for a subject to make a public statement before a story is published, or reducing the impact of a story is not a legitimate reason to not offer the subject an opportunity to respond or seek comment according to other journalistic organisations. The reasons other places mention are "possible interference with witnesses or those to whom we have a duty of care, or other legal reasons." 

 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

1 hour ago, Kronoton said:

As for Der8auer being treated differently, I don't see when and where that happened. If he or the company(ies?) he is involved with are caught doing something shady and Steve stays silent, thats when you have a case.

 

Well i saw GN literally calling him a friend a few times already and yet he did have his stuff on their videos and got sponsored by ThermalGrizzly also on some videos. And in the video that was deleted he said he will not allow buddy to buddy relationships within the industry as that will allow corruption to seep in. Well we will see what the future brings.

 

Look i don´t mean to tell people who they can be friends with, but if you start treating people in your industry a certain way you gotta stay true to your word and live with the consequences.

[Kresnik-02]

5 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Well i saw GN literally calling him a friend a few times already and yet he did have his stuff on their videos and got sponsored by ThermalGrizzly also on some videos. And in the video that was deleted he said he will not allow buddy to buddy relationships within the industry as that will allow corruption to seep in. Well we will see what the future brings.

 

Look i don´t mean to tell people who they can be friends with, but if you start treating people in your industry a certain way you gotta stay true to your word and live with the consequences.

How you can watch 45 minutes of the monotone monologue of that guy?

[Guest]

I haven't seen the video as it was set to private before I could see it, but after reading GNs response to the initial criticisms of the video, it seems that potentially he may be reflecting on his approach, which is what he needs to do IMHO.  We can argue back and forth on whether he should have contacted Linus/LMG, but at the end of the day he can have his policies, however that doesn't mean they are 100% correct either.

 

My biggest issue with GN as of late (not solely because of this situation with LMG) is the fact that he goes on these long rants and opinion pieces where his thoughts and criticisms are not formulated very well. He comes across as very angry and while I applaud that he is trying to be consumer focused, he still needs to do it in a far more level headed and constructive way. These 30-45min rants do not fully get his points across and often times information is missed and/or not conveyed properly. This is why Ian's video was very good, because he did highlight areas that GN can improve, but you can tell he put in a lot of thought and time into it before making the video. Something that GN needs to work on IMHO.

 

Another thing that GN needs to do better IMHO (Ian stated this in his video as well) is just keep focusing on GN. Stop worrying about what others are doing and just keep going forward and only worry about you. If others are messing up, you make sure you do a better job and people will notice. In his Nvidia 12pin power connector video, he called out Jayztwocents and Igor's lab for what he thought (key word thought) was their attempt at doing subpar investigating. IMHO this was totally unnecessary, not because I am some fanboy of Jayztwocents, or Igor's Lab, but I fail to see why it was even relevant to his video...furthermore, who cares? People were watching your video for the analysis on the issue, not because they wanted your thoughts on what others have done. This is where he's losing the forest for the trees IMHO. He's spending too much time on trying to be this "crusader" instead of just focusing on what he does best and making sure he does his job to the best of his abilities.

 

Overall I was happy with his response to this video and I hope he is indeed reflecting on the matter and will work to improve in this regard going forward. At the end of the day no one is perfect and we all makes mistakes (LMG, Linus, GN, all of us), it more about learning from them and doing better going forward. That's the main lesson in all of this.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Kresnik-02 Well, i try, i just could watch it now that people here posted the link for streamable and i am in 20mins now. But tbf the topic is very dry. It wouldn´t acutally matter who i listen to talking about internal policies. It would always be a pain.

 

@Spec7re There is a link to streamable on page 2 where you can watch it.

[JoostinOnline]

Having seen some of the video now, I immediately understand why it was taken down. I don't think there's technically anything wrong with it (at least from the half I've seen), but just because everything is so sensitive right now, all their statements feel like jabs. I don't even think they actually are, but this was NOT the right time for it.

[Harlem_Shaker]

2 hours ago, kurangak said:

https://streamable.com/sw5jn6

heres GN's video that was taken down earlier, credit to reddit

I started to watch this and then just realized how much I don't care what Steve has to say and how much of a waste of my time it would be.  I find him too be far too smug.  I watch LTT for entertainment, not education.   That said, I will admit that the more serious accusations from former employees have left a sour taste in my mouth and I am anxious to see what the results of the investigation are.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Harlem_Shaker
Edited for grammar

[Absentia13]

4 hours ago, Battlenat0r said:

There seems to be a video grabbed before it was ¨removed¨ or privated.
Gamers Nexus: This is Important: Our Ethics Policies, Contact Transparency, & Reporting Stances

I'm gong to watch this knowing that GN took it down for a reason. Can't remember the last time they did that so obviously there was a purpose to it. 

[Rex Hite]

GN doubling down on the pretensions of journalism?

One of the reasons there is so little actual ethics where it's needed is because the word as used by them is self agrandising marketing rather than a description of behaviour.

 

GN, much like his competitors, is a market-segment advocate, in this case, for toys and games. The most they should say is that they attempt to keep  manufacturer's and retailer's  behaviour honest. And it's ok if they slip up. Nothing of value will have been lost if they get things as wrong as the multi-million dollar companies on whose back they sit like parasites.

 

'Honesty' should be their SOP, not the subtleties of the 'ethics' of activities of professions of which they know little. And so they set themselves up to fail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JoostinOnline]

43 minutes ago, Harlem_Shaker said:

I started to watch this and then just realized how much I don't care what Steve has to say and how much of a waste of my time it would be.  I find him too be far too smug.  I watch LTT for entertainment, not education.  

I would say this is why you find him smug. GN content is for education, not entertainment. I wouldn't describe Steve as smug at all. Just focused on information.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Well i saw GN literally calling him a friend a few times already and yet he did have his stuff on their videos and got sponsored by ThermalGrizzly also on some videos. And in the video that was deleted he said he will not allow buddy to buddy relationships within the industry as that will allow corruption to seep in. Well we will see what the future brings.

 

Look i don´t mean to tell people who they can be friends with, but if you start treating people in your industry a certain way you gotta stay true to your word and live with the consequences.

This is where people start to see and or question hypocrisy and to be fair I think it's a valid criticism. If you are going to go out of your way to state why others should have this standard, then you need to have the same standard applied to you. If you are "friends" with Der8auer and you sponsor, promote his brand/products (Thermal Grizzly) then you are doing the same thing you accuse others of doing. I am by no means saying that Der8auer and by extension Thermal Grizzly are bad, however if you are questioning another's ethics/morals on this very ground then either you need to follow through and lead by example, or standby and be called a hypocrite.  To which I would say you don't have the right to call out others if you are doing the same.

 

As you said, if this is how he wants to go about things sure, but you gotta live by the consequences.

[Basti0815]

39 minutes ago, Absentia13 said:

I'm gong to watch this knowing that GN took it down for a reason. Can't remember the last time they did that so obviously there was a purpose to it. 

Yeah, Mr. Perfect has made an error. Something for which he has just massively attacked others.

[JoostinOnline]

38 minutes ago, Absentia13 said:

I'm gong to watch this knowing that GN took it down for a reason. Can't remember the last time they did that so obviously there was a purpose to it. 

It happened just a couple of months ago, actually. It's not particularly rare. They usually do this whenever they're not satisfied with the quality of a video. I think the last time it was because there were new details on a story like an hour after they released one of their hardware news videos.

[Tanaz]

At the start of this entire drama I was 100% on GN's side and I genuinely believed that there is no agenda or a goal to tear LTT down. After watching TechTechPotato's video my perspective started to shift a little bit and after this deleted GN video it shifted further. Now don't get me wrong, 2 wrongs don't  make a right, I think Linus  100% deserved to get called out but I do also have this sense that Steve wants to tear down LTT for his own personal reasons that have nothing to do with objective journalism. There I said it, and in case I'm blamed for flip-flopping - yes that is what you're supposed to do when presented with new information. If something else comes to light I might "flip-flop" again.

[Mr. Rabbit]

Just now, Spec7re said:

This is where people start to see and or question hypocrisy and to be fair I think it's a valid criticism. If you are going to go out of your way to state why others should have this standard, then you need to have the same standard applied to you. If you are "friends" with Der8auer and you sponsor, promote his brand/products (Thermal Grizzly) then you are doing the same thing you accuse others of doing. I am by no means saying that Der8auer and by extension Thermal Grizzly are bad, however if you are questioning another's ethics/morals on this very ground then either you need to follow through and lead by example, or standby and be called a hypocrite.  To which I would say you don't have the right to call out others if you are doing the same.

 

As you said, if this is how he wants to go about things sure, but you gotta live by the consequences.

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

 

It was a matter of time before GN would be caught with their pants down, and this was just somewhat minor.

But the issue is, they can't be claiming they are journalists fighting for ethics and morality, and disregards basic journalistic rules with the justification that "we created our own set of rules, so you are wrong" and go "yes we do the same as what we accuse them of doing, but it's different because reasons"

 

I just hope everyone can step back, reflect on their mistakes and do better, because we all benefit from a strong GN, LTT, Paul's Hardware, Jay, etc.

 

[JoostinOnline]

2 minutes ago, Basti0815 said:

Yeah, Mr. Perfect has made an error. Something for which he has just massively attacked others.

Steve has literally never claimed to be perfect. Nor has he called anyone out for making errors. The criticisms have been for the actions people take after noticing those errors.

 

It's kinda sad that you think admitting to mistakes and taking actions to fix them is a bad thing.

[jos]

I was ok with LTT. Steve is over dramatic as always and Steve being Steve. But company culture made me concern, as I feel like human rights and fairness is important. But seeing response from Linus maybe the person is ....? No idea. May be third party investigation and I also suggest. Doing an audit on hr policies and yearly audit on hr complaince would make mind at ease.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I would say this is why you find him smug. GN content is for education, not entertainment. I wouldn't describe Steve as smug at all. Just focused on information.

It is very true the GN's main focus is deep dives which is cool and informative, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and to be fair that's fine. The great thing about this space is that everyone brings something different to the table, be it GN, LMG, Jayztwocents, etc... they all have different goals and approaches to what otherwise would be the same topics more, or less.

 

I think Steve's big problem is in his delivery. It does come across as being sumg and angry as of late and I can see why people think this way. He may not be like that as an individual, or tries to be like that on purpose, but his delivery often calls this into question. IMHO I think some of it is totally unnecessary and/or warranted. The example I used above in a previous post regarding his 4090 12Pin power connector video is a good example. IMHO that video was fantastic all the way until he started calling out others for how they tested this very same issue. This is where Steve can come across as smug and arrogant because I fail to see why he had to call them out in the first place? It didn't add anything of value and the only thing people cared about was what was causing the issue, not the methods others used to investigate the same issue. This is where Steve needs to take a step back and focus on GN more, rather than what others are doing. Having 40 mins videos may be interesting in many respects, but in situations like this it can come across as being defensive and ranty (something he accuses others of...).

 

[Vilacom]

9 hours ago, VicBar said:

 

 

GN has published, both on yt and on their website, a video explaining their policies for why and when they do or don't contact a company for comment before publishing a video. Among other things.

Much of the criticism, from even Linus himself, was about publishing without first "reaching out". It was deemed unethical, or not real "journalism" by Dr. Ian Cutress even. This was his main gripe with them iirc.

 

It didn't seem unfair to me to not contact LTT for the original video, and in the HW News vid they did they explained. But here it is in much more detail and with historical examples of how, when and why they choose to either contact or not contact a company for comment. This being Dr. Cutress of Techtechpotato's main problem with the exposé also led to many people declaring that GN does not do "real investigative journalism".

 

I'm not a journalist, and GN sprinkling opinions throughout their video I can understand as criticism. But what's you opinion on GNs practices?

For about 90% of the original video he had no need to ask LTT for a response, then again for that same 90% it had already been acknowledged that there were those exact issues, so basically just react content that came across as just finger pointing. 

The situation with Billet is different, it was presented in the most negative way possible with Steve very much implying LTT was willfully stealing a product they were always supposed to return from a poor little company trying to keep their feet under them and maliciously selling it off to their competitors under the guise of a charity auction.  Which is a just wild misrepresentation of a very standard breakdown in communications, which is a failure to be sure, but so separate from the context and facts of the matter it actually made me question every single thing in any “journalist” style video from GN.  For as extremely exacting as he wants(rightly) others to be in their hardware testing, he needs to hold himself to the same standard of presenting something that he 100% knows is going to hurt another brand while representing himself as an objective journalist.  But then, that video loses all its punch unless he has that particular storyline in it, so he clearly made a decision.  

LTT screwing up a number on a chart but the video comes to the overall correct conclusion is bad but doesn’t completely screw anyone.  GN representing LTT as some kind of malicious corporate saboteur did far more damage when considering what actually happened. 

[merch22]

2 hours ago, kurangak said:

https://streamable.com/sw5jn6

heres GN's video that was taken down earlier, credit to reddit

Thanks. I watched that video.

 

The second half is pretty well done, both the explanation and the use of examples.

 

But the first half (their journalistic approach) is where it hangs. Maybe this part is a response to the recent work, how many times did he say contact.
They have a policy, which is a good thing, whether it's been there for a while or they made it explicit for this one.
From what I see from the video they are trying to clearly explain their criteria for contacting parties about what they want to report, neither NEWEGG nor NZXT were contacted initially, that would be fully applicable to their policy.
However, if you take a step back, it is clear that one side is NEWEGG or NZXT, The other at best a customer, and at worst, "someone on the internet. So I am glad that GN is vocal on behalf of "customers", and it is good to communicate with companies as a follow-up to that.
Some of the reports to LMG could be adapted to that, The reason is some people point out that the quality as a reviews is declining and that the video production is looking shoddy. So no initial contact would be fully applicable to their policy too.

 

My takeaway is  Billet Lab and LMG are in a conflict of interest, and I think GN are overemphasizing the fact that LMG sold Billet Lab's assets without asking for an update from either side. And confidently call it a day. I don't think that can be dropped into the rules about contact in their policy.

At the same time, the relationship between LMG and the sponsors has nothing to do with their stance that the GN side has stated this time. It has absolutely nothing to do with who they hired, and since when can you use conspiracy theories as journalistic proof.

 

Taking into account this removed video. Basically, his first video started legitimately, connected inappropriately, and ended speculatively.

The main problem here is that they made everything into first video, so everything reflects the negative aspects of LMG, but they need to be handled separately.

He did a good job explaining the criteria for contact. He didn't mention anything about the overall approach or the methodology.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Rabbit said:

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

 

It was a matter of time before GN would be caught with their pants down, and this was just somewhat minor.

But the issue is, they can't be claiming they are journalists fighting for ethics and morality, and disregards basic journalistic rules with the justification that "we created our own set of rules, so you are wrong" and go "yes we do the same as what we accuse them of doing, but it's different because reasons"

 

I just hope everyone can step back, reflect on their mistakes and do better, because we all benefit from a strong GN, LTT, Paul's Hardware, Jay, etc.

 

I agree.

 

To be fair I do not wish any ill will towards Steve and by extension GN. I really enjoy his content, I just take issue on how he handles and or delivers information at times. If anything I knew the moment I watched Ian Cuttress's video this was going to be Steve's (GN's) defining moment based on how he was going to respond.

[JoostinOnline]

23 minutes ago, Spec7re said:

The example I used above in a previous post regarding his 4090 12Pin power connector video is a good example. IMHO that video was fantastic all the way until he started calling out others for how they tested this very same issue.

You mean here where he says it's not a sleight, it's just a more complicated issue than has been reported by other people?  That doesn't seem smug at all to me, or angry.  It's just clearing things up.

 

Also, as a reminder, they ended up being right.

 

PS: I just remembered I took issue with that video myself, but for a very different reason.  I didn't like they way they kept using "theory" in place of "hypothesis".

 

Edit: Also I 100% agree that there's nothing wrong with different formats.  Entertainment is a good thing.  And GN could probably use a little more humor.  I just don't think it's "smug".

[Mr. Rabbit]

1 minute ago, Spec7re said:

I agree.

 

To be fair I do not wish any ill will towards Steve and by extension GN. I really enjoy his content, I just take issue on how he handles and or delivers information at times. If anything I knew the moment I watched Ian Cuttress's video this was going to be Steve's (GN's) defining moment based on how he was going to respond.

I don't regularly watch GN, because I can see the paint drying up while he talks, and I need more than that when I put a video on background.

But when I need to check a review on something, I will always check his channel to see if they have a video on that, as I will check LTT, Jay, Paul's Hardware, etc.

 

My problem right now is that he stirred all this drama, painted himself as a paragon of morality and ethics in journalism, and when called on it, his response is to deflect criticism, make up his own rules, and when called on it again, he makes the video private and makes an empty statement about "not reading the room".

Never did he own up to his mistakes, and that makes me sad, because I want them to have quality, as it is good for everyone.

 

He calls himself an expert in journalism (in his personal Linkedin page), but then proceeds to ignore one of the basic foundations of journalism to stir up drama and take a competitor down a notch.

If this was about the true story, he would've given us both sides.
And when he didn't, he should've apologized for that, instead of doubling down.

 

And hopefully, LMG can actually fulfil their promises to do better, it would be great for everyone if they can get the Labs running full steam ahead with great precision.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

You mean here where he says it's not a sleight, it's just a more complicated issue than has been reported by other people?  That doesn't seem smug at all to me, or angry.  It's just clearing things up.

 

Also, as a reminder, they ended up being right.

 

PS: I just remembered I took issue with that video myself, but for a very different reason.  I didn't like they way they kept using "theory" in place of "hypothesis".

Hehe that's fair..

 

I guess for me it's why even bring it up in the first place. While I understood what he was saying and to be fair I didn't really think too much of it initially. However, it does have the potential to give off bad vibes and it's why I feel that he's losing a bit of focus by worrying on what other's are doing, rather than just focusing on doing his job to the best of his abilities. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, merch22 said:

Taking into account this removed video. Basically, his first video started legitimately, connected inappropriately, and ended speculatively.

The main problem here is that they made everything into first video, so everything reflects the negative aspects of LMG, but they need to be handled separately.

This is a good point.

 

Both the errors in LMG videos and the Billet Lab situation(s) are two separate issues and should have been treated as such. Sure for the data accuracy aspect he didn't really need to contact anyone at LMG in this regard. However, regarding the Billet Labs situation, he should have most definitely contact LMG. It was obvious things were still happening in the background while he was reporting on it and only reached out to one party on the matter. His framing of it wasn't very good either, as he painted Linus/LMG as this evil corporation that was purposefully and knowingly stealing someone's prototype. As a result, people are assuming LMG only reacted because of the video, but in reality they were already trying to sort it out internally.

 

This is where his long format videos fails. They are good for deep dives. education, etc...but if you are going at it without any forethought and are just lumping anything and everything together, then it's not being journalistic IMHO.