Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[dynastes]

43 minutes ago, CaptBananaPants said:

LTT monetized their apology video and included the usual links to the store and products....

 

The video was such a good step but god damnit the stupidity still rears its head. It's so tone deaf.  

Kinda, yeah ... and after they joked about including sponsored clips. One might have assumed that this might be an indicator of them understanding that they should not monetize whatsoever.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, dragonuck76 said:

Now it is time to allow them to correct things, get new processes in place, to open things, and be who they are and who we ant them to be.  So to continue calling out LMG and LTT etc, is only done by those who want the drama and love it... and that is poor

 

I think this is the best right now. Everyone has had their say on the matter one way, or another, all we are doing is going in circles and keeping the drama going. They made a video, apologized and are working on turning things around hopefully for the better. Now i think it's time to let them work things out.

 

I do think GN does a great service and I really have no issues with him calling out Linus/LMG...I do think it was necessary to right the ship and get through to Linus. Even though this is what his own employees, including his wife have been telling him for years now. Personally I don't think Linus is trying to be a bad/terrible person, no where near the Artisan builds CEO, but he may have lost sight of the bigger picture and needed this to re-focus.

 

Overall I do like GN, but I have to admit that I find many of his videos to be overly negative as of late and TBH it's gets tiring. In all fairness this whole thing really started because of the wording a labs employee said during a tour. While not very tactful and/or framed properly there really wasn't any malicious intent. I do feel that GN took offence to it and kinda made it like an "Oh ya, let me point out your faults" type situation...at least that's how I see it. I am not saying this to defend Linus/LMG I think he needed this, but to me there is a slight element of childishness in this situation from GN. I do miss the GN of old a little with a very down to earth Steve who isn't always trying to go out and fight, fight fight. While admirable, constant negativity is draining and over time can be a turn off for many people.

[Ottoman420]

1 hour ago, Vexenar said:

Both are bad, but when a prototype costs 2000$ and a company asks 800$ for the finished product people are going to naturally ask questions about why the price of the finished product is still so high.

So in that sense, LMG releasing the prototype cost will damage Billit Labs because people are going to wonder if it's worth that price. 
Naturally we are talking about something akin to custom watercooling which is in the space of enthusiasts, but still. 

Its pretty normal for a prototype to cost a lot lot more than the product which goes on sale...The prototype costs so much because of all the machining and r & d and change this change that. It is litteraly training the rest of the manufacture process so it will always cost x ammount times the rrp.

[dragonuck76]

8 minutes ago, Spec7re said:

 

I think this is the best right now. Everyone has had their say on the matter one way, or another, all we are doing is going in circles and keeping the drama going. They made a video, apologized and are working on turning things around hopefully for the better. Now i think it's time to let them work things out hope for the better.

 

I do think GN does a great service and I really have no issue with him calling out Linus/LMG...I do think it was necessary to right the ship and get through to Linus what his own employees and even his wife have been telling him for years now. Personally I don't think Linus is trying to be a bad/terrible person, no where near the Artisan builds CEO, but he may have lost sight of the bigger picture and needed this to re-focus.

 

Overall I do like GN, but I have to admit that I do tend to find many of his videos overly negative as of late and TBH it gets tiring after a while. In all fairness this whole thing really started because of the wording a labs employee said during a tour. While not very tactful and/or framed properly I there really wasn't any malicious intent. I do feel that GN took offence to it and kinda made it like an "Oh ya, let me point out your faults" type situation...at least that's how I see it. I am not saying this to defend Linus/LMG I think he needed this, but to me there is a slight element of childishness in this situation from GN. I do miss the GN of old a little with the very down to earth Steve who isn't always trying to go out and fight, fight fight. While admirable, constant negativity is draining and over time can be a turn off for many people.

Agree, LTT needs to make right, and I do think GN saw the video took offence and water coloured the video as look at the mistakes - while showing Luke worried with Linus comments, and the video of them talking about needing to slow down... all good points, but it appear as an attempt to devide and knock them down- but again that is how it appears and I feel that is the reason, especially now we know more about Billet Labs... not good, but not with ill meaning...  again all these constant posts calling out Linus etc, and abuse needs to stop now

[Potatoes2241]

15 minutes ago, dynastes said:

Kinda, yeah ... and after they joked about including sponsored clips. One might have assumed that this might be an indicator of them understanding that they should not monetize whatsoever.

Can someone explain how exactly them monetizing that video makes it less sincere? They've committed to change and they accepted the responsibility, monetization on the video has nothing to do with the subject. Maybe they should turn off the monetization on all content they make to show how sorry they are? At this point it sounds like the community just seeks stuff to be insulted about and the actual subject of this ordeal no longer bothers anyone. And guess what - the actual subject is not something that can be fixed in 2 hours.

[MrSuperb]

Quote

Can someone explain how exactly them monetizing that video makes it less sincere? 

It's all about GN telling his beloved audience in the first (!) video, that it won't be monetised.

[Godiwa]

4 minutes ago, MrSuperb said:

It's all about GN telling his beloved audience in the first (!) video, that it won't be monetised.

the second video wasn't a "ltt video" it was a regular news video... but I guess you ignored that... and they pretty much skimmed over the LTT stuff fast and moved on to other content so they just treated it like short news

[SignatureSigner]

33 minutes ago, TheRepoGuy said:

Linus, I hope you read this comment. I do not think you understand the gravity of the situation you are in. Going by this reddit post, you have already lost 5k floatplane subs, which totals to about $300,000 revenue per year. If that post is true and your interest rate payments are $1.5 m then you have effectively lost 20% revenue going forward.

 

Going by comments again supposedly finances are tight at LTT. This means if your video output decreases you will lose even more revenue. The thing is, higher quality videos are what your viewers want. But it's clear the output you have at the moment is not conducive to quality. But your business RELIES on views to make money (and merch sales etc.).

 

Your life (and your employees lives) could actually be harmed very badly due to this video. Why?

 

Because if your revenue disappears, you can't pay for your bills. At the same time you can't hire more people to make higher quality videos because that will cost you heaps in salary. On top of that you can't fire people to save money because you need to keep churning out videos of higher quality. Yet you and your team have knee-jerked and said that you'll focus on taking more time on your videos (from your silly half-baked apology video). So you've already put it out there that you will slow down. But you're already bleeding floatplane subs and Youtube subs. 

 

It's clear to me no one in your business knows what they are doing, not even you. It's clear to me everyone you've hired have been under-qualified for their roles. It's clear to me your ego blinded you and made you behave like a silly child going by your first reply to the GamersNexus video. Your apology video also came way too quickly. I don't know who wrote the script for it, but it sucked. The jokes were stupid, the sex jokes were stupid, the product plugs were shameful. People with less experience than your team could write a better script. It's horrendous you monetised that video. But with how poor your cashflow must be, it isn't surprising.

 

Despite thinking that GamersNexus did the right thing, I'm actually worried for your future now. I don't think you understand the gravity of what you've done, and this hasn't happened over one week, it's happened over 1.5 - 2 years. You've expanded way too fast, you did not plan correctly, I bet you didn't even consider the fact interest rates can go up. You've been spending money willy nilly like a fool. It's clear to me you've just become blinded by money. Money has corrupted you. Your mansion and Porsche are silly wastes of money. You thought the money would roll in no matter what. You literally have people out there, some possibly living paycheck-to-paycheck GIVING YOU MONEY by subscribing to floatplane, and the way you spend that money is on a MANSION AND PORSCHE? SERIOUSLY?

 

As I said, you may have effectively destroyed not just your own life but the lives of your employees. Your ego and pride has got in the way of everything. As one human being to another (even despite your character flaws) I hope you get your finances sorted quick. I would suggest contacting the VC firm and selling LMG before they catch wind of what's happening now. I hope you bought your house with cash. Despite what Gordon Gecko says, greed is NOT good.

 

If you are not running around sh*tting your pants trying to fix things, you aren't doing enough.

Linus has publicly stated that he can retire at any time, if he wants to leave all he has to do is sell the company and dip to a private island.

 

money, at least for him is not of concern

[MrSuperb]

4 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

the second video wasn't a "ltt video" it was a regular news video... but I guess you ignored that... and they pretty much skimmed over the LTT stuff fast and moved on to other content so they just treated it like short news

You are missing the point. Also was it really not?

 

Average GN videos make 200-300k view

The video after the drama is at 1.9 Million i.e. almost 10x as much.

[MrSuperb]

Quote

Linus has publicly stated that he can retire at any time, if he wants to leave all he has to do is sell the company and dip to a private island.

 

 I am pretty sure by now, that Linus will at least temporarily leave LMG.

[Godiwa]

4 minutes ago, MrSuperb said:

You are missing the point. Also was it really not?

 

Average GN videos make 200-300k view

The video after the drama is at 1.9 Million i.e. almost 10x as much.

as I said... it is a regular news video... just like any other video... what you focus on is the thumbnail... everyone makes catchy thumbnails... whining about that is just pathetic...

[Guarana]

in the end, the GN drama was nothing near the shitstorm that came after. 

[Potatoes2241]

1 minute ago, MrSuperb said:

It's all about GN telling his beloved audience in the first (!) video, that it won't be monetised.

Like I said some time ago, it really made sense for GN to disable the monetization on his video, that is true, because this video would generate tons of hype and the influx of attention. Monetizing it would make it into a honeypot, so to avoid being called out as earning cash on drama they have disabled it (but still benefited from drama in other ways). LTT on the other hand was making a video in response to drama and they received negative feedback on it anyway (because drama and haters), so disabling monetization or avoiding sponsor jokes would not make it more credible. It would just make one less reason for people to be mad about. But I doubt that it would change anything because then people would be mad at LTT staff not being sad enough, having colorful backgrounds, not hitting Linus in the face etc etc.

 

So in short GN had to add more credibility by demonetizing, LTT had no reasons to do so and people mad about it just want blood.

[Godiwa]

1 minute ago, Guarana said:

in the end, the GN drama was nothing near the shitstorm that came after. 

exactly, they just slapped the evidence on the table and said "you can do better"... then came a bad response and things exploded...

[Potatoes2241]

10 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

as I said... it is a regular news video... just like any other video... what you focus on is the thumbnail... everyone makes catchy thumbnails... whining about that is just pathetic...

Mate the segment about LTT drama literally takes up a half of this video and it was filmed separately from the other segment just to add to drama FAST. Try harder.
 

And unlike his first video Steve made an asshole of himself with this nerd rage condescending tone, either purposefully for added hype or because he's not a golden standard of classy journalism he wants everyone to believe. Oh, and it's also monetized

[ImpliedSilence]

1 hour ago, Awsmkiid13 said:

Fair point, he maybe did, but again, Fuck steve and GN, a nice save for a dying channel not doing so good. 

Dying channel?....Not doing so good?

[Needfuldoer]

36 minutes ago, dragonuck76 said:

Agree, LTT needs to make right, and I do think GN saw the video took offence and water coloured the video as look at the mistakes - while showing Luke worried with Linus comments, and the video of them talking about needing to slow down... all good points, but it appear as an attempt to devide and knock them down- but again that is how it appears and I feel that is the reason, especially now we know more about Billet Labs... not good, but not with ill meaning...  again all these constant posts calling out Linus etc, and abuse needs to stop now

Honestly, I think Steve's video said exactly what Linus needed to hear. "Dude. Stop. You can't keep apologizing and promising to do better without actually doing better. Listen to your community."

 

Linus didn't seem to be taking process criticism seriously, maybe because their membership numbers, engagement, and watch count were never seriously affected by the mistakes they were making. Negative feedback about the problems in their released content could be safely set "out of sight out of mind" because everything was "fine".

 

(Everything was not fine.)

 

I think Linus's attitude (at the time) about the Billet Labs water block was a bigger problem than its sale at LTX. (Selling it was an egregious mistake and shows they still have problems with logistics and asset tracking, but I don't believe there was malicious intent.) Testing it with the wrong card, then refusing to re-test it properly "because it's $800 and nobody's going to buy it", then doubling down on WAN Show, was as negligent as it was arrogant.

 

Little of the content in Steve's initial video was new information. Most of it is what the community has been saying for months, if not years. Even people internal to LMG/CW/YUC were saying it. "Slow down, stop rushing to feed the algorithm content full of mistakes." But it took someone with Steve's reach (and frankly, respect from Linus without being his spouse or employee) triggering a community drama feeding frenzy, for those numbers to change and for Linus to finally, genuinely admit he's been wrong and take this criticism seriously.

 

To be clear, I don't think Linus is a bad person. I just think he flew too close to the sun.

 

I hope they do a WAN Show this week, where they can have a "real talk" with the leadership team (at least the ones who appeared in the apology video) to discuss what they've been mulling this week. 

[artkingjw]

Hi all, I haven't seen this posted yet, but Tech Deals had a live stream with relevant discussion. I'm still very early in the VOD, but one of the ideas raised was having an Editor in Chief (they also cite Dr Cutress for this idea)... Seems like a very balanced and informative discussion so far. 
 

EDIT: I did a search for 'tech deals' - didn't flag anything, but apologies if i missed it, this thread is LONG. 

EDIT2: I'm much further into the VOD now, and wow this is good. In a, very level-head, wise uncle sort of way. I don't think he has all of the info, but he seems to know enough to have useful opinions. A shame that it just won't be as popular because it doesn't promote outrage in the way that GN, LMG, many others tend to. 
 

 

[dynastes]

37 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

Can someone explain how exactly them monetizing that video makes it less sincere? They've committed to change and they accepted the responsibility, monetization on the video has nothing to do with the subject. Maybe they should turn off the monetization on all content they make to show how sorry they are? At this point it sounds like the community just seeks stuff to be insulted about and the actual subject of this ordeal no longer bothers anyone. And guess what - the actual subject is not something that can be fixed in 2 hours.

Well, it is an apology video, isn't it? Do people come to you to apologize, but before they do they offer you the opportunity to buy something off them? The principle would not be all that different.

 

Again, they obviously understood that they should not include sponsorships in the video, although they were, according to Yvonne, offered one. Also, members of their team along with the community urged them to turn exclude the video from monetization, so obviously they understood that even better. Isn't the real question therefore: Why don't you, too? ^_^

 

It's not about any relation to the subject itself although there absolutely is some. Namely it is just *not ethical* to monetize and apology. And since this whole thing started, because they were acting unethically as well as not delivering on quality, it is only natural that such demonetization is expected.

 

Yes, the *actual* issue cannot be fixed in two hours. But you can very quickly show that you are serious about fixing it, by not making related mistakes immediately again, especially when they are easily avoided

[Potatoes2241]

13 minutes ago, dynastes said:

Well, it is an apology video, isn't it? Do people come to you to apologize, but before they do they offer you the opportunity to buy something off them? The principle would not be all that different.

 

Again, they obviously understood that they should not include sponsorships in the video, although they were, according to Yvonne, offered one. Also, members of their team along with the community urged them to turn exclude the video from monetization, so obviously they understood that even better. Isn't the real question therefore: Why don't you, too? ^_^

 

It's not about any relation to the subject itself (although there absolutely is some). It is just *not ethical* to monetize and apology. And since this whole thing started, because they were acting unethically as well as not delivering on quality, it is only natural that such demonetization is expected.

 

Yes, the *actual* issue cannot be fixed in two hours. But you can very quickly show that you are serious about fixing it, by not making related mistakes immediately again, especially when they are easily avoided

The issue with ethical stuff during a drama episode is that people would still find something to be mad about, because this thing is 100% subjective. For example, I support the initial statement from GN because it was objectively true and right, but the monetization on the response video did not bother me at all. Yet, it bothered some other people.

 

Unlike the factual stuff laid out in the beginning we are now operating with emotions and emotions are currently hot, so whetever they do some people will get insulted one way or another. What we have to expect now is addressing the quality assurance issues, solving the bungle with Billet and performing the investigation on Madisson's claims - those are the original issues. Everything else, while I am not flat out invalidating people's emotions, is just plain drama. And drama is counterproductive and lame. Nonconstructive drama will damage the company in terms of reputation losses, staff morale and motivation and everyone will lose at the end. Including us, the humble content consumers.

 

Edit: by the way, we should not treat LTT response as just "Apology video". They are responding to GN's claims, setting a path for them in the future, sharing their plans on how they will solve the situation. Linus did apologize for a rushed bum reply, but just an apology would not make any difference for the subject at hand, it's not like the only issue they are trying to solve is people being livid on a forum.

[Blademaster91]

28 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

ate the segment about LTT drama literally takes up a half of this video and it was filmed separately from the other segment just to add to drama FAST. Try harder.
 

And unlike his first video Steve made an asshole of himself with this nerd rage condescending tone, either purposefully for added hype or because he's not a golden standard of classy journalism he wants everyone to believe. Oh, and it's also monetized

The segment of Steve discussing it further in a HW news video is because he didn't likely didn't want to talk about it anymore which is understandable given the response to his video, the whole non-apology from LTT/LMG shows while LTT says they plan to do better,  but the apology doesn't feel genuine when they monetized the video, still joking about sponsorships and plugged for the LTT merch store. IMO the jokes and sponsorships isn't appropriate for what should've been a serious address to the community, and the apology would've felt more genuine if they would have acted more seriously in the video. 

Also LTT/LMG knows they can edit the video while it is still up, and can respond by taking the jokes and ads out of the video, but didn't because they know they can get fans on their side with funny jokes and sponsor spots.

[Cadence IT]

Lets be real for second, if GN contacted LMG privately what would happen?
Most likely it would go as follow, they chat about mistakes, and Linus would try to defend him self, what is normal human response. But i work in IT as IT support, and head of my department, over the years what i have learned is, once you try to defend you are automatically looking it from wrong vector, ad way to approach it is accept that you are in wrong, and how you will fix existing issue, because, client in this case audience only care about finished product, no one really care how you got there, if you got good content made in 10 minits or 10 hours, all that matter is what is end result. Like if my client have problem, he will not care why i did it later, only thing is important is result.
 

What i think would be result in that sorting privately it, would be Linus responds with we need time to fix it, he would most defiantly not hold all production and would not go on fixing. he would double down on fact he needs time, and you can see that in his responses.

 

As for Billet Labs, it was defiantly interesting case, and in there i would say its not just Linus, some like 5% needs to go to Billet aswell, since at beginning as we can see from mails, it was agreed at beginning that block stay with LMG, and only after review they asked it back, so spinning it like it was there best prototype and there job is halted is wrong, since from the start idea was it wont come back anyway. Altho what was agreed on 3090 that was apperantly sent with block i have no idea what was purpose of that, if stay in LMG or go back to Bellit.

[Potatoes2241]

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The segment of Steve discussing it further in a HW news video is because he didn't likely didn't want to talk about it anymore which is understandable given the response to his video, the whole non-apology from LTT/LMG shows while LTT says they plan to do better,  but the apology doesn't feel genuine when they monetized the video, still joking about sponsorships and plugged for the LTT merch store. IMO the jokes and sponsorships isn't appropriate for what should've been a serious address to the community, and the apology would've felt more genuine if they would have acted more seriously in the video. 

Also LTT/LMG knows they can edit the video while it is still up, and can respond by taking the jokes and ads out of the video, but didn't because they know they can get fans on their side with funny jokes and sponsor spots.

As far as I remember there was no video from LTT when GN posted his news video, he just reacted to a forum post made by Linus within hours of posting. If you want to be nitpicky I'd say that it was not too professional of him accusing LTT of a "DiSsApOiNtInG" reaction in such an abrasive manner when there was no proper official response from the company, apart from a panicked rushed post by Linus.

 

And for the whole monetization coolstory, again, we are looking for reasons to be mad. It matters not and disabling it would solve nothing absolutely.

[dragonuck76]

24 minutes ago, dynastes said:

Well, it is an apology video, isn't it? Do people come to you to apologize, but before they do they offer you the opportunity to buy something off them? The principle would not be all that different.

 

Again, they obviously understood that they should not include sponsorships in the video, although they were, according to Yvonne, offered one. Also, members of their team along with the community urged them to turn exclude the video from monetization, so obviously they understood that even better. Isn't the real question therefore: Why don't you, too? ^_^

 

It's not about any relation to the subject itself although there absolutely is some. Namely it is just *not ethical* to monetize and apology. And since this whole thing started, because they were acting unethically as well as not delivering on quality, it is only natural that such demonetization is expected.

 

Yes, the *actual* issue cannot be fixed in two hours. But you can very quickly show that you are serious about fixing it, by not making related mistakes immediately again, especially when they are easily avoided

STOP. 

[dragonuck76]

will you all give it a rest...enough now... find something else to moan about