Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Shlouski]

37 minutes ago, TheRepoGuy said:

Linus, I hope you read this comment. I do not think you understand the gravity of the situation you are in. Going by this reddit post, you have already lost 5k floatplane subs, which totals to about $300,000 revenue per year. If that post is true and your interest rate payments are $1.5 m then you have effectively lost 20% revenue going forward.

 

Going by comments again supposedly finances are tight at LTT. This means if your video output decreases you will lose even more revenue. The thing is, higher quality videos are what your viewers want. But it's clear the output you have at the moment is not conducive to quality. But your business RELIES on views to make money (and merch sales etc.).

 

Many people who are subbed to floatplane likely already know most of the issues raised by GN, Linus has been upfront about them IMO, and often talks about them on the WAN show.

 

Now I'm NOT condoning Linus actions, but I can understand why he got upset and spoke up, just like so many upset people rushed to voice their opinions here. He's only human for gods sake, I imagine if any other us had are character assassinated in front of millions of people we might also feel a bit piss off, irrespective of whether you think it's justified or not. 

 

FACT:

Words GN used to describe Linus: incompetent, misleading, unethical, irresponsible, unhinged, and had little to nothing good to say about him.

 

Opinion:

I think Linus is a good guy who has tried to be open and honest, but Linus also makes mistakes and speaks his mind before he's really had the chance to process things, which we are all guilty of at times.

 

Taking into account the two statements above I do believe "character assassinated" is a fair description, and I can understand how this would be hurtful to someone who believed they were do the right thing, or at least was not trying to be malicious.

 

By the way some people described him you would have thought he had committed genocide, now I'm NOT down playing any concerns, I just think reasonable and appropriate measures should be taken, trying to sabotage the business isn't it. 

 

I think it is short sighted and unreasonable response to start unsubbing from floatplane, why do I feel this way?

 

Well for starters the people most likely to get hurt by doing this are his employees, it's even possible that future job opening have already been affected, and this in turn could impact current employees chances to get promotions, raises and the opportunity to move up in the company. In fact the person least impacted by this is Linus and his family, make no mistake they are set for life. 

 

[eskimododo]

3 hours ago, aaradorn said:

Not needed, but removing the keyboard from linus's PC when drama hits is definitely preferred

Probably should take away all the gadgets lock Linus in that anechoic chamber would be better. Linus would gaslight from a toaster if he can gets his hands on one.

[BowlOfPorridge]

This is all so very hilarious. Given that this thread is about Gamer's Nexus and not the former employee and claims of harassment, let's focus on that. I'm no huge fan of this channel or some of the people who appear on it but that's a personal opinion, based on nothing more than what I see on camera and for the vast majority of people that is the case. You don't know them, you only know from what you see in videos. As for the water block nonsense; the email they put on screen from the company says "we originally said you could keep it...." they had no expectation it would be returned so their cries ring hollow. No, LTT shouldn't have auctioned it off, big mistake, so sorry, and LTT said they would pay for it, now please wind your neck in.

 

As for not blurring the cost of said piece of metal.... that's their assumed value of the thing, not it's actual value and who the hell cares how much they think it's worth? It's all assumptions and non of this is damaging to that company that only has 2 actual products for sale on it's website. As for the Nexus dude and his whining about inaccurate graphs? Who cares? Seriously.... who is laying awake at night sweating this nonsense? A bad FPS reading? If you don't know that a 4090 is better than a 4070 (the clue is in the numbers) then maybe you should stay away from buying or building computers altogether, and maybe, crossing the street without adult supervision. The numbers don't matter because your own experience is never going to match another's experience because of the myriad of factors that affect performance. If you plug a 4090 into your machine and you're getting 10fps in Minecraft you probably did something stupid or the card is broken, so RMA and move on. You don't need a YouTuber to answer that question.  All you really need to know is will it burn your house down, which it won't because NVIDIA and AMD test these things way more than some random hacks with their self-declared expertise.

 

YouTubers are entertainment, not reliable sources of technical information. Nexus is gunning for views just like everybody else and this time it worked, give it a week and their views will sink to their norm (10% of subs) but, as with the water block dudes, it all rings hollow, self-righteous preaching about who has the more inaccurate numbers dressed up as concern for a non-existent "community" 

 

So many people are getting played by this jibber jabber and they don't even know it. The Verge has jumped in making it their top story to rake in the clicks and comments.... the grift never stops.

[johnno23]

well everytime I thought I could post more posts were posted so I simply kept on reading.

Anyways my thoughts are simple....

I have always used a few sites for info.

LTT has been my go to source for info and the quirky humour which I have always and to this day do enjoy.

I also like LTT as his user base has made him a person that can get into closed doors and offer insight with some of his more informative vids like visiting intel talking to AMD getting such early hands on with the SteamDeck etc.

However for in depth reviews on items I am interested in buying I have always leaned towards GN and Level one Tech.

I think the labs idea is interesting but even here in the LTT forums there are often posts related to mistakes and misinformation. Not an issue if it is looked at and notes were taken.

From the GN perspective I have no comments about right or wrong bias or complaint but the one single area I do wholeheartedly agree is that 

LTT is more than a simple influencer.........Linus can with a review make or break a smaller company looking for exposure to their work and products.

For this reason alone then in capitals when if the labs publish results or a Review GET IT RIGHT-DOUBLE CHECK if in doubt do not upload as the audience is so great it can have a market impact.

 

[ProbablyNotFidel]

10 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The segment of Steve discussing it further in a HW news video is because he didn't likely didn't want to talk about it anymore which is understandable given the response to his video, the whole non-apology from LTT/LMG shows while LTT says they plan to do better,  but the apology doesn't feel genuine when they monetized the video, still joking about sponsorships and plugged for the LTT merch store. IMO the jokes and sponsorships isn't appropriate for what should've been a serious address to the community, and the apology would've felt more genuine if they would have acted more seriously in the video. 

Also LTT/LMG knows they can edit the video while it is still up, and can respond by taking the jokes and ads out of the video, but didn't because they know they can get fans on their side with funny jokes and sponsor spots.

See, I just don't get that view. How does the monitization make it feel disingenuous? I mean, I get why they took it off, obviously there was enough uproar. But I think for me it just doesn't take away from what's being laid out in the video. Similarly, how does adding levity to the video deminish what is being said, what is being committed to, and what they're laying out for us to scrutinize in the coming days/weeks/months? I think it just seems like the wrong takeaway from it when there is actual substance in their commitments moving forward. 

 

(I know I responded to you once before on this subject. I'm not trying to single you out. You just seem level-headed enough to have this discourse.) 

 

 

[Booch121]

15 hours ago, 3m3m said:

 

Now you tell me why GN really did this? Their channel is not doing well. They actually needed the cloud. The true story is literally staring you in the face.

YouTube Analytical History for Gamers Nexus

 

There you have the true story of why GN didn't want to give LTT a snowball's chance in hell.

uhhhh, there channel has been perfectly fine for years now.  Subscribers gained does not equal how much money you make per video, and obviously they have done fine for a long time before this. Not to mention the fact that the video they posted isn't even monetized, and they are refusing to make any more videos replying to LTT.

[dynastes]

24 minutes ago, dragonuck76 said:

STOP. 

WHY?

 

38 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

The issue with ethical stuff during a drama episode is that people would still find something to be mad about, because this thing is 100% subjective. For example, I support the initial statement from GN because it was objectively true and right, but the monetization on the response video did not bother me at all. Yet, it bothered some other people.

You are right, ethics are subjective. It did not bother you, it did bother others. Those people can criticize it. At the end of the day it is not a big deal. You asked for explanation though.

38 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

Unlike the factual stuff laid out in the beginning we are now operating with emotions and emotions are currently hot, so whetever they do some people will get insulted one way or another. What we have to expect now is addressing the quality assurance issues, solving the bungle with Billet and performing the investigation on Madisson's claims - those are the original issues.

I don't think that anyone is disputing that. It is just that in the light of those issues, some people do not want their views to be monetized when they just want to be apologized to. Whether that is the majority of people, I cannot say. But since there will hardly be people who specifically want advertisements on a video like this, you might as well leave them off.

38 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

Everything else, while I am not flat out invalidating people's emotions, is just plain drama. And drama is counterproductive and lame. Nonconstructive drama will damage the company in terms of reputation losses, staff morale and motivation and everyone will lose at the end. Including us, the humble content consumers.

Yes, I agree. But especially in an environment that is heated up by recent events and therefore relatively unstable, every measure should be taken to stabilize. That is why it is a good idea to respect people's emotions. As I said,  some people will have issues with monetization on this video, others won't, but hardly anyone will be outright *for* monetizing it. So just leave it of, go the extra mile there, everything fine.

38 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

Edit: by the way, we should not treat LTT response as just "Apology video". They are responding to GN's claims, setting a path for them in the future, sharing their plans on how they will solve the situation. Linus did apologize for a rushed bum reply, but just an apology would not make any difference for the subject at hand, it's not like the only issue they are trying to solve is people being livid on a forum.

Yes, I agree.

 

 

  

8 minutes ago, BowlOfPorridge said:

As for not blurring the cost of said piece of metal.... that's their assumed value of the thing, not it's actual value and who the hell cares how much they think it's worth? It's all assumptions and non of this is damaging to that company that only has 2 actual products for sale on it's website. As for the Nexus dude and his whining about inaccurate graphs? Who cares? Seriously.... who is laying awake at night sweating this nonsense? A bad FPS reading? If you don't know that a 4090 is better than a 4070 (the clue is in the numbers) then maybe you should stay away from buying or building computers altogether, and maybe, crossing the street without adult supervision. The numbers don't matter because your own experience is never going to match another's experience because of the myriad of factors that affect performance [...]

I am sorry, but you are talking obvious nonsense and engage in whataboutisms. The issue was about LMG advertising their future to be in state-of-the-art reviews with an amazing amount of data points applied to evaluate every product to the last degree. Inaccurate graphs  and publicized data directly contradicts that aim and provide the user with potentially faulty advice regarding future purchases.

 

How well-versed you are in computer hardware or what your ultimate experience will be does not matter there in the slightest. Try and don't use bogus arguments. 

[BowlOfPorridge]

Just now, ProbablyNotFidel said:

See, I just don't get that view. How does the monitization make it feel disingenuous? I mean, I get why they took it off, obviously there was enough uproar. But I think for me it just doesn't take away from what's being laid out in the video. Similarly, how does adding levity to the video deminish what is being said, what is being committed to, and what they're laying out for us to scrutinize in the coming days/weeks/months? I think it just seems like the wrong takeaway from it when there is actual substance in their commitments moving forward. 

I feel sure there is a sociological reason for it.... perception of doing something wrong, micro-analyse everything afterward for signs of insincerity, further, errors etc.... it's just a pile on, nothing more, nothing less.

[SuperGnu]

16 hours ago, andreimj said:

Who the hell puts protective film on their mouse pads and doesn't instruct it's users to take them off. It's absurd. I think I bought more than 20 mouses in my life and never have I ever had to peel protective film from the mouse before use

All my mouses the last 10 years have had protective film on the underside. But i do not buy 5 dollar mouses either.

[Loopers]

6 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Unless there is proof this was done for views this is people taking sides.

Didn't say it was for views. I said he went in unprepared (half-cocked) and not the "journalistic" standard I'm used to seeing from Steve willing to choose being lazy over seeking facts if you're going to use a large platform to "report" on anyone. Doesn't matter if it's LMG or J2C.

 

6 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

What benefit to both sides would there be to a scripted interview or a WAN show call between LTT and GN?

That's your problem in this instance. You presume some form of preferential treatment with a scripted interview. Steve refused to interview Newegg unless cameras were allowed inside for transparency. If you trust Steve so much, you should trust the process of which he gave the same benefit of the doubt to others he's reported

 

6 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I don't see any drama in this except for the people wanting to nitpick at how GN brought up these issues instead of focusing on the points GN made

This statement demonstrates you lack objectivity and your bias is shown because of what you don't see as you see it as "good enough." Would you not agree it's fair to expect someone we can both say we have respect for to report accurately and properly or don't do it at all? Stick with reviewing. He or any other creator cannot sit back and critique another about their lackluster videos and effort while doing the same himself when he's a reviewer, not a hard hitting journalist. 

[SuperGnu]

15 hours ago, MrSuperb said:

And nobody forced Billet to got to the big bad corporate YouTube company.

They could have gone with perfect „small“ creator like GN, but they didn’t.

And we all know why. This was always a business transaction.

 

You are right, no company should ever use LMG for showcasing products as they will just lose/sell your stuff anyway after shitting all over it because they are too stupid to read instructions.

Right?

[Potatoes2241]

@dynastes you're cool, peace mate

[dragonuck76]

1 minute ago, SuperGnu said:

 

You are right, no company should ever use LMG for showcasing products as they will just lose/sell your stuff anyway after shitting all over it because they are too stupid to read instructions.

Right?

Your so wrong.  LMG already explained what happen with the cooler, and that disproves this was done in poor taste.  Both sides made mistakes in communication.  Thats it. 

[SuperGnu]

Just now, dragonuck76 said:

Your so wrong.  LMG already explained what happen with the cooler, and that disproves this was done in poor taste.  Both sides made mistakes in communication.  Thats it. 

Reading the quote i was responding to was too hard for you?

[Guest]

@dynastes

 

It is over.

This is the part where you learn to be an adult

and let things go.

No one likes to repeat themselves

least of all

me.

 

it is over. 276 pages leave very little for the imagination.

have a nice life.

 

 

[Loopers]

5 hours ago, Why_Me said:

Good ... this should motivate the reviewers to give accurate reviews.

By fearing someone with an axe to grind reporting without all the facts? Even accusers\victims have a right to speak in court because it's important to hear both sides. Steve chose to do the thing he accused LMG of being (Lazy) and went public without doing his best to seek the answers required for accurate reporting. I believe LMG, GN or even J2C severing ties with Asus is important for reasons of integrity and to keep things honest. 

 

Steve in this case did an ok job at first but we later learned he went in without all the facts making his reporting inaccurate and lazy. He's just as much a hypocrite as LMG and lacks the ethics he also accused LMG of lacking when it comes to doing what was right when reporting something as serious as this.

[Shlouski]

17 minutes ago, SuperGnu said:

All my mouses the last 10 years have had protective film on the underside. But i do not buy 5 dollar mouses either.

 

Strange, I can't remember having any mice with film on the underside in my 30 years, I've had tens of mice over the years so it's possible some may have had and I can't remember, and I'm not checking them all.

 

Non of my steelseries 

 

Non of my razer's

 

Non of my logitech's

 

 

 

I've never had one, but I have seen mice with full plastic on the bottom, but I can't remember seeing plastic only on the feet before now.

[dragonuck76]

20 minutes ago, BowlOfPorridge said:

This is all so very hilarious. Given that this thread is about Gamer's Nexus and not the former employee and claims of harassment, let's focus on that. I'm no huge fan of this channel or some of the people who appear on it but that's a personal opinion, based on nothing more than what I see on camera and for the vast majority of people that is the case. You don't know them, you only know from what you see in videos. As for the water block nonsense; the email they put on screen from the company says "we originally said you could keep it...." they had no expectation it would be returned so their cries ring hollow. No, LTT shouldn't have auctioned it off, big mistake, so sorry, and LTT said they would pay for it, now please wind your neck in.

 

As for not blurring the cost of said piece of metal.... that's their assumed value of the thing, not it's actual value and who the hell cares how much they think it's worth? It's all assumptions and non of this is damaging to that company that only has 2 actual products for sale on it's website. As for the Nexus dude and his whining about inaccurate graphs? Who cares? Seriously.... who is laying awake at night sweating this nonsense? A bad FPS reading? If you don't know that a 4090 is better than a 4070 (the clue is in the numbers) then maybe you should stay away from buying or building computers altogether, and maybe, crossing the street without adult supervision. The numbers don't matter because your own experience is never going to match another's experience because of the myriad of factors that affect performance. If you plug a 4090 into your machine and you're getting 10fps in Minecraft you probably did something stupid or the card is broken, so RMA and move on. You don't need a YouTuber to answer that question.  All you really need to know is will it burn your house down, which it won't because NVIDIA and AMD test these things way more than some random hacks with their self-declared expertise.

 

YouTubers are entertainment, not reliable sources of technical information. Nexus is gunning for views just like everybody else and this time it worked, give it a week and their views will sink to their norm (10% of subs) but, as with the water block dudes, it all rings hollow, self-righteous preaching about who has the more inaccurate numbers dressed up as concern for a non-existent "community" 

 

So many people are getting played by this jibber jabber and they don't even know it. The Verge has jumped in making it their top story to rake in the clicks and comments.... the grift never stops.

STOP on pushing about x-employees, and or Maddison.  That is none of our business.  Do you look at the same for friends family or others who have lost a job in one way or another and quit, NO.  The only reason you and others want to is to push more rubbish which has nothing to do with us.  We do not know fully what went off between any staff who left or why etc.  But to take one person side and make this a point is pathetic and wrong. This type of situation is between LMG and employees including maddison but who by the way left, quit, well over year and half or more.  So there is no point of discussing it.   Other than to pile more rubbish for no reason. 

So again stop with this crap....  may be LMG should take down the site until further notice as they are doing with videos.

[CrabbyDadTech]

On 8/14/2023 at 5:25 PM, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve is your competitor. He is not your media partner. Let's be honest. When you decided to get into the hard benchmarking business, build a lab you were looking to compete in a segment of the tech media marketplace that was being served by other creators. Your own people made a point to say, oh, we are different from Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed because..... It acknowledges that you see them as competition and not "team media" partners. Cut the crap, LMG did a shoddy job and that Steve would say, hey, these guys are doing a shoddy job is not only his right, but his journalistic responsibility to tech consumers. You think Steve doesn't worry about your massive pile of money and industry connections and how it could hurt him and his team in the long run? He had to weigh out the possible retribution, and he did the right thing anyhow. Mad respect for Steve and Gamers Nexus. 

[smirb]

# Originally posted on the apology video thread

 

You know what grinds my gears?

 

When people jump to conclusions before people finish explaining or before a situation is over.

 

in all seriousness though, say whatever you want about the video, but it’s a phase rn and they’ll get over it

 

as for the allegations, yes, they are unjustifiable, but collecting the pieces of the truth needs time. Time that they are currently committed to using as mentioned in their apology.

[dragonuck76]

1 minute ago, CrabbyDadTech said:

Steve is your competitor. He is not your media partner. Let's be honest. When you decided to get into the hard benchmarking business, build a lab you were looking to compete in a segment of the tech media marketplace that was being served by other creators. Your own people made a point to say, oh, we are different from Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed because..... It acknowledges that you see them as competition and not "team media" partners. Cut the crap, LMG did a shoddy job and that Steve would say, hey, these guys are doing a shoddy job is not only his right, but his journalistic responsibility to tech consumers. You think Steve doesn't worry about your massive pile of money and industry connections and how it could hurt him and his team in the long run? He had to weigh out the possible retribution, and he did the right thing anyhow. Mad respect for Steve and Gamers Nexus. 

you are wrong, as anyone who listens to LMG videos willl know, Linus wants all the partners (competitors you claim) as more give us the consumer more options to review to make our choices.  So no, LMG do not see compeition, they see partners, or explain in part to have LTX

[MrSuperb]

26 minutes ago, SuperGnu said:

 

You are right, no company should ever use LMG for showcasing products as they will just lose/sell your stuff anyway after shitting all over it because they are too stupid to read instructions.

Right?

If that would happen often, probably not too many companies would work with them anymore.

So it still seems we make something bigger out of a single incident with Billet, than it probably should be.

 

The test accuracy and Madison situation are different topics. The former has a bad taste, as GN recently invested a lot in testing equipment, which directly competes with LTT Labs. The later shall just be clarified.

 

Right?

[SuperGnu]

1 minute ago, MrSuperb said:

If that would happen often, probably not too many companies would work with them anymore.

So it still seems we make something bigger out of a single incident with Billet, than it probably should be.

 

The test accuracy and Madison situation are different topics. The former has a bad taste, as GN recently invested a lot in testing equipment, which directly competes with LTT Labs. The later shall just be clarified.

 

Right?

That single incident could have ruined LMG if they got sued over it. It is nothing you just glance over and say "opsie!" about.

I never mentioned the tests or Madison. Or equipment as all of that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

[Beerzerker]

10 minutes ago, MrSuperb said:

If that would happen often, probably not too many companies would work with them anymore.

So it still seems we make something bigger out of a single incident with Billet, than it probably should be.

 

The test accuracy and Madison situation are different topics. The former has a bad taste, as GN recently invested a lot in testing equipment, which directly competes with LTT Labs. The later shall just be clarified.

 

Right?

With what I've bolded and italicazed - Correct.

[CrabbyDadTech]

6 minutes ago, dragonuck76 said:

you are wrong, as anyone who listens to LMG videos willl know, Linus wants all the partners (competitors you claim) as more give us the consumer more options to review to make our choices.  So no, LMG do not see compeition, they see partners, or explain in part to have LTX

Respect how you feel, and with no intention of being impolite to you I can only think of one adjective to characterize your take... To me, it's a bit naive. You are probably a good, spirited optimist. I'd say I mostly am in that camp, but I've been around long enough, and have seen enough that I know what I see. LMG wants more of the pie. They want it for them, they want to be a mega media company and if that means squashing a few smaller creators along the way Linus is perfectly fine with that. Publicly he can't say that, but the world of YouTube media is very competitive. Now I'm not saying that is an entirely awful thing, to want to be number one and maintain that lead. That's perfectly fine, but don't act as if someone is doing you a disservice by pointing out that you are doing a shoddy job because of "Team Media" that's just silly... They are competitors. That's a fact.