Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, Loopers said:

That has absolutely nothing to do in response to what I said to you in my recent response. Thank you for confirming you're trolling.

I assumed you were defending your previous point that he should have reached out for comment. 

[Drazil100]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

I don't see that, I think the concern is LMG is going to use their labs so they can sound like a better source of data than anyone else because they're throwing tons of money at a lab and testing equpiment, but not taking the time to make sure the data is as a accurate as possible. If LMG puts up data that isn't accurate people will repeat misinformation then assume other channels like GN is wrong because they don't have a massive testing lab.

I am not saying that he definitely did it because of this. That is my bad for not wording things clearer. All I am saying is that this is something that should be considered when evaluating Steve's criticism of LMG. It has the potential or at least it could be perceived to have the potential to improve his position by calling out the Labs shoddy data.

I am not suggesting that because of this that we shouldn't believe a word he says. All I am saying is that because he and Labs are competing that we should hold his criticisms to a higher degree of scrutiny before believing them.

[Loopers]

Just now, bandainamcofan said:

I assumed you were defending your previous point that he should have reached out for comment. 

You assume a lot and don't slow down to read and comprehend responses. We're done here. 

[Lurker_Letum]

5 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I went through the GN video again, and he didn't, but IMO that still wouldn't have changed anything, I don't think Steve had to be nice about it.

 

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, Loopers said:

You assume a lot and don't slow down to read and comprehend responses. We're done here. 

You've said nothing but opinions and claimed they're facts, there's nothing else to comprehend. Have a lovely day.

[Lurker_Letum]

1 minute ago, Lurker_Letum said:

 

Also of note Steve says that Linus emailed after the video but LMG showed proof that they emailed before the video not after. So GN reporting was incorrect on this. Which reaching out would of fixed.

[starsmine]

3 minutes ago, Lurker_Letum said:

Also of note Steve says that Linus emailed after the video but LMG showed proof that they emailed before the video not after. So GN reporting was incorrect on this. Which reaching out would of fixed.

LMG email before the GN video didnt get sent TO Billet Labs, they say so in their apology video. It got sent, but it was missing the address of the intended recipient and only was sent internally. 

so no, GN's reporting was not incorrect.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

 I don't think Steve had to be nice about it.

No, but we do expect him to act professionally.

 

Contacting anyone at LMG would have resulted in an interview, an opportunity to correct the problem and create goodwill between channels in the tech space.

 

Now you are going to have people that will be terrified to speak, reach out and or tell their stories. This was a net loss for the industry not just LMG and GN. Any small channel that doesn't get it perfectly right has reason to fear GN. How is this a good thing? What GN did was threaten the entire tech industry all channels both big and small to shut up, and not publish their findings for fear of being cancelled. How is this a good thing?

 

If GN wanted to act for the good of the consumer he would have acted for the good of the consumer. He acted for the good of his channel and it worked. His sub count is up, he will profit from it if not already he will in future. So did he do this out of the goodness of his own heart? No. GN both wanted and needed cloud. They needed the next Noah Katz story. So they created one. LTT is in the reformative stage GN knew it he had to act fast so he did. His actions speak volumes don't be fooled.

 

[Lurker_Letum]

3 minutes ago, starsmine said:

LMG email before the GN video didnt get sent TO Billet Labs, they say so in their apology video. It got sent, but it was missing the address of the intended recipient and only was sent internally. 

so no, GN's reporting was not incorrect.

It one hundred percent was lol. LMG sent an email. Because the recipient did not receive an email does not mean one wasn't sent. If I send you a package and you have not received the package does that mean I did not actually send you the package.

 

Another example of why not asking for comment was a mistake. Billet Lab would of gotten things sorted sooner. GN would of gotten more to talk about. And the community would of had a clearer picture. But this video was only partially for the community. The other part of it is that GN needs the subscriber boost and this video is now in there top three viewed videos if I'm not mistaken.

[starsmine]

Just now, Lurker_Letum said:

It one hundred percent was lol. LMG sent an email. Because the recipient did not receive an email does not mean one wasn't sent. If I send you a package and you have not received the package does that mean I did not actually send you the package.

 

Another example of why not asking for comment was a mistake. Billet Lab would of gotten things sorted sooner. GN would of gotten more to talk about. And the community would of had a clearer picture. But this video was only partially for the community. The other part of it is that GN needs the subscriber boost and this video is now in there top three viewed videos if I'm not mistaken.

If you did not even put a single bit of my address on the package, you infact did not send me a package

[Lurker_Letum]

6 minutes ago, starsmine said:

If you did not even put a single bit of my address on the package, you infact did not send me a package

Real world mate. The amount of times I have to follow up with people because they forgot to put my name in the TO or even more commonly the CC box is, I couldn't even count it honestly. Especially during times of high stress. Maaan when a project is coming up and everyone in the office is scrambling to get shit done so many tiny things like that get missed. I don't sweat it as long as the actual activity is being handled. And it's not like I work with dumb absentminded people. I work with engineers. Shit happens.

 

So yes even if an address was not on a package it has been sent and even if a name isn't in the TO or CC an email has been sent. I would even argue the most important people got the email, the logistics department. The ones that actually needed it to send the stuff back.

 

Also to reiterate. If Steve had done his du-diligence and asked for comment. This would be even more of a non-issue.

[Blademaster91]

39 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

To be clear, Steve had a number of options. Let's consider them:

 

1>  Call Linus or anyone in the LTT team and say "Hey look you have inaccuracies on x, y and z"

2> Make a video about it "LTT messed up on x,y and z Title it correctly and pull some views in"

3> Call Linus on the WAN show and go "Hey man while you are on your show maybe address the following" Get some positive cloud.

4> Contact the new CEO and say "We want an interview with you because we want to know what are you going to do about this"

 

Any of the above choices would have made good content, help the industry at large and create goodwill between channels. Everyone is going to be afraid of GN and Everyone is going to do to GN what they did to LTT because GN created the standard for it. How is this going to help anyone?

Any of those options would've been only beneficial to LMG/LTT, a call to LTT in private meant LTT wouldn't have to change anything, I think the video GN made was titled correctly so not sure what you mean there, calling Linus on the WAN show would've mean Linus probably having a discussion but again they wouldn't have to change anything and Linus would have his fans watching to defend him. As for a interview with the CEO, I think that would just result in some scripted interview where GN would only be allowed to ask certain questions and he possibly would've been under legal consequences for talking about anything else after making the video.

 

44 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

What did Steve do? Destroy a friendship, Try to sink a channel by creating and driving the narrative while claiming they are the good guys so that they can mud sling.

I doubt Steve and Linus were on good terms anyway, since GN called LTT out on the "trust me bro" backpack warranty, Linus took that personally and attacked everyone and the audience for it. And trying to sink a channel? LTT is going to be fine, GN on the other hand I think will be hurt more from this because of all the angry LTT fans will defend LMG, while LMG claims to be the good guys with a corporate sounding response.

51 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

In the Noah Katz story, Steve reached out. In the LTT story, Steve didn't reach out and because he was driving the narrative and he was, he justified it. It doesn't matter how you look at it, Steve didn't want to give Linus any chance to correct their mistakes. He wanted a dirty story because he needs the views. Anyone that can access Google knows GN is not doing well. They are not doing badly but they are not doing well. GN needed the cloud they had to be in control of the narrative. That is not Journalism. Is LTT innocent? No. Was GN correct in their actions? No. GN didn't follow proper Journalism practices.

In the Noah Katz story he had to reach out for clarification, that video was an investigative journalistic call out to Artesian Builds, he could've risked getting sued if he didn't get things correct.

The GN video calling out LMG as a company isn't the same at all, the points GN discussed were things all found are open to the public, when its all open to the public its fair to provide constructive critsism on how it can be improved upon.

As for GN not doing well, how do you know GN isn't doing well? Did you ask them, or are you just comparing their channel size to LTT?

Those journalism practices aren't a law, in broadcast TV they might be, I don't know I don't work in the media, the practice of asking first is just a nice thing to do.

55 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

So who is right and who is wrong? LTT did do the following in that they knew they need better leadership. They took the steps. GN needed cloud they took the steps to get it. Now you decide who did it the right way and who did it the wrong way. The biggest takeaway here is don't let people think for you.

LTT knew they needed to improve for years now, they just wanted to put quantity over quality, and didn't announce they were going to do better until someone called them out on it, and I won't believe their claims until I see their content quality improve.

57 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

At the end of the day, GN weaponized cancel culture and aimed it at his friends who he knew intimately and knew exactly where to hit. As I explained above, GN had options. GN had access. Why did GN create this type of narrative? What was their intention? Why did they weaponize cancel culture? Analyze the situation for yourself see how it affected each channel individually and make your own conclusion.

You need to take your own advice and not idolize for LMG, saying GN weaponized cancel culture is nonsense,  GN didn't see LTT/LMG as a friend and may not have been on good enough terms to have access to LMG for the reason I've already stated, dismissing everything and claiming he tried to "cancel" LTT is an excessive claim when GN made the video to hold LTT as a company accountable for their actions.

[Loopers]

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

GN made the video to hold LTT as a company accountable for their actions.

Half-cocked. They went public with a story intentionally without context or all the pertinent facts. This is why so many bitch and complaint about "FAKE NEWS" because of lazy "journalists." If you're going to report, do it properly and do as you preach as he called LMG lazy with their reviews (which I agree with)

 

[Blademaster91]

42 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

No, but we do expect him to act professionally.

 

Contacting anyone at LMG would have resulted in an interview, an opportunity to correct the problem and create goodwill between channels in the tech space.

 

Now you are going to have people that will be terrified to speak, reach out and or tell their stories. This was a net loss for the industry not just LMG and GN. Any small channel that doesn't get it perfectly right has reason to fear GN. How is this a good thing? What GN did was threaten the entire tech industry all channels both big and small to shut up, and not publish their findings for fear of being cancelled. How is this a good thing?

 

If GN wanted to act for the good of the consumer he would have acted for the good of the consumer. He acted for the good of his channel and it worked. His sub count is up, he will profit from it if not already he will in future. So did he do this out of the goodness of his own heart? No. GN both wanted and needed cloud. They needed the next Noah Katz story. So they created one. LTT is in the reformative stage GN knew it he had to act fast so he did. His actions speak volumes don't be fooled.

 

GN did act professionally, and asking for an interview on LMG's terms only would have benefited LMG, which is of course what Linus wants for his company, he wants to have control and doesn't like it when people criticize his company even when its to do better, he took it rather personally with the backpack warranty and he's taking it personally again.

 

I think people are already terrified to speak up and tell their stories, given that LMG is a large company, and has lots of fans to defend them and deny LMG of any wrongdoing.

Even though GN didn't ask, calling out LMG is good for the community because now we can expect LTT/LMG to improve on things, not just saying they care about input from the audience as they've said before when people on the forums point out mistakes.

 

GN did act for the good of the consumer, as consumers we should want LMG to provide detailed accurate info, and if you think GN did it for the clout you're missing the point, the sub count and views are likely only short term, people will forget this issue and still watch LTT content.

I think GN is risking sponsorships that may also sponsor LTT/LMG, and possibly risking long term viewers that also watch LTT content because he called out LTT, I would expect some of those angry viewers to unsub and no longer watch GN's content.

[Loopers]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

only would have benefited LMG, which is of course what Linus wants for his company, he wants to have control

It would have benefited all involved. Are you seeking truth or a side? This isn't about Linus and reaching a company for comment before publication is common practice when reporting a bombshell-style report. This had zero advantage to benefit Linus or LMG except to add genuine context of which is important.

Everyone loves drama, but drama hurts real people and affects lives.

[Blademaster91]

6 minutes ago, Loopers said:

Half-cocked. They went public with a story intentionally without context or all the pertinent facts. This is why so many bitch and complaint about "FAKE NEWS" because of lazy "journalists." If you're going to report, do it properly and do as you preach as he called LMG lazy with their reviews (which I agree with)

 

Unless there is proof this was done for views this is people taking sides. I've said it before I don't see what asking first would have changed with the outcome of the video.

Just now, Loopers said:

It would have benefited all involved. Are you seeking truth or a side? This isn't about Linus and reaching a company for comment before publication is common practice when reporting a bombshell-style report. This had zero advantage to benefit Linus or LMG except to add genuine context of which is important.

Everyone loves drama, but drama hurts real people and affects lives.

What benefit to both sides would there be to a scripted interview or a WAN show call between LTT and GN?

I'm going on what actually happened, not people wanting to discredit GN taking sides with LTT. 

Unfortunately it would've been about Linus, because Linus responded to this whole situation instead of the new CEO,  and he used a lot of "I" statements not "we" statements as that would indicate a response acting as a professional company. It seems like Linus takes issue with the things GN said as personal attacks, not problems with the company producing content.

The advantage is all there for Linus and LMG as the "What do we do now" video is monetized, and LTT store plugs are in it. I don't see any drama in this except for the people wanting to nitpick at how GN brought up these issues instead of focusing on the points GN made that LTT needs to improve on.

[reccah8]

Well played.

[ProbablyNotFidel]

Personally, I'm of the mindset that I wish Steve had a call with LMG staff on this. Not that he had an obligation, but I think it would have made the video better. A section of the interview or whatever and then the ability to be like "this is what I agree with and this is what I think is BS" I think would have been great, perhaps especially as information for more casual viewers. And with the LMG answers/rebuttals as fresh record, I feel things would have come out either more explanatory or even more damning. I guess I just feel it was a missed opportunity. 

 

Out of all the videos out there about all this, I'm most interested in Ian Cutress' video apparently getting recorded today. 

[SuperGnu]

12 hours ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

But based on the fact the film is easy to miss and a lot of potential buyers could also miss the film, they are right to recommend against the product. You can only blame Pwnage for this as it is their product.

 

I'll reiterate what I said in another comment, if people are interested in a product and 1 video completely puts them off and they refuse to do other research into product, that is their issue.

Interesting take. So you have forgotten to remove plastic film on something even after using it for a while? Do you try and use your mouse still in the box?

[Vishwajer]

 

Quote

 

On 10/8/2022 at 6:29 PM, Vishwajer said:

Lately, I think you have a wider audience with wider views which is a sign of the progress and reach you have. So, now you have to be cautious (and that is what most big companies do in terms of PR which we as consumers hate but necessary if you have a wider audience) on what you say in the videos.

 

And I'm sad to say this, but what you have said about inefficiencies when you grow people is hitting your content harder than you may think. Hope you will get your bearings and more concentrate.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote from another discussion. 

 

This is exactly what I thought will happen. LMG should hire independent parties and do a full vertical audit. And they should be transparent about it too. Quality over quantity any day. And, I was never a fan of these big designations like CVO, COO etc. You don't give those titles easily. And, create a PR department. Everything should be vetted by them. Even you can appoint FP community members as potential test audience to get reviews before the video goes live for 'some' videos. 

 

The company must grow organically/naturally. 

[Shlouski]

4 hours ago, Aiken Drum said:

Okay I'm calling you out. This is a flat-out lie

 

I'm not suggesting he used those words, for this reason I didn't use quotations.

 

It's a reference to how he covered his table in merch and put them in prominent positions seeming to make sure they get noticed, I'm pointing out that this is a strange thing to do on a video that he has made clear he doesn't want to profit from. 

 

You don't have to agree, but now you hopefully understand what I was trying to convey. 

[uncle_ruckus]

lol thanks to everyone for keeping me entertained for past couple days

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Any of those options would've been only beneficial to LMG/LTT, a call to LTT in private meant LTT wouldn't have to change anything, I think the video GN made was titled correctly so not sure what you mean there, calling Linus on the WAN show would've mean Linus probably having a discussion but again they wouldn't have to change anything and Linus would have his fans watching to defend him. As for a interview with the CEO, I think that would just result in some scripted interview where GN would only be allowed to ask certain questions and he possibly would've been under legal consequences for talking about anything else after making the video.

 

I doubt Steve and Linus were on good terms anyway, since GN called LTT out on the "trust me bro" backpack warranty, Linus took that personally and attacked everyone and the audience for it. And trying to sink a channel? LTT is going to be fine, GN on the other hand I think will be hurt more from this because of all the angry LTT fans will defend LMG, while LMG claims to be the good guys with a corporate sounding response.

In the Noah Katz story he had to reach out for clarification, that video was an investigative journalistic call out to Artesian Builds, he could've risked getting sued if he didn't get things correct.

The GN video calling out LMG as a company isn't the same at all, the points GN discussed were things all found are open to the public, when its all open to the public its fair to provide constructive critsism on how it can be improved upon.

As for GN not doing well, how do you know GN isn't doing well? Did you ask them, or are you just comparing their channel size to LTT?

Those journalism practices aren't a law, in broadcast TV they might be, I don't know I don't work in the media, the practice of asking first is just a nice thing to do.

LTT knew they needed to improve for years now, they just wanted to put quantity over quality, and didn't announce they were going to do better until someone called them out on it, and I won't believe their claims until I see their content quality improve.

You need to take your own advice and not idolize for LMG, saying GN weaponized cancel culture is nonsense,  GN didn't see LTT/LMG as a friend and may not have been on good enough terms to have access to LMG for the reason I've already stated, dismissing everything and claiming he tried to "cancel" LTT is an excessive claim when GN made the video to hold LTT as a company accountable for their actions.

That is your take on it. I believe in conversation. I never liked mud-slinging, and despite it all GN didn't grow until the Noah Katz situation and with LTT situation. The devil is in the details. I promise you I don't like LTT. I don't like GN. I don't like what both of them did in the tech space. The channels I follow have less than 100k subs. It is awesome to see them grow and find their place.

 

GN should have considered what this will do to the tech industry. There is no debate. Now every creator has to worry "Is my sample correct is my conclusion correct will I get cancelled". That killed the tech space in my book. GN could have done a lot better and the result would have been awesome! But no... Here we are.

[fjyrin]

5 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

GN should have considered what this will do to the tech industry. There is no debate. Now every creator has to worry "Is my sample correct is my conclusion correct will I get cancelled". That killed the tech space in my book. GN could have done a lot better and the result would have been awesome! But no... Here we are.

sorry, let me make sure I have this right. are you complaining that hardware reviewers are going to be worried about publishing accurate data?

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

17 minutes ago, fjyrin said:

sorry, let me make sure I have this right. are you complaining that hardware reviewers are going to be worried about publishing accurate data?

No, they're going to be worried about a moral crusade from Steve who'll unleash his outraged minions that lack any nuance or reasonableness.