Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Godiwa]

Oh the "drama" (lets call it uproar over being lied to for ages with false results...)

That helped... And needed to happen... NOW we finally see an reaction... Ordinary viewers have been ignored for the last couple of years while the quality dwindled... Now someone with bigger shoes came in and threw the evidence on the table...

That Billet Labs just happen to happen too at the same time is just proof that LMG is functionally in a crappy place...

Now change will finally happen and they can't just brush viewers away... The viewers have been heard LOUD and CLEARLY...

Now we can just hope they really take it seriously and actually fix the systemic issues there are and come out better and stronger...

[Vexenar]

26 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

What did they do here? Why was the same courtesy not extended to LTT?

Probably has to do with the fact that Linus has a track record of spinning things in his own direction. 

Just look at his initial reaction on these forums about the subject, he essentially took a startup's prototype which was borrowed out of good faith, decided to make a video where he not only improperly tested it but chose to do so without the card it was intended for (and shipped with mind you) but then he proceeded to throw the startup under the bus by saying it was a bad product and nobody should buy it. And that was all based on his shit way of testing it. 

And after all that he auctioned (sold for charity) it off and when people called him out for it he said somehow auctioning it off was different than selling someone's property. The entire e-mail process that was shown in the apology video also shows that people from LMG did not respect the product or the startup either, the entire sentence that says "At least it's not collecting dust on a shelf :)" is really, really scummy to say the least and is not something I would expect from a professional e-mail from LMG. But that again shows the systemic issues that are plagueing the company I guess. 

Honestly, Gamers Nexus not reaching out to LMG was the best thing they could do to force change to happen and to catch Linus with his pants down so to speak.
He can't spin it in his direction, he is forced to accept the valid criticism and change things for the better. 

And to be honest with you, I want LMG to be and do better, I like Linus as a personality and I want his company to succeed.
However, in order to succeed you need to take criticism without taking it personally, and if anything has been proven it's that internally LMG is mostly an echo chamber that is filled with yes-man for Linus which in the long run won't help him tackle key issues that are obviously plagueing the company. 

[eskimododo]

Just fire Linus and change the show to be called Luke Tech tips. Luke handles things so much more mature and thoughtful than Linus.

[Subdegree]

With everything that is going on it’s clear to me that people are misunderstanding the problem at lmg 

although they are a huge company they are still young and are so busy trying to stay on top of things they forgot a Core principle “respect”. This comes from the top and filters down throughout the staff (please note lmg is not the first company to let this happen it’s actually common). This can be seen clearly:

1. staff members lack of respect to other YouTubers(which started it all)

2. Lack of respect to their colleagues ie Maddison 

3. lack of respect to manufacturers ie billet labs

4. lack of respect to their audience by not having proper care with their content

 

Their video explaining the changes that will be made shows they don’t recognise this and that they are focusing on keeping the audience happy instead of fixing the problem.

 

The change can only come from Linus most of his staff have taken his lead and clearly won’t be able to change unless he shows them how.

 

Please Linus understand the the issue. As a Buisness owner I went through this myself and understand it’s easier to to believe you not wrong . I hope you take some time and realise that teaching respect will only benefit you, your company and your family in the long run.

[aaradorn]

9 minutes ago, eskimododo said:

Just fire Linus and change the show to be called Luke Tech tips. Luke handles things so much more mature and thoughtful than Linus.

Not needed, but removing the keyboard from linus's PC when drama hits is definitely preferred

[Vexenar]

8 minutes ago, aaradorn said:

Not needed, but removing the keyboard from linus's PC when drama hits is definitely preferred

The Gamers Nexus take wasn't really what sparked the drama though, that kind of happened after Linus his initial statement.
Shit hit the fan after that. 

[Guest]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:25 PM, LinusTech said:

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece....

 

...like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication...

1) You demostrably don't go through proper "journalistic practices" in creating videos - or even "testing practices" in testing. 

 

2) Auction - noun - public *sale* in which goods or property are *sold* to the highest bidder.

[Battlenat0r]

@LinusTech
Though the apology video was okey in it self.
You should have had a big section on apologizing to Billet Labs.

• They sent a ¨guide¨ on how to do it.
• We blatantly ignored it, because I felt it was not worth my time (?)
• How thing was handled in that ¨review¨ video.
• That you dragged their product and name through the mud, for YOUR wrongdoing. 
  And trashed a innovative product that MAY or MAY NOT change the industry going forward.
• And do a apology to other sponsors/products you may or may not have trashed..
  ¨That I hope for other sponsors or products that were featured on this channel or other channels, I and we are sorry if we misrepresented or didn't do justice to your product. We hope at some point, we can do more stuff together and that I didn't do my best, that's on me, but I hope we can mend things and look for a better future on whats to come.¨

If you would have done this in the video... and if you really meant it, not just say it to say it.. I think that apology video would have been more of a ¨let's turn the page, and move on¨.

[Vexenar]

3 minutes ago, Battlenat0r said:

If you would have done this in the video... and if you really meant it, not just say it to say it.. I think that apology video would have been more of a ¨let's turn the page, and move on¨.

If anything, with the leaked price of the prototype they probably have done even more damage to the startup. 
It's also just another blow after they mentioned that they did **NOT** want the price of the prototype to be made public, and it also shows that even their apology video was riddled with errors like not excluding Colton's email /again/. 

[tnbdare]

LMG is totally all behind secret shopper; auditing claims to find the truth. Insulting GN about not retesting was just an invite for a reaction. And I'm sure Steven didn't intend to cause a huge wave, but once he stumbled on the vastness of inaccurate data... the rest is history. Labs have been advertised as the white knight that will save the consumer from revenue only generated manufacturing decisions that mislead the consumer. Labs are going to have to earn that reputation before calling out other content creators. 

 

If you think about it who has the intimate knowledge of tech, YT, and the content creator space and the platform to ring this bell. Don't hate on Steve. If these things weren't happening there would be no video to be made. At this point all we can do is measure LMG by their response. We saw what ASUS and Newegg handled GN's criticisms. Lets see how this plays out. 

[Guest]

For the children and young people among you. This may be unrelated to the topic but I deemed it important enough to share.

 

In the grownup world where there are consequences, both life consequences and legal consequences one simply does not just "apologize".

 

If you apologize you admit to guilt. In most situations, this is not a problem. However, if you are a company and you give an apology for something, it may result in legal action. You keep your mouth shut, and your lawyer informed. Your lawyer will tell you what you can or can't say. Respect the law and use the law to your benefit, not your detriment. 

 

Take care.

 

[ProbablyNotFidel]

8 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

If anything, with the leaked price of the prototype they probably have done even more damage to the startup. 
It's also just another blow after they mentioned that they did **NOT** want the price of the prototype to be made public, and it also shows that even their apology video was riddled with errors like not excluding Colton's email /again/. 

How would the leaked price hurt the company more than the loss of the actual prototype? Not saying showing the price was alright, I just don't see how that's really going to hurt a company. 

[adm0n]

1 hour ago, 3m3m said:

A recorded interview that is going to be published is not private. GN did this before did they not? Did they not travel out of pocket sat down with decision-makers of that company and spoke to them about the situation? They did I respect them for that piece of journalism. Why? Because they build something, they created something people can understand and use. What did they do here? Why was the same courtesy not extended to LTT?

 

GN know how to do this right. They made a choice not to do that. That is my problem. Imagine if LTT could have spoken face to face and truly explained everything and was given the opportunity to make commitments. Then GN could have said, right we WILL keep you accountable and do. That would have been constructive and awesome as a video and real respect all around. Now we have mud-slinging, cancel culture and division. How is this good?

 

Let us agree on this Both sides could have done a better job. I have a life to live I am done with this.

GN did somewhat explain why they did not reach out in the first place. Most of these issues were already brought to the attention and were handled by LMG. They knew about most of the mistakes they've made in their videos and they have publicly responded to the billet labs review. So GN basically took what was publicly visible and LMGs response to anything that happened and responded to it.

 

In my opinion, GN did nothing morally wrong here. Part of it is also that LMG has the platform to address any allegations against them. If GN would however run a piece like this about a small company, that hasn't responded to anything and has no real platform to reach most of the audience, it would be different. 

[Vexenar]

1 minute ago, ProbablyNotFidel said:

How would the leaked price hurt the company more than the loss of the actual prototype? Not saying showing the price was alright, I just don't see how that's really going to hurt a company. 

Both are bad, but when a prototype costs 2000$ and a company asks 800$ for the finished product people are going to naturally ask questions about why the price of the finished product is still so high.

So in that sense, LMG releasing the prototype cost will damage Billit Labs because people are going to wonder if it's worth that price. 
Naturally we are talking about something akin to custom watercooling which is in the space of enthusiasts, but still. 

[ProbablyNotFidel]

Just now, Vexenar said:

Both are bad, but when a prototype costs 2000$ and a company asks 800$ for the finished product people are going to naturally ask questions about why the price of the finished product is still so high.

So in that sense, LMG releasing the prototype cost will damage Billit Labs because people are going to wonder if it's worth that price. 
Naturally we are talking about something akin to custom watercooling which is in the space of enthusiasts, but still. 

I really think that's grasping. I still can't see the leaked price doing anything to them. Still, never should have happened. 

[Godiwa]

8 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

Both are bad, but when a prototype costs 2000$ and a company asks 800$ for the finished product people are going to naturally ask questions about why the price of the finished product is still so high.

So in that sense, LMG releasing the prototype cost will damage Billit Labs because people are going to wonder if it's worth that price. 
Naturally we are talking about something akin to custom watercooling which is in the space of enthusiasts, but still. 

that question about the price of the finished product you could answer yourself if you spent a few seconds... first the price is in £ not $ that was your first mistake... prices in the UK are including VAT, not sure on the exact % but I think it is around 20-25% I could google it but can't be arsed... the products are atm. handmade... so they don't benefit from grand scale of production, they are made in the UK which is expensive for work hours etc. etc. and it is a dual cooler not just "one" waterblock... it is for both CPU and GPU... they are currently made from a copper billet (google it) which is expensive... and it is pretty much just a proof of concept but if you want, you can buy one... will they ever go in full production as is? doubt it... could it lead to something else that is cheaper in the future? most likely...

[cjhmdm]

To everyone saying that Steve should've reached out for comment... what could Linus have possibly said that would've changed anything in the video? We've already seen his response to this entire situation thus far, and to me, Linus is really starting to sound like that dude from Artesian Builds, and we all know how that turned out. Besides, Steve also gave pretty solid reasoning as to why he didn't reach out for comment, and his reasoning was proven correct by Linus' initial book of a response that attempted to manipulate the crowd and make himself the victim in all of this.

 

I mean, seriously, Linus in on record stating that he doesn't want to spend the money to make corrections. There's no factual context he could've given to defend that position because he's made it crystal clear that all he cares about is pushing out the content, accuracy and factual data be damned.

 

What I truly find sad though is the number of people out here defending LTT in this regard. These guys are literally out here hurting businesses because they can't be bothered to get their information right.

[CaptBananaPants]

LTT monetized their apology video and included the usual links to the store and products....

 

The video was such a good step but god damnit the stupidity still rears its head. It's so tone deaf.  

[dragonuck76]

why are you all discussing and calling out LTT still... they have made there piece and responded and answered the community.  GN did wrong, LTT did wrong.  That is the end of it.  to continue, you are the issue, not LTT or GN

[SplAdam]

3 minutes ago, dragonuck76 said:

why are you all discussing and calling out LTT still... they have made there piece and responded and answered the community.  GN did wrong, LTT did wrong.  That is the end of it.  to continue, you are the issue, not LTT or GN

GN quite possible saved LMG, everyone should be thanking Steve Burk., Steve and GN are the gold standard for integrity in the tech media space right now. 

[Awsmkiid13]

2 minutes ago, SplAdam said:

GN quite possible saved LMG, everyone should be thanking Steve Burk., Steve and GN are the gold standard for integrity in the tech media space right now. 

Fair point, he maybe did, but again, Fuck steve and GN, a nice save for a dying channel not doing so good. 

[dragonuck76]

1 minute ago, SplAdam said:

GN quite possible saved LMG, everyone should be thanking Steve Burk., Steve and GN are the gold standard for integrity in the tech media space right now. 

no they are not.  Steve made alegations with no facts from both sides, they only pointed out what we already knew, and to which if anyone watched the WAN show, Linus and Luke responded to stating so many times they are correcting things, and these things take time to correct.  They do.  GN used the opportunity to attack, all because a employee at LTT made a poor comment, and which again the WAN show called out stated they had dealt with it internally and that was the end of it.  As it shoulld.  IF GN and others had issue, they could have called Linus and discussed.    Sorry, yes GN had points, but the manner in how they dealt with it now as we know from LTT side, appears to show it was personal and to be honest, before I watched GN full video, but on my first attempt to find out what had occured, I stopped watching as soon as Steve said we know who you are talking about.  Sorry but how would you, there are so many youtubers, or others in the community.  The slow down in the video showing Lukes look towards Linus, are all signs that he is picking, and showing us what he wants, to then play LTT video discuss the situation and needing to slow down and yet that is exactly what WAN show discussed on the last few that they are working on.  It has even been discussed on here a few times.  So yes LTT needed to post the video they did.  They answered.  Now it is time to allow them to correct things, get new processes in place, to open things, and be who they are and who we ant them to be.  So to continue calling out LMG and LTT etc, is only done by those who want the drama and love it... and that is poor

[Potatoes2241]

18 minutes ago, dragonuck76 said:

why are you all discussing and calling out LTT still... they have made there piece and responded and answered the community.  GN did wrong, LTT did wrong.  That is the end of it.  to continue, you are the issue, not LTT or GN

Get ready to be called a fanboy shill, shitting on LTT is a trendy internet moment right now.

 

12 minutes ago, SplAdam said:

GN quite possible saved LMG, everyone should be thanking Steve Burk., Steve and GN are the gold standard for integrity in the tech media space right now. 

GN has pointed out some really bad issues to be solved but can we please cut it out with making them literal angels? It has been proven multiple times in this godforsaken thread that they have integrity issues of their own and don't forget that they are the direct competitor to LTT and their upcoming labs, so they are pretty much interested in pissing in LTT's soup as long as they can get away with it without being called out. Not saying they were wrong with the initial accusation, but the lame tone and the ensuing drama hype are not painting GN as a "gold standard".

[dragonuck76]

4 minutes ago, Awsmkiid13 said:

Fair point, he maybe did, but again, Fuck steve and GN, a nice save for a dying channel not doing so good. 

Agree, from seeing the youtube detail of subscribers, video views etc, they look to be losing out, and I do think this is part of the reason.  I also think they are scared of LTT LAB, which when ready and systems processes in place will be one of a few sites people will go to for such indepth info... and that is what I think GN is affraid of, which it should not.  It should be wanted, as before this, I used both channels to review what ever it was I wanted to know about, and now, for now, I will not review GN content, I kept sub, but I will not watch.  I have other sources I can use to find out what I need.

[TheRepoGuy]

Linus, I hope you read this comment. I do not think you understand the gravity of the situation you are in. Going by this reddit post, you have already lost 5k floatplane subs, which totals to about $300,000 revenue per year. If that post is true and your interest rate payments are $1.5 m then you have effectively lost 20% revenue going forward.

 

Going by comments again supposedly finances are tight at LTT. This means if your video output decreases you will lose even more revenue. The thing is, higher quality videos are what your viewers want. But it's clear the output you have at the moment is not conducive to quality. But your business RELIES on views to make money (and merch sales etc.).

 

Your life (and your employees lives) could actually be harmed very badly due to this video. Why?

 

Because if your revenue disappears, you can't pay for your bills. At the same time you can't hire more people to make higher quality videos because that will cost you heaps in salary. On top of that you can't fire people to save money because you need to keep churning out videos of higher quality. Yet you and your team have knee-jerked and said that you'll focus on taking more time on your videos (from your silly half-baked apology video). So you've already put it out there that you will slow down. But you're already bleeding floatplane subs and Youtube subs. 

 

It's clear to me no one in your business knows what they are doing, not even you. It's clear to me everyone you've hired have been under-qualified for their roles. It's clear to me your ego blinded you and made you behave like a silly child going by your first reply to the GamersNexus video. Your apology video also came way too quickly. I don't know who wrote the script for it, but it sucked. The jokes were stupid, the sex jokes were stupid, the product plugs were shameful. People with less experience than your team could write a better script. It's horrendous you monetised that video. But with how poor your cashflow must be, it isn't surprising.

 

Despite thinking that GamersNexus did the right thing, I'm actually worried for your future now. I don't think you understand the gravity of what you've done, and this hasn't happened over one week, it's happened over 1.5 - 2 years. You've expanded way too fast, you did not plan correctly, I bet you didn't even consider the fact interest rates can go up. You've been spending money willy nilly like a fool. It's clear to me you've just become blinded by money. Money has corrupted you. Your mansion and Porsche are silly wastes of money. You thought the money would roll in no matter what. You literally have people out there, some possibly living paycheck-to-paycheck GIVING YOU MONEY by subscribing to floatplane, and the way you spend that money is on a MANSION AND PORSCHE? SERIOUSLY?

 

As I said, you may have effectively destroyed not just your own life but the lives of your employees. Your ego and pride has got in the way of everything. As one human being to another (even despite your character flaws) I hope you get your finances sorted quick. I would suggest contacting the VC firm and selling LMG before they catch wind of what's happening now. I hope you bought your house with cash. Despite what Gordon Gecko says, greed is NOT good.

 

If you are not running around sh*tting your pants trying to fix things, you aren't doing enough. You are welcome to this free advice. Although we both know if I was you I would make you pay me for it because you are a greedy corporate leech.

 

Oh and Linus, in case you haven't realised it yet: you need to track down the buyer of the water block, buy it back and send it to Billet Labs. If someone auctioned off something you made with your bare hands would monetary compensation fix it? NO.