Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[bandainamcofan]

41 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

acts in unethical

Flat out wrong. There's no ethical obligation to reach out to the subject of a story for comment.

[David_Campbell]

6 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

Flat out wrong. There's no ethical obligation to reach out to the subject of a story for comment.

then do just to be nice, they went after one of ther own. whether justified or not they did it, others will see this and not want to go near them, they have a lot of fair weather friends right now!

[Bloodthermic]

33 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

We watched, we understood what he is saying, we even commented that his criticism is valid.

 

What we take issue with is him framing himself as some sort of moral agent in the fight, when at the minimum he is acting in base hypocrisy. and at the worst, leveraging this for his own benefit.

This here! When talking about the recalling of content he clearly states "if you want to know how we deal with that we are not here to talk about that." You cant call out peoples errors or how badly someone does something without showing how you do it better. If you don't how it its the definition of hypocrisy.

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, David_Campbell said:

then do just to be nice

That in and of itself would be an ethical violation. You don't give the subject of a story special treatment.

[Amaninacity]

13 minutes ago, JeffreyLF said:

tbh even if they had reached out it wouldn't have made much of a difference imo

So be it. One of the people refusing to acknowledge that this was fucked made a big mention about how even the appearance of impropriety is bad. Well, this appears awfully like Steve refused to follow a standard practice that he himself said is important because… I dunno. Maybe he made up his mind. Maybe he was trying to knock Linus down a peg for competitive reasons. Maybe there’s some additional private beef that motivated this.

 

if he was reporting objectively, he’d have considered the possibility that Linus’ side of things might affect the conclusion. Even though he was largely right, he was not objective. And, also, one of the reasons you ask for comment is because a bad response can bolster your story if it’s true. Imagine he reached out for comment and got linus’ original response. It would have been bedlam.

[Biomancer81]

2 hours ago, Godiwa said:

just watch the video they just posted today about it?

Hey Steve, nice to see you here. It is weird the only activity you have on here has to deal with this topic or Alternatives to LTT.

 

If that is what you are interested in, why are you still here 7 years after joining. By all means go elsewhere.

[starsmine]

6 minutes ago, Apologize_to_madison said:

Never since you don't need ethics to run a company

Here is madison exit interview
 

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15t1mzn/mandatory_meeting_the_after_madisons_departure/

That is NOT an exit interview.

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, Amaninacity said:

not objective

Your repeated assertion of this does not make it so. You're clearly not interested in anything but trying to discredit the messenger.

[David_Campbell]

6 minutes ago, RevengeofProfKatz said:

And now it is finally confirmed why Madison Suop left LMG and that the Glass Door review was actually hers. Linus, as much as I thought you were a lying scumbag asshole before, seeing this now, you really, truly are, fucking human garbage.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741.html

you are better after calling someone those names? We have her story, now let wait to see theres, then we will find the truth.  try read every second chapter of a book, its nonses then!

[Biomancer81]

3 hours ago, TechDeckCAD said:

You're not going to get anything new other than "no, I deny this, and actually this is what happened." Once again, we already had record of LMG/LTT lying. The email timelines from both entities already showcased that LMG/LTT was disingenuous in their dealings with Billet Labs, going so far as to say they were going to return the prototype twice, before being ghosted. So as far as GN is concerned, they already showed LMG/LTT having the propensity to lie and double down on their claims.

 

"But the failure to do it shows a lack of objectivity" - Are you serious??? Refusing to report on the matter or having a very favourable view of LMG/LTT because of GN's association with him, would've been lacking in objectivity. Once again, you're complaining about GN doing something "wrong" (which is incorrect), and then losing sight of the bigger picture.

No, he lacks objectivity because he didnt observe the object from all angles, it is also a conflict of interest, because he will directly benefit from taking down a competitor. It is hyoocritical based on his own statments around conflicts of interest

 

So yes, Steve hold high standards for everyone but himself.

[RevengeofProfKatz]

1 minute ago, David_Campbell said:

you are better after calling someone those names? We have her story, now let wait to see theres, then we will find the truth.  try read every second chapter of a book, its nonses then!

I don't have a record of selling peoples prototypes, or giving inaccurate performance metrics on product reviews, lying to an entire viewership that supports me, my channel, and my company, or cultivating a toxic as fuck, slave driving, sexually harassing cesspool of a workplace. So yeah, I'd say I'm better. Thanks for asking though clown.

[David_Campbell]

7 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

That in and of itself would be an ethical violation. You don't give the subject of a story special treatment.

"Ethics can vary based on perspectives, but there are commonly shared principles that guide ethical behavior, such as honesty, fairness, compassion, and empathy."

 

He was smiling with joy the whole video while using aggressive language to ensure he got his anger from you. Wether the info was right or not he lost the second he took joy in others pain

[FRESHYLEMON]

4 hours ago, IAmDarthMole said:

Do you really think if LMG/LTT didn't care they would be allowing all of this discontent/accusations/rage/vitriol/nasty on their own forums?

 

Not even close to resembling a decent debate point that you think it is lmfao. Like what was this even supposed to add to the discussion? I can easily, easily, so easily find forums belonging to a company where there is negativity that was "allowed" to remain... Every video game forum has players negatively commenting on the company and developers in addition to a far more vitriolic stance than what has taken place here on these forums. So I ask again, what's your argument point? We saw LMG remove a quantity of comments related to Madison as well on YouTube as well. So... yeah. EDIT: Probably before you even see the original but I'll leave it in cross-out, but there are mentions of YouTube's algorithm taking out the comments so I'll remove this debate point.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by FRESHYLEMON

[Biomancer81]

4 hours ago, TechDeckCAD said:

It's really annoying how many people have chosen to misunderstand GN's point about not reaching out to LTT/LMG regarding the Billet Labs story + data misrepresentation.

 

1) GN isn't a journalist, so I don't understand why the majority of people here are trying to hold him to trained journalist standards when he's not had any formal training or an abundance of experience in journalism prior to making Gamers Nexus channel (as far as I know, his education and expertise is in engineering, QA testing, and software development). This has to be an intentional distraction to avoid dealing with LMG's tendency to gaslight and lie.

 

2) GN's logic of avoiding talking to the other side for their story isn't any less valid. LTT/LMG clearly showed a level of negligence regarding their dealings with Billet Labs to the extent that BL were never contacted about UNTIL GN's initial video went live. When you're dealing with an organization that is willing to lie and gaslight people in order to play the narratives game, why on God's green earth would their word be given so much importance? Why should anyone care what their side of the story is?

He literally says in the video that he holds himself to the highest journalistic integrity. What about this makes you assume he isnt a journalist?

[David_Campbell]

5 minutes ago, RevengeofProfKatz said:

I don't have a record of selling peoples prototypes, or giving inaccurate performance metrics on product reviews, lying to an entire viewership that supports me, my channel, and my company, or cultivating a toxic as fuck, slave driving, sexually harassing cesspool of a workplace. So yeah, I'd say I'm better. Thanks for asking though clown.

its not weak to reach out for help when we need it, that anger will destroy your life but dont let it! 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, andreimj said:

The last 3 hours of reading your takes were realy insightful and helpful for the comunity. It's a shame that many of us that acted against the hating mob of lynches got lost in the shitstorm. What happened was not ok. It wasn't even about Linus. Can you imagine that I've read comments on this forum and on reddit that threatened Linus's kids?! Yesterday I've lost all hope for the community and felt like I was living a lie in my own bubble. I am greatful for LMG's response and how calmness and reason led them to the right decision. I am also greatful for the people that kept their calm and didn't choose the herd mentality over common sense and reason. Today we have a broader picture and it's only getting better from here.

 

It's been a wild ride these 48 hours, but I'm really exciting for what's to come.

 

I'm going to sleep now. Take care and remember to be kind to yourselves and others

+1

 

This unfortunatly is one of the major issues with the internet/social media in general. Angry mob syndrome is very easy to get going and fall into...I personally have caught myself in situations like this, before which taught me that you cannot always just pick a side. You have to let things play out and get ALL of the facts, not just siding with one media outlet and ignoring everything else.

 

I would argue that many of these people don't even know why they are mad. They want to be mad, just to be mad and in this situation there is nothing Linus, or LMG can say that will make them happy. Sure some take issue at the fake sponsor spots, etc...I personally don't care either way, but I do understand their frustration...however, even if they didn't do that and it was flawless, the mob mentality would find a way to find fault with it no matter what. Oh he didn't comb his hair properly, oh hes not crying enough, etc...there will always be a negative, no matter what.

 

As you are seeing though, as time plays out cooler heads do indeed prevail, it just takes time..

 

[bandainamcofan]

4 minutes ago, David_Campbell said:

"Ethics can vary based on perspectives, but there are commonly shared principles that guide ethical behavior, such as honesty, fairness, compassion, and empathy."

 

He was smiling with joy the whole video while using aggressive language to ensure he got his anger from you. Wether the info was right or not he lost the second he took joy in others pain

This reply has nothing to do with what I said and suggests you're not interested in anything but discrediting the messenger.

3 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

He literally says in the video that he holds himself to the highest journalistic integrity. What about this makes you assume he isnt a journalist?

There is no ethical obligation to reach to the subject of a story for comment. 

[Cynical_user23]

@LinusTech As someone who just left a company due to having a higher than average workload I feel your pain. In my field of work (general contracting)
the last company I worked for was incredibly unorganized and the owner tended to take on too much work. Some days we would be working a job, then midway through the day we would get pulled off to go do something else. This led to many delays in production, and poor overall quality of work. We would be so busy trying to finish a project, that minor details would get missed and mistakes were made. The owner would promise customers unrealistic deadlines and then blame us when the deadline wasn't met. We are all human and we all make mistakes. But in almost all the jobs I have had, the ones with a more casual relaxed environment tended to have a better production quality than ones where there was a time crunch or nearly unrealistic expectations.


While I can't speak on how LMG is ran, I have seen quite a few companies go under or completely restructure itself due to a "Grindset mindset" which, don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with hard work, but things that I outlined above are not uncommon flaws and drawbacks. 

This is all fairly strange to me.. because last night I fell asleep watching an AMD $5000 Ultimate Tech upgrade video, I had a dream that I came to work for LMG. Then I woke up today to this video and the apology video as well. 


With all that said, I hope LMG will get through all of this and find a solution that will make everyone happy. 

 

[J82465]

 

 

interesting take, what do you think

[Lurker_Letum]

10 minutes ago, FRESHYLEMON said:

Not even close to resembling a decent debate point that you think it is lmfao. Like what was this even supposed to add to the discussion? I can easily, easily, so easily find forums belonging to a company where there is negativity that was "allowed" to remain... Every video game forum has players negatively commenting on the company and developers in addition to a far more vitriolic stance than what has taken place here on these forums. So I ask again, what's your argument point? We saw LMG remove a quantity of comments related to Madison as well on YouTube as well. So... yeah.

 

 

 

Damn. 11 hour old comment within the top 10 comments on the video and with 6k likes. They sure are are doing an amazing job at censoring comments lol.

Along with the shit ton of comments in there subreddit and on here. 

 

Edit: Also after clicking on the link to the reddit post you linked. You can see most people on that post commenting about how it's the shitty youtube algorithm fucking with comments. Bang up job on making your point my guy.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Lurker_Letum
Clicked on the link in the post I was replying to

[David_Campbell]

Just now, bandainamcofan said:

This reply has nothing to do with what I said and suggests you're not interested in anything but discrediting the messenger.

There is no ethical obligation to reach to the subject of a story for comment. 

ignore what makes your wrong sure ok,

 

no ethical obligation to get facts from both sides?? ok let all watch russian state media, im sure its always right.

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, David_Campbell said:

ignore what makes your wrong sure ok,

 

no ethical obligation to get facts from both sides?? ok let all watch russian state media, im sure its always right.

What fact wasn't presented?

[Lurker_Letum]

Just now, bandainamcofan said:

What fact wasn't presented?

The timing for the emails between billet lab and LTT and generally background info. Which has been the entire point of everyone arguing with you. The majority of the video from GN can easily be argued that there was no ethical requirement to ask for comment cause the majority of the video was public information. But the billet lab part wasn't. Which is especially bad since that was the big thing people initially got up in arms about.

 

Along with the fact that there is a massive conflict of interest here and that Steve treated LTT differently from other companies he ran pieces on. Paints a bad image for GN. Not as bad as the image LTT has painted themselves so GN is lucky for that. But still not good either.

[LiamApex]

I mean.. I think GN had valid points originally, I think Linus' first response was emotional, and responding when emotional is always a bad idea. remember this is his life work, he has spent over 10 years passionately building this thing. its not easy to be criticised. and I think there second video, was good, honest and I hope they stick to the points made. 

 

secondly, I think Chris, and people like that, are using the situation to attract an audience, Chris' views were fairly neutral, likely because he doesn't want to completely side with one or the other and risk the outlast from the LTT audience. all im interested in is how Linus and his team fix the issues and move forward in a positive and consumer oriented way.

 

as a member of this community since NCIX days and frankly since my child hood, I want to see Linus come out of this, I want to see him in more fun off the cuff content like the old days. the community loves the vloggy style content. whole room water cooling was one of the best things LTT ever produced more crazy projects like that please. its been undoubtedly a rough week for Linus Tech Tips. but no one has anything to gain from him being berated and attacked over this. yes people are mad, but there are 120 real people working with Linus that depend on him for their Mortgage, rent, food and car payments. he is responsible for 120 incomes. so I think we need to allow LTT a chance to rectify this.

 

as you were.. LB

[TechDeckCAD]

17 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

No, he lacks objectivity because he didnt observe the object from all angles, it is also a conflict of interest, because he will directly benefit from taking down a competitor. It is hyoocritical based on his own statments around conflicts of interest

 

So yes, Steve hold high standards for everyone but himself.

Being objective has literally nothing to do with "observing from all angles." Being objective means you're not influenced by personal feelings, history, relationships, etc., and you have the ability to view events or people as completely separate from one's own interest or feelings.

 

And let me get this straight. It's a conflict of interest if he covers this story, but suddenly not a conflict of interest if he were to contact LMG/LTT knowing that they have a personal relationship? Why do you think GN mentioned putting his history w/ LMG/LTT aside?

 

Once again, you're just like everyone else who continues to misunderstand what is expected of journalists + their code of ethics.