Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[ScoggsUK]

1 minute ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

No, no, no, no. You don't seem to have followed developments. Linus lied about Billet yesterday. He made it look like the situation was already resolved (something which was a complete fabrication). I am not an LTT fan for some time now but I am a tech guy. And as a tech guy and a human being I demand an apology for the lies that were said to me and to millions of others.

Seriously can you grab the qoute where he has lied? 

[IndustrialBananaBread]

2 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

Linus offered to send the block back today? Good on him. Doesn't absolve everything - not even close - but at least he's trying to make it right. Also glad to hear it sounds like it didn't end up in the hands of a rival company, which is good.

To be honest the fact this is kicking off after this has all come out, it looks more like LMG is quickly trying to fix the situation so they can say 'hey guys its all good now put down your pitchforks'. Don't get me wrong, it's good that something has happened, but the motivation to suddenly compensate them isn't great imo

[jooroth18]

4 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

If losing 1 prototype can destroy your startup, perhaps your startup shouldn’t have been sending out prototypes half way around the world to be reviewed.

maybe you need to in order to get the word out about your product so you can generate hype and revenue.

[VisibleXela]

Just now, coonwhiz said:

According to Billet, LTT doesn't have the block yet, so they can't send it back today. They just confirmed it's not with a competitor and that it's "likely he can get the block back from the buyer."

Right, I understood, I was just pointing out that Linus is genuinely trying to resolve things.

 

LMG super fucked up here and there's plenty more to answer for (especially since they didn't do any of this until after the GN video), but it's also important to specifically recognize when someone does the right thing, especially after they fucked up.

[Blademaster91]

32 minutes ago, filpo said:

ah yes, 'who the the fuck do you think you are'

 

I hate how this forum (or thread at least) is slowly turning into reddit 

I really hate how people are attacking others for simply having less posts or joined to give feedback, that elitist nonsense definitely reminds me of reddit.

[BarneyStinson]

I havnt watched the GN video, not at all interested in youtube creator he said she said crap.

I like the silly server videos and stupid crap they film.  As for facts and figures even LTT recommend you use many sources to inform your decisons.  If LABs was fully up and running and had missleading or factually incorrect reporting on the new website and was not addressed or ammended I would take issue with that.

But this is a work in progress and issues will arise.  Youtube can never really be used reliably for review purposes imo.  Due to the algorithms feeding me what I want to hear not what I need to hear I will normally only get content served to me that gratifies my current postion.  Yes I could search for other opinions etc but for acurate reviews I would sooner go to written articles on dedicated sites.  Think anandtech, tomsguide etc. 

If LABs concentrate on that I think it could be a valuble tool in the consumers hands.

I do think the sooner the new CEO steers the ship the better.

Linus has done something very special with LTT but its gotten to big to fail now.  Some people calling for boycotts and unsub etc.  Think of all the NOT Linus staff, its alot of peoples pay checks and bills.  I think its right he takes a back seat on some of this and lets someone with more experience in that postion do what needs to be done in the backround.

I personally dont like Linus for his amazing ability to organise a spreadsheet and email updated workflows and introduce KPIs SOPs keep ontop of COSHH..........list keeps going.

I wanna see him show me a crazy 2000core server with 6 gpus in a 1u rack.  Or we made our own ISP and provided all our staff with LinusNet.

The whole Billet f##k up is bad and he maybe should of said zero.  Have the CEO release a formal press release.  "Sorry, this is what happened and a,b,c will be getting done to ensure all parties are happy and it does not happen again.  No further statements will be made public unless asked to by concerned parties.

Anyways I will still be watching but any Linus youtube reply or related videos will be skipped.  If I want to watch a drama I have plenty at my own job that I cant sadly skip.

Peace

[Cosmic Emotion]

Just now, ScoggsUK said:

Seriously can you grab the qoute where he has lied? 

I can grab the whole page where everyone thought that's what Linus has been saying. Page 69.

[PandaSquawk]

2 minutes ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

No, no, no, no. You don't seem to have followed developments. Linus lied about Billet yesterday. He made it look like the situation was already resolved (something which was a complete fabrication). I am not an LTT fan for some time now but I am a tech guy. And as a tech guy and a human being I demand an apology for the lies that were said to me and to millions of others.

Or maybe Linus actually thought it was resolved? Come on, maybe chill on the rage for a bit.

[dege13]

5 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

If losing 1 prototype can destroy your startup, perhaps your startup shouldn’t have been sending out prototypes half way around the world to be reviewed.

I think Linus talking badly about the product was also a huge impact, not just keeping/selling the prototype.

Plenty of startups take a calculated risk like shipping a prototype to a 'trusted' content creator for the chance of an increase in interest in the product.

[The_Q42]

13 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

 

It's not about a high number of posts, it's about having any posts or even an account from more than a day ago. Again, it's a convenient way to ignore the clear brigading going-on.

 

This forum is free, it takes two minutes to create an account, it's been mentioned in LTT videos for years. Me having an expectation that truly invested people with actual constructive criticism, would have something more than a brand new account and a handful of posts in a drama thread, is not unreasonable. 

Sorry, but it sounds like you're making an awfully convenient excuse there.  LMG is massive in this space, but this space is still fairly niche, and MOST people consume LMG content via YouTube.  There is a ton of crossover between LMG viewers and GN viewers, and GN raised some really good points.  People like me who HAVE posted here in the past (but only rarely) simply signed on to voice our concerns, which is valid and part of the reason this forum exists.

 

I think you think people have more time to do crap like this than they actually have.

 

There's also an interesting thing with this audience . . . I'd bet a lot of people are like me: extremely tech savvy, and not really in need of tech help.  I keep up with tech news, and have a group of nerds that I regularly talk about it with in my own social circles.  In other words, I don't feel the NEED to post here often, and I don't have the spare time to be an effective tech resource on this forum AND to my entire family AND in my professional life.

 

In short: I'm a long-time fan that doesn't post often here. I DO care about LMG and want it to succeed.  I'm disappointed in the response so far, and think it's fair to voice that.  Quit trying to shut people like me down just because we don't post a lot or are new.

[Potatoes2241]

Ohhh the drama gets drammier

 

Dunno, I agreed with the points in Steve's first video but the second one, while the reply from Linus was not fine, sounds too personal and a bit hysterical. And super condescending. I feel GN is more interested in riding a hype wave rather than actually standing for something.

 

LTT should definitely do a better job that for sure but you can't expect anyone to properly react to such huge piece of critique within 4 hours of public embarrassment and then instantly throw an emotional hissy fit because your highness is disappointed by a forum post.

 

If you are wearing big boy shoes and stand for class and integrity, you act like it, instead of entering nerd rage over a rushed statement made on a forum. LTT, as a company, should make a proper, thought over official statement on the matter. GN, as a company, should seize the nerd rage and lead by an example.

[SimonShipperd]

Just now, jooroth18 said:

maybe you need to in order to get the word out about your product so you can generate hype and revenue.

I understand that a company would send out a prototype for press coverage. What I don't understand is apparently sending out the only prototype that you have that's good enough to further your development.

[Amaninacity]

3 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

That isn't what they meant. Usually poper journalistic practices means contacting LTT to get a comment on the situation as it can provide valuable context to the situation. Obviously you would still clearly state that the comment came from LTT but it would help provide a better overall picture and allow LTT to actually have a chance to give their side of a story. That is what it read like to me anyways. 

Yeah, this is important. One of the reasons that you do that is ethical (maintaining your neutrality and journalistic integrity requires you to include any defense or context the target of your piece might wish to provide) and the other part is legal ass-covering.

 

By not going to Linus for comment, Steve opened himself up to defamation claims. It might even clear the legal bar for defamation of a public figure precisely because he failed to maintain journalistic neutrality in his reporting.

 

Many of the claims in his video are valid, and I found Linus’ response pretty lacking. That said, Steve had a professional, ethical, and possibly legal (tort legal, not crime legal) obligation to seek comment before publishing his hit piece. Steve’s failure to seek comment in advance, ironically, shows the same out of his depth sloppiness he is (seemingly largely correctly) accusing LMG of with their accuracy issues.

[Cosmic Emotion]

Just now, PandaSasquatch said:

Or maybe Linus actually thought it was resolved? Come on, maybe chill on the rage for a bit.

I'm not raging. Honestly I'm more than happy the Billet situation was resolved. I just want the best for LMG so maybe I can become a fan again. I want the best for everybody to be honest, it's a human instinct.

[wanderingfool2]

5 minutes ago, harls said:

The first video he called out the mistakes on reviews and the Billet labs.  He could have possibly gotten some resolution on some of this had he contacted LMG.  The second video he flat out said he does't need to contact LMG because he knows they are wrong.  So he does not care if they have any evidence to the contrary. 

Get a grip with reality please and try to actually follow with GN said instead of flat out misquoting.

 

The general sentiment is that there isn't a need to get Linus' response or clarification when it's believed to be a systemic issue.  The fact is, people have been correcting LTT for a long  time and LTT's response is always "we'll do better" and proceed to fart around doing nothing.  From the first video, it is clear that GN at least had some communication with Billet in regards to this as well (who knows maybe it was GN who they were thinking of sending it to to test).

 

If you find unsafe levels of chlorine in your drinking water, the news isn't obligated to go to the water company to get things privately or even get the water companies response.

 

If you are calling into question someone's ETHICS, you cannot expect to get a straight answer out of them; and it's quite clear from Linus' response (and Billet's response to that) that Linus was full spin doctoring and gaslighting as though he is somehow the victim.

[TheProfosist]

3 minutes ago, iAxX said:

Yeah a few years ago I would've agreed with you but now...

They're investing $10m into a lab and staffing to do the same kind of reporting that GN does. Technical and factual. In Linus's own words he wants to test the accuracy of a company's marketing. That is literally what GN does. 

There are a million ways a conflict of interest could affect that. 

• Not testing the claims of a major manufacturer because you're buddy buddy
• Misrepresenting or misinterpreting data to benefit your favorite manufacturer
• Not including top contenders in your analysis so that your manufacturer comes out on top.

 

Lab wise I would argue that just because LTT is using data from the lab doesnt mean the lab is fully up and running. Maybe the reason they havnt started the website and channel is because they already know their data and processes are not where they need to be. Actually, I can nearly guarantee that's the case.

I could tell you a D15 isnt enough for a modern top end CPU. There's a reason the D15v2/D16 is going to be a thing. Also LTT themselves has shown dual 360 rads as not being enough to fully cool a 13900K at full tilt.

 

When it comes to conflict of interest LMG will never be away from it unless like GN they try not to take those sponsorship deals. At the size of LMG I dont see that being a possibility. Right now most of what GN has said is conjecture and proving a negative is near impossible. What Labs needs to do is get their data good and start setting a track record of what should be expected from here on out.

 

If they dont have good data dont use it. So many things seem to be getting cut to get the video out. Though its like that on so many big channels. The number of time I wish Donut Media would just finish a build properly. Its always well thats the time we had, onto then next thing to feed the algorithm.

[Player_One]

Sorry to say that but GN is right on that one!

[jooroth18]

Just now, IndustrialBananaBread said:

To be honest the fact this is kicking off after this has all come out, it looks more like LMG is quickly trying to fix the situation so they can say 'hey guys its all good now put down your pitchforks'. Don't get me wrong, it's good that something has happened, but the motivation to suddenly compensate them isn't great imo

I mean it does demonstrate that they are listening to some capacity. It would be far worse if they didnt try to make things right. We will just have to wait and see as to what they will do about the other issues GN has brought up. So far, its quite a poor response.

[ScoggsUK]

1 minute ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

I can grab the whole page where everyone thought that's what Linus has been saying. Page 69.

That's not grabbing the qoute where he lied. Qoute a post where Linus lied please. 

 

Quoting other people's interpretation is not a qoute.

[Wintyr]

9 minutes ago, ScoggsUK said:

Schadenfreude at its finest. Why are you even here?

I know they made an account today burn party watcher

[ColonelSupremePizza]

8 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

Heavily doubt this would ever happen. It would be so idiotic in so many levels. Linus messed up badly here, and isnt reacting correctly, but he isnt one to fire people.

No, but he should fire himself after fanning the flames and causing more damage to the brand and image of LMG. Just saying, he is still very much running the company and the CEO position is 1000000000000000000% honorary.

[Nucleosynthesis]

4 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

If losing 1 prototype can destroy your startup, perhaps your startup shouldn’t have been sending out prototypes half way around the world to be reviewed.

Are you serious right now?

 

I can't believe people are still defending Linus on this topic and on top of that attack GN and now even victim blaming Billet Labs.

 

This is not healthy. If you like Linus, you should not condone his insane respones or attack GN/Billet Labs. Instead, help him find his old self and motivate him to do the right thing!

[RichardBirch]

Comment removed - not conducive to discussion.

[zeroality]

1 minute ago, PandaSasquatch said:

Or maybe Linus actually thought it was resolved? Come on, maybe chill on the rage for a bit.

Yeah he definitely did when he said Steve should’ve reached out for a comment because he had reached out to billet and agreed to compensate them.. which does prove Linus is a time traveler since he reached out to billet 2 hours after the video and so if Steve had reached out to him he’d have gone back in time to inform Steve it was being resolved.

It all makes sense 

[Amaninacity]

Just now, SimonShipperd said:

I understand that a company would send out a prototype for press coverage. What I don't understand is apparently sending out the only prototype that you have that's good enough to further your development.

Linus giving it a thumbs up would have been worth millions. It’s a calculated gamble that paid off poorly.