Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[TheProfosist]

5 minutes ago, throwawayManMode said:

Clearly this has gotten too big for Linus to ignore on the WAN show right? If he tries to ignore this the chat is going to ROAST him...

Then you let them roast you. Better to keep your mouth shut than give people more ammunition. If anything it should just be a statement acknowledging what went on and a plan going forward. Maybe also something like he wont be making statements on topics like this going forward.

[Nucleosynthesis]

6 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

here's some journalistic integrity for you

gn states that billet labs was made aware around the 11th

 

while billets own statment here: claims it was the 10th:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/?

 

which is it ? given that steves video was posted on a monday as I have said before that one day difference matters 

so what we expected to trust somebody that can't even remember what day it was ?: 

thats how many a court case has been lost 

 

Don't let Linus of the hook. He is twisting and covering up. GN has a complete timeline including a response from Billet: 

 

 

Again this is not the Linus from 10 years ago. I am really dissapointed and I hope he sees the light afer a good night's sleep...

 

[WallacEngineering]

6 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

you can be perfectly happy just watching the videos without hanging out on the forum... check when I made this account? have watched the videos longer then that... look at my post count? yeah... I don't post here much... but this case is BAD... and needs to fixed... because I still like the channel and some of the videos... but I still think what they did is shite... and needs to be fixed...

so of course people sign up to voice their opinion here... you think you are the only one with the right for a voice in this? most of the post outside of a few LTT fanbois actually CARE and want LTT to do well and want them to FIX this F UP...

Okay then this comment has nothing to do with you then... Lol?

 

Also I never said anything about having more privilege or anything of the sort nor would I care. I'm just saying wow man look at all these people joining up just to say something in here it's actually insane...

[Wintyr]

has GN reached out to linus media group yet i mean they gave new egg a change even thought hey cucked people and GN they still gave them the option to responed in a ethical manner i would expect GN to do this same here unless they do have a resason beyond Journalism for this video

[Leksi T]

4 minutes ago, Calzz said:

No I think its best for them to get ahead of this, you will do more damage to your views/ reputation and whatever else by leaving it alone. Whats important is what the response is we need some sorrys we f up and this is what we are going to do moving forward to not let this happen again.

Agreed, there needs to be a response, and soon.  But WAN is not a good place for it, IMO.

 

EDIT: I also agree that there needs to be detail about how they are moving forward.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Leksi T
Clarification

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, IrishDiem said:

Translation: I forget that people have been discussing and disagreeing on the internet for since early dial-up days and think that calling someone a name is a skilled rebuttal of the point made. 

Wow this is passive aggressive

 

2 minutes ago, Thepyrodex said:

Do you have anything beyond 3rd grand insults and hate knocking around in that head of yours?  

This is aggressive

 

But I'd watch it 

Just now, Leksi T said:

But WAN is not a good place for it, IMO.

would twitter be better? No sorry, X

 

I think WAN would actually be a perfect place for it. Not a youtube video since that's all prepared

[nuffffsaid]

So a few things I would like to point out. 

 

1. LTT until you have tested the Billet cooler with a 3090 in the way the instructions conveyed to you that the cooler was meant to work, you can not say with a 100% certainty that the product was a failure. Even if there is a 1% chance that using the suggested setup they stated would change the outcome of the test then it is on you LTT to do the test exactly how it was supposed to be done and then make your conclusions or else you will be giving a testimony of information based on the wrong testing parameters and hence rendering said information at best misleading or at worst downright wrong. 

 

Given your verdict its fair to say Billets cooler good or bad (which by the way we do not know yet, since we currently don't have the sample anymore and hence no one else can independently verify the results gotten by LTT) will most likely be dead in the water on launch since a lot of the tech  community takes the "Gospel of Linus" at face value. 2 weeks ago it would have cost $500 dollars to get someone to test it with the right card and under the right conditions to come to any conclusions good or bad. Today on the other hand if the conclusions from the new testing are good rather than bad as expressed by the 4090 testing, it will cost a hell of a lot more than $500 dollars for testing, double and triple testing plus the PR to walk back the original content. In this case who is to bear the extra cost? LTT?

 

This review for all intents and purposes could have killed Billet as a cooling company, and somehow Linus thinks he has just sent them back to the drawing board. 

 

2. This is the part that I understand the least. Why "Auction Off" a prototype, a one of a kind that months of research and development has been poured into, after you have said you would return it multiple times?? Somehow Linus has not addressed this well enough at all. To fix this here is what might need to happen.

   a. The original Billet block needs to be gotten back and returned to Billet.

   b. If this has somehow gotten into the hands of Billets competition, and they reverse engineer it then LTT pays for Billets sunk cost, R&D, potential future profit and         so on.

   c. The best case scenario is the competition does not have the block then we can talk about returning the original and compensation for the negative publicity.

   d. The worst case scenario is the competition has it and this could become a lawsuit involving potential future value and profit lost based on wrongful testing and                  misinformation.

 

Again just like the review this could easily kill Billet as a startup cooler company, and somehow Linus does not get the reach of the "Gospel of Linus" is far and wide.

 

 

3. The general tone of the response has been to basically pass the buck. The last I remember in one of your videos you stated the buck stops at you. The correct tone should have been "We hear you, we appreciate the criticism, let us take some time to go over this step by step and come out with an appropriate response that is measured, fair and concise. This response strikes a way different tone than expected not unlike some of the Asus, Newegg or Nvidia responses that have gotten LTT  and the tech community riled up in the past.

 

LTT please fix this. No more off the cuff responses. Accept the criticism, take the time come up with a plan of action and then present it. At this point a lot of people are reeling from this response and given your interaction with some of the big tech companies this is far from what was expected. FIX IT!!

[perryckd]

4 hours ago, throwawayManMode said:

How many times are  you going to keep calling them that? You made your point, move on and go touch grass dude

 

never. I am calling out steve guerilla nexus for being a bad actor hiding behind "investigative" not! journalism.

 

Just look at his video title, every bit of the narrative is to throw LMG under the bus, to shape the outline that Linus is some evil heel turned CEO now. 

 

Where in fact, it is just a single issue about the waterblock, look instead of clarifying first with LMG, he chose to write another put down story against another youtuber to raise his standings. Come on, do you think Linus will 'cheat' for $700 bucks prototype? Obviously, there is some miscomm, some gaps, big companies often have this. For all we know, Linus is shielding his employees from this oversight. 

 

LMG has been around for so long, if they are THAT shady that guerillaNexus is painting them, we should hear more stories, and now is the best time for other 'small timer' that LMG "cheated" over the years, to make their sob stories.

 

Come on, GuerillaNexus, get to consolidation more shadey LMG report. Do your jesbus bit! 

[LinusTechLies]

25 minutes ago, MotherboardsInThePark said:

Unfortunately for him, this has already gone viral.

Yes but unfortunately people have tue memory span of goldfish this will soon be forgotten and he'll just continue doing what he's doing.

 

Clearly by his reply he doesn't think there's anything wrong here.

[Serinus]

It's not intentionally malicious, and GM doesn't make it seem that way. It's just reckless because they're going too fast.

 

It's a huge red flag in any company when the CEO is counting a few salaried employee hours in dollar amounts. If you're paying consulting rates, then yeah, you can worry about every 15 minute segment of time. When you're employing people full time, you really shouldn't be that granular about their time working for you. Even people who punch in and out every day usually don't have their activities closely tracked for every 15 minutes unless it's inherent to the business. Last I heard, waitresses don't clock out for smoke breaks and things like that.  An employer should pretty much never need to know when you're on the shitter.

 

I empathize. He's now responsible for keeping 120 people employed, so he's worried about the bottom line. But his comments make me think he's bitten off more than he can chew. Watching the bottom line at the expense of your product is how enshittification happens.

 

Linus needs to take the criticism to heart, allow his people to slow down and take more pride in their work. 25 videos a week is insane. It's entirely possible for him to just back up, say "my bad, here's what we'll do to fix it", and *actually* fix it. People want to like LTT. Just do the right thing and let them.

 

This is fixable. Please consider actually fixing it.

 

 

[Cosmic Emotion]

Just now, TheProfosist said:

Then you let them roast you. Better to keep your mouth shut than give people more ammunition. If anything it should just be a statement acknowledging what went on and a plan going forward. Maybe also something like he wont be making statements on topics like this going forward.

What? Are you Linus's wife? This blatantly states how he can, in your opinion, get away with all this. Is that the point or is making LMG a better place and company that actual thing we want? Get your priorities straight.

[jitteryzeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Thepyrodex said:

Do you have anything beyond 3rd grand insults and hate knocking around in that head of yours?  

Ot wasn’t an insult, I addressed exactly why I’m in here despite not being a viewer.

 

which is why I’m asking again:  I posted exactly why I’m here, did you miss it because the words were in a combination you’re not familiar with or did you hit the first line and fly into a rage?

[Legitsu]

4 minutes ago, Nucleosynthesis said:

Don't let Linus of the hook. He is twisting and covering up. GN has a complete timeline including a response from Billet: 

 

 

Again this is not the Linus from 10 years ago. I am really dissapointed and I hope he sees the light afer a good night's sleep...

 

so wait gn makes a video flubbs the timeline of events. by posting incorrect dates and not providing complete dates the first time

but hey he released a follow up video with correct dates 

 

AFTER hes already caused a shitstorm by intentionally leaving pieces out either by rushing or failure to communicate

 

again pot calling the kettle black.

 

 

[MotherboardsInThePark]

1 minute ago, LinusTechLies said:

Yes but unfortunately people have tue memory span of goldfish this will soon be forgotten and he'll just continue doing what he's doing.

 

Clearly by his reply he doesn't think there's anything wrong here.

Oh, this will be remembered for a while, don't you worry. I'll make sure of it. I'm disgusted by the person this guy has become.

[WyvrenSlayer]

17 minutes ago, filpo said:

continue in the official thread 

try not to make megathreads as it puts off the flow

 

And to the mods, yes I'm backseat moderating. Can't help it, I'm too fast 

Cool thanks, this is the first time I've posted here so ill keep that in mind!

[Calzz]

2 minutes ago, Leksi T said:

Agreed, there needs to be a response, and soon.  But WAN is not a good place for it, IMO.

 

EDIT: I also agree that there needs to be detail about how they are moving forward.

I just think WAN show is kinda the only really place for it, I think a video on the main channel will be best to really make it front and center that there owning up to it and really taking it serious but I think they wont want to do that so it really only leaves the WAN show

[dege13]

7 minutes ago, motomat86 said:

brand new shirt just launched at lttstore.com, new shirts and hoodies that say It Was Auctioned off, Trust us bro

[Guest]

Wow. I was a bit disappointed by what was reported but ok, mistakes happen (although selling stolen goods is… just wow…), but the response from Linus really is what makes me angry.

 

Apparently Linus is the poor person who we are supposed to be compassionate for.

You’ve certainly lost me as a (passive in the forum) but longtime viewer. Auctioning off stolen goods and then not even apologizing for that… someone should go to jail for this, and by someone I mean Linus.

[Drazil100]

5 minutes ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

OK Billet Labs' response (which I just saw, sorry if repost).

 

 

Shame on you. That's all I have to say.

 

Either the Billet Labs guys are too kind or you're in for some real trouble.

Don't applogize. This thread is moving too fast. No one is gonna go digging for the response on page 120 or wherever it is (clearly I'm not gonna go looking for the first reference). Posting the link again lets people jumping on at the end of the thread a chance to see it.

[Nucleosynthesis]

1 minute ago, TheProfosist said:

Then you let them roast you. Better to keep your mouth shut than give people more ammunition. If anything it should just be a statement acknowledging what went on and a plan going forward. Maybe also something like he wont be making statements on topics like this going forward.

 

Have you watched the GN response video? Linus is twisting and covering stuff up.

 

I think the right thing to do is to have a good look in the mirror and to adress this in full. I know Linus has it in him to do the right thing. 

[Reclus]

11 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

here's some journalistic integrity for you

gn states that billet labs was made aware around the 11th

 

while billets own statment here: claims it was the 10th:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/?

 

which is it ? given that steves video was posted on a monday as I have said before that one day difference matters 

so what we expected to trust somebody that can't even remember what day it was ?: 

thats how many a court case has been lost 

 

Until around August 11th...

Dude. Srsly stop.

 

[wanderingfool2]

7 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

gn states that billet labs was made aware around the 11th

 

while billets own statment here: claims it was the 10th:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/?

 

which is it ? given that steves video was posted on a monday as I have said before that one day difference matters 

so what we expected to trust somebody that can't even remember what day it was ?: 

thats how many a court case has been lost 

Both can be true.  Billet Labs is in UK, so the difference between 10th and 11th can happen; especially when talking about time zones.  If an email was sent at like 4 PM Vancouver time, that would be Aug 10 and Aug 11th...especially if it's looking at email threads which could include the time the receiver saw/replied to it.

[will0hlep]

1 minute ago, BlackSmokeDMax said:

It was a prototype based on the card they had (and the card they provided for testing, which LMG did not use), once they have their tech/design all ironed out, you think they wouldn't have made a version for the newer card?

Yes, they will make a version for the newer card, and that one will be worth testing properly.

 

Put it this way: say you have 3090 and $1000 to spend. Do you watercool the 3090, or do you buy a newer GPU? myself personnally, I'd buy the new GPU (in reality I'd just keep the cash) cause even without watercooling it, it will perform better than the older GPU.

 

As I said in my main comment, the message I thought was important from that video (and the message I felt they got accross) was that this idea might be a cool thing in a few years if they release it on a current GPU, but you shouldn't buy it now.

I also think the billet labs decussion is simply detracting from the important discussion GN has started, which in my mind is the rate of errors in LTT videos.

[Leksi T]

1 minute ago, filpo said:

Wow this is passive aggressive

 

This is aggressive

 

But I'd watch it 

would twitter be better? No sorry, X

 

I think WAN would actually be a perfect place for it. Not a youtube video since that's all prepared

In this case, a prepared response is what I want.  A video with everything laid bare, that everyone can point to and say 'this is what they're gonna do' and later 'they didn't' or hopefully 'they did'

[harls]

Just now, MotherboardsInThePark said:

Oh, this will be remembered for a while, don't you worry. I'll make sure of it.

I know I will not be watching GN anymore.  LMG needs to make things right on their end with Billet or I will stop watching them too.