Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Allan B]

I have been watching Linus for a very long time and GN for 3-4 years now, I am a huge fan of both of them and watch both their content regularly.  From the LTT side, my concern is around the direction of LTT Labs, moving forward the plan is to have all this data regarding keyboards, PSUs etc.. If the data cant be trusted then what is the point of the labs?  I was looking forward to having a database to help pick which budget PSU I could get for example, now I am not sure I could trust the data if\when it came out.  Was it rushed, was it checked? 

 

I am disappointed in how this is turning out as being a big fan of both and I don't want to have to pick sides.  It feels like my 2 best tech friends are fighting.   I truly believe Steve is bringing this up with the hopes of making things better, raising the bar for tech reviewers.  I think Linus needs to not take it personally as it is an LTT issue and talk about what the company (not him) is doing to improve.  

[Nucleosynthesis]

1 minute ago, kokosnh said:

linus have to have somebody (like luck) stop hem from these fast response, it's not the first time, where in my opinion, his reaction/comments are unnecessarily rushed, and it's not making it any better, quite the opposite really...
He should just sleep with it for couple days, talk to people, check everything from top to bottom couple times, and only then respond. 
 

Agreed, he is damaging himself and the brand - It's really hard to like him when he acts like this.

 

I think the cover up and twisting in his response regarding Billet Labs are the worst part.... 

 

I am genuinely sad. 

[rafalxyz]

First time posting here.

 

LTT was a channel that got me into computers, it's a job, a hobby, a way of life for me, and it all began with watching LTT at the beginning of covid. Thank you very much for that.

 

Linus, I sincerely hope something changes and that stupid response isn't all you can do. There's still a lot of people to inspire and this half assed content isn't the way to do so.

 

You can still make money and go back to making videos that dont have so many STUPID AVOIDABLE MISTAKES. The GN vid perfectly captured my feelings

 

Compare LTT/SC content between 2020 and now. Night and day

[Thepyrodex]

1 minute ago, MotherboardsInThePark said:

Whatever you say, dear. Feel free to quote me again and have the last word. Just know that you're 100% a moron.

awww, sorry, guess I hurt your feeling by pointing out how childish you are acting.  Your dissatisfaction as a non consumer of his media or products pretty much has the same effect as a vegan being mad at McDonalds.  None, as you are not the target audience.  Why do so many people not understand that?

[MotherboardsInThePark]

1 minute ago, Legitsu said:

here's some journalistic integrity for you

gn states that billet labs was made aware around the 11th

 

while billets own statment here: claims it was the 10th:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/?

 

which is it ? given that steves video was posted on a monday as I have said before that one day difference matters 

so what we expected to trust somebody that can't even remember what day it was ?: 

thats how many a court case has been lost 

 

Why do you keep blaming the victim you psychopath? Why would a tiny startup lie about this after being bullied by a huge corporation? Use your damn brain.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

2 minutes ago, will0hlep said:

The billet labs video and decision Linus made on retesting it makes complete sense to me and I don't really understand the criticism. If it costs $800 and can only cool last generations GPU, then no one should be buying it.

 

It was a prototype based on the card they had (and the card they provided for testing, which LMG did not use), once they have their tech/design all ironed out, you think they wouldn't have made a version for the newer card?

[Calzz]

Just now, Leksi T said:

Personally, I hope this doesn't get discussed on the WAN show until after this dies down.  Hopefully it's responded to shorter-term in a more formal fashion like a video.  This is past a couple of dudes talking about things.

No I think its best for them to get ahead of this, you will do more damage to your views/ reputation and whatever else by leaving it alone. Whats important is what the response is we need some sorrys we f up and this is what we are going to do moving forward to not let this happen again.

[motomat86]

brand new shirt just launched at lttstore.com, new shirts and hoodies that say It Was Auctioned off, Trust us bro

[LogicalDrm]

*** Thread locked ***

 

Please keep the discussion about the situation in megathread.

[K4shira]

22 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

Real journalists reach out for comment regardless of whether or not it impacts the viability of their story, that's journalism and you're putting words in Linus's mouth with the whole lawyer Comment. in the history of the history of LMG not once has he ever ever gotten a lawyer involved that I am aware of. He generally owns up to his mistakes and handles them despite being attacked on all sides if there was ever a time where Linus or Taryn should be reaching for the legal option, it's now because this is basically slander because the difference between slander and a newspiece is that a newspiece you reach out for comment with slander you don't

That is incorrect. There are valid reasons for journalists not asking for comments and this exact case is one of those reasons...

Quote

the newspaper is not under a duty to contact every person involved in every story they write.In fact, there are several reasons why they might not, for example:

• a person’s comments may already be in the public domain
• telling the person prior to publication may have an impact on the story

 

Regarding the whole slander thing you are very mistaken about the definition of slander and you should look up what constitutes slander/libel/defamation. It is not defamation if the allegations are true. And it's the same if the person believed them to be true and had valid reason to do so. Billet Labs telling GN this directly is more than enough of a reason for GN to belive this to be true. And most importantly -> Linus already confirmed it is true 

[Legitsu]

2 minutes ago, dege13 said:

 

More on the timeline in the latest GN video.

 

so we just gonna ignore that he flubbed the timeline in the inital video. 

 

again for somebody riding a top a 27 foot tall horse seems like a no brainer thing to check.

 

 

[ayysub]

5 minutes ago, Hydra_20 said:

Not really. LTT has been entertainment focused from day 1, their content and Linus has been very clear about that, the labs project is the first time they've shifted away from that. I've never based a purchasing decision on LTT, I go to other more factual and data driven channels for that. I think you're in the minority if you missed that. 

 

LTT has a lot of ground to cover in data accuracy. As a data analyst I hate LTT graphs and methodologies, they frankly suck. I remember watching the billet cooler video and felt like they wasted my time because they didn't even test the cooler as it was intended to. 

 

If LTT wants to be taken seriously for their Labs effort they need to fix their data issues sooner rather than later.

lol this is like when news organizations in the USA state they are "entertainment" when they get sued for libel. i along with all of my friends used LTT reviews or informative videos to make purchasing decisions. 

[jitteryzeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Thepyrodex said:

"I'm angry about someone I don't even watch anymore!"

 

really?  why do you WANT to be angry?  because you are actively seeking it out if you came here just to anger post.  that's not healthy.

Do you have trouble reading or comprehending?

[coopa]

Just now, smcoakley said:

Yes, and? Saying how he feels about the situation doesn't necessarily follow that he's taking it as a personal attack. I'm just not seeing the logical "if-then" bridge that you're making.

The hurt/sad/discouraged language is a deflect from the fact that Linus is not actually acknowledging the criticism of GN beyond a token statement and is portraying himself as the victim. 

Let me bullet point Linus' statement, my summarization:

• I'm not going to publicly talk about this on the WAN show or anything. I've commented properly.
• Steve should have given me the right to reply in his original video (despite Linus' reply being awful and evidence on how said reply wouldn't have changed anything). (Hurt = taking it personally)
• We have some growing pains (acknowledging errors occur, blame on growth, no specific acknowledgement of specific issues or manner to improve). 
• We know not perfect, hearts on our sleeve, "sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing" (we're being transparent, people are bad for pointing out errors and omissions in our content, we are the victim). Also dismisses spec sheet errors as irrelevant and ignores inaccurate test issues raised by GN.
• We disagree with the Billet labs thing... not only did we not test it badly (it was on a GPU the monoblock was never designed to fit properly), it's actually IMPOSSIBLE to perfectly test it.... okay, perfection is unknowable, but he could have tested it on the proper GPU.
• Even if it did perform well when tested properly, it "still wouldn't make sense to buy" (objectively testing properly is pointless, accept garbage testing procedures, just trust me bro).
• Halfhearted apology comparing this to a supercar so accuracy is irrelevant (if accuracy is irrelevant, why review the product at all? Hiding behind "it's just entertainment bro" is not an excuse).
• "Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone" (we're the victim, we're being painted in a bad light)
• "It saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this" (we're the victims)
• "Will the "it was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach" it's been disheartening seeing how many people are willing to jump on us here"

 

Linus effectively ignored most of the criticism, mentioned repeatedly how he was disappointed/sad/hurt, acknowledged he has no plans to talk about it beyond this forum post/thread, gave excuse after excuse about how they trashed Billet's product with an inaccurate test and refused to re-test it when this was pointed out, ignored all of the points on how there's "growing pains" while not acknowledging specific criticisms beyond Billet or any plans to improve...

The reply is Linus' ego. He feels aggreived here. There's some token apologies to the community, none of which feel genuine. 

[Hezkezl]

4 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

here's some journalistic integrity for you

gn states that billet labs was made aware around the 11th

 

while billets own statment here: claims it was the 10th:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/?

 

which is it ? given that steves video was posted on a monday as I have said before that one day difference matters 

so what we expected to trust somebody that can't even remember what day it was ?: 

thats how many a court case has been lost 

 

In the follow-up video, GN also points out that it was also the 10th. They showed the correct date. They showed the entire correct timeline.

 

This is the court of public opinion, not an actual court. You nitpicking over one day's difference and COMPLETELY IGNORING THE REST OF WHAT'S GOING ON isn't going to actually change anything, other than making you seem like a pedant.

 

[Drazil100]

10 minutes ago, throwawayManMode said:

Clearly this has gotten too big for Linus to ignore on the WAN show right? If he tries to ignore this the chat is going to ROAST him...

Idk, he managed to ignore the whole former employee coming out about how LMG is a terrible place to work on reddit a while back, though that one there were legal reasons why he couldn't talk about it. I would not be surprised if we got another one of those wan shows where he cheekily references the drama and about how bad his week has been without actually bringing it up.

Edit:
The reason he couldn't talk about the former employee incident is telling an employee why they were let go can open him up to getting sued which he mentioned in an entirely different wan show. 

[filpo]

5 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

so we just gonna ignore that he flubbed the timeline in the inital video. 

 

again for somebody riding a top a 27 foot horse seems like a no brainer thing to check.

 

 

OH NO, HE FLUBBED THE TIMELINE! 

TO THE LIONS HE GOES

 

Wait, wtf does 'flubbed' even mean

[IrishDiem]

17 minutes ago, InvaderMig said:

Translation:  I don't like how he said the things he said, so I'm going to disregard them and keep being a weird parasocial fanboy. 

Translation: I forget that people have been discussing and disagreeing on the internet for since early dial-up days and think that calling someone a name is a skilled rebuttal of the point made. 

[Calzz]

Just now, Legitsu said:

so we just gonna ignore that he flubbed the timeline in the inital video. 

 

again for somebody riding a top a 27 foot horse seems like a no brainer thing to check.

 

 

Yes he made a mistake one time it happens for example LTT's videos have a lot of mistakes as we all make them so whats your point? the thing is that you minimize them.

[VisibleXela]

1 minute ago, ScoggsUK said:

To be fair, your correct he doesn't say its been sold. But neither can he claim that its been sold at the point. He infers and thus should have reached out.

 

To your second point, I don't really get the point of this. I'm not apportioning blame to any one side. All I've said is some of the orginal GN video is based on facts availible at the time and some of it isn't and would warrant a right of reply. 

If a video is based on "facts available at the time" then it is still based on facts, not conjecture. What Steve does or does not infer within the confines of his own brain is immaterial to me and makes no difference.

 

My point was what happened to the block was immaterial. It does not matter if someone actually has it in their hands or if it's in a trash can somewhere. That's bad either way.

 

We know LMG had it, we know they were responsible for it, and we know they no longer have it anymore. We knew those facts at the time. If LMG was able to respond prior to the video going up and was able to clarify and say "actually, we never gave it to anyone. we weren't careful with it and an employee stole it" (for the uninitiated: this absolutely never happened, it's a hypothetical) then that wouldn't change anything at all, they're still in the wrong. They still shouldn't have put it up for auction, they still should have given it back forever ago, and they sure as shit should have compensated Billet for it well before the GN video went up.

 

GN reported the facts available at the time, and no statement or response from LMG could have or would have changed things at the time, beyond giving Linus a chance to quietly sweep things under the rug in lieu of making things right.

[Cosmic Emotion]

OK Billet Labs' response (which I just saw, sorry if repost).

 

Quote

Regarding LTT, we are simply going to state the relevant facts:

On 10th August, we were told by LTT via email that the block had been sold at auction. There was no apology.

We replied on 10th August within 30 minutes, telling LTT that this wasn't okay, and that this was a £XXXX prototype, and we asked if they planned to reimburse us at all.

We received no reply and no offer of payment until 2 hours after the Gamers Nexus video went live on 14th August, at which point Linus himself emailed us directly.

 

Shame on you. That's all I have to say.

 

Quote

The exact monetary value of the prototype was offered as reimbursement. We have not received, nor have we asked for any other form of compensation.

Either the Billet Labs guys are too kind or you're in for some real trouble.

[Thepyrodex]

Just now, jitteryzeitgeist said:

Do you have trouble reading or comprehending?

Do you have anything beyond 3rd grand insults and hate knocking around in that head of yours?  

[Leksi T]

2 minutes ago, ColonelSupremePizza said:

I disagree on it being an attack, although that's how you see it.

 

Linus made a response that was beyond lackluster, showed he refuses to take responsibility, can't understand that he is literally in the wrong despite trying to make it a positive spin, does the whole "woe is me" thing that he's a "real person" like an angsty teen, and didn't address the other issues in the video.

 

GN's video was a response to Linus' statement. That's it. Whether Linus put on his big boy pants and took responsibility like an adult, or threw a tantrum because his internet friend didn't call him before reporting on very real issues that affect consumers, they were going to address it. You view it as an attack because they ripped it apart, as it rightly deserved, but you would likely view it as sucking up to Linus if his actual statement wasn't childish and was worth praising.

 

Unless Linus has a complete meltdown, I doubt we'll see another video on this. Linus should have taken the extremely valid, on point, and factual criticism like a man. He didn't, so we'll see him rant about it on the WAN show like a child, but unless Linus goes nuclear on Steve because his internet friend reported on objective inaccuracies and scummy behavior, I doubt there will be another video.

I don't even know if I think it's an attack. But it could easily be seen as such, especially from LMG's standpoint.  Like Jay said on Twitter, I hope they don't, I really hope. But they might.

 

And yeah, the chances of a video are slim.  I can imagine LMG would worry about the effect on YouTube's analytics, which wouldn't be entirely unfounded.  But IMO, they should take the hit and do it. It would benefit them alot more in the long run.  And as I've said already, I really think this should stay off WAN, hopefully at least the next one.

[LinusTechLies]

12 minutes ago, joaopt said:

 

and has the most amount of shills to be on his side.

Yeah the perfect place to play the victim because he knows he will have the majority of his fanboys eating out of his hand. 

 

Thats why he's radio silent on all his other platform's.

[TheProfosist]

5 minutes ago, throwawayManMode said:

Clearly this has gotten too big for Linus to ignore on the WAN show right? If he tries to ignore this the chat is going to ROAST him...

Then you let them roast you. Better to keep your mouth shut than give people more ammunition. If anything it should just be a statement acknowledging what went on and a plan going forward. Maybe also something like he wont be making statements on topics like this going forward.