Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[WereCat]

Just now, treestain said:

If the guy in labs was wrong, there could've been plenty of other ways to deal with it rather than pouring gasoline and lighting a match at ones community. This isn't simply "taking shots."

Like what for example? If somebody with such a big outreach as LMG puts your credibility in jeopardy because of their own wrong assumptions whether intentionally or unintentionally, you let it slide?

And as I mentioned earlier, I agree they should reach out to each other but neither LMG and then neither GN did so it does not really matter in the end. At least we have a fun nifty topic on our hands and I don't think it's harmful to either of GN, LMG, etc... they can actually use this community cry out as a stepping stone for improvement now if they are willing to reflect on how they did/do stuff.

[Alex90uk]

I think the pedestal and standard people are expecting from an independent news outlet built from scratch is quite high here and the clear joy in their failure is also quite transparent from many.

 

Everyone is talking like they know, and speaking like they are paragons. 

 

GN could have had more professional courtesy, and journalist should probably want as much context as possible, as without context, the narrative can be directed/influenced or manipulated to something more sensational easier. It may have suited GN to have less context for this particular video as they may have felt slighted for some LTT employee faux pas, and they may enjoy the additional viewership of this "drama" (intentional or not) just like the classic iDubbz content police videos did. But who knows, I believe GN feel and is convinced that they have done the "right" thing and have integrity. That's different to doing the right thing and having integrity though.

 

LS has stepped down as CEO, maybe due to feeling overwhelmed after identifying these workflow issues and wanting to stay focused on the vision of the companies progression, and may have sought to bring in expertise he feels would rectify these issues.

 

Or maybe all of this is wrong.

 

The truth is probably some greyer area in the middle and I think that most people commenting are acting gross.

 

I would just like to see well-produced tech-themed videos and it would be nice if this is done accurately and ethically with some good personality presenting it, I will have some patience and absorb the facts as they are presented. I think that both media outlets may have made some mistakes here, and that's OK, I like being able to google review for "insert tech product here" and having a variety of sources to choose from and agree with. As a metaphor to help some people understand this viewpoint; most people commenting here probably eat meat and don't care about the animal welfare standards, or wear clothes made in sweat-shops, so just chill out and think about your own hypocrisy and position before you attack others. If LTT where made "Bankrupt" or "cancelled" what about the nearly 100 people who work for him, are they ALL "guilty" and "evil" too? What about the 25+ less videos being made on random products that I can only find on the verges "top 10" lists else-wise? 

 

I dunno, it's nice to be nice, and a lot of you aren't.

[MotherboardsInThePark]

1 minute ago, Shlouski said:

Steve knows 100% he is going to cause drama and create rifts in the community with this video, he has caused hostility, alienation and rifts to form between the community and also between himself and Linus, this is not conducive of change, so is he really trying to help LTT?

 

If I was Steve, I would definitely want there to be a rift between me and this clown.

 

Whatever his motives were, the points he made are valid. That's all that matters.

[Alex T88]

1 minute ago, FUTDomi said:

There is absolutely nothing about ethics and morals here, at all.

It's all about ethics and morals as far as I am concerned. They could not care less about Billet Labs, a small startup, that they basically f-ed up and gave them a major setback. They only cared of paying them off to avoid a potential legal mess, as I already said and to cover their backs. Legally, it's all peachy. Morally and ethically... well, you can be the judge of that.

[Texbobcat]

6 minutes ago, FUTDomi said:

What is there to be said? "Only" the small detail that they did already deal with the issue and reached an agreement to compensate them for the fuck up? Knowing this changes a lot the narrative.

 

But they didn't really, maybe they replaced the prototype, but the startup lost over a month and a half worth of work and cannot continue to test or show off their product until Linus sends the funds so that they can create a new unit. And even outside of that yeah linus replaced the prototype but how does that fix the irreplicable damage that linus did to their name by creating a bad review that didn't explain the purpose of the cooler instead calling dumb and testing it wrong.

[VeryScary]

4 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It is though when their boss, has a vested interest; and the channel it's posted on is owned by them.

 

Imagine this, do you think the employee would last very long, or be allowed to continue being on camera if they consistently lets say reviewed Framework laptops and came to a conclusion it was garbage?  Or do you think they would likely be pulled and replaced by someone else.

 

1. The last time Framework was brought up (Vietnam if I'm remembering correctly) Linus himself pointed out the flaws in front of the owner of Framework. 

 

2. At the company that literally allowed their employees to make and upload an entire video complaining about the boss/company for millions of viewers to see and use it as ammo to criticize? Yes, that employee would be fine.

[maplepants]

Just now, jamaniek said:

Not going to disregard "he did it for a drama" thing completely but consider this- he made a ton of valid points backed up by proof. He turned of monetization on the video and didn't put any sponsor spots. And lastly, out of the ordinary high number of views in just one video can actually hurt a channel in terms of a appealing to YouTube gods. Linus mentioned it a couple of times on WAN Show.

Turning off the monetization, talking about it in the video, talking about it in the description, and pinning a comment mentioning that are actually all part of GN's attempts to link the current drama with the drama they tried to start last year. 

 

And he didn't put a sponsor in the video because he can't have the "Noctua sponsorships make LMG videos biased" section prefaced by "Before that, this video's brought to you by Be Quiet!". 

[TheNamesKyle]

I have watched ltt for years, never crossed my mind there would be so many mistakes in an ltt review.

 

I don't follow tech hardware like I used to but when I do need to know about some new hardware ltt was my go to. Very caught of guard by this whole situation.

 

I don't know, I'm just throwing out my casual ltt enjoyer opinion but I really think if I come back to ltt's reviews is gonna hinge on ltt's reply. As it stands it seems I've probably been mislead/misinformed quite often. 

[TheProfosist]

19 minutes ago, maartendc said:

The problem with their testing errors seems to be that LTT is a big operation. I imagine it goes like this:

- one guy does the testing

- another guy writes the script / is on camera

- another guy does the graph making

- another guy does the editing

- another guy does the uploading / correcting on screen...

 

An error such as in the 4090 review would have been easily caught by a smaller operation, with one person doing all these tasks themselves. There would be 3 instances in which you would go like "hold on a minute, this doesn't seem right".

 

So it sounds like they need to:

- have more stringent quality control in place for testing in the first place

- If an error is found, they need to be willing to retest, not use the result, re-record a video, or take a video down. Right now they don't seem willing to do any of these things.

Correct, and for efficiencies sake its got to be split up that way. I can also guess there's probably more than one person with their hand on at each step. LMG cant just effectively shut down when a new GPU or CPU comes out like many smaller outfits do.

Biggest issue is using data before the process is ready to be used. However I know from experience if its the only data you've got, you've gotta use it. The process for labs is still developing (lacking air conditioning means that environmental chamber is running round the clock). I have a feeling less effort has been put into checks and balances on the data since they dont yet have the data they really want. Its a tricky balance and as you get bigger it gets harder. There's no way a since person can know everything about a project anymore.

[bizzehdee]

Just now, lw88 said:

The announcement of labs was made as a work in progress that needed to be treated as such. Then videos since have used bad information and testing as though it made them authority on the subject. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Labs stopped being a "work in progress" that are allowed to make such major mistakes, when the main channel started using their data as justification for their opinions that they broadcast to millions of people.

[bandainamcofan]

3 minutes ago, maplepants said:

Turning off the monetization, talking about it in the video, talking about it in the description, and pinning a comment mentioning that are actually all part of GN's attempts to link the current drama with the drama they tried to start last year. 

You quite literally can't know that to a certainty unless you can read his mind.

[maplepants]

10 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

For the millionth time, the video was made in response to public statements. GN was not and is not obligated to ask for comment and not doing so here would be unlikely to be considered a violation of journalist ethics. To claim otherwise is simply false.

"I don't have to verify the story, because it was *only* based on public statements" is pretty funny. But honestly, who cares about a "violation of journalistic ethics" when what we're talking about here is a YouTube drama video. 

 

I'm not trying to onboard a new reporter at La Monde here, I'm just talking about what choices GN made to make their drama video as juicy as possible. 

[dustypaws]

12 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

Linus being tone deaf as ever...

 

It's not about Steve being butt hurt...it's about LTT cranking out false reviews and graphs en masse, just to be first to the party and take the cake on the cost of other channels who might do better and more thorough job at this...

 

It really becomes annoying now how Linus thinks he has to tackle the who entire review space just by volume and not by quality... (not to mention the crankiness and entitlement on WAN when somebody disagrees with his opinion...)

[Ottoman420]

4 minutes ago, maplepants said:

Turning off the monetization, talking about it in the video, talking about it in the description, and pinning a comment mentioning that are actually all part of GN's attempts to link the current drama with the drama they tried to start last year. 

 

And he didn't put a sponsor in the video because he can't have the "Noctua sponsorships make LMG videos biased" section prefaced by "Before that, this video's brought to you by Be Quiet!". 

Being sponsored to review for someone isnt the same as collaborating on a products together or doing both hand in hand.

 

Steve hasnt got any branding attached to anyone hes had countless offers to put his name on brands but he chooses not to because he has said he feels it would potentially be seen as a conflict of interest

 

He could have sponsored the video if he wanted..he chose not to be a hypocrite based on his previous comments.

[Dom1252]

3 minutes ago, bizzehdee said:

Labs stopped being a "work in progress" that are allowed to make such major mistakes, when the main channel started using their data as justification for their opinions that they broadcast to millions of people.

exactly, if LTT excuse for labs misleading, wrong (intentionally or not) and misinterpreted data is "but labs can't do good data yet" then why the heck do they publish it as such? 

[DaemonWasTaken]

2 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

You quite literally can't know that to a certainty unless you can read his mind.

Like y'know... Steve did.... with the Luke "segments"...

[bandainamcofan]

1 minute ago, maplepants said:

"I don't have to verify the story, because it was *only* based on public statements" is pretty funny. But honestly, who cares about a "violation of journalistic ethics" when what we're talking about here is a YouTube drama video. 

 

I'm not trying to onboard a new reporter at La Monde here, I'm just talking about what choices GN made to make their drama video as juicy as possible. 

If the facts were wrong then it should be simple to point out where they were wrong. You are ascribing a motive to GN as if it were fact that you can't possibly verify while claiming GN didn't verify facts.

[WereCat]

2 minutes ago, maplepants said:

Turning off the monetization, talking about it in the video, talking about it in the description, and pinning a comment mentioning that are actually all part of GN's attempts to link the current drama with the drama they tried to start last year. 

 

And he didn't put a sponsor in the video because he can't have the "Noctua sponsorships make LMG videos biased" section prefaced by "Before that, this video's brought to you by Be Quiet!". 

The video you linked is one of their HW News format which always has sponsor. The video has other things in it that has nothing to do with LMG like AMD new stuff, Intel Arc new stuff, etc... Also the way they are reporting and talking about the LMG warranty concerns is different.

 

The video we discuss here is solely addressing the LMG situation and it's also a very different video format and is using different language as well.

 

You're trying to connect dots there but I don't think you're on a right path.

[ConcernedCitizen]

12 hours ago, LinusTech said:

could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication...

Is the charity donation tax deductible?

[FUTDomi]

Just now, bandainamcofan said:

If the facts were wrong then it should be simple to point out where they were wrong. You are ascribing a motive to GN as if it were fact that you can't possibly verify while claiming GN didn't verify facts.

Show me when has Linus reviewed a laptop since the "conflict of interests" for example.

[DaemonWasTaken]

11 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

If the facts were wrong then it should be simple to point out where they were wrong. You are ascribing a motive to GN as if it were fact that you can't possibly verify while claiming GN didn't verify facts.

Fact verification by Steve: "Luke seems to disagree based on his facial expressions, therefore even Luke disagrees"

[Empyreal]

10 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

Steve knows 100% he is going to cause drama and create rifts in the community with this video, he has caused hostility, alienation and rifts to form between the community and also between himself and Linus, this is not conducive of change, so is he really trying to help LTT?

 

 

I'm glad Steve made the video because as a LTT viewer for almost a decade, I want to know if I'm consuming inaccurate information. Furthermore, as a LTT viewer, I do not want Linus straying off the path that he claims to be proud of, which is an independent reliable tech reviewer. I doubt any fan of Linus would want to see LMG crash and burn.

 

If Steve did this behind the door with Linus, I would view that as irresponsible because as a long time viewer (and someone who've spend quite a sum on lttstore), I would like to be informed about such situation. I see this debacle as a successful attempt of a friend (Steve) telling Linus that "Hey bro, you're steering off course. Open your eyes before it's too late".

[Dom1252]

2 minutes ago, ConcernedCitizen said:

Is the charity donation tax deductible?

idk if it is in canada, but if it's like where I live, yes, LTT indirectly made money out of it in this way too (besides for obvious publicity stunt) 

[Blademaster91]

4 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

You quite literally can't know that to a certainty unless you can read his mind.

Well you can't convince LTT fans to understand that, people still seem to want to defend Linus on this and deflect onto GN, people are so concerned with GN not asking first are missing the whole point of LMG not having not having any journalistic integrity at all when they take shots at other channels without asking for comment and make up false claims of benchmark results.

[TheProfosist]

3 minutes ago, bizzehdee said:

Labs stopped being a "work in progress" that are allowed to make such major mistakes, when the main channel started using their data as justification for their opinions that they broadcast to millions of people.

From talking directly to those in charge it is very much still a work in progress, but at some point you've got to produce something and make something with what you have. You may not thoroughly optimize things if you know they're just going to change. The realities of working at company and developing and implementing processes and procedures.

 

Its kinda like how my desk is setup in the basement like a mess so I can get work done still when I have a mostly finished office upstairs that I cant wait to move into *SoonTM