Xbox Is Now the First Carbon Aware Console, Update Rolling Out to Everyone Soon

Stahlmann · January 31, 2023

It's absolutely astonishing that a purely positive change that allows people to save money on electricity gets any kind of pushback. Like, WTF? Most people that complain about this probably don't have to pay their own power bill.

And if this is about Microsoft forcing an update to their console: Have you people been paying attention to the last 10 years? That's how it works. Wanna play online? You gotta have the most current firmware.

Commodus · January 31, 2023

5 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

It's absolutely astonishing that a purely positive change that allows people to save money on electricity gets any kind of pushback. Like, WTF? Most people that complain about this probably don't have to pay their own power bill.

And if this is about Microsoft forcing an update to their console: Have you people been paying attention to the last 10 years? That's how it works. Wanna play online? You gotta have the most current firmware.

Hate to say it, but some of this stems from certain political factions telling people they should be outraged at pro-environment measures. How dare a company acknowledge that its product behavior can play a role in energy use and emissions? Like the folks who rail against gas car sales bans that won't take effect for another 12 years... effectively, they've been told to resist change at all costs, particularly when it's positive.

It's also hilarious to see people act as if companies can't do more than one thing at a time. Yes, Microsoft should reduce the carbon footprint of its production lines and offices, but it can do that while making environmentally friendly changes on customers' devices. We're not going to meaningfully limit human-made climate change if we refuse to take any responsibility of our own.

YellowJersey · February 1, 2023

*looks at OP*

darknessblade · February 1, 2023

6 hours ago, YellowJersey said:

*looks at OP*

It actually proves one of my many points, I expressed a lot before, not just in this topic.

People here don't have a inkling idea what proper Consumer protection is. and love to get screwed over by big-tech.

Arika · February 1, 2023

14 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

People here don't have a inkling idea what proper Consumer protection is. and love to get screwed over by big-tech.

this update still has exactly 0 to do with consumer protection, nothing in this update is bad for consumers so there is nothing to protect, all you're focusing on is some made up future where this update means MS can decide to turn off your console. There has been nothing in this specific update that should have caused the absolute insane conclusion you have arrived at that any other previous update couldn't have. you have dived so far off the deep end that you forgot where you leapt from.

HenrySalayne · February 1, 2023

8 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

It actually proves one of my many points, I expressed a lot before, not just in this topic.

People here don't have a inkling idea what proper Consumer protection is. and love to get screwed over by big-tech.

That you even have the audacity to complain about this change is infuriating! And calling it consumer protection in vain is even worse.

Microsoft did not change the console, they just changed a default setting. You still can do whatever you like.
This change does not flush money into Microsoft's pockets, it actually saves money for their costumers!
If you want to blame Microsoft: they should have done it sooner.

The only valid complaint about this story is: why did it take so long? Your outrage is just complete BS.

Kisai · February 1, 2023

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

It actually proves one of my many points, I expressed a lot before, not just in this topic.

People here don't have a inkling idea what proper Consumer protection is. and love to get screwed over by big-tech.

Proper Consumer protection is when you bring in your brand new car to be serviced by the dealership, and they charge you $1000 for an oil change that realistically only cost $10 + 2 hours of labor (or about $70.) Any dealership or third party garage can do an oil change, for any non-EV vehicle. There's nothing fancy about draining and replacing oil.

Consumer protection when it comes to software, is about the software not removing functionality and ransoming it back.

darknessblade · February 1, 2023

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

That you even have the audacity to complain about this change is infuriating! And calling it consumer protection in vain is even worse.

Microsoft did not change the console, they just changed a default setting. You still can do whatever you like.

This change does not flush money into Microsoft's pockets, it actually saves money for their costumers!

If you want to blame Microsoft: they should have done it sooner.

The only valid complaint about this story is: why did it take so long? Your outrage is just complete BS.

And that is the very problem they Change a setting YOU the user did not enable by default.

Are you not gonna complain about apple slowing down older Iphones?

Since what Microsoft is doing Falls under the same Catagory:.changing settings without the users consent, claiming its better for the user if we [microsoft] do it this way.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/16/claim-for-750m-against-apple-launched-alleging-battery-throttling#:~:text=Apple acknowledged the throttling almost,the performance of a battery.

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

this update still has exactly 0 to do with consumer protection, nothing in this update is bad for consumers so there is nothing to protect, all you're focusing on is some made up future where this update means MS can decide to turn off your console. There has been nothing in this specific update that should have caused the absolute insane conclusion you have arrived at that any other previous update couldn't have. you have dived so far off the deep end that you forgot where you leapt from.

Incorrect: Microsoft does something without the consent of the user. so it would fall under consumer protection.

17 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Proper Consumer protection is when you bring in your brand new car to be serviced by the dealership, and they charge you $1000 for an oil change that realistically only cost $10 + 2 hours of labor (or about $70.) Any dealership or third party garage can do an oil change, for any non-EV vehicle. There's nothing fancy about draining and replacing oil.

Consumer protection when it comes to software, is about the software not removing functionality and ransoming it back.

Are you talking from a American perspective or from a European perspective?

Since there is a clear difference in what would fall under Consumer Protection in both regions.

Not forgetting Just look at the right to repair act in NY. this act got botched trough ~~BRIBEING~~ Lobbying by large companies.

This is a clear indicator for what standard of consumer protection you have in America.

Since Companies can just ~~BRIBE~~ Lobby a law in or out of existence.

leadeater · February 1, 2023

32 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

And that is the very problem they Change a setting YOU the user did not enable by default.

Settings and other configurations are changed all the time with updates to Xbox, PlayStation, Windows, Mac, Linux etc. This update hasn't changed the situation or made it any more present. The sad thing is I know why you are complaining about it but that reason bears no place mentioning here.

Your consumer protection hand waives simply don't apply here, as told to you by someone in a country with some of the strongest consumer protection laws.

Software updates like this have never been a consumer protection issue.

HenrySalayne · February 1, 2023

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

And that is the very problem they Change a setting YOU the user did not enable by default.

"by default" means it was set by the manufacturer of the device. If you - "the user" - change it, then it's a custom setting. You cannot enable anything by default.

Still, after the update, you can set the setting to your liking (as before). Imagine that!

It was a pure coincidence it was set to your preferred choice before. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

Are you not gonna complain about apple slowing down older Iphones?

Since what Microsoft is doing Falls under the same Catagory:.changing settings without the users consent, claiming its better for the user if we [microsoft] do it this way.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/16/claim-for-750m-against-apple-launched-alleging-battery-throttling#:~:text=Apple acknowledged the throttling almost,the performance of a battery.

Default settings sometimes change - for reasons. And it could be a problematic change. For example: Microsoft turns the privacy settings from an opt-in to an opt-out. But that does not apply here. It was not an illicit nor an malicious change, it does not impair your device in any meaningful way and it helps millions of costumers to save some money and energy. Microsoft doesn't profit from that.

darknessblade · February 1, 2023

57 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Default settings sometimes change - for reasons. And it could be a problematic change. For example: Microsoft turns the privacy settings from an opt-in to an opt-out. But that does not apply here. It was not an illicit nor an malicious change, it does not impair your device in any meaningful way and it helps millions of costumers to save some money and energy. Microsoft doesn't profit from that.

It does matter if that so called Opt-OUT for "privacy settings" is changed without the users consent, and they suddenly are sending their data to microsoft without consent.

It is not only against the DMA and DSA regulations but also against the GDPR.

HenrySalayne · February 1, 2023

10 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

It does matter if that so called Opt-OUT for "privacy settings" is changed without the users consent, and they suddenly are sending their data to microsoft without consent.

It is not only against the DMA and DSA regulations but also against the GDPR.

Yes, exactly what I just wrote!

- changing privacy opt-in to opt-out --> BAD

- changing the default behaviour from standby to shut-down and saving a significant amount of power --> GOOD

darknessblade · February 1, 2023

2 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Yes, exactly what I just wrote!

- changing privacy opt-in to opt-out --> BAD

- changing the default behaviour from standby to shut-down and saving a significant amount of power --> GOOD

And how is a company changing ANY settings even remotely good.

It does not matter what settings they change. just that they want to change it is a Issue on itself.

Example: Sony changes the light of your PS4 controller from red to blue.

It is a menial setting and something that has 0.0% impact on how you use it.

What it does is show that a company changes settings they want you to use, even if you the consumer do not want to use said settings at all.

That is the whole problem. companies enforcing things they want upon users without the user their consent.

What Microsoft should have done is give a GUI promt after the update ""saying there is a newly improved Powersettings, asking users if they want to use their settings or swap to the new settings"".

This would have solved the entire issue, as they are giving the users the choice to use said new settings, instead of forcing you to use it before you can change it back.

______________________________

Let me give you a easier to understand example:

Microsoft keeps changing your default browser to EDGE [when it is run even once], even if you do not want to use it AT ALL

https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-11-users-will-be-forced-to-use-microsoft-edge-soon.

As many put it it is something very menial that does not affect you the user at all. since you can just change the settings back right?

HenrySalayne · February 1, 2023

5 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

That is the whole problem. companies enforcing things they want upon users without the user their consent.

Enforcing? ENFORCING?!? What force exactly? The force of "too-lazy-to-go-into-the-settings-menu-to-change-it"? GOOD! Use laziness to save power! Excellent move!

4 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

What Microsoft should have done is give a GUI promt after the update ""saying there is a newly improved Powersettings, asking users if they want to use their settings or swap to the new settings"".

This would have solved the entire issue, as they are giving the users the choice to use said new settings, instead of forcing you to use it before you can change it back.

So, they should have lied? There are no "newly improved" settings, they just changed the default state of one setting. And they didn't even change the user preference, because

- users either disabled it on their own already (setting stays the same)

or

- user haven't even touched the setting (still on default).

It's not like they asked you on initial setup and you chose standby, so it's not a user setting.

starsmine · February 1, 2023

4 hours ago, darknessblade said:

Are you talking from a American perspective or from a European perspective?

Since there is a clear difference in what would fall under Consumer Protection in both regions.

You still have not quoted a law in either region that applies here.
We are over here telling you such a law does not exist, we cant prove a negative.

You have quoted a law that has NO SUCH CLAUSE.

darknessblade · February 1, 2023

2 hours ago, starsmine said:

You still have not quoted a law in either region that applies here.
We are over here telling you such a law does not exist, we cant prove a negative.

You have quoted a law that has NO SUCH CLAUSE.

Thank you for providing the feedback you are looking at it from a American perspective.

https://www.crowell.com/NewsEvents/AlertsNewsletters/all/Digital-Markets-Act-EU-Institutions-Agree-on-New-Rules-to-Curb-the-Power-Of-Big-Tech-Platforms

Quote

Allow and technically enable users to easily uninstall applications and change default settings.

There you go, Since Microsoft chooses to change the settings back to "default" without the users consent. they are technically violating the DMA and DSA regulations. END OF STORY

starsmine · February 1, 2023

3 hours ago, darknessblade said:

Thank you for providing the feedback you are looking at it from a American perspective.

https://www.crowell.com/NewsEvents/AlertsNewsletters/all/Digital-Markets-Act-EU-Institutions-Agree-on-New-Rules-to-Curb-the-Power-Of-Big-Tech-Platforms

There you go, Since Microsoft chooses to change the settings back to "default" without the users consent. they are technically violating the DMA and DSA regulations. END OF STORY

Quote

Allow and technically enable users to easily uninstall applications and change default settings.

HOW for the love of god, HOW does this change make it so users are not able to easily change the setting?
Where are you getting the clause, updates can not change a setting?

This is one of the EASIEST settings for the user to change.

its not MS changing a setting BACK to default, its changing WHAT default is.

Im also lost as to how im approaching this from an american perspective when Im asking for any region. American or EU.

HenrySalayne · February 1, 2023

16 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

END OF STORY

Agreed. EU costumer protection regulation is not impaired by Microsoft changing the default shut-down behaviour of their XBox. End of story.

darknessblade · February 1, 2023

17 minutes ago, starsmine said:

HOW for the love of god, HOW does this change make it so users are not able to easily change the setting?
Where are you getting the clause, updates can not change a setting?

This is one of the EASIEST settings for the user to change.

its not MS changing a setting BACK to default, its changing WHAT default is.

Im also lost as to how im approaching this from an american perspective when Im asking for any region. American or EU.

Because it is not normal behavior for companies to make changes to the users system that will affect their daily use.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724#:~:text=Apple has been fined 25,making it clear to consumers.

Quote

The fine was imposed by France's competition and fraud watchdog DGCCRF, which said consumers were not warned.

Do users get a warning ON THEIR XBOX SYSTEM that their settings have been changed after said X-box update?

And NO, a news article or press release does not count, as being warned enough in the eyes of consumer protection agencies.

Also if you start talking about changing "default" settings you should also be able to remember Microsoft their "Internet-explorer" debacle from a couple years ago.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-fined-731m-by-eu-in-browser-choice-screw-up/

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/microsoft-makes-choice-for-a-different-default-browser-extra-difficult-in-windows-11,5.html

https://www.engadget.com/microsoft-is-killing-recent-changes-that-made-it-hard-to-switch-browsers-143041174.html?

I can remember the browser choice screen just fine, that was common in the ENTIRE EU

So in terms of settings like this Microsoft knows they have already been fined once, and can risk more fines if they repeat their BS.

Lightwreather · February 1, 2023

28 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

ecause it is not normal behavior for companies to make changes to the users system that will affect their daily use.

S-Sorry– wheeze– I'm sorry.

I don't know where you've lived but this has been the norm for decades now, actually since the beginning of civilisation.

(and ftr, I do live in the EU)

HenrySalayne · February 1, 2023

@darknessblade

You still haven't answered

- How customers (or the competition) are harmed.

- How Microsoft profits.

Because that's necessary to make a case and is pretty clearly laid out for every other example you posted so far.

Apple did not have a setting (at first) to switch off throttling. Apple had an incentive to sell battery replacements or more likely new phones to costumers.

With the XBox Microsoft gets nothing, the costumer saves some money on energy and spend some time waiting a little longer. And if they don't want to wait for a few seconds - they should have gotten a high-end PC (or just change the setting).

Honestly, I think you could not even find malicious intent in this change if you tried. It's a just a nothingburger.

leadeater · February 1, 2023

@darknessblade Microsoft could release an update to Xbox that entirely changes the UI to a "new and better one" whenever they like and that is completely within their right to do so. There is no consumer protection argument that could be made to stop this. You have two choices and two only: 1 Not apply the Update, 2 Stop using your Xbox.

You not liking something is not a consumer protection issue. Software and devices can go in directions you no longer like and that is a personal preference issue. You can object and complain but that doesn't make it fall within any bounds where you can all on anyone to "protect you".

Similarly with option 1 if you do not update then you may lose online features or entirely, but again that is only your choice to not install it because you did not like something about the update. That's still a you issue and not a legal issue or anything otherwise.

Not liking something gives you no rights at all other than to whine about it and hope (in vain usually) that you'll get listen to and changes made to address the complaint. That's almost always all you get. You are right now exercising the only right you have, the right to complain. Just remember when it comes to personal opinions others may not agree and opinions can be wrong.

There are times where consumer protections may apply, this isn't one of them.

Arika · February 1, 2023

holy shit, i think OP has literally gone insane. this is maybe the craziest string of comments i've seen on this forum...

Takumidesh · February 1, 2023

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Microsoft could release an update to Xbox that entirely changes the UI to a "new and better one" whenever they like and that is completely within their right to do so.

and they have done this about 1 million times since the first xbox was released.

Windows does it all the time too, adding and changing things.

Lightwreather · February 1, 2023

29 minutes ago, Arika S said:

holy shit, i think OP has literally gone insane. this is maybe the craziest string of comments i've seen on this forum...

We really need a Hall of Bizarre Fame on the Forum…

/s [ik this would be a terrible idea, but seriously this thread kinda deserves it. I mean 7 pages!]

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Xbox Is Now the First Carbon Aware Console, Update Rolling Out to Everyone Soon

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