ada lovelace NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Officially Launched at $799 with Performance Matching an RTX 3090 Ti (Updated - Now with Benchmarks/Reviews)

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

This card is SPECTACULARLY bad. Please for the love of god no one buy one. FFS Nvidia stop with this BS

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

26 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Remember when Intel got in trouble with the FTC for blatantly lying on slides and had to footnote EVERYTHING?
I think its time Nvidia gets slapped with that.

In this case, EVERY THING on the 4070ti v 3090TI was a lie, it never once out performed the 3090ti in any of those games listed. 

This card is the single worst PC Hardware related release I have ever seen. You can get a used 3090 for like $650 if you look around  enough and have double the VRAM for CHEAPER. This card is going to be like $1000 after AIB costs etc. It's worse price/performance than the 3080 AT RELEASE. Let alone now when you can get one for like $500 used

[bramturismo]

Wow, and people were disappointed with AMD's new releases... This takes the cake.

 

So this is a card that is worse than a 7900XT, but costs the same, and is advertised at performing up to 3 times a 3090Ti.

 

What the hell are people at Nvidia smoking? Seeing how far behind it is the 4080 in the benchmarks, it's incredible they even wanted to name it a 4080 to begin with. More so incredible is that so many people here in this forum didn't see the issue with Nvidia naming it 4080.

 

So we are down to AMD's card working as a deep fryer in horizontal position, and Nvidia only making 1 good card, but at a ridiculous cost.

 

Noice.

[WereCat]

6 hours ago, porina said:

That's one of the more interesting things to me too. It has been a wish list feature for DLSS-like processing for video for a while. We're may finally get it. Down side is it looks like it will only be offered on Ampere and newer. Turing is out. Wonder if it is a hardware limitation (like DLSS 3's Optical Flow requirement) or if they need more time to validate (like RTX voice).

 

Still, if this works for live streams you can watch low bitrate stream at decent quality. Combined with AV1 streaming when it gets available this can compound into a really impressive live stream quality (for those who have the cards that can do it). I wonder if this will allow a really high quality 120FPS streams to be more popular.

[MageTank]

Everyone over here complaining about price:performance. Meanwhile, I am over here trying to figure out why they changed the bus width from 256 on the 3070 Ti down to 192 on the 4070 Ti. The RTX 3070 Ti qualified for High Expandability under CEC Title 20 requirements because the bus width was wide enough to push 600GB/s on the frame buffer. The 4070 Ti is ineligible because it comes in at 504GB/s. This means if you sell prebuilt systems in California, Colorado or other Title 20 states, you can't use the RTX 4070 Ti in your systems, lol.

[RVRY]

I just picked up a RTX 3090 FE new in box for $700.

Nvidia successfully cured my buyers remorse with this card.

Nobody is selling 4070Tis for less than $900 locally.

[porina]

5 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Everyone over here complaining about price:performance. Meanwhile, I am over here trying to figure out why they changed the bus width from 256 on the 3070 Ti down to 192 on the 4070 Ti. The RTX 3070 Ti qualified for High Expandability under CEC Title 20 requirements because the bus width was wide enough to push 600GB/s on the frame buffer. The 4070 Ti is ineligible because it comes in at 504GB/s. This means if you sell prebuilt systems in California, Colorado or other Title 20 states, you can't use the RTX 4070 Ti in your systems, lol.

Is that the power consumption limit thing, where they give bigger allowances for higher performance components? Was RDNA2 affected (compare actual vs effective bandwidths?)

 

 

---- 8< ----

 

Looking at the wider market, I think if I had to buy a new higher performance GPU today, the 4070 Ti would be on the shortlist. General performance is comparable to 3090 class which is no slouch, and RT performance beats AMD with the exception of the XTX managing a lead at 4k. Personally I wouldn't want to pay more for the 4080 or 4090. I wont repeat the usual problems with AMD offerings but suffice to say they're unattractive to me especially at their price points.

 

Do note the Ampere availability is drying up on the higher end. It may vary regionally but where I am, 3080 and above are disappearing from sellers, and they certainly were never at lower pricing. If they were an option before, they may not be for much longer. We might look back at launch day Ampere pricing and wish for that to return, but that world is not today's world, and no amount of crying is going to change reality. Also I'd consider used to be a separate category. It is hard for new to ever beat used in basic value terms, but the risks of going used are not insignificant.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

3 minutes ago, porina said:

 risks of going used are not insignificant.

Such as? I am an absolute savage with buying used items, never once had an issue.... Used or bust.

[porina]

3 minutes ago, ShawtyT30beTHICCC said:

Such as? I am an absolute savage with buying used items, never once had an issue.... Used or bust.

So luck has been on your side so far. With new you'll have at least the warranty to fall back on should anything go wrong. I've only ever had to RMA one GPU, the AMD Fury X which had a double whammy of extreme coil whine as well as an unusually noisy fan. Replaced it with a blower 980 Ti and it worked so much better. I have had other computer components that were fine when they arrived but later fail within warranty (HD, SSD, ram) so again I'd lean to new for those areas.

 

I have bought used items, but they're usually lower end ones where I'm not too bothered if they die sooner than expected, but I'd be uncomfortable with more expensive items. I did go as high as a used 2080 Ti at one point and moved it on again once I was able to grab a 3070.

 

On the other side, I had a close shave as a seller. I owned a 1070 from new. Decided I didn't need it any more, and sold it. As far as I was concerned it was fine. I knew the buyer and was surprised to hear it died about a month after I sold it. They accepted it was fine when they got it so didn't kick a fuss.

[WereCat]

22 minutes ago, ShawtyT30beTHICCC said:

Such as? I am an absolute savage with buying used items, never once had an issue.... Used or bust.

I've bough several used cards but for example I would not risk buying used RTX 3090 unless it was severely discounted. The risk of the 12GB of VRAM under the backplate being toasted from mining is quite high, that's not an issue on a RTX 3090ti for example as all of the VRAM has some decent cooling for the most part and none of it is just sitting under backplate with barely any cooling.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

3 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I've bough several used cards but for example I would not risk buying used RTX 3090 unless it was severely discounted. The risk of the 12GB of VRAM under the backplate being toasted from mining is quite high, that's not an issue on a RTX 3090ti for example as all of the VRAM has some decent cooling for the most part and none of it is just sitting under backplate with barely any cooling.

Yeah I have heard used 3090 isn't the best idea.TBH, I am not even sure what the point of GDDR6X memory is at all. It just runs so much hotter for not much gain in performance.

[MageTank]

5 minutes ago, porina said:

Is that the power consumption limit thing, where they give bigger allowances for higher performance components? Was RDNA2 affected (compare actual vs effective bandwidths?)

It's a bit arbitrary, but I'll try to explain it. Source if needed: https://energycodeace.com/site/custom/public/reference-ace-t20/index.html#!Documents/gloss_highexpandabilitycomputer.htm

 

Basically, when you build a pre-built system and are testing to CEC Title 20 Compliance, you need to tally up the following scores to determine if you are compliant or not.

 

You can see the various points here. If your card is high expandability, you can ignore the point system above, you're guaranteed to pass on those grounds. Now, not being highly expandable doesn't mean you fail, it just means you need to pass the above point system with a score of at least 690 (might be 695, I personally aim for 700+). Now this is easy to do with lower tier cards like your 3060, 3050, 1650's, etc. This is because they are low power cards and can still fall within the scoring above. The RTX 4070 Ti is unique in that it is a high power card that lacks the high expandability clause that was designed for high power cards. So you end up with a high power card that is being graded on a scale designed for low power cards, and it utterly fails. It doesn't matter if you throw an 80+ platinum PSU at it with a board covered in x16 slots, you'll still end up failing.

 

Complicated, I know. I just find it funny that they didn't anticipate this and I am curious to see how this is handled.

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

Everyone over here complaining about price:performance. Meanwhile, I am over here trying to figure out why they changed the bus width from 256 on the 3070 Ti down to 192 on the 4070 Ti. The RTX 3070 Ti qualified for High Expandability under CEC Title 20 requirements because the bus width was wide enough to push 600GB/s on the frame buffer. The 4070 Ti is ineligible because it comes in at 504GB/s. This means if you sell prebuilt systems in California, Colorado or other Title 20 states, you can't use the RTX 4070 Ti in your systems, lol.

Wouldn't that make this even worse because they originally wanted to call this a 4080 and ask for more money than they currently are?

I also completely forgot about Title 20 and how that might affect sales of hardware, I'm glad you brought that up.

[MageTank]

8 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Wouldn't that make this even worse because they originally wanted to call this a 4080 and ask for more money than they currently are?

It wouldn't pass Title 20 no matter what they named it, but yeah, it might sting a little more to have a card called an RTX 4080 that didn't qualify for High Expandability, lol. I am mostly confused as to why they even bothered to step backwards in bus width.

 

I should preface this with, the Title 20 requirements do not apply to individuals, so gamers shouldn't care about this unless they buy pre-built systems. Considering how large the pre-built market is and how much money changes hands, genuinely shocked they overlooked this requirement.

[NumLock21]

37 minutes ago, MageTank said:

It wouldn't pass Title 20 no matter what they named it, but yeah, it might sting a little more to have a card called an RTX 4080 that didn't qualify for High Expandability, lol. I am mostly confused as to why they even bothered to step backwards in bus width.

 

I should preface this with, the Title 20 requirements do not apply to individuals, so gamers shouldn't care about this unless they buy pre-built systems. Considering how large the pre-built market is and how much money changes hands, genuinely shocked they overlooked this requirement.

Do pre-built have to submit a configuration of their build to the gov't and pass before they can mass produce and sell it to customers. Who monitors all of this, are they like them food inspectors, that randomly show up unannounced to see if they're building them PCs to compliance.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Do pre-built have to submit a configuration of their build to the gov't and pass before they can mass produce and sell it to customers. Who monitors all of this, are they like them food inspectors, that randomly show up unannounced to see if they're building them PCs to compliance.

Not directly to the government, you can submit to an authorized test lab. Couple of ways to go about this. You can go through the usual channels such as authorized test labs like Intertek, UL, etc. Or, you can apply to become your own authorized test lab which is the route we took since it is cheaper and the turnaround time is significantly quicker. Now regardless of which route you choose, your systems are always subject to audit. This means the government can hire third party auditors to purchase your products discretely and test them to the Title 20 standards to ensure compliance at any point during the products lifespan.

 

Now non-compliance is a VERY big deal. You can be fined up to $2500 per noncompliant system sold or offered for sale. Depending on the volume you ship, you'll want to avoid making that gamble altogether.

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

It wouldn't pass Title 20 no matter what they named it, but yeah, it might sting a little more to have a card called an RTX 4080 that didn't qualify for High Expandability, lol. I am mostly confused as to why they even bothered to step backwards in bus width.

 

I should preface this with, the Title 20 requirements do not apply to individuals, so gamers shouldn't care about this unless they buy pre-built systems. Considering how large the pre-built market is and how much money changes hands, genuinely shocked they overlooked this requirement.

Oh not even with how Title 20 will affect prebuilt sales, just the cut down core and bus width the card has, and now we know for sure how much worse it is than the 4080 16GB, they really wanted to call this a 4080? Bold.

[bramturismo]

1 hour ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Wouldn't that make this even worse because they originally wanted to call this a 4080 and ask for more money than they currently are?

I also completely forgot about Title 20 and how that might affect sales of hardware, I'm glad you brought that up.

My guess is retailers will be selling it at higher prices anyway. The 3090 Ti still is what, 1500-2200 USD?

Judging how the 4070Ti is on par or just below the Ti, my guess is selling prices will actually start at 899USD, what they initially intended.

 

Just a guess though.

[rockyroller]

I'm unsure what rating I can give this card in todays range of system parts.

Take for example monitors.

Monitors come in 3 basic dpi ranges, the 1080p the 1440p and the 4k. and they have what I'd call basic mhz bands too of below 100mhz, the 150mhz range and the 240mhz

 

If I understand it right, the sweet spot would be if you get a GFX cards FPS to be near your monitors MHZ range. So you get butter smooth movement coupled with WYSIWYFA (*what you see is what your firing at or I've think I've heard it described as input lag? and why the makers have things like DLSS to artificially increase the FPS) .

 

But it seems to me in FPS the 4070ti falls short of the average MHZ 1440p monitors sell with. This might be why the marketing is always about 4k and 4k monitors have really low MHZ 60mhz, and the reviews ignore 1080p altogether.

 

So you might have the engine and race tyres from a formula one for the race, but the suspension is off a Vauxhall Astra

[NumLock21]

39 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Not directly to the government, you can submit to an authorized test lab. Couple of ways to go about this. You can go through the usual channels such as authorized test labs like Intertek, UL, etc. Or, you can apply to become your own authorized test lab which is the route we took since it is cheaper and the turnaround time is significantly quicker. Now regardless of which route you choose, your systems are always subject to audit. This means the government can hire third party auditors to purchase your products discretely and test them to the Title 20 standards to ensure compliance at any point during the products lifespan.

 

Now non-compliance is a VERY big deal. You can be fined up to $2500 per noncompliant system sold or offered for sale. Depending on the volume you ship, you'll want to avoid making that gamble altogether.

I see, so the 4070Ti is stuck in the middle, too powerful to be categorized as efficient, and too weak to be categorized as a HEC so it can bypass that compliance requirement, because of its butchered bandwidth. So that means there isn't much choice for consumer when buying a pre-built, like they want the latest RTX 4000 series GPU. They will either have to go with the RTX 4050 that's too weak in their book or the RTX 4080 that's over the total amount they're willing to spend. is the RTX 4070 Ti subjected to compliance, when it's sold as a stand alone product?

[MageTank]

12 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I see, so the 4070Ti is stuck in the middle, too powerful to be categorized as efficient, and too weak to be categorized as a HEC so it can bypass that compliance requirement, because of its butchered bandwidth.

Exactly.

12 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

So that means there isn't much choice for consumer when buying a pre-built, like they want the latest RTX 4000 series GPU. They will either have to go with the RTX 4050 that's too weak in their book or the RTX 4080 that's over the total amount they're willing to spend.

Depends entirely on where the normal 4070 and the 4060 series falls, but this is potentially true in terms of prebuilts.

 

13 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

is the RTX 4070 Ti subjected to compliance, when it's sold as a stand alone product?

No, this is not subject to gamers or personal systems at all. Even for system builders, there are stipulations that must be met before you are required to submit to CEC title 20 testing: https://energycodeace.com/site/custom/public/reference-ace-t20/index.html#!Documents/section1602definitions.htm#vcomputerscomputermonitorstelevisionssignagedisplaysandconsumera1.htm

Quote

Small volume manufacturer” means a manufacturer that meets all of the following criteria:

(1) The manufacturer's gross revenues from the 12-month period preceding the certification under section 1606(j) of this Article. from all of the entity's operations, including operations of any other person or business entity that controls, is controlled by, or is under common control of the entity, is $2,000,000 or less;

(2) The manufacturer assembles and sells the computers at the same location; and

(3) The manufacturer has certified as a small volume manufacturer to the Energy Commission under section 1606(j).

So as long as you ship under $2M, assemble and sell your systems at the same location (no third party integrators) and are certified as a SVM, you'll be exempt from the testing. You still have to meet the base requirements of idle power states and what not, but you are not audited.

 

Small mom & pop stores or your average dude running a PC building company on the side won't be affected, but anyone moving large volume absolutely will be and this is where it will hurt Nvidia. If we cannot use their product for high volume sales, they have to hope it can push volume through BYO retail channels.

[BiG StroOnZ]

20 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

I miss when 70 series was $330, and even the higher end AIB models like Asus Strix and Gigabyte Gaming were only $350 or $360. Ugh and the GTX 970 wasn't that much of a step down from the 980 and nearly matched previous gen flagship performance. Then 1070 matched previous gen flagship at $450. 3070 almost matched previous gen flagship at $500. Now $800 (really going to be $900 with AIB models) to come close to the 3000 series flagship, gross.

 

I remember when I bought my Gigabyte GTX 670 Windforce brand new from Newegg for around $430. I bought my EVGA GTX 780 Superclocked for $430 a few months before the GTX 970 launched too. Additionally, NVIDIA at the time when Pascal launched was saying the 1070 was faster than a Titan X and it was (at a completive price mind you). 2070 and 3070 also had an MSRP of $499. Then here we are with Ada, and it's a colossal jump in price.

 

15 hours ago, starsmine said:

Yea im worried that that is the price structure we will get going down the stack. 

 

I agree, and it's quite bewildering.

 

An RTX 4060 @ $499, when the Kepler GTX 680 launched for the same price 11 years ago. Even accounting for inflation, a GTX 680 today would be $647. What a non-reference AIB/AIC RTX 4060 Ti is probably going to end up costing. 

 

9 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Well well well, so this AIB model that's $40 over MSRP is 10% behind the reference clock 3090 Ti at 4k. Lower price to performance than the 3080 was at launch, what a joke.

 

Spoiler

 

 

To be fair at 1080p and 1440p the 4070 Ti matches a 3090 Ti. I imagine the only reason why it comes up short at 4K is because of its lower bandwidth:

 

 

 

This of course doesn't change the fact that the card is supremely overpriced. 

[leadeater]

8 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Lower price to performance than the 3080 was at launch, what a joke.

So is the 3080 

 

Current price is really all that matters with that kind of assessment.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, MageTank said:

I should preface this with, the Title 20 requirements do not apply to individuals, so gamers shouldn't care about this unless they buy pre-built systems. Considering how large the pre-built market is and how much money changes hands, genuinely shocked they overlooked this requirement.

I thought there were other possible criteria for the High Expandability exception?

 

Edit:

Oh never mind the only other possible one is actually impossible

Quote

a total of 8 gigabytes or more of system memory with a bandwidth of 632 GB/s or more and an integrated GPU

Yea not even a 12 channel EPYC system is getting 632 GB/s memory bandwidth, wtf.

[SteveGrabowski0]

5 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

To be fair at 1080p and 1440p the 4070 Ti matches a 3090 Ti. I imagine the only reason why it comes up short at 4K is because of its lower bandwidth:

An $850 card is a 4k card IMO, ridiculous amount to pay for a 1440p card much less a 1080p card.