Change my mind: 3.5mm jacks

[Mark Kaine]

22 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

eventually the plug itself will wear out and start to crackle and loose connection

that's unfortunately true, but don't people buy a new phone every 1-2 years anyway? it should definitely hold a lot longer than that, plus maximum a battery will last is like 4 years....

so you're not wrong but it seems a weird complaint for something thats basically a throwaway product  

 

 

4 hours ago, dcgreen2k said:

I love my 3.5mm headphone jack. I don't have to worry about connection issues or forgetting to charge my headphones, and I'm always sitting down when I use my laptop so mobility isn't an issue. None of my devices that use it have ever broken at the cord or jack; it's always adhesives inside the headphones or earbuds that go first. The 3.5mm is a proven connector and I hope it doesn't go away anytime soon.

also not my experience,  headphones basically last forever,  the jacks break a lot sooner, plus if anything the headphone cables will break exactly where the plug is because that's where the most strain is put on the cable,  but happens really very rarely. 

 

Agreed about the connector though, Bluetooth just isnt a good alternative,  it always lags in my experience. 

which depending on content/ use case can be very annoying/ distracting. 

 

 

heres my ~20yo Sony headphones... im not seeing anything falling apart?

 

(yes I still have the "cover" )

 

 

i also have open Sony headphones,  probably even older, nothing falling apart there either.

 

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

16 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

that's unfortunately true, but don't people buy a new phone every 1-2 years anyway? it should definitely hold a lot longer than that, plus maximum a battery will last is like 4 years....

so you're not wrong but it seems a weird complaint for something thats basically a throwaway product  

Well the random pausing and volume changes to full blast can be quite annoying... and dangerous for the latter. 

[Mark Kaine]

9 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Well the random pausing and volume changes to full blast can be quite annoying... and dangerous for the latter. 

yeah, of course im just saying this isnt something that should happen in the average life of a phone (like 2 years max for most people honestly? )

 

if it did its probably just a terrible jack / quality. my old Xperias i used the headphone jack *a lot* and had them about 3-4 years each before the batteries died... but never any issues with the headphone jacks.

 

And from experience with Walkman their jacks also lasted at least that long (but definitely not forever) even the most expensive ones were kinda trash... i somehow always lost all the screws holding it together long before the headphone jack broke?!

 

ps: i have a really cheap aiwa, from like 1990... headphone jack still works! belt needs replacing though...

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

3 hours ago, wasab said:

i cant count the number of times my wire got caught or tangle in something which flings my phone out of my pocket and then crashing it into the hard pavement. i dont want to shorten my phone's life span by introducing an uneccesary hazard. If the phone does not fly away, it is my earbuds falling out of my ears. very big annoyance. 

Again, no one is forcing you to use it, but many of us do want that option because we don't want to use wireless battery draining garbage quality audio. And you can still use bluetooth if the jack is there. Also increasing the thickness of the phone by 0.5 mm to include the jack will free up more volume for battery than the jack takes. Please stop vouching for feature removal.

 

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah, of course im just saying this isnt something that should happen in the average life of a phone (like 2 years max honestly? )

 

if it did its probably just a terrible plug / quality. my old Xperias i used the headphone jack *a lot* and had them about 3-4 years each before the batteries died... but never any issues with the headphone jacks.

 

And from experience with Walkman their jacks also lasted at least that long (but definitely not forever) even the most expensive ones were kinda trash... i somehow always lost all the screws holding it together long before the headphone jack broke?!

I used my Galaxy S5 for nearly six years, other than occasionally having to clean the lint out of the connector by flushing it under the tap I never had an issue. It had about the same dimensions as my current S10e, but came with a replaceable battery, was properly water tight, and had more connectivity features (e.g., IR) than the current piece of garbage.

[Mark Kaine]

6 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

used my Galaxy S5 for nearly six years, other than occasionally having to clean the lint out of the connector by flushing it under the tap I never had an issue. It had about the same dimensions as my current S10e, but came with a replaceable battery, was properly water tight, and had more connectivity features (e.g., IR) than the current piece of garbage.

i honestly have the feeling the jacks in phones are better as in more "tight" if that makes sense than for example those *extremely expensive* Sony Walkman from back then... kinda have to because phones are also more rigid.

 

And yeah, around that time of s5 i guess... is where phones peaked,  i really loved the Xperias,  built like a tank,  lots of features and they were actually good media players too!

 

on my Samsung i cant really use it as a media player because it kinda doesn't have one, and VLC for example sucks about as bad lol...

 

and yeah its the first and last samsung i bought, the UI is horrible... i want my Sony/android back!

 

unfortunately im not sure Sony still makes good phones...

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

i honestly have the feeling the jacks in phones are better as in more "tight" if that makes sense than for example those *extremely expensive* Sony Walkman from back then... kinda have to because phones are also more rigid.

 

And yeah, around that time of s5 i guess... is where phones peaked,  i really loved the Xperias,  built like a tank,  lots of features and they were actually good media players too!

Yeah, give me a phone from that generation with a modern camera and display and I'd be quite happy, I have no idea why it isn't being done other than the ridiculous quest to shave of tenths of a millimetre in thickness.

[wasab]

46 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Also increasing the thickness of the phone by 0.5 mm to include the jack will free up more volume for battery than the jack takes

This is too much sacrifice. 

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

3 minutes ago, wasab said:

This is too much sacrifice. 

It'll also make it less likely to break due to flexing, improve the ability to implement a proper cooling solution, enable more reliable installation of the other connectors, ... Going for thinness is actively working against reliability.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah, of course im just saying this isnt something that should happen in the average life of a phone (like 2 years max for most people honestly? )

 

if it did its probably just a terrible jack / quality. my old Xperias i used the headphone jack *a lot* and had them about 3-4 years each before the batteries died... but never any issues with the headphone jacks.

 

And from experience with Walkman their jacks also lasted at least that long (but definitely not forever) even the most expensive ones were kinda trash... i somehow always lost all the screws holding it together long before the headphone jack broke?!

 

ps: i have a really cheap aiwa, from like 1990... headphone jack still works! belt needs replacing though...

Oh I meant the plug on the headphone/headset, not the actual jack on the phone. Might not have been clear at first. The jacks are fine, it's the plug because they always bend and stuff the moment you throw your phone back into your pocket. 

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Oh I meant the plug on the headphone/headset, not the actual jack on the phone. Might not have been clear at first. The jacks are fine, it's the plug because they always bend and stuff the moment you throw your phone back into your pocket. 

oh okay,  i mean the jacks break,  sometimes,  but should take like a decade realistically  

 

the plugs, well it also depends on the form factor/ quality, its true they can break should last a while though,  i mean i posted a pic, those are really ~20 yo (cost 300 bucks tho!) and in perfect condition? (often used too)

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

oh okay,  i mean the jacks break,  sometimes,  but should take like a decade realistically  

 

the plugs, well it also depends on the form factor/ quality, its true they can break should last a while though,  i mean i posted a pic, those are really ~20 yo (cost 300 bucks tho!) and in perfect condition? (often used too)

Yea I think I only have one jack that's starting to act funny. And that's oddly enough a Xperia Arc. Though I might let that slide because it is over 10 years old and saw quite a bit of use when I had it and when I passed it on to my folks. 

 

But yea the plugs for the headphones people usually pickup for like 20 to 40 bucks, they tend to only last for about 1-2 years from my experience. Which is roughly the amount of money you can get a half decent set of Bluetooth buds really.

[Mark Kaine]

oh now i remember "Sony Discman" utter trash! Brilliant sound, nice controls,  headphone jack broke within a year or two ~

 

And some Walkmans surely had the same fate... but yeah that shouldn't be an issue with phones the jacks are usually really sturdy!

 

 

7 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

But yea the plugs for the headphones people usually pickup for like 20 to 40 bucks, they tend to only last for about 1-2 years from my experience. Which is roughly the amount of money you can get a half decent set of Bluetooth buds really.

yeah, maybe those ~20 bucks ones are just cheap materials they can break for sure, but good headphones were always expensive,  100 minimum imo?? 

 

^ i saw that with people "the best headphones ever for only 10 bucks!"

 

a week later they simply stopped working : D

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

oh now i remember "Sony Discman" utter trash! Brilliant sound, nice controls,  headphone jack broke within a year or two ~

 

And some Walkmans surely had the same fate... but yeah that shouldn't be an issue with phones the jacks are usually really sturdy!

 

 

yeah, maybe those ~20 bucks ones are just cheap materials they can break for sure, but good headphones wete always expensive,  100 minimum imo?? 

 

^ i saw that with people "the best headphones ever for only 10 bucks!"

 

a week later they simply stopped working : D

Well unfortunately that's the sort of headphones your average joe would've bought back in the day. Before AirPods and Sony XM4s it was all these little colourful nuggets. Interesting how Apple pretty much single handily made the average purchase price of personal audio balloon like ten fold. 

 

[da na]

It's simple, reliable, and not another thing I have to keep charged.

[dcgreen2k]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

also not my experience,  headphones basically last forever,  the jacks break a lot sooner, plus if anything the headphone cables will break exactly where the plug is because that's where the most strain is put on the cable,  but happens really very rarely. 

 

Agreed about the connector though, Bluetooth just isnt a good alternative,  it always lags in my experience. 

which depending on content/ use case can be very annoying/ distracting.

 

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

oh okay,  i mean the jacks break,  sometimes,  but should take like a decade realistically  

 

the plugs, well it also depends on the form factor/ quality, its true they can break should last a while though,  i mean i posted a pic, those are really ~20 yo (cost 300 bucks tho!) and in perfect condition? (often used too)

 

It also has to do with the user. I'm very careful not to put too much stress on the jack or connector, so I've never had one break. I've also seen people forget to take off their headphones and walk away from their computer... ouch.

 

The only 3.5mm jack I use that has problems is in my 2008 Scion tC that I bought used; some of the contacts disconnect when the car turns or goes over bumps a certain way. It's a common issue, and is most likely due to solder joints that break loose. I still need to get around to fixing that

[Arika]

5 hours ago, wasab said:

it leaves out space for other parts of the component, bigger battery for example.

OK, how much extra battery is gained by dropped the headphone jack?

And realistically how much more battery life does it gain?

[wasab]

30 minutes ago, Arika S said:

OK, how much extra battery is gained by dropped the headphone jack?

And realistically how much more battery life does it gain?

Not sure. Only the engineers who design the device knows. I generally like my device lean because I will be popping in a slim case regardless of the bulk. 

[suicidalfranco]

The thing with headphones is, as dankpods says every time in s review for old gear, good headphones stay good. That's the beauty of it.

I can pick up some headphones from the 70s and those things would work like s charm and also slap any Bluetooth headphone in sound quality like a pimp would to a hoe who didn't bring him is money.

Also supporting Bluetooth only is counter to any eco bs claim. Bluetooth only leads to more ewaste than having both options on any device. Unless you can show me a bt headphones that can still be used in a reasonable way after a decade of usage. Hard doubt on that.

And to those claiming that the Jack can break, your literally 50 cents and 10 minutes away of recovering them. What's better for the environment: headphones with their sealed battery in the landfill or a bit of wire and it's tip in the landfill. And if you're a complete for at soldering, and can't figure out left from right, it's the easiest and cheapest repair you can ask to any repair kiosk.

So round up:

1. Wired headphones last longer
2. Wired headphones sound better
3. Wired headphones have better mics
4. Wired headphones are eco friendlier
5. Wired headphones are cheaper

[mr moose]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:22 AM, wasab said:

i cant count the number of times my wire got caught or tangle in something which flings my phone out of my pocket and then crashing it into the hard pavement. i dont want to shorten my phone's life span by introducing an uneccesary hazard. If the phone does not fly away, it is my earbuds falling out of my ears. very big annoyance. 

So everyone else can endure not having a port they want because you don't want to use wired headphones when you already have other options?  Just don't use the 3.5. 

 

 

[AvMaverick]

Because options matter.

 

We can have BOTH wireless and wired. There's a reason brands want you to only have one option, as wireless is more profitable for them. You can always use wireless, but you should have another option for emergencies or edge cases at the very least.

 

 

[LogicalDrm]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:06 AM, Arika S said:

OK, how much extra battery is gained by dropped the headphone jack?

And realistically how much more battery life does it gain?

None. To both. Because its not battery thats effected by having or not having jack. Devices without jack are thinner (as both Lightning and USBC are thin connectors and thus, with camera, only bulky things to cater to). Battery and screen would be next on the list, with one determining size and other made to please enough customers and still be as small as possible. If anything, having jack enable option to have bigger battery as there will be more space for it anyway.

*/ Based on reading reviews and spec sheets back when I was looking new phone so could be bit off the reality 4 years after the fact.

 

Another thought. Its funny to me that so many in this thread say "3.5mm jack is bad because I don't like wires" or "wires break". What does that have to do with having jack or not? You are not forced to use it. Its there to those who prefer options. Like selfie camera. Its there even if you won't ever use it. Or 2nd SIM slot.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

6 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

None. To both. Because its not battery thats effected by having or not having jack. Devices without jack are thinner (as both Lightning and USBC are thin connectors and thus, with camera, only bulky things to cater to). Battery and screen would be next on the list, with one determining size and other made to please enough customers and still be as small as possible. If anything, having jack enable option to have bigger battery as there will be more space for it anyway.

*/ Based on reading reviews and spec sheets back when I was looking new phone so could be bit off the reality 4 years after the fact.

 

Another thought. Its funny to me that so many in this thread say "3.5mm jack is bad because I don't like wires" or "wires break". What does that have to do with having jack or not? You are not forced to use it. Its there to those who prefer options. Like selfie camera. Its there even if you won't ever use it. Or 2nd SIM slot.

Yeah, the volume lost by adding the jack is nothing compared to the additional volume you gain by adding the 0.5 mm of thickness you need past the USB-C port to get the jack in there. It depends a bit on the exact battery technology, but that should allow you to squeeze in another layer in your LiPo pack, meaning you get significantly more capacity.

 

[mr moose]

10 hours ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Yeah, the volume lost by adding the jack is nothing compared to the additional volume you gain by adding the 0.5 mm of thickness you need past the USB-C port to get the jack in there. It depends a bit on the exact battery technology, but that should allow you to squeeze in another layer in your LiPo pack, meaning you get significantly more capacity.

 

not only is 0.5mm is enough to make a huge difference to capacity but that extra capacity can result in a much longer life cycle before needing to be replaced.   Something that many manufacturers try to avoid unfortunately.

 

I would take a phone that is 2mm thicker any day if it meant sturdier and bigger battery.

 

 

[Stahlmann]

I did care about it until recently. Now i have my first actually great sounding truly wireless IEMs and now i don't care anymore. My perspective is phone only though as i don't have a laptop and my PC has an external USB DAC that powers my wired headphones.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

not only is 0.5mm is enough to make a huge difference to capacity but that extra capacity can result in a much longer life cycle before needing to be replaced.   Something that many manufacturers try to avoid unfortunately.

 

I would take a phone that is 2mm thicker any day if it meant sturdier and bigger battery.

 

 

Let's be even crazier, and make it so the phone can't twist simultaneously.