Why does everyone hate the 4080?

[Blademaster91]

3 hours ago, Omga4000 said:

Hmm.. It's not a matter of "convincing". It shouldn't be a point of view, I'm looking for numbers.

I could have bought 10 of them and return all 10 if I was given a good enough reason to do so.

 

Why are people fixated at the launch price? That MSRP is long gone.

The truth of the matter is that the 3080 10GB LHR is ~33% slower and costs ~33% less than the 4080.

The cheapest one right now is 813$.

 

So - how is the 4080 a bad purchase if it's on-par with the performance to cost ration of the mentioned 3080?

Was the expectation to obliterate the 3080 while keeping the same cost?

Because that I would understand.

Well it sounds like you want people to defend you on your purchase and say the pricing isn't bad, except the market is fine now, and used cards can be found for a lot less, you can get a new 3090 or 3090Ti for a lot less than what they were going for during the shortages, although prices have started to go back up as either the supply of those is starting to run out, or Nvidia wants to control the market on the 30 series cards to get people to buy a 40 series card.

And even with the 3080 at $800, the price increase on the 4080 is still massive, Nvidia got criticized for the 3080Ti based on the pricing of it and the bad value compared to the 3080. The 4080 is a good card ruined by a massive price hike that puts it into the pricing territory that the Ti cards used to be in, the increase in cost is also way above the 3080 even with inflation.

Also a 3080 is 39% faster in relative performance at 4k than a 2080Ti according to the Techpowerup chart, yet the 3080 was $300 less than a 2080Ti, so Nvidia is just getting greedy because they know people will buy it anyway because people paid way over MSRP during the shortages and when miners were buying up GPU's.

Also you're making it sound as if there isn't any choice but to buy from Nvidia, if you're just playing games and don't care about ray tracing an AMD card is much better on price to performance.

3 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

The MSRP for 4080 in the current market is actually not bad (as OP pointed out), but we all know in a few days all the "basic" models at MSRP will be sold out and won't be restocked for a long time and you can expect to pay $1500+ for 4080s and people wish they had gotten one at MSRP.

People can always dream about cards being available for less, but that's just not going to happen. 

The current market is fine though, used cards can be found for much less than new, there isn't any defense for the 4080 MSRP being $1200, Nvidia is a company they are not your friend, and the reason for Nvidia doing it is because they can, as people bought the 30 series cards when prices were double the MSRP, so of course Nvidia is going to sell the 4080 at a stupid price because leather jacket man and the shareholders want to keep up the mining hype level of profit margins. I also wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia is limiting the supply of 4080's so it seems like they're actually selling out of cards, with inflation and everything being expensive now I seriously doubt people are rushing out to spend $1200 on a graphics card. I don't expect cards to sell for any less any time soon, but with the 16 pin connector melting and the x80 tier being over twice as much as it used to I'm not going to buy an Nvidia card.

[xAcid9]

2 hours ago, Omga4000 said:

Why are people comparing the 4080 to the 3080 MSRP and not current market price?

Yeah, why not you compare it to current market price? You should do that.  I support you. 

[Omga4000]

48 minutes ago, OU812 said:

Dude, I have never seen someone put so much effort into trying to defend their purchase when people tell them they messed up. Sounds to me your small brag for buying two 4080s didn't go as you would have liked. Its a GPU not a d***, stop taking it so hard.

Thanks for the laugh, goodbye now 

 

  

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Well it sounds like you want people to defend you on your purchase and say the pricing isn't bad, except the market is fine now, and used cards can be found for a lot less

The used market isn't for everyone, especially when I'm buying it as a present.

 

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And even with the 3080 at $800, the price increase on the 4080 is still massive, Nvidia got criticized for the 3080Ti based on the pricing of it and the bad value compared to the 3080

Then.. What does this teach us, exactly?

That nVidia did not learn from its past mistakes or that it simply doesn't care about its customers?

Because if people were angry at the 30xx series and they just go ahead and do it again (even worse this time?), then are we to expect prices to remains this high from this point onwards?

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

and don't care about ray tracing

I personally don't care as much, but as I've mentioned before, this card is a present to someone who does care so nVidia is my only choice here.

Just trying to understand if the 4080 is currently the best bang for buck when comparing it to other nVidia cards.

I personally will wait for the AMD 7900 XTX and see how they compare.

[xg32]

30 minutes ago, Omga4000 said:

.

gonna keep this short, with the info we know, the amd cards are probably gonna blow it out of the water, the 4090 is the same cost per frame while being the fastest card, which means it's a better deal. The 4080 targets people who doesn't have 1600usd for a gpu but just happens to have 1200 to spend on a worse deal. Who's it actually for?

 

Everyone i've talked to is either keeping their 3080ti, looking at the 4090 or waiting for the xtx.

 

I wanted nvda to launch the 4080 12gb as it was at 900usd and watch it crash and burn, what i missed (because the 4080 16gb is less terrible) is it happening to the 4080, I don't hate it, the card might as well not exist though.

 

Oh and i almost forgot the new connector for a 350w card

[Omga4000]

4 minutes ago, xg32 said:

gonna keep this short, with the info we know, the amd cards are probably gonna blow it out of the water, the 4090 is the same cost per frame while being the fastest card, which means it's a better deal. The 4080 targets people who doesn't have 1600usd for a gpu but just happens to have 1200 to spend on a worse deal. Who's it actually for?

 

Everyone i've talked to is either keeping their 3080ti, looking at the 4090 or waiting for the xtx.

 

I wanted to launch the 4080 12gb as it was at 900usd and watch it crash and burn, what i missed (because the 4080 16gb is less terrible) is it happening to the 4080, I don't hate it, the card might as well not exist though.

 

Oh and i almost forgot the new connector for a 350w card

Fair enough, good points.

I may cancel one card (or both, I'll discuss this with the person I'm buying it for) and wait for the 7900 XTX. Hope it doesn't disappoint.

[Omga4000]

To wrap up this post:

I've decide to cancel one of the orders of the 4080 and wait for the 7900 XTX. If it disappoints, I'll just wait another damn year and see what'll happen to GPU prices. Sigh.

I'll discuss this with the person I had bought the 2nd GPU for  and try to convince them to give it up and wait for the 7900 XTX as well.

 

Thank you very much to all of you who were actually useful and trying to help and educate me without being condescending with a bad temper.

Greatly appreciate the assistance!

[heatonpkmassive]

Because it's twice the price of its predecessor, an absolute rip off. 

 

I could buy several of these if I wanted, but I'm not giving that tosser Jensen my money at these prices. 

[Birblover12]

To me it's a no brainer, not because of price, or performance, or "best value for the money", it's because of what happens when the card gets a little too greedy for power from a helpless PSU cable...

 

 

 

[HardStroke]

Price is INSANE

An XX80 Shouldn't cost 1200 bucks

If this is the case, expect the RTX 5060 to preform as same as the RTX 4070 with an msrp of 1400 bucks

In my country this stupid 4080 starts from 2000 bucks

4090 starts from 2600 bucks

Actually WTF

3080 Is still going strong for 1000 bucks

Wasn't like that with Pascal or Turing

[ewitte]

Because it isn't a $1200 card.  It is 60% of a 4090 at 75% of the cost but it doesn't have the advantage of being the fastest at everything like the 4090 does.  People pay extra for halo products few will for "mainstream" products.  The 7900XTX will demolish it in rasterization and *possibly* trade blows depending on title with ray tracing.  For the die size and class of card this was $800 last generation.  At best I can see it being worth about $1k.

 

Those prices must be Europe here there are several models at the 1599 price.  If you're paying scalpers that is just impatience and encouraging them to do it. You are better off even driving 10 hours to get one at a MC.  Otherwise everything will be plentiful early next year at the latest.

 

Also, if your only getting 5% more with a 4090 you are CPU limited.  If those are your primary titles and you're running 1440p maybe you don't even need a 4080 there are probably products under $700 that are just fine.  You can even get a used 3090 for like $800.

[-rascal-]

@Omga4000

Basically, my take on it.

 

The RTX 4080 is ~75% of the performance of the RTX 4090, for ~75% of the price.

The price scaling it is based off, basically the MSRP of the RTX 4090, which is HIGH.

The price-to-performance is horrible, and nVidia KNOWS it, and they have done it on purpose.

 

If you look at the price history of the GTX / RTX xx80 series, the price of a took a +71% jump with the RTX 4080.

MSRP of the RTX 4080 is $1199.

MSRP of the RTX 3080 was $699.

MSRP of the RTX 2080 was $699.

MSRP of the GTX 1080 was $599.

 

Even if the cost of rising component prices, inflation, etc, I can see a +$100 ~ $200 price hike.

But a +$500 jump?? That is going straight into Jensen's leather jacket fund...or gold plated kitchen counters.

 

Prior to the RTX 4000-series, it didn't use the top-ter GPU as the reference price.

I guess, you can say, it used the GPU one step below as reference price.

Example, RTX 3070 had an MSRP of $499.

The RTX 3070 was ~75% the performance of the RTX 3080 for ~60% of the price.

 

If...say nVidia prices the RTX 5090 at $5000.

And then the RTX 5080 for $4000 for ~80% of the performance.

Using $5000 as the point of reference is insane.

 

Instead of paying a premium to be the top 5% (i.e. RTX 3090 Ti), you are now paying the price premium for a mid-top tier card.

Not to scale, but something like this...before vs RTX 4000-series line-up.

 

[KaitouX]

9 hours ago, Omga4000 said:

Again, I assume you're talking MSRP here.

MSRP means nothing to me at this point in time, does it?

I can understand the overall anger towards nVidia on that one, but I can't find that 3080 card for MSRP, so it's basically a moot argument.

I need a GPU now, not over the next years when AMD finally awakens and becomes an actual competitor and breaks nVIdia's monopoly.

What are other good options?

From Nvidia side all GPUs below the 3070 are around MSRP or lower, and the 3080 and above can be found at MSRP if you wait for the restocks, as old stock is pretty overpriced, probably because shops overpaid for them and aren't willing to take the losses. AMD is a pretty good option currently for gaming, so not sure why you act like they aren't. The 6900XT is around $650 and it performs better than the 3080 at anything that isn't AI/RT related, the 6800 has options below $500, and there's one 6800XT model for $535.

[Shzzit]

7 hours ago, OU812 said:

Dude, I have never seen someone put so much effort into trying to defend their purchase when people tell them they messed up. Sounds to me your small brag for buying two 4080s didn't go as you would have liked. Its a GPU not a d***, stop taking it so hard.

He can’t mess up, it’s his money and he can do what ever he wants, the simple fact is you seem jealous you can’t afford one.

[Mark Kaine]

8 hours ago, Omga4000 said:

Just trying to understand if the 4080 is currently the best bang for buck

yeah, well, it's not. that pretty much everyone is saying it's not, should maybe give you a hint.

 

 

as for alternatives, im -honestly- not sure, but i dont see why a 3080/ti *** wouldn't work for "cyberpunk 4k" but others are more knowledgeable around here regarding that, surely.

 

the thing is, you should have... can still do... made a topic asking for recommendations regarding whats a good card for your purposes... pretty sure people wouldn't have suggested a 4080, but who knows...

 

 

Lastly,  did you really not know that the 4080 is a fail design due the the power connectors melting/catching fire (possibly), do you *really* want to gift that to someone you like (presumably)???  i don't get it...(tbh)

 

 

*** regarding the pricing, again, people here can likely help, but i do not believe your info is correct,  ive definitely seen them under or at msrp here (europe) 

 

ps: admittedly right now,  before the holidays,  might not be the best time to buy a gpu ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[ewitte]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

Lastly,  did you really not know that the 4080 is a fail design due the the power connectors melting/catching fire (possibly), do you *really* want to gift that to someone you like (presumably)???  i don't get it...(tbh)

 

May want to watch the latest Gamer's Nexus video.  In short.

- Failure has been 0.05-0.1% (.1% is 100 out of 100000).

- There is some amount with debris due to manufacturing but the vast majority of those appear to be a bad connection plus not inserted straight.  A really bad connection like 4mm out on one side and 6mm on the other.  The current connector doesn't always click and there needs to be force (mine didn't but the cablemod one I got does).   It is very possible it can come out on its own if the cable is tense enough.

- PCI-SIG may rectify this by requiring the sense cable to be shortened so that it isn't possible to power a device that isn't plugged in correctly.

- Some devices have ALWAYS failed in that sense this entire mess has been entirely blown out of proportion.

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

2 minutes ago, ewitte said:

May want to watch the latest Gamer's Nexus video.

yeah, i did. the first 5 seconds. that was all i felt i needed to know

 

4 minutes ago, ewitte said:

Failure has been 0.05-0.1% (.1% is 100 out of 100000).

ok, very skeptical about such numbers,   did they even sell 100000??

 

5 minutes ago, ewitte said:

In short.

yeah, so most of the stuff hasn't really been rectified yet (sig etc) that's why i still wouldn't think thats a great present for someone (who may or may not even know about the issue) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ewitte]

48 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah, i did. the first 5 seconds. that was all i felt i needed to know

 

ok, very skeptical about such numbers,   did they even sell 100000??

 

yeah, so most of the stuff hasn't really been rectified yet (sig etc) that's why i still wouldn't think thats a great present for someone (who may or may not even know about the issue) 

 

They say they shipped 100k.  Not sure how that translates into actual numbers.  The 0.05-0.1% estimate was in the video.  They had been talking directly with Nvidia, partners, etc.  Really though the point of it is MOST of the failures were incorrectly seated.

[-rascal-]

6 hours ago, KaitouX said:

From Nvidia side all GPUs below the 3070 are around MSRP or lower, and the 3080 and above can be found at MSRP if you wait for the restocks, as old stock is pretty overpriced, probably because shops overpaid for them and aren't willing to take the losses. AMD is a pretty good option currently for gaming, so not sure why you act like they aren't. The 6900XT is around $650 and it performs better than the 3080 at anything that isn't AI/RT related, the 6800 has options below $500, and there's one 6800XT model for $535.

 

Oh yeah!

One of the retailers over here in Canada has the ASUS TUF 6900 XT on sale for $799 CAD.

If you do a $1 USD = $1.35 CAD currency conversion, that's about ~$590 USD. For RTX 3080 Ti ~ RTX 3090 level performance (assuming RT off) at that price is amazing.

 

6 months ago, $799 CAD would get you a RTX 3060 / 3060 Ti. Considering 6800 XT usually goes for $900 ~ $1300... depending on the model.

 

 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

16 hours ago, Omga4000 said:

Hi everyone,

 

I've been seeing everyone BASHING on the 4080, honestly, for not apparent reason.

The main argument is: The 3080's MSRP is 699$, the 4080 is 1199$. nVidia is a greedy company.

 

Now here's my (logical?) counter-argument:

1. The 4080 is better than even a 3090 Ti which was released at an MSRP of 1,999$. People were not as negative towards the 3090 Ti as they are over the 4080.
2. The 4080 is much closer to the 3080 Ti in terms of CUDE Cores and VRAM, and then 3080 Ti was released at the exact MSRP of 1,199$ as the 4080.
   I assume the 4080 12GB was intended to be the "real" 4080, and the 4080 16GB the 4080 Ti? If nVidia would have simply called the 4080 16GB version a "4080 Ti" would people not be as pissed as they are?

3. The current market is awful, allowing nVidia to basically do whatever they want. Reality check, "courtesy" of pcpartpicker:

   1. Want a 3090? Pay 1,298$+ (only 1 card at that price). ~13-23% slower than the 4080 for ~8% more money.

   2. Want a 3090 Ti? Pay 1,639$+ (only 1 card at that price). ~9-14% slower than the 4080 for 36% more money.

   3. Want a 4090? Pay 2,079$+ (only 1 card at that price - the next one is 2,199$). ~5-25% faster than the 4080 for 73%-83% more money.

   4. Or frantically refresh websites until (maybe) some website sells them at MSRP. Maybe.

And on a more personal note and a bit more details about my thought process here:

Yes - it's very justified for companies to spike their prices. nVidia isn't some charity organization intended to give back to the community. They are here to make money and please the investors first and foremost. If that means increasing the prices dramatically due to numerous reasons, such as: extremely high demand, shortage of chips in the industry, increased prices of the workforce, materials, development process and shipment, no competition, and purely because they can - they will do it.

Whether you (the user) like it or not makes 0 difference to them, since they have done their research (they have people smarter than many of us working on exactly that) and know it will sell either way due to the current market situation. They can only make X GPUs a year, knowing very well the vast majority of them will sell. Why sell them for 699$ a piece if it'll sell the exact same way for 1199$ a piece?

Is it ethical / good for consumers? Nope and nope.

Is it something that was done in the past? Only a million times by a million different companies. Tesla has been doing it for years.. Does that stop people from buying Teslas? Not really. They are still selling far more than they can produce. Only now people with less money can't afford it. Did you see Elon Musk crying about all those people who can't afford Teslas? Didn't think so.

Until nVidia produces more GPUs than they can sell, prices will continue rising. Until AMD/Intel doesn't produce anything worthwhile and competitive, prices will continue rising. Until scalpers will be dealt with, price will continue rising. This is a very very basic demand and supply issue.

This problem won't be fixed just because xxx_insert_username_here_xxx can't afford a product, or thinks a private company is doing "unethical" things. They have enough customers without them, they've done their research. It being sold out very quickly just proves it they were not wrong.

 

Thoughts?

 

Full disclosure:

OP had bought 2 RTX 4080's at MSRP for 2 different builds and doesn't understand all the fuss and hate around it.

You are part of the problem. The 4080 is horrifically, obnoxiously, slapyomamma crazy overpriced. Return both of them. Let them rot on the shelf

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

16 hours ago, Omga4000 said:

Why would that be the case? I can easily cancel my order, they haven't even shipped. Weird logic here.

 

By "huge" do you mean 5-25%? Because that's what I've been seeing.

Considering the fact the MSRP of the 4090 is ~33% - what's the problem with pricing the 4080 for 1,199?

Relative performance at 4K:

 

Possible? let's assume it's somewhere in-between the 4080 and the 4090, so 1,399$?

It won't beat the 4090 otherwise it'll be called a 4090. So an increase of ~16% of the cost for... 15-20% increased performance?

Still priced correctly. if someone needs that performance, go for it.

 

Better than cards that were priced HIGHER. It beats the 3090 Ti which went for 1,599$.

 

I'll give you that one.

 

 

The main problem is people like me, who have been postponing their PC upgrade for 4 years are tired of waiting.

The market is bad, it is what it is. I haven't bought a GPU for 6 years and there's basically nothing better at this price point right now.

It's called a monopoly and nVidia is definitely using it for their own benefit.

I agree it's an ugly move made by nVidia (kinda), I agree it can be different (kinda), but the fact is very simple - it isn't.

This is the reality and it's not going to be any different. They are selling GPUs, both BestBuy and Newegg are completely sold out.

The price of the 30xx series hasn't dropped in price, and AMD / Intel just don't reach the performance of nVidia.

So what's a better option here? To sit and wait for another 4 years and keep my fingers crossed some magic fairy will fix the market?

I got screwed over when I waited with the 20xx series.

I got screwed over when I waited with the 30xx series.

I got screwed over when I waited with the 4090 specifically.

 

When will I play my games? When I'm 60?

 

  

Sure thing. Such a logical argument when one can cancel an order with one click.

Thank you for your valuable contribution to the thread.

 

  

Hmm.. It's not a matter of "convincing". It shouldn't be a point of view, I'm looking for numbers.

I could have bought 10 of them and return all 10 if I was given a good enough reason to do so.

 

Why are people fixated at the launch price? That MSRP is long gone.

The truth of the matter is that the 3080 10GB LHR is ~33% slower and costs ~33% less than the 4080.

The cheapest one right now is 813$.

 

So - how is the 4080 a bad purchase if it's on-par with the performance to cost ration of the mentioned 3080?

Was the expectation to obliterate the 3080 while keeping the same cost?

Because that I would understand.

???? You can find 3080s for like $475-$500 my man

[pka leaf]

Maybe its cause Radeon can now compete...

[Omga4000]

21 hours ago, ShawtyT30beTHICCC said:

???? You can find 3080s for like $475-$500 my man

 

21 hours ago, ShawtyT30beTHICCC said:

<redacted by staff>

<redacted by staff>

Second, are you talking about second-hand cards or brand new ones?

Edited November 18, 2022 by WkdPaul

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

21 hours ago, Omga4000 said:

Second, are you talking about second-hand cards or brand new ones?

Second hand. It's a 2 year old card, it's hard to find brand new. That doesn't matter though. 

Compare launch prices makes it look just as bad. 

$1199 vs $699.

 

I'd rather shove a flaming chopstick up my youknowwhat than pay NGreedia 1 cent more than $799 for this sad excuse of a card. It's not even really a 4080. It's nerfed to crap from the 4090 compared to how the 3080 was compared to the 3090. It's on the die usually reserved for x70 series cards.

Edited November 18, 2022 by WkdPaul

[Omga4000]

1 minute ago, ShawtyT30beTHICCC said:

Second hand. It's a 2 year old card, it's hard to find brand new

I had already commented on second hand, saying that it is a present and I cannot buy one in this case.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

Just now, Omga4000 said:

I had already commented on second hand, saying that it is a present and I cannot buy one in this case.

If you insist on brand new, buy a brand spankin' new 6900xt at $629, problem solved.