Why does everyone hate the 4080?

[starsmine]

15 minutes ago, Digitaltantrum said:

if you are running a 3080 you probably dont feel the need to upgrade. and again, even if you are and want to upgrade youll get a bit better performance with a 4070 for $100 dollars cheaper than the launch price of the 3080 which is the opposite of stagnation.

Im not arguing from the perspective of someone who owns ampere. Anyone upgrading a single generation is just a fool with money. 

I meant people who were upgrading from anything else, if you didnt want to upgrade to ampere, the fact that the price performance for the 40 cards did not change and that it got even more expensive, its not an incentive. 

 

11 minutes ago, Digitaltantrum said:

ok so you get waaaaay better performance in the 4080 than the 3080 ti for the same price...youre welcome

do you though? 3080ti was a 950 dollar card at launch, 4080 was 1200. 
You got 35% more performance for 25% more dollars. True, its not as stagnant, but come on, same price?}


I want to pause for a second,
When a new gen launches, I do expect same performance for same money compared to the DROPPED current market pricing of the old generation. Which I understand on the surface conflates with my arguments, but it doesnt as you can see that the 4080 is more expensive then comparable cards. The only thing you compared it to being good at in terms of value was the 3090/3090ti, aka the flagships.

Flagships should not included because flagships price/performance does not matter. Their whole point is to get the last 5-10% of performance out of a gen, even if it costs 50% more.

[Digitaltantrum]

3 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Im not arguing from the perspective of someone who owns ampere. Anyone upgrading a single generation is just a fool with money. 

I meant people who were upgrading from anything else, if you didnt want to upgrade to ampere, the fact that the price performance for the 40 cards did not change and that it got even more expensive, its not an incentive. 

 

do you though? 3080ti was a 950 dollar card at launch, 4080 was 1200. 
You got 35% more performance for 25% more dollars. True, its not as stagnant, but come on, same price?

I mean unless tomshardware is lying and is sloppy enough to research their stuff it was the same launch price of $1199

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti#:~:text=As the Nvidia GeForce RTX,than the %241%2C499 RTX 3090.

 

and just in case here is some more evidence

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22461660/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-specs-price-release-date-features

https://hothardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-launch-msrp-retail

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidia-rtx-3080-ti-price-drops-to-msrp-for-first-time-available-for-1209-now/

and from nvidias own release

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-3080-ti-3070-ti-graphics-cards/

 

the internet remembers everything

[starsmine]

1 minute ago, Digitaltantrum said:

I mean unless tomshardware is lying and is sloppy enough to research their stuff it was the same launch price of $1199

the MSRP and market price goes down after launch. 

Notice how things like the 6700xt are 300 USD now when launch MSRP was 480.

[Digitaltantrum]

8 minutes ago, starsmine said:

the MSRP and market price goes down after launch. 

Notice how things like the 6700xt are 300 USD now when launch MSRP was 480.

Oh Great thats true so in a while we should see the 4080 go down in price. even better but I will say if you want to save a bit of money that AMD 7900 xtx card is a good deal comparatively 

[YoungBlade]

34 minutes ago, Digitaltantrum said:

ok so you get waaaaay better performance in the 4080 than the 3080 ti for the same price...youre welcome

But again, the 3080Ti was a terrible value card. It had only a 10% uplift from the $700 3080 but cost 70% more money.

 

So the fact that the 4080 is 50% faster, but costs 70% more again, means that, again in terms of value, it goes backwards. This is bad. Cards should be improving in value with each generation. All of the 40 series cards should be better value than all of the 30 series cards, but they are not, and the 4080 is the worst of the lot.

 

The only cards so far that are actually better value than all previous 30 series cards are the 4060 and 4060 Ti, which are both dumb, because their generational uplift is in the single digits. The best one in terms of value compared to previous MSRP pricing is the 4060, which is a whopping 7% better value than the 3060 Ti - the best value card of the last generation - according to Techspot's review.

 

That is the problem with the 40 series - the value is not there. I don't care about absolute performance, I care about value for money. The card to beat truly is the 3060 Ti, but if you want to keep the comparison to only flagship tier cards, then the card to beat is the 3080, and the 4080 fails to do that. So does the 4070 Ti. The 4070 does, but by that point, we are well away from this generation's flagship levels of performance, and it loses in value to the 3060 Ti.

 

Compare that with the 30 series cards - where everything from the 3080 down was an improvement in value - even the bad cards like the 3070 Ti and 3050 are better than all the 20 series cards in terms of value at MSRP.

[Digitaltantrum]

11 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

But again, the 3080Ti was a terrible value card. It had only a 10% uplift from the $700 3080 but cost 70% more money.

 

So the fact that the 4080 is 50% faster, but costs 70% more again, means that, again in terms of value, it goes backwards. This is bad. Cards should be improving in value with each generation. All of the 40 series cards should be better value than all of the 30 series cards, but they are not, and the 4080 is the worst of the lot.

 

The only cards so far that are actually better value than all previous 30 series cards are the 4060 and 4060 Ti, which are both dumb, because their generational uplift is in the single digits. The best one in terms of value compared to previous MSRP pricing is the 4060, which is a whopping 7% better value than the 3060 Ti - the best value card of the last generation - according to Techspot's review.

 

That is the problem with the 40 series - the value is not there. I don't care about absolute performance, I care about value for money. The card to beat truly is the 3060 Ti, but if you want to keep the comparison to only flagship tier cards, then the card to beat is the 3080, and the 4080 fails to do that. So does the 4070 Ti. The 4070 does, but by that point, we are well away from this generation's flagship levels of performance, and it loses in value to the 3060 Ti.

 

Compare that with the 30 series cards - where everything from the 3080 down was an improvement in value - even the bad cards like the 3070 Ti and 3050 are better than all the 20 series cards in terms of value at MSRP.

so explain to me why cards should be improving in value with each generation?

if im putting in a lot of RnD thats overhead. that has to be paid for somehow

 

lets be completely transparent...im not saying that the 4080 is the greatest value. Im saying the issue is being blown out of proportion and we are expecting too much.

 

its completely reasonable to say, I made a better product and im going to charge more for it.  and again, the 4070 performs same or better (especially in RT) for less money. I think that covers your better value. its also been noted there are cheeper and in some cases better performing options with AMD over the 4080. so you get to vote with your dollars.

[starsmine]

17 minutes ago, Digitaltantrum said:

so explain to me why cards should be improving in value with each generation?

if im putting in a lot of RnD thats overhead. that has to be paid for somehow

 

lets be completely transparent...im not saying that the 4080 is the greatest value. Im saying the issue is being blown out of proportion and we are expecting too much.

 

its completely reasonable to say, I made a better product and im going to charge more for it.  and again, the 4070 performs same or better (especially in RT) for less money. I think that covers your better value. its also been noted there are cheeper and in some cases better performing options with AMD over the 4080. so you get to vote with your dollars.

Because of how you are making a better product.
Its via the node. 

Nvidia did two node jumps 
(samsung 8nm, which is a varient of 10nm (names are confusing I know) to TSMC 4N, a varient of their 5nm (note, nm do not mean nm), They leap frogged the 7nm node.

Thats where 80% of the improvements come from are the node shrinks. The new chips are better because

A, More transistors in smaller package, as in exponentially higher yields for the same amount of transistors(I dont mean it runs away, I mean its a 2nd order equation, mm^2 and all that), and more dies per wafer. 
B, smaller voltage gaps, as in higher clocks for less watts. Less watts means less spent on VRMs and cooling for same performance. 

The SAME performance is CHEAPER to manufacture. 
MORE performance is the SAME cost to manufacture

And its also not like Ampere didnt have R&D, accounting for that in Ada-Lovelace costing more belies the fact it was already accounted for.

I dont know what you mean by blown out of proportion, No one here is denying that its a bad card. Just no one here would ever recommend the card at its price. I aint gonna stop a person from spending money on it, I just wont suggest a person do that. If someone asks, I will say there are better choices out there.

[YoungBlade]

30 minutes ago, Digitaltantrum said:

so explain to me why cards should be improving in value with each generation?

if im putting in a lot of RnD thats overhead. that has to be paid for somehow

 

lets be completely transparent...im not saying that the 4080 is the greatest value. Im saying the issue is being blown out of proportion and we are expecting too much.

 

its completely reasonable to say, I made a better product and im going to charge more for it.  and again, the 4070 performs same or better (especially in RT) for less money. I think that covers your better value. its also been noted there are cheeper and in some cases better performing options with AMD over the 4080. so you get to vote with your dollars.

Cards should improve in value because each generation gets cheaper to produce for a given performance level. As transistors shrink and chips become more efficient, they require less silicon and use less power to give the same performance level. This also makes the rest of a card cheaper, as power delivery and cooling requirements are reduced.

 

That savings should be passed along to consumers, at least to an extent, in a healthy market. Notice that CPUs are better value than the previous generation - this trend is still ongoing.

 

We may eventually reach a point where value cannot be expected to improve with each generation as we get closer to atom sized transistors. However, that day is not today. So Nvidia is just pumping up margins without giving consumers more value. Because I'm pro consumer, to me, this is bad.

[thejackalope]

5 hours ago, Digitaltantrum said:

why are you getting stuck on naming instead of real numbers. Look at dollars vs performance. if the 4080 can outperform the 3090 ti then thats what you should be comparing it to

 

they moved the names around ...sooo what?  stop getting stuck on that. go do some research where you compare the current $699 dollar card to the previous 3080 which launched at $699 ...It will perform  better for the same launch price .

 

in this case its the 4070 which is $599 so you get the same or better performance for 100 dollars less than the 3080 ...youre welcome.

 

stop getting stuck on naming conventions

 

also, if the name is important to you for some reason the 4080 outperforms the 3080 by almost 50% (or more in some games) and is 40% more expensive...which absolutely tracks

If you're going to compare performance and price then you have to look at current prices, not prices from 3 years ago. A brand new 3080 is $629. Less than half the price of the 4080

[Digitaltantrum]

7 hours ago, thejackalope said:

If you're going to compare performance and price then you have to look at current prices, not prices from 3 years ago. A brand new 3080 is $629. Less than half the price of the 4080

again you are stuck on the name. disregard the names, and only judge the hardware. if I said you can have this 4 cylinder car from several years ago. or this faster newer car (regardless if they are both new) and the newer faster car was more expensive noone would bllink an eye

 

hey why is the 2023 lexus more expensive than the 2017 toyota camry?

[thejackalope]

I'm no

36 minutes ago, Digitaltantrum said:

again you are stuck on the name. disregard the names, and only judge the hardware. if I said you can have this 4 cylinder car from several years ago. or this faster newer car (regardless if they are both new) and the newer faster car was more expensive noone would bllink an eye

 

hey why is the 2023 lexus more expensive than the 2017 toyota camry?

I'm not stuck on the name. I'm looking at performance and the 4080 is 33% more powerful but 100% higher price

[Digitaltantrum]

17 hours ago, thejackalope said:

I'm no

I'm not stuck on the name. I'm looking at performance and the 4080 is 33% more powerful but 100% higher price

I see your point fair enough