Is there any chance for the Huawai/Google ban to be lifted?

[7412]

Huawei keep pumping out phones and they look like real competition to the flagships we can actually buy.

 

Why can't politics be as simple as: "Biden does not like Trump, therefore he'll undo what Trump did"? 

My childish, black and white worldview would solve a lot of world problems. And create countless new ones, but that's besides the point.

[Ydfhlx]

Not a chance currently. It's geopolitics.

[Thomas4]

Yes thee are 2 chances, slim and none.

[dizmo]

Hopefully highly unlikely.

[ZetZet]

If China stopped planning dystopian nightmares I would agree that Huawei phones look decent.

[LapsedMemory]

38 minutes ago, 7412 said:

Huawei keep pumping out phones and they look like real competition to the flagships we can actually buy.

 

Why can't politics be as simple as: "Biden does not like Trump, therefore he'll undo what Trump did"? 

My childish, black and white worldview would solve a lot of world problems. And create countless new ones, but that's besides the point.

This isn't all about politics.  It has a healthy dose of national security concerns, which is why there's at least some bi-partisan support for the ban.  Huawei is (for all intents and purposes) controlled by the Chinese government, which has a history of forcing manufacturers to build in firmware level back doors to their hardware products.  

 

While there's been no public evidence of this in Huawei's case, there are sources that claim intelligence communities have had evidence they just haven't revealed to the public.  What intelligence agencies have stated to the public is that on it's face, Huawei's software is so full of glaring security holes that even if China wasn't purposely eavesdropping, it would be nearly logistically impossible to make the equipment secure enough to use anywhere near sensitive information.  

 

So to answer your question, there's very little chance the ban will be lifted.  The risk/reward cost of removing the ban is just too high.  

 

 

[solado]

2 minutes ago, LapsedMemory said:

This isn't all about politics.  It has a healthy dose of national security concerns, which is why there's at least some bi-partisan support for the ban.  Huawei is (for all intents and purposes) controlled by the Chinese government, which has a history of forcing manufacturers to build in firmware level back doors to their hardware products.  

 

While there's been no public evidence of this in Huawei's case, there are sources that claim intelligence communities have had evidence they just haven't revealed to the public.  What intelligence agencies have stated to the public is that on it's face, Huawei's software is so full of glaring security holes that even if China wasn't purposely eavesdropping, it would be nearly logistically impossible to make the equipment secure enough to use anywhere near sensitive information.  

 

So to answer your question, there's very little chance the ban will be lifted.  The risk/reward cost of removing the ban is just too high.  

 

 

If I am not mistaken too any Chinese company has to provide data access to the CCP at a whim by law.

 

 

[LapsedMemory]

1 minute ago, solado said:

If I am not mistaken too any Chinese company has to provide data access to the CCP at a whim by law.

 

 

That is my understanding as well.  Even if Huawai wasn't spying on its customers now, there's nothing that prevents China from forcing thru a "security patch" that opens up that door.  

[Erioch]

If they do, make sure you install Kaspersky on it.

[dogwitch]

8 hours ago, LapsedMemory said:

This isn't all about politics.  It has a healthy dose of national security concerns, which is why there's at least some bi-partisan support for the ban.  Huawei is (for all intents and purposes) controlled by the Chinese government, which has a history of forcing manufacturers to build in firmware level back doors to their hardware products.  

 

While there's been no public evidence of this in Huawei's case, there are sources that claim intelligence communities have had evidence they just haven't revealed to the public.  What intelligence agencies have stated to the public is that on it's face, Huawei's software is so full of glaring security holes that even if China wasn't purposely eavesdropping, it would be nearly logistically impossible to make the equipment secure enough to use anywhere near sensitive information.  

 

So to answer your question, there's very little chance the ban will be lifted.  The risk/reward cost of removing the ban is just too high.  

 

 

 

usa does the same thing and have been caught doing it to.

oh and when they do. you as a person or company are not allowed to talk about it. under law....

[Beerzerker]

7 hours ago, dogwitch said:

 

usa does the same thing and have been caught doing it to.

oh and when they do. you as a person or company are not allowed to talk about it. under law....

It's like spying - They all do it but at the same time, no one admits to it.

China has a law that Chinese exchange students, wherever they are must perform spying activities for the CCP as directed by them or else - It's not the fault of the students since they didn't make the law nor enforce it, yet it's there so they do it - Or else.

Same security concerns about Huawei and others like TikToK and even Discord related to data gathering (Spying) have been noted because of ownership/partial ownership by the CCP and that says on it's own the same as it does for Huawei, I do know TikTok has also been talked about more than once recently because of it and Discord itself has been mentioned a couple of times about it.

And to be fair, the US and others as said, do it too concerning things about apps that report back but at least there are no laws making spying something you MUST do if abroad as a student, tourist or anything else. 
That's one of the big "Lines" crossed between the US and China if comparing the two.

So no, this ban on Huawei will most likely never be lifted and I woudn't be suprised if, sometime in the future more bans are done for the same reasons.

[solado]

9 hours ago, dogwitch said:

 

usa does the same thing and have been caught doing it to.

oh and when they do. you as a person or company are not allowed to talk about it. under law....

That's great and all but two wrong's don't make a right, One country is currently threatening genocide of a specific island and the other one is using my data for marketing.

 

One country currently has set up illegal police station's in foreign countries to monitor it's citizens.

One country forced 300,000 citizens home through threats of vioilence to their families etc.

One country in my country dragged a protestor onto their embassy ground's and beat them.

 

Not excusing domestic data collection but after certain world event's we should be more cautious of what aboutism.

[Sauron]

18 hours ago, solado said:

If I am not mistaken too any Chinese company has to provide data access to the CCP at a whim by law.

That's actually the case for US based companies to the US government as well.

 

I can see how maybe using these phones in government when a foreign government might have access to some or all the data you store would be a bad idea, however for general consumers it doesn't make much of a difference - and also it's not really a reason to prevent Google from giving them access to Gapps.

 

@7412you can get gapps and custom roms going on many huawei models so don't let the trade ban discourage you if you really want one.

[Imbadatnames]

10 hours ago, dogwitch said:

 

usa does the same thing and have been caught doing it to.

oh and when they do. you as a person or company are not allowed to talk about it. under law....

Aside from they don’t? The US does find security exploits but they cannot force companies to create a back door for them and they cannot force companies to hand them data without sufficient reason, the CCP has Carte Blanche. It’s also through a legal process that is documented, it might be redacted but it’s still public. 

[divito]

Don't like that Huawei has been singled out. Always enjoyed their phones. Meanwhile, some shady stuff has been found on Xiaomi software and they are still permitted.

[solado]

6 minutes ago, divito said:

Don't like that Huawei has been singled out. Always enjoyed their phones. Meanwhile, some shady stuff has been found on Xiaomi software and they are still permitted.

I think it started as Huawei was installing products in critical infrastrcuture which lead to the event's leading to it being black listed.

Xiaomi probably got away with it as they aren't doing above.

[wasab]

these sanctions against chinese companies are always funny. neccesity is the mother of all inventions. Before the ban, the chinese always rely on key western techonoliges like silicons chips. Now US is banning chinese companies from all these techs, it actually force the chinese to spend an ungodly amount of resources on their R&D and thus causing the opposite desired effect, fueling china's technolgical development rather than hamstrung it.

 

Before the chips banned, china can not produce chips that are on par with what the Americans had 10 years ago, after the ban, china SMIC suddenly came up with a working 7nm proccess node before even Intel had a working and scalable 7nm which is very ironic. 

[Neroon]

On 11/3/2022 at 6:50 PM, 7412 said:

Huawei keep pumping out phones and they look like real competition to the flagships we can actually buy.

 

Why can't politics be as simple as: "Biden does not like Trump, therefore he'll undo what Trump did"? 

My childish, black and white worldview would solve a lot of world problems. And create countless new ones, but that's besides the point.

So you want Biden to undo everything Trump did, regardless of whether it was a good choice?

 

I've definitely seen interesting stuff from Huawei, but if they can't keep the data away from their dictatorship, no one should be using it.

[7412]

19 hours ago, divito said:

Meanwhile, some shady stuff has been found on Xiaomi software and they are still permitted

This was my next question as an uninformed fool actually: what sets Xiaomi apart from Huawei in this whole story?

[LogicalDrm]

*** Thread locked ***

 

As premise here is strongly political, discussion will not be allowed.