Framework Laptop - Full CPU/Mainboard upgrade kit

[Dellenn]

Summary

Framework laptop company, whose entire premise is upgradeability & interchangeable parts finally lets you upgrade the CPU/mainboard. They have also released a 2.5GB ethernet adapter and revised top cover.

 

Quotes

Quote

Framework launched last year with the promise of building laptops that you could upgrade yourself with little more than a screwdriver and some patience. Now, 12 months after making its debut, the company is shipping out its first round of upgrade kits to keep those machines up to date. It’s a good start, as the outfit makes good on its pledges to make a modular, repairable machine and to bring existing users along with any future tweaks to the system. After almost breezily swapping out a first-generation mainboard for its replacement, I can say that we’re getting close to a brand new era for computing.

 

My thoughts

Depending on the CPU upgrade you choose, this could be a good solution to buying a whole new laptop every couple years. But the higher end chips get into "new laptop" prices, making the high end stuff a bit less accessible. Still, they're making good on the whole "upgrade every part of your machine" promise. Adding 2.5GB is a great upgrade as well.

 

Sources

https://www.engadget.com/framework-mainboard-upgrade-140042960.html?src=rss

[Senzelian]

That's nice.

 

Now we need one of two things to happen: 

1. Other manufacturers adopting the same principle.

2. Companies switching out their Lenovo/HP devices for Framework machines.

 

Edit: Imagine how cool it would be if local IT colleagues without having any certifications can replace vital parts of a laptop. Just recently the laptop of a user died in my company and it had to be send off to repair. If I could've done that at the location in maybe an hour or so, that would save a lot of money and resources. On top I could easily upgrade machines too. Everyone would have the same platform. 

 

[da na]

58 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

That's nice.

 

Now we need one of two things to happen: 

1. Other manufacturers adopting the same principle.

2. Companies switching out their Lenovo/HP devices for Framework machines.

 

Edit: Imagine how cool it would be if local IT colleagues without having any certifications can replace vital parts of a laptop. Just recently the laptop of a user died in my company and it had to be send off to repair. If I could've done that at the location in maybe an hour or so, that would save a lot of money and resources. On top I could easily upgrade machines too. Everyone would have the same platform. 

 

I work with my school's IT department and they've said that is why we use older laptops (Eg. EliteBook 8000 series, Latitude E6000 series) because they're quite easy to get into. Common things like RAM upgrade, HDD replacement, network card replacement, CPU upgrade can be done in under 10 minutes, things like keyboard or screen can be done in under 30. And, parts are quite cheap. 

[Franck]

14 minutes ago, Mel0n. said:

I work with my school's IT department and they've said that is why we use older laptops (Eg. EliteBook 8000 series, Latitude E6000 series) because they're quite easy to get into. Common things like RAM upgrade, HDD replacement, network card replacement, CPU upgrade can be done in under 10 minutes, things like keyboard or screen can be done in under 30. And, parts are quite cheap. 

Yes but on the other hand when you handle over 4k devices unless you have a massive IT department dedicated to this on top of usual printer and software issue having to just send of the laptop to HP for them to repair while you loan a backup laptop to that user for couple week until his own come back takes 20 minutes and no need to trouble shoot.

 

Don't get me wrong i own 2 Framework laptop from the 5th batch when it started but at work there are case that you simply dont have employee and time luxury to do repair yourself.

[wanderingfool2]

1 hour ago, Senzelian said:

Edit: Imagine how cool it would be if local IT colleagues without having any certifications can replace vital parts of a laptop. Just recently the laptop of a user died in my company and it had to be send off to repair. If I could've done that at the location in maybe an hour or so, that would save a lot of money and resources. On top I could easily upgrade machines too. Everyone would have the same platform. 

Not to mention sending things out for repair always does run a small risk of getting lost (and having vital information on a laptop disappear forever)...I know users shouldn't store it on the local drive, but users be users.  (I know someone at a different company who lost their laptop that contained all the files they worked on for the last year, no backups...needless to say they were fired, but it does speak a ton on how reliant some people are on having their laptop fixed quickly).

 

Honestly, I've had to send so many laptops away for keyboard repairs...not that I wasn't capable of it; but the process of taking out every single component (some factory over tightened screws) just to replace a keyboard takes too much time to justify (there are other higher important tasks that needed doing).  At least with something like framework the whole process is a lot simpler in the amount of time it takes to access components.

 

4 minutes ago, Franck said:

Yes but on the other hand when you handle over 4k devices unless you have a massive IT department dedicated to this on top of usual printer and software issue having to just send of the laptop to HP for them to repair while you loan a backup laptop to that user for couple week until his own come back takes 20 minutes and no need to trouble shoot.

Yea, agreed...I always tried having a second laptop available to quickly swap in the SSD.  Better for the mid-range business though where you don't necessarily have a bunch of spare laptops to swap around while waiting for another to be fixed.  I had someone who had a docking station that fried the MB (didn't know the power brick had caused it...just thought the laptop died).  Swapped the SSD, gave them the spare junky but same model laptop to use.  A week later it was fried, swapped the SSD into the last spare laptop and swapped them for the power brick they were using.  Another week goes by and the last spare laptop was fried, that's when I learned they also were using an old docking station in their office.  Needless to say, despite having multiple spare laptops that week I ran out.  Cobbled together one from the dead/to be fixed laptops, but repair-ability would have made it so much easier.

 

I do hope that eventually Framework does get down to roughly the same pricing as other manufacturers.  Even in the large scale management of devices, I could see the benefit of easy repairability.  Even the swapping of SSD's in a framework looks so much quicker, and the simplicity of some of the repairs.

 

e.g.  I use to do support calls as well, and during the easier support calls, I use to fix some of the old dot matrix printers as it's something that could be done without much additional focus or brainpower to concentrate on...compared to a modern non-repairable laptop where you need to specifically mark out which screw came from which hole...because each of them were a slightly different size...keeping extra sticky glue on hand because they hid screws under the feet pads.  So overall it could be a benefit having framework, as it can simplify the repair to the point that you could do the repair yourself.

 

The biggest hurdle though is their pricing.  If they can get the components down just a bit more so that it becomes more economical to do the repair, that would be great.

 

1 hour ago, Dellenn said:

But the higher end chips get into "new laptop" prices, making the high end stuff a bit less accessible

Yea, the pricing is a bit disappointing...but I'm wondering how much of this is because they still lack the economy of scale compared to other manufacturers.  I guess time will tell, if they sell enough of the upgrades to justify a lower pricing.  Even if they could pull off a hundred or two dollars less it'd be something that I would think would make Framework a really compelling option.

[Dellenn]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Yea, the pricing is a bit disappointing...but I'm wondering how much of this is because they still lack the economy of scale compared to other manufacturers.  I guess time will tell, if they sell enough of the upgrades to justify a lower pricing.  Even if they could pull off a hundred or two dollars less it'd be something that I would think would make Framework a really compelling option.

Agreed - they are big enough for where they are at the moment, but not enough to get the "big boy" pricing that other integrators can command.

[TetraSky]

Still waiting and hoping for a laptop with a dedicated GPU in it... Or at the very least a Ryzen APU for the better iGPU.

[Dabombinable]

6 hours ago, Senzelian said:

That's nice.

 

Now we need one of two things to happen: 

1. Other manufacturers adopting the same principle.

2. Companies switching out their Lenovo/HP devices for Framework machines.

 

Edit: Imagine how cool it would be if local IT colleagues without having any certifications can replace vital parts of a laptop. Just recently the laptop of a user died in my company and it had to be send off to repair. If I could've done that at the location in maybe an hour or so, that would save a lot of money and resources. On top I could easily upgrade machines too. Everyone would have the same platform. 

 

Switching from Lenovo/HP would be a stretch. The high school I went to has only recently switched from Dell to HP after getting sick and tired of the extremely shitty computers from them - and they had been planning the switch over 10 years ago,

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah now to see this more of a standard would be good. Also need to see a gaming one with dGPU etc.

[Kronoton]

So instead of a resell-able used laptop you now have a motherboard which would only have a resale value if they had been failing left and right.

 

Something like can make sense in places were the old laptop would have been discarded (either of laziness or "security" reasons).

It will have a negative impact in places were the old devices are still sought after in the used markets.

It will be a waste in places that never care about upgrades and just buy new every x years.

 

So IMO this was always little more than fan-service for geeks and tinkerers, which might be nice but would serve no goal in the greater market. Markets that are sensitive to adding points of failure and cost (every extra connector, every extra screw etc).

 

[leadeater]

23 hours ago, Franck said:

Yes but on the other hand when you handle over 4k devices unless you have a massive IT department dedicated to this on top of usual printer and software issue having to just send of the laptop to HP for them to repair while you loan a backup laptop to that user for couple week until his own come back takes 20 minutes and no need to trouble shoot.

 

Don't get me wrong i own 2 Framework laptop from the 5th batch when it started but at work there are case that you simply dont have employee and time luxury to do repair yourself.

HP does onsite repair, I've never sent an HP laptop away. Lenovo yes, but they also have onsite repair too. Both even have customer self repair if you want also, no all parts allowed ofc.

 

23 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Not to mention sending things out for repair always does run a small risk of getting lost (and having vital information on a laptop disappear forever)...I know users shouldn't store it on the local drive, but users be users.

It's been about 8 years, still no sign of the original Lenovo laptop sent away for repair. I new one came, not being told about this btw, but the original one not even Lenovo knew where it was 

 

23 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Honestly, I've had to send so many laptops away for keyboard repairs...not that I wasn't capable of it; but the process of taking out every single component (some factory over tightened screws) just to replace a keyboard takes too much time to justify (there are other higher important tasks that needed doing).  At least with something like framework the whole process is a lot simpler in the amount of time it takes to access components.

Why aren't you utilizing HP onsite repair, far as I know it doesn't cost any extra. If it does it's part of the original purchase options so I'd advise if that is the case opt for it, it'll be not a lot extra.

[leadeater]

44 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

So instead of a resell-able used laptop you now have a motherboard which would only have a resale value if they had been failing left and right.

 

Something like can make sense in places were the old laptop would have been discarded (either of laziness or "security" reasons).

It will have a negative impact in places were the old devices are still sought after in the used markets.

It will be a waste in places that never care about upgrades and just buy new every x years.

 

So IMO this was always little more than fan-service for geeks and tinkerers, which might be nice but would serve no goal in the greater market. Markets that are sensitive to adding points of failure and cost (every extra connector, every extra screw etc).

 

I think it's a little early to really say how it will turn out, people would first have to actually do mainboard upgrade on any sort of scale. Also anyone could buy a used working mainboard and also a new/used chassis and get it up and running again if they really wanted.

 

The better option is for Framework to offer a returns program where if you send parts back you get credit on new ones and then they take the returned parts, Q/A them and then turn them back in to working laptops again that can either be sold as "ex-lease"/"refurbished" or some other product line, these directly sold through Framework's retail channels.

 

A returns program would give much better device back in to the ecosystem that will last longer and be safer for the consumer/purchaser, all while reducing waste.

 

Framework simply isn't going to overtake or even get anywhere near HP/Dell/Lenovo/Acer etc, worst case these adopt close enough and basically shut Framework out of the market or Framework gets brought out by one of these can becomes it's own product line under that brand. Or we accept that maybe Framework just wants to be a smaller boutique vendor doing their own thing for their own reasons.

[Kronoton]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Also anyone could buy a used working mainboard and also a new/used chassis and get it up and running again if they really wanted.

 

"Slightly outdated used parts Lego laptop"......

 

-> still a good idea for the 1% of the market that is geeks&tinkerers and a brainfart for the remaining 99%.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Kronoton said:

 

"Slightly outdated used parts Lego laptop"......

 

-> still a good idea for the 1% of the market that is geeks&tinkerers and a brainfart for the remaining 99%.

Might pay to read past that 

[Kronoton]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Might pay to read past that 

 

To what point? Have a technician look over parts that are outdated, assemble them into a mid-tier (or low tier depending on how well the parts have aged) laptop that the then have to market  as "used" while still giving a proper warranty.

 

Yeah thats gonna work out....

[porina]

If this takes off it could be like the desktop used market. There'll be people on older tiers looking for a cheap upgrade that is still far from cutting edge. It will take some generations to get to this point, and has to start somewhere.

[wanderingfool2]

35 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Why aren't you utilizing HP onsite repair, far as I know it doesn't cost any extra. If it does it's part of the original purchase options so I'd advise if that is the case opt for it, it'll be not a lot extra.

Because the choice of the brand of laptops is out of my control.  Luckily I do get the input on the type of servers deployed, but not the laptop deployment.  There was also the general issue of under funding the IT department [literal sense we talked about Windows 7 EOL for years and needing to replace all the old equipment that can't be upgraded...and they only partially fund it because it wouldn't look good on the Q1/Q2/Q3/Q4 2018/2019 investor relations having a million in equipment purchases and b/c the US division hadn't finished their replacement plan]. 

 

 

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It's been about 8 years, still no sign of the original Lenovo laptop sent away for repair. I new one came, not being told about this btw, but the original one not even Lenovo knew where it was 

I heard similar stories back in my uni days.  Fellow students sending in their laptops and then it getting "lost" in the warehouse.

 

1 hour ago, Kronoton said:

So instead of a resell-able used laptop you now have a motherboard which would only have a resale value if they had been failing left and right.

 

Something like can make sense in places were the old laptop would have been discarded (either of laziness or "security" reasons).

It will have a negative impact in places were the old devices are still sought after in the used markets.

It will be a waste in places that never care about upgrades and just buy new every x years.

 

So IMO this was always little more than fan-service for geeks and tinkerers, which might be nice but would serve no goal in the greater market. Markets that are sensitive to adding points of failure and cost (every extra connector, every extra screw etc).

 

The way I look at it, if Framework got to large scale [however unlikely], you would start getting a resell of the MB.

 

Lots of people I know keep their laptop until it breaks or is unusable, at which point it's e-waste anyways.  It's better that they can now just buy an upgrade it and fix it themselves (or someone even slightly knowledgeable they know).  It's better throwing away a single component than the entire laptop.

 

For those who do upgrades before the end of usable life, they could just sell the old MB to someone.  The benefit of Framework is that they make it really easy to essentially build the laptop out of the scraps essentially.  Actually what's more likely to happen, they bring it to someone they know to quickly replace...and give the spare components to the person that helped them (at which point they can build up a spare laptop and just sell it or such).  [I have so many old computers from when I helped out relatives in the past]

[Kronoton]

1 minute ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The way I look at it, if Framework got to large scale [however unlikely], you would start getting a resell of the MB.

 

That is the issue. It all works with a small defined part of the market, but at "scale" you end up with most parts being to old by the time the average consumer wants an upgrade.

 

Framework would get plenty parts that they can't rework into a working laptop and sell it with an healthy margin. Some parts simple won't be reusable if you sell them as refurbished like cases and keyboards which will show wear. Just look at how Apple does even with most of the units being barely used returns at current spec.

 

It would also make it very hard to get any update into the lineup that requires any kind of retooling or the they will face fragmentation on the replacement parts. Like a 20th i7/RTX8060 mobo that will only fit in 2022-2024 shells and a different one for newer one.

 

Sure "make it a standard", but just look at desktop where those standards where defined 30+ years ago and how well they work with 2022 tech (they don't, hence most cases are just brute force cooling in the hope that something will hit the hot spots).

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Kronoton said:

To what point? Have a technician look over parts that are outdated, assemble them into a mid-tier (or low tier depending on how well the parts have aged) laptop that the then have to market  as "used" while still giving a proper warranty.

 

Yeah thats gonna work out....

I never said anything about "proper" warranty and you just literally invalidated your argument and criticism versus regular laptops being able to be repurposed after original usage. Did you just want something to complain about? Seems like it.

 

Ex-lease sales are already a thing, quite big in fact, no they don't come with anything more than 30 day warranty unless you pay extra to extended it, typically 1 year maximum. This is still worse than parts return program and a proper refurbish, but that's costly so it would have to be done by a business that ideologically supports such a thing i.e. Framework.

 

Or to quote you and then have yourself refute yourself

2 hours ago, Kronoton said:

So instead of a resell-able used laptop

 

1 hour ago, Kronoton said:

To what point? Have a technician look over parts that are outdated, assemble them into a mid-tier (or low tier depending on how well the parts have aged) laptop that the then have to market  as "used" while still giving a proper warranty.

 

Good point yourself, an old outdated laptop isn't useful to everyone, but it is to some. 

 

12 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

Some parts simple won't be reusable if you sell them as refurbished like cases and keyboards which will show wear.

You know you can put the parts in a new chassis, it's not like those are actually expensive.

[Kronoton]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Ex-lease sales are already a thing, quite big in fact, no they don't come with anything more than 30 day warranty unless you pay extra to extended it, typically 1 year maximum

 

Which is only viable if:

1) the used laptop still has an high enough value

2) you can buy them in bulk and cheap

3) little to no effort is needed to make them viable for resale

 

1) Framework has no name clout and the laptops aren't that expensive when new

2) the "idea" was buying used parts back and then have a technician build a "new" unit out of them, which kills 3) 

 

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

but that's costly so it would have to be done by a business that ideologically supports such a thing i.e. Framework.

 

So like the goodwill electronic recyclers that already do that accepting that a great parts of the stuff they get for free will still be discarded. Sure works just not "at scale".

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

2) the "idea" was buying used parts back and then have a technician build a "new" unit out of them, which kills 3) 

No it in fact makes 3 the most viable since you or any consumer doesn't have to care, it's Framework making the laptops again not you or anyone else. "You" don't have to care, "you" got your parts return credit and can use that to buy new parts or discount on entire new laptop.

 

Even a small vendor like Framework would get plenty of volume of parts back if such a program was offered, it doesn't have to be huge volume at all, just large enough to have some kind of supply of laptops to sell and I can sure bet having some more trustworthy options out there for cheap that aren't ebay would be appreciated by more than zero people.

 

Also given the fact that companies exist that do this very thing already shows it's viable anyway, and we are talking about laptops and parts designed around modularity and replaceability so unless the part is actually broken it's reusability is 100% guaranteed. 

 

15 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

you can buy them in bulk and cheap

This is not a requirement, if a person wants a cheap laptop and they can get one this way then the requirement is 1, not bulk. Lots of inventory goes to waste when product lines are updated, this is where combing old parts with new makes the most sense and who better to do it than the original manufacturer.

 

Clearly you are only here to dump on Framework, irrespective of good or bad points. Enjoy that mindset, I don't think this will go anywhere beyond this.

[Kronoton]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Even a small vendor like Framework would get plenty of volume of parts back if such a program was offered,

 

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

This is not a requirement, if a person wants a cheap laptop and they can get one this way then the requirement is 1, not bulk.

 

So what are we even talking about? A small group of individuals scrapping together parts for 1 laptop (aka something I never had an issue with) or a company buying old parts to build a new laptops (aka doing it at scale)?

 

For the later it is quite simple, a laptop thrown together from 3-5 year old parts with a worn battery and imperfect case would sell for what? Substract handling and shipping, at least 1 hour of skilled labour and some small parts that had be replaced with new ones and you won't find much of a profit margin unless you bought the parts at a few ct on the $.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Kronoton said:

For the later it is quite simple, a laptop thrown together from 3-5 year old parts with a worn battery and imperfect case would sell for what?

Or how about a returned mainboard put in to a new chassis and a new battery sold as refurbished... you know, like the scenario I actually said.

[Kronoton]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Or how about a returned mainboard put in to a new chassis and a new battery sold as refurbished... you know, like the scenario I actually said.

 

So build  something that costs almost as much as a current spec one only with an outdated mobo and sell it at what price? Calling it "used" and not offering a proper warranty won't fly for such a product and since FrameWork has no way of knowing how much abuse it might have went trough it might be cheaper/easier to just offer something new&low end at the same price point.

 

It sounds like a good idea, I just don't see a point where it would make economic sense in a market that is low margin (read low to mid tier laptops).

[wanderingfool2]

2 hours ago, Kronoton said:

 

That is the issue. It all works with a small defined part of the market, but at "scale" you end up with most parts being to old by the time the average consumer wants an upgrade.

 

Framework would get plenty parts that they can't rework into a working laptop and sell it with an healthy margin. Some parts simple won't be reusable if you sell them as refurbished like cases and keyboards which will show wear. Just look at how Apple does even with most of the units being barely used returns at current spec.

 

It would also make it very hard to get any update into the lineup that requires any kind of retooling or the they will face fragmentation on the replacement parts. Like a 20th i7/RTX8060 mobo that will only fit in 2022-2024 shells and a different one for newer one.

 

Sure "make it a standard", but just look at desktop where those standards where defined 30+ years ago and how well they work with 2022 tech (they don't, hence most cases are just brute force cooling in the hope that something will hit the hot spots).

...maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but you seem to be contracting yourself a bit in terms of the logic you are applying to this whole thing.

 

If you are saying that the parts will be too old by the time the average consumer wants an upgrade, then I can make the exact same argument behind selling and old laptop.  At which point Framework would be better because instead of trashing the screen, chassis, and SSD you could simply buy a new MB and you are on the way.

 

Also, desktop standard work quite well.  It starts failing when you have the pre-builts that don't follow the standards, but at the moment if I wanted to really upgrade my computer I could purchase a new MB and CPU and be on my way.

 

The fact is Framework has some pretty good use-cases if they become large scale enough to actually be able to provide the MB/Upgrades at a more reasonable cost.  Even businesses might go towards it, if instead of upgrading everyones laptops by purchasing brand new ones they could simply replace the MB/CPU at a reduced pricing.  I know at a few places of work costs play a huge factor in getting approval.

 

Eventually yea they probably will come up with a new form factor, but it's not like it's as doom and gloom as you are portraying it.  Laptops have roughly been staying the same size for years now (with the trend being thinner if anything...but now they are being limited by the connector sizes really).  That in itself implies they should be able to still have MB's that are compatible with that form factor.  The biggest thing is GPU editions, but that's going to have to be a new line up anyways....and even then they might be able to fit it into the same form-factor.