[Updated] Apple  WWDC 2022 - What was announced and stuff

[saltycaramel]

iPad vs Mac from the horse’s mouth: just buy both

 

https://youtu.be/WfnvsepVJC0?t=3290

 

edit: stay on the video a couple of minutes more for the next segment about gaming

[Paul Thexton]

7 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

iPad vs Mac from the horse’s mouth: just buy both

 

https://youtu.be/WfnvsepVJC0?t=3290

 

Given the absurd size of some premium phones (especially foldables), I’d argue it’s not just Mac/iPad users who buy both.

[hishnash]

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

Considering that all console vendors have somehow standardized on a bluetooth protocol. Maybe the next thing will be a standard portable save game and game license system, where you can play any game on any platform, but only need to buy it on one of them. Transfer the savegame to another console and it copies the license with it as long as you logged into it with the same email (or better token.)

 

So one interesting point about apple App Store rules is that unless you have a good reason if a user has paid for content on another platform you are required to give them that content on apple platforms if you use the App Store (apple unlike Sony, does not want to cut of this.. as long as you did not direct the user to the other platform to buy from the apple platforms app). 

As to save game formats being portable, I think that is less likly to happen, for offline games (that have the concept of saved games) to have working cross platform save game concept you need to be at least mostly inline with updates across all platofroms and that just does not happen. Some game platforms will be months if not years ahead of others for the same game, unless your very deliberate about your save game format this means games saved on those newer versions are not going to work when you open them on the older version. Of course long term (maybe not that long term) we might no really have real single player offline games anymore and more single player online worlds were the game state is saved server side, this will force vendors to keep updated across platforms unless they want to maintain many game servers, it might depend on the pressure to support crossplay and co-op cross play. 

Within apple platforms apple has been pushing devs to provide continuity support for games, (aka play on your phone, open your make and see the icon for the game in the doc through continuity clicking it should then open the game and let you carry on just were you were on your phone..) this is part of a massive number of features apple have built on-top of a really old NSUserActivity. This is used by a load of system features, effecivly apps are support to regular inform the system about "what the user is doing within the app in such a way that if the system tells the app to open and continue from that point the app can continue at the point" apple then share this info between device you are signed in on and use proximately etc but also other things to predict what activity you might want to resume at a given time. For example in the evening after cleaning I tend to sit down to play some casual racing games my apple devices have picked up on this an now regardless of the device I pickup at this time the os suggests I resume one of my games.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

iPad vs Mac from the horse’s mouth: just buy both

 

What people have been doing isn't a reason to not offer a new better device that offers the functions and capabilities of both no longer requiring both. Of course Apple will say buy both, 1 sale vs 2 sales 

 

MacBook Air with detachable keyboard with dual OS modes would be sweet, can't see any reason why that would be a problem or worse in any real way. We have M1 powered iPads already and you can pair keyboards with them too, what you cannot do is use one like the other.

[hishnash]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

MacBook Air with detachable keyboard with dual OS modes would be sweet,

would be a nightmare as a developer for the platform... well maybe in 5 years once most apps have been re-writen in swiftUI it might well be easy for the os to transition to touch first for apps but as it is write now if your app has any AppKit views they will be basicly impossible to use properly with touch..  I suppose they could trigger a ultra zoomed in mode with the screen scaling up 800 by 600pt or somthing but if they want to keep apps as they are macOS would be basicly un-usable (so many bits of UI expect hover, keyboard shortcuts etc to do things)

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, hishnash said:

would be a nightmare as a developer for the platform...

It wouldn't because you don't have to share Apps between OS modes. In iOS mode, then can only see and use iOS apps. In Mac OS mode then can only see and use Mac OS Apps. That's the point of mode switching, it's one or the other not some jumbled mixed thing you're thinking of.

 

You don't have to merge apps or OS's at all, just be able to switch between them nicely on a single device powered by what is already the same hardware.

 

Apple's not going to do it for literally the reason they stated in the video, people already buy both so why throw away those sales...

[Video Beagle]

17 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

The question is if they’re now willing to expand into AAA gaming as well or it will just be a “nice to have” here and there (just like their Apple TV+ streaming service, it’s not enough to be your one and only service, just a “nice to have” and added value to the service bundle).

 

See, with due respect to your knoweldge as a developer and the entire "Apple ideas aren't just about money makers"... Apple TV+ isn't being treated as a "just nice to have" addition to the streaming cosmos...it's postiitioned as a PREMIUM content provider. There's serious investment going on there...not to fill it out with tons of programs to fill hours...but for elite level content.

 

Which means.. I dunno. Maybe the bits and bobs they've done IS just "why not" in the gaming field... but that really doesn't feel like the Apple way.

[saltycaramel]

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

MacBook Air with detachable keyboard with dual OS modes would be sweet, can't see any reason why that would be a problem or worse in any real way.

 

The idea of a toaster-fridge Mac-iPad, sporting a dual-OS-with-quick-switching-between-OSes system, is not impossible to imagine (in a “nothing is impossible if they truly super duper wanted it to happen, any other business and technical consideration notwithstanding” sense, a line of thinking that rarely goes anywhere), but to me presents a number of hurdles, including:

- economic incentives in developing it (2 sales are better than 1 sale, as mentioned, but also the risk of not striking the right balance in terms of price for the toaster-fridge and making it a less appealing value proposition, since of course Apple would pass any added BOM/developing cost onto the final users, even those who couldn’t care less about a touchscreen and iPadOS)

- political incentives in the internal conflicts inside Apple and the PTSD about the dark ages of Mac in the 2010s, not sure there’s anybody there who would greenlight such a project

- risk of weird incoherent messaging to the dev community and messing up the (already problematic) incentives for developing for macOS, since you can fallback to iPadOS

- risk of technical hurdles and pitfalls of concocting such a system, let’s not pretend there aren’t any

- other technical considerations (top-heavy display, stifling display innovation on the Mac side because you have also shove the motherboard/batteries in the screen, etc.), it’s not a free “nice to have” without consequences and compromises attached

 

Now, if instead we’re talking about gradually converging the user experiences of the 2 OSes (see Stage Manager being released on both) and the availability of 3rd party apps (after all, macOS already run iPadOS apps if the devs choose so), and a couple of years down the line release a macOS_device_with_touch (no iPadOS involved at all), that I could maybe see it happening. Then again I think about the MS Surface Book and…I’m left not super enthusiastic about this concept, but we’ll see. 

 

That said, I’d like to point out that the current new breed of Apple laptops (fall 2021 14.2”/16,2” miniLED MBPs, and June 2022 M2 MacBook Air) are the best notebook computers of all times exactly because they’ve already received a nice bucketful of features from the iPad/iPhone side of the business, namely

- Apple Silicon SoCs of iPads

- a powerful CPU even at the low end

- a powerful GPU as the baseline (the fact that every M2 fanless Macbook Air out of the gate and every cheap 599$ M2 Mac Mini will sport to the very least GTX 1060 ballpark GPU power is mindblowing and makes you wonder what this will mean for gaming in the future)

- the efficiency and battery life of iPads, or even better

- the instant-on experience of iPads

- the 264ppi display density of iPads (MBP only)

- the 120Hz ProMotion from iPad Pro (MBP only)

- the gorgeous XDR miniLED display from iPad Pro (MBP only)

- a number of handy iPad/iPhone apps that run directly on macOS, a checkmark away for the devs to allow it

- a competent webcam, still no match for the thicker iPads/iPhones front cams, but competent nonetheless

 

Sure there are still some things that didn’t make the jump (5G connectivity, touch/pencil, etc.) but I can say my appetite for iPad features to be brought over to Mac is pretty satisfied, it’s a dream come true if compared to even 3 years ago. 

[Paul Thexton]

22 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

toaster-fridge

 

I guess I can kind of see why some people would find it a compelling device. I can’t count myself in that group though, for one thing personally I find 10”+ sized tablets extraordinarily ungainly to use.

 

I can already hear the complaints from the parallel universe where Apple actually did this “Why does it switch between OSes? That’s so anti consumer, we have to pay for more storage, just pick an OS and fix it for the other use case blah blah blah”

[hishnash]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

It wouldn't because you don't have to share Apps between OS modes. In iOS mode, then can only see and use iOS apps. In Mac OS mode then can only see and use Mac OS Apps. That's the point of mode switching, it's one or the other not some jumbled mixed thing you're thinking of.

 

You don't have to merge apps or OS's at all, just be able to switch between them nicely on a single device powered by what is already the same hardware.

That would be horrible, would it keep the other apps running in the background, or kill them, do you need to safely restart (like there was one detaching windows laptop like that in the last few years were some of it was in the keyboard so needed to be re-serated to be detached)

 

The other issue with detachable keyboards is weight, since the entier machine needs to fit within the screen to balance this the keyboard needs to weigh just as much as the screen.... what that means for an MBA is the enter device would almost double in weight unless the tablet mode had very little battery. 

[Kronoton]

13 hours ago, leadeater said:

MacBook Air with detachable keyboard with dual OS modes would be sweet,

 

Sounds good, but is a stupid idea.

 

IPadAir/Pro with Magic KBD is extremely top heavy and clumsy if you don't put it on a desk, while a MacBook's topcase is just the display with no battery or compute.

One could put a small battery and basic SoC into the topcase so it would work as a lowest level iPad but thats IMO a solution in search of a problem.

[leadeater]

34 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

IPadAir/Pro with Magic KBD is extremely top heavy and clumsy

True that is a good point, I had hoped the weight of the M1 iPads reduced a bit and that some things like extra battery and points be split and in the keyboard. I've used iPad with keyboard, older iPads, and it was really only good for long notes taking but that's more a failing point of iOS, or not really a failing point it's just not for that.

 

However the idea would be to have a proper detachable and more ridged keyboard that results in a true hinge like any other laptop, until you detach the keyboard. That negates more of the weight issue in the screen because the biggest problem with iPads and keyboards (when I used them) was they just sat on top with no proper connection so always a tip risk, real annoying.

 

34 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

so it would work as a lowest level iPad but thats IMO a solution in search of a problem.

Maybe or maybe not. If it functions and works perfectly as an iPad and also as a MacBook then that's almost saying either one of these devices is a solution in search of a problem. Doing it well really does have no draw backs, the only argument is IF it can be done well. I don't really see the argument that if it was it's pointless because then my retort is owning both an iPad and a MacBook is pointless, which it is not.

 

@hishnash As above, also iPad Air is slightly under 500g and MacBook Air is 1.27kg. Extra battery and board for more ports in the keyboard/base unit and getting a reasonable balance shouldn't be too difficult. I haven't thought about it too deeply, too late a night lol, but what accounts for most of the weight difference between these two devices? Majority is just the screen size?

[Kronoton]

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

As above, also iPad Air is slightly under 500g and MacBook Air is 1.27kg.

 

Well the iPA is much smaller than a 13" MBA so thats not really fair.

 

My 12" MB is 1KG and I'm sure the display part weighs less than my iPadMini6 and that is the absolute base of iPads in terms of weight and close to base in terms of compute.

 

You do want the laptop to be useable as a laptop, so 12" is the minimum, and you for sure want the iPad part to be fully useable, so display, front and back camera, battery, speakers and at least 1 port for charging and I/O.

 

On top of that you need a reliable connection (both electric and mechanic) and you end up with something either bulky or half-a#### (or both).

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

On top of that you need a reliable connection (both electric and mechanic) and you end up with something either bulky or half-a#### (or both).

I don't think so, there have already been some excellent 2-in-1 detaching systems that aren't bulky or useless, I'm sure Apple would do better than these since bottom dollar is almost never their design goal.

 

4 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

You do want the laptop to be useable as a laptop, so 12" is the minimum, and you for sure want the iPad part to be fully useable

You know being reminded that the size of a usable laptop is quite large is a good point on that alone. I think a 12" iPad would not be ergonomic and user friendly at all. For the same reason I hate large phones. So yea maybe it's a bad idea just because of that, nothing else matters if you actually hate to use the device that way.

 

I also prefer the iPad Mini over full size iPad soo... that was kinda dumb oversight lol

[rikitikitavi]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

I also prefer the iPad Mini over full size iPad soo... that was kinda dumb oversight lol

Unless, you can switch to macOS UX only when connecting to an external monitor w/peripherals, otherwise iOS only.

 

So apps that share Catalyst blueprint can be used in both mods, while exclusive apps - well, they are exclusive and don't 'show up' in the opposite mode. If 'pc' mode is active, then I guess it will be a bit slow when initializing connection (or disconnecting) to save states, kill processes etc...

 

That would be the distinction between iPads and low-tier MBs - your portable experience, iPad vs Mac. Otherwise, the desktop experience is the same (if enabled).

That's your 'toaster-fridge' @saltycaramel

 

Edit:

I'm still waiting for the dex style iPhone. I don't expect macOS on in, but some sort of simplified external display UI so it can be used as a very light-weight pc. Safari, email, docs - that would make it a great do-it-all device for some people. Especially with the WASM and streaming getting better, maybe even becoming the only device for most people, if not all.

[saltycaramel]

Apple could add on top of iPadOS a lightweight faux bare bone macOS GUI with no desktop apps actually working, only ipad apps.

 

This way they could satisfy the “I wanna see macOS running on a tablet” itch while skipping all the technical hurdles.

 

Nevermind, I was thinking of Windows RT. 

[leadeater]

14 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Apple could add on top of iPadOS a lightweight faux bare bone macOS GUI with no desktop apps actually working, only ipad apps.

 

This way they could satisfy the “I wanna see macOS running on a tablet” itch while skipping all the technical hurdles.

That doesn't satisfy it at all, the literal biggest want is the ability to run mac OS apps, anything not including that addresses nothing. But the reverse idea is actually better than the MacBook Air being the basis for it, iPad with a not annoying keyboard dock with a proper hinge.

 

However that fails the whole actually wanting to use it issue because the screen would be too small in laptop/MacOS mode and external monitor is just way to edge case to bother.

 

Edit:

Also you don't have to mess around and make some new different OS, the M1 in the iPad can run Mac OS perfectly because it's the very same as the ones in the MacBooks. One of the key things about M1 is the kill off of "this is a tablet SoC" and "this is a laptop SoC".

[Paul Thexton]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

One of the key things about M1 is the kill off of "this is a tablet SoC" and "this is a laptop SoC".

Yep. Only difference I’m aware of is that I think I read somewhere that the hypervisor is disabled on iPads but I don’t know if that’s a fuse they blow on the SOC to disable on hardware, or done entirely in the boot loader. 

[captain_to_fire]

On 6/11/2022 at 8:23 AM, leadeater said:

MacBook Air with detachable keyboard with dual OS modes would be sweet, can't see any reason why that would be a problem or worse in any real way. We have M1 powered iPads already and you can pair keyboards with them too, what you cannot do is use one like the other.

Few reasons why Apple won't likely do it

• Selling a touchscreen Mac would cannibalize their iPad sales. iPad sales worldwide has been reduced due to supply chain constraints and they don't want any dip in their sales any further.
• Many of Apple's customers are willing to buy a Mac and a separate tablet. Hence, Apple can remain a profitable company even if Microsoft and other PC OEMs are releasing 2-in-1 convertibles.
• Even on Windows 10/11 laptops and detachables, I think most people use a touchscreen once in a while but mostly on a trackpad. I bet that most people buying the Surface Pro are also buying the Type Cover keyboard because Windows is a desktop OS whose interface is designed for mice input that later got touchscreen capabilities. iPadOS on the other hand started as a touch first OS with finger gestures in mind that's why many people buying iPads can use it without the need of buying a Magic Keyboard.
• Apple is a company that responds to demand I think, though slow to respond. The iPhone 6/6+ was released because every phone out there was already big. The first iPad Pro was launched together with the Apple Pencil because there are people especially students who want to use their iPads as writing notebooks. Even when Adobe and Android users back in 2010 are bashing Apple for not allowing Flash to run on iOS, their customers didn't mind the lack of the browser plug-in.
• I think the reason why Apple decided to put an M1 chip on both the iPad Air and Pro is because once again of supply chain issues. The chip engineers at Apple can design an A14X or an A14Z but they didn't because doing so would just cause delays in due to the chip shortage. Why bother designing a new chip when they can just undervolt an M1 chip and disable some features and put it in an iPad.
• But I do agree that the M1 on the iPads are underutilized because of the lack of the Pro apps like FCP. A few reasons I can think off as to why someone would buy an iPad Pro with M1 is because of the 120 Hz Pro Motion display, a better Apple Pencil, and deeper blacks with mini LEDs despite the blooming.
•  

Edited June 12, 2022 by captain_to_fire

[Kronoton]

3 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

I think the reason why Apple decided to put an M1 chip on both the iPad Air and Pro is because once again of supply chain issues. The chip engineers at Apple can design an A14X or an A14Z but they didn't because doing so would just cause delays in due to the chip shortage. Why bother designing a new chip when they can just undervolt an M1 chip and disable some features and put it in an iPad.

 

I think you just fell for a marketing gimmick.

 

Back in 2020 "everyone" was guessing how an A14x chip for the 1st AS Mac would look and vast majorities of reasonable guesses proofed to be true by what Apple called the M1.

 

Or in short the M1 IS the A14x that would have gone into the next IPP even if there was no AS transition for the Mac. Sure it might have a bit more cache and some other tidbits to help with Rosetta but there was never even a possibility of Apple doing a separate chip for the iPP.

 

Now the iPAir getting the M1 this late (and at all) might have something to do with supply chain issues or it was just done so it could support all iPadOS16 features. Hard to know.

 

M2 being really just M1+ (aka A15 based) and the rumours about only the iPhonePro getting an A16 on the other hand is clearly a result of TSMC not having 3nm a full scale early enough.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

• Selling a touchscreen Mac would cannibalize their iPad sales. iPad sales worldwide has been reduced due to supply chain constraints and they don't want any dip in their sales any further.
• Many of Apple's customers are willing to buy a Mac and a separate tablet. Hence, Apple can remain a profitable company even if Microsoft and other PC OEMs are releasing 2-in-1 convertibles

Well yes I already said this  But remember these points are good for Apple and I do not care about any business in that way, at all.

 

Also 2-in-1 in the PC market exist as a market competition option to try and get the sale over another vendor, Apple doesn't really have to worry about that.

[Video Beagle]

23 hours ago, Paul Thexton said:

I guess I can kind of see why some people would find it a compelling device. I can’t count myself in that group though, for one thing personally I find 10”+ sized tablets extraordinarily ungainly to use.

While I appreciate the serious analysis this spur has generated, I'll mention again, as the one who started the side track on a 2-in-1 type thing, I just thing there's something very sci-fi about it :D....likely cuz on Stargate Atlantis, they had devices like that..and in Avatar...

 

I mean, these folding screen phones are dumb as hell..but cool.  where's the dumb as hell but cool sci fi tony stark stuff for us mac people?

[JogerJ]

iOS16 features: basically if anyone has questions about any of the listed items, just ask a Pixel user. 

[hishnash]

On 6/13/2022 at 9:41 PM, JogerJ said:

iOS16 features: basically if anyone has questions about any of the listed items, just ask a Pixel user. 

There are a load of features that android does not have, key amount these are all the shortcuts features, how apps can provide configurable actions to the os that users can the combine to build thier own automation workflows that then run either in the background or foreground whenever the user wants to, can be on a schedule, location change, when they tap a button, when the phone touches a RFID, a load of triggers thees are very complex and you can build shortcut automations that are 1000s of steps long mixing together features from 100s of apps.   The new app intents apis this year is going to make it so much easier for devs to provide really good shortcuts to their users, I fully expect this to explode when the os ships. Shortcuts really provides a very accessible way for non tec savvy users to do some very adanvaced tasks. 

[Dracarris]

On 6/13/2022 at 11:41 AM, JogerJ said:

iOS16 features: basically if anyone has questions about any of the listed items, just ask a Pixel user. 

hmm lets see: No.