Is 600W for a graphics card actually worth it for the performance buff or is it a cheap cop-out?

[Actual_Criminal]

The post is intended to just find out people's views (high-end users) on potentially using a 600W GPU. 

 

Obviously the majority of us have seen the leaks from reputable sources about the upcoming top-end cards having around 600W TDP. This is double the power of a RTX 3090.. If it turns out that the performance buff is around the average 20-30% (or even 40%) mark X%*, do you still say it is an 'upgrade'? 

 

The way I see it, it's like having a fast car and then inventing a 'better' car that is more powerful and takes you to your destination quicker by X%*, but it is significantly more inefficient because it uses double the fuel. Useful for some people of course, but I feel like it is sort of a cheat and not a proper generational leap.

 

Here in the UK, energy costs have doubled in the last 2 months and expect to triple by the end of the year + other cost of living increases. Meaning there is more of an incentive to use less electric where possible. Also, a lot of existing builds probably won't be able to just slot in a new 600W GPU without also upgrading the PSU and with disposable income down, inflation up and a supplier crisis with scalper prices, it really does not seem as appetizing as the 3000 series. 

 

What are people's thoughts? 

 

(Of course, this is just speculation on a GPU being 600W. It could well be 600W but provide 100%+ the performance for all we know until confirmed.)

[KhakiHat]

It's an interesting thought.

 

I think it will fall into the category of the users who just want raw performance. There are already users who want a 1200watt power supply just because. Or to have a 3080ti just to play league of legends or CS:GO, regardless of the actual use(GPU cores, VRAM, etc.) or the betterment of performance(Playing with a lower end card that does the same thing).

 

Then again, it will likely just be a phase where everything takes more power. GPU's haven't always been a high power consuming thing(with more power comes more power XD). I'm sure 10 or 20 years ago, no one would have guessed the current wattage usage and it allocations.

[Moonzy]

17 minutes ago, Actual_Criminal said:

What are people's thoughts? 

as long as they continue to improve on efficiency and deliver GPU at all ranges of wattage, idgaf if they release a 1000W GPU (i welcome it, personally)

options is key

[SupaKomputa]

1000w just to play games is criminal, should be outlawed. It cost as much as my Aircon. what a waste of energy.

[Actual_Criminal]

8 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

1000w just to play games is criminal, should be outlawed. It cost as much as my Aircon. what a waste of energy.

Indeed, plus if you include overclocking for the CPU/GPU, can be even more. 

 

My office/gaming room is soo small, I have to have aircon when playing intensive games otherwise the room heats up over 30°c in the winter (which I guess is good and eliminates my need for heating, lol) and 35°c-ish in the summer. 

 

My current energy bill for electricity alone for a single male in a 2 bedroom apartment is £130 a month, increasing to £180 and will be around £250 by the end of the year. 

 

I imagine an average-sized family could have bills in excess of £700pm by the end of 2022, which is crazy!

[Moonzy]

10 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

1000w just to play games is criminal, should be outlawed. It cost as much as my Aircon. what a waste of energy.

Then, how much is acceptable? How do you draw the line? Does games that use more power need to be outlawed?

[xg32]

14 hours ago, Actual_Criminal said:

.

pretty sure my old ass house cant handle a 600w gpu and even if it can it's cutting it close and im not gonna try. 

 

I might be simplifying here but a 3090ti is 2x a 1080ti...at twice the power, now round that down a bit to 300w, and the 600w card will be around 2x the powerdraw for 2x the performance, which is ~linear, im ok with that as long as the breakers can handle it. Since overclocking tends to be in the exponential part of the curve anyway.

 

all that said, 450w stock will be the max for me (and i'll undervolt further).

[jaslion]

4 hours ago, Moonzy said:

Then, how much is acceptable? How do you draw the line? Does games that use more power need to be outlawed?

I personally draw the line at around the 250/300w mark for a gpu. To this day you get a ton of performance for that power.

 

It really feels like a we are pushing the limits to achieve the tiniest bit over our competitor stretch. Kinda like what intel and amd are doing. The 12900k is flat out better than a 5950x but also consumes a good bit more.

 

For me it's also a point of look at what laptops can do. A gpu like a mobile 3070 when NOT thermally limitd goes really really fast for a power budget  of like 120w.

[Actual_Criminal]

2 hours ago, xg32 said:

all that said, 450w stock will be the max for me (and i'll undervolt further).

I agree with this, I think 300W is my preferred option, but can go up to 450W for the very highest GPUs, but even then I don't want to feel conscious that i'm rinsing my electrical bill everytime I go to game. More power will typically equal higher temperatures too.

[Zodiark1593]

I feel that these high power consumptions are targeting the sort of gamer that have formerly ran SLI or Crossfire. Multi-gpu is dead and buried by this point, so scaling up to such high power consumption is probably the only avenue remaining to capture that sort of audience. 

[Guest]

For the record, I don't really have a problem with a 600w GPU SKU existing. I would have a problem if suddenly the midrange GPUs now take 300w instead of 150w. I don't really need to care based on power costs, we have a really bangin solar system that generates enough surplus in the day so it's not of much concern. I just don't like the heat output, noise output, or general wastefulness. I suspect most enthusiasts are more willing to put up with all of those than I am. It's one of my chief regrets in 'upgrading' to a 3080Ti FE from the reference 6800XT I was using. I don't believe my NCase would be able to hand much more in GPU wattage than the 350w mark in warmer climates either given how hot the tie gets.

[jimm_eh]

I'm wondering how much power draw could be reduced by underclocking/undervolting.  I've heard of that being done with 3090s by miners seeking maximum power efficiency, and VFX artists trying to manage heat and power budget in their rendering machines.

The 4090 might have a lot of, uh, footroom for power savings at minimal performance loss.

[Montana One-Six]

On 5/13/2022 at 8:26 PM, Actual_Criminal said:

(Of course, this is just speculation on a GPU being 600W. It could well be 600W but provide 100%+ the performance for all we know until confirmed.)

If the new leaks are true 600W isn't correct. According to kopite7kimi: RTX 4090, AD102-300, 16128FP32, 21Gbps 24G GDDR6X, 450W, ~2x3090.

Which means 4090 is twice the performance of 3090 at 450W. 3090 is 350W at least. So 100W more but twice the performance would be pretty good.

 

So I will definitely be looking out for a replacement for my 3080Ti if the leaks turn out to be true.

[jones177]

To me it depends on the cooling. 

My 3080 tis/3090s were a pain to cool and I ended up buying 3 cases and about 20 fans to get them at the same temperatures my 20 series cards ran at.

They use between 350 and 400 watts.

 

My coolest GPU is my FTW3 Ultra 3090ti that uses 450 watts. It is the only card I consider properly engineered. 

Right now it is using 10 watts less at idle than my FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti. If it is not being pushed it uses less power.

 

So if a 600 watt cards could bench in the 60s stock like my 3090 ti does I would consider it.

3 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

If the new leaks are true 600W isn't correct. According to kopite7kimi: RTX 4090, AD102-300, 16128FP32, 21Gbps 24G GDDR6X, 450W, ~2x3090.

Which means 4090 is twice the performance of 3090 at 450W. 3090 is 350W at least. So 100W more but twice the performance would be pretty good.

 

So I will definitely be looking out for a replacement for my 3080Ti if the leaks turn out to be true.

I don't need the performance now but it would be fun to get one. 

 

[thrasher_565]

just hot game in the winter to off see the cost of heating...i kid but well kinda tue. you could look at other things to save power i guess to keep your bill about the same.

 

it be nice if we could have settings per game like under volt if you only need 60 fps in mindcraft instead of 300 fps.

 

posably mine to hopefully make some moeny to pay for the off set in power cost...

 

j2cents made some good points on your house only able to do 15amps and upgrading to 20amps would be costly...

[xg32]

On 5/15/2022 at 2:12 PM, jimm_eh said:

I'm wondering how much power draw could be reduced by underclocking/undervolting.  I've heard of that being done with 3090s by miners seeking maximum power efficiency, and VFX artists trying to manage heat and power budget in their rendering machines.

The 4090 might have a lot of, uh, footroom for power savings at minimal performance loss.

i run 260w at 210w and 350w at 280w, assuming the same 20% undervolt that barely hits performance (excluding oc) it's fair to assuming 450w cards can be ran at 350-360w, AD102 is rumored to be just a node change and more cores from GA102 with a power bum, the cards don't scale well past 2.1ghz.