Mozilla has defeated Microsoft’s default browser protections in Windows

[Arika]

16 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

Mac OS, while it has an App Store, is not tied down to it only. You can download programs to your hearts content from anyway and everywhere and use them as you will. (there are security warnings if it's from unverified  developers  etc, but those are easy to click through or turn off if you know what you're doing, and if you don't know what you're doing, you likely shouldn't be doing it).

which is irrelevant to any point i am making

 

16 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

You're comparing apples and oranges....Well actuaally, you're comparing PC's and smart phones.

actually, i am comparing a personal computer to a personal computing device.

 

A smartphone can easily replace a "normal" computer for a huge number of consumers, so i do think it is very reasonable to compare them.

Hell look at Samsung's DeX feature, it can literally turn your phone into a traditional desktop.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

And I don't even know how you get the idea that "Apple is defended"....for ANYTHING on this forum...

You mean the company that should get away with what ever they like on their app store or just iOS in general because it's "their platform, their rules", literally the only company that is afford that "defense" on this forum unironically on a very consistent basis?

 

 

Quote

hell, this forums parent company has a video out today ripping them for their new product not matching all the rumors spread by people who aren't Apple.

irrelevant, why does it matter who owns the forum? Linus himself could decent down upon this thread or any of the other ongoing threads and say "well, it's that platform, their rules" (referring to MS in this particular case) and i would call him out for it to the very borderline of the CS.

[mr moose]

22 hours ago, LAwLz said:

For example if you use the Windows 10 mail app and click on a link in a mail, it will always open in Edge regardless of your default browser. If you click on a link in the news app, it always opens with Edge. If you click on a link from Cortana, it always opens in Edge. I am fairly sure the help button also always opens in Edge.

 

 

 

I use the win 10 mail app, everything opens in FF for me Except PDF which I switched to a different app altogether. Although I have to say every now and then for pdf it opens a window passively begging me to use edge.    

[mr moose]

20 minutes ago, Arika S said:

 

actually, i am comparing a personal computer to a personal computing device.

 

A smartphone can easily replace a "normal" computer for a huge number of consumers, so i do think it is very reasonable to compare them.

Hell look at Samsung's DeX feature, it can literally turn your phone into a traditional desktop.

 

I posted this in the other thread earlier today,  One of the reasons PC sales took a massive shit over the last 10 years is because smart phones are all the average person needs.  Laptop became good enough for nearly everything a smartphone can't do.

 

We are already at a point where if you don't have internet there are many things you cannot do (banking being one as more and more branches close).  Smart phones are already competitively essential in many cases,  the person who can email, web browse, edit pdf and doc on the go has a distinct advantage over those who can only txt.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Video Beagle said:

While I agree in principal, I can't help wonder how big the population of people who "aren't well versed in computers" and "want to change the defualt browser" is.

Well, since Chrome has a around 70% market share I'd say that group of people is pretty large.

 

 

1 hour ago, Video Beagle said:

And I don't even know how you get the idea that "Apple is defended"....for ANYTHING on this forum...hell, this forums parent company has a video out today ripping them for their new product not matching all the rumors spread by people who aren't Apple.

Don't kid yourself. Apple has a lot of defenders on this forum.

A lot of stupid haters that just want to shit on them all the time as well, but that does not take away from the fact that there are quite a few people that are very eager to jump in and defend Apple any time they see someone say anything bad about them.

If it was just constant attacks on Apple and nobody defending them, threads wouldn't be that long or spawn long discussions.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

A smartphone can easily replace a "normal" computer for a huge number of consumers

No, a smartphone can't, due to inherent limitations of the form factor. Try editing even a simple Excel sheet on a 6" screen. And solutions like DeX cover what, 0.05% of users? If you want to make such an argument, then maybe for a tablet with external keyboard. Personally I know no one that doesn't own some at least entry-level laptop with a less closed-down OS.

[Dracarris]

11 hours ago, Arika S said:

MS are being crucified because they make it hard/annoying to change your default browser, Apple are defended for not even allowing any other options other than their app store.

1) A browser is a tad bit different from an app store

2) Windows is a desktop/laptop operating system, iOS a phone/tablet OS

3) On macOS, the equivalent to Windows, changing your default browser is rather simple.

[LAwLz]

59 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I use the win 10 mail app, everything opens in FF for me Except PDF which I switched to a different app altogether. Although I have to say every now and then for pdf it opens a window passively begging me to use edge.    

Apparently they were testing that "feature" but never rolled it out to the majority of people. 

I wrote that from memory and didn't test all the things I listed off. Maybe I should have because apparently they were testing that "feature" where Mail always opened links in Edge, but they never rolled it out to the majority of people because of the feedback they got.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Quote

For Windows Insiders in the Skip Ahead ring, we will begin testing a change where links clicked on within the Windows Mail app will open in Microsoft Edge, which provides the best, most secure and consistent experience on Windows 10 and across your devices. With built-in features for reading, note-taking, Cortana integration, and easy access to services such as SharePoint and OneDrive, Microsoft Edge enables you to be more productive, organized and creative without sacrificing your battery life or security. As always, we look forward to feedback from our WIP community.

Source: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2018/03/16/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-17623-for-skip-ahead/

[MultiGamerClub]

Weird, i have version 92 of firefox but it was not set to standard.. Oh well, not like it takes more than 10 seconds to switch.

[Arika]

38 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

No, a smartphone can't, due to inherent limitations of the form factor. Try editing even a simple Excel sheet on a 6" screen

Ah yes, because my mother really needs to edits all those spreadsheets that she doesnt have.....

 

Yes anyone that needs to do real work with have a computer, want to just browse the internet and watch videos? Smartphone is more than enough.

35 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

1) A browser is a tad bit different from an app store

 

Doesnt help your argument, that app store is the ONLY option you have on an ENTIRE device. You CANNOT change it, its the ONLY place to download apps, if anything it should be EASIER to get apps from other places than it is to change a browser

The browser you CAN change, its annoying, but you can. Its bullshit that its so hard, but imagine if MS locked everything down in windows to only allow things from the windows store, ie if windows 10S was the only version of windows.

 

35 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Windows is a desktop/laptop operating system, iOS a phone/tablet OS

Google got slapped for basically forcing phone manufacturers to always preload chrome on android.

Doesnt matter what the platform of a system is, restrictions shouldnt be celebrated.

And before you jump on to the next go to arguement of "but consoles", i have the same thoughts on consolea, they should be more open than they are, imagine the days of xbox arcade, but better.

 

35 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

3) On macOS, the equivalent to Windows, changing your default browser is rather simple.

No one is talking about MacOS. Its also irrelevent, "oh they allow it on another platform, so we can forgive all the other shit on their other products"

[Mark Kaine]

On 9/14/2021 at 2:09 PM, LAwLz said:

Well, one thing that's the issue is that you are misremembering what happened.

Oh, so Chrome asking me to set it as the default browser while I was using Edge, is also me misrembering? (Because that was certainly weird and remarkable since Chrome already *was* my default browser at the time, its just i preferred using Edge sometimes,  before they "chromified" it...)

 

And, no, I set it manually *in Chrome* first thing it asks you upon opening Chrome, just like on Android. 

 

 

I had to set defaults for music files and such (I use WMP) but nothing browser related except that one time.

 

17 hours ago, duncannah said:

 

 

 

 

 

Quite sure that's illegal.  In EU at least...

 

[Dracarris]

31 minutes ago, Arika S said:

No one is talking about MacOS. Its also irrelevent

No it is not when talking about Win11 as it is the equivalent in the Apple word. Your argument is simply flawed as you compare apples with oranges, as others have pointed out, when comparing Win11 with iOS. Your argument

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

actually, i am comparing a personal computer to a personal computing device.

is also very, very constructed to serve your opinion. Here you are comparing personal computing devices of your mom with personal computing devices of people that need to get actual work done.

 

Btw: My mum might not edit spreadsheets on a daily basis, but every now and then text (Word) documents, which is where smartphones already are a very bad fit. I personally still can't think of any people that don't own even an entry-level laptop and use "personal computing devices" to solely

31 minutes ago, Arika S said:

browse the internet and watch videos

, but if so, these people anyways barely have to install any third-party apps, especially none that cost money, which makes the whole sideloading discussion obsolete. Worded differently: Your mom doesn't need a laptop but wants to use an alternative app store on her phone. Sounds reasonable and legit.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

No, a smartphone can't, due to inherent limitations of the form factor. Try editing even a simple Excel sheet on a 6" screen.

Yes, it can, I use my smartphone for 99% of "computer tasks", my PC is for gaming, nothing else except some video recording/editing,  youtube, music listening ... 

 

I even sometimes edit videos on my phone because its way more convenient,  programs, updates, mods... all downloaded on my phone first,  on mobile connection,  so not shared with my pc, upload to virus total before transferring to my pc. 

 

I dont use excel,  one drive, word, etc... no need and if then I would use the equivalent app on my phone (I actually have spreadsheets on my phone, but I've never tried  to edit them)

 

 

So yeah, for most people who browse the internet,  do online banking  (i dont) etc a phone will be enough and far more convenient.

 

 

Ps: i also prefer watching yt on my phone, much easier controls, yt on desktop is kinda the epitome of annoying and obnoxious ... i also dont use the app on my phone, just my browser which has more features than the trashy app. 

[Dracarris]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I dont use excel,  one drive, word, etc... no need and if then I would use the equivalent app on my phone (I actually have spreadsheets on my phone, but I've never tried  to edit them)

So you never had to write a résumé/CV or application letter for a job? If not, good luck doing that on your phone.

[Mark Kaine]

1 minute ago, Dracarris said:

So you never had to write a résumé/CV or application letter for a job?

Oh, yes, I did, 10 years ago or so the last time...

 

But, actually I think it could be done on phone fairly easily nowadays. 

 

 

I'm not saying there aren't uses where a computer is needed / preferable,  just that most if not all every day tasks can be done on a phone usually. 

 

I mean if someone works with computers it'd be likely they need to use it at home as well, but someone who works at a car manufacturing plant or something... they won't have a need and already own a smartphone/tablet.

 

 

[Dracarris]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

But, actually I think it could be done on phone fairly easily nowadays. 

You have never tried to format a document in MS Word.. even on Desktop that is pure horror. And I still think editing a document aimed at letter size/A4 on a 6" screen is a horrible user experience and PITA.

[Mark Kaine]

6 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

You have never tried to format a document in MS Word.. even on Desktop that is pure horror. And I still think editing a document aimed at letter size/A4 on a 6" screen is a horrible user experience and PITA.

But why use word.

 

Just use whats in your phone already  - don't get me wrong i understand some people don't find typing on a touch screen comfortable or its just difficult for them, im the opposite i hate keyboards...

 

 

I could def write a "resume" in under 10 minutes like this, send as email, or if it needs to be old-fashioned find somewhere where I can print it. : )

 

 

[Dracarris]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I could def write a "resume" in under 10 minutes like this, send as email, or if it needs to be old-fashioned find somewhere where I can print it. : )

Yeah, good job filling out a template. And by enlarging the screenshot to about 2x the actual size, it almost looks like it's not a major pain to work like that. That font on the right will be barely legible even with very good eyes unless zoomed in, which, again - PITA as a workflow.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

Oh, so Chrome asking me to set it as the default browser while I was using Edge, is also me misrembering? (Because that was certainly weird and remarkable since Chrome already *was* my default browser at the time, its just i preferred using Edge sometimes,  before they "chromified" it...)

 

And, no, I set it manually *in Chrome* first thing it asks you upon opening Chrome, just like on Android. 

Yes you must be misremembering. 

1) Chrome can not, and do not ask to be set as your default browser when you open Edge. What you are thinking of is probably the Chrome ad Google has on their website. If you visit Google in a browser that isn't chrome it will show a notification that says something along the lines of "Test Chrome, the fast and secure browser".

2) No, you didn't set it as your default browser inside Chrome. I know this for a fact because it is impossible to do on Windows 10, except with firefox now that Mozilla has managed to bypass the "security" Microsoft implemented, by reverse engineering the special permissions Edge has.

 

Sorry but what you are describing is simply not possible. It has never during the lifespan of Windows 10 worked the way you describe. You must be misremembering.

Chrome can ask if you want to set it as the default browser (when you open Chrome) but it is not capable of setting it for you.

 

 

  

48 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Yeah, good job filling out a template. And by enlarging the screenshot to about 2x the actual size, it almost looks like it's not a major pain to work like that. That font on the right will be barely legible even with very good eyes unless zoomed in, which, again - PITA as a workflow.

It might not be as easy as working on a PC, but honestly "writing a resume" is not something people do everyday. If they are going to do that they can probably borrow a computer and do it. You might find it strange that some people don't need a PC in their everyday lives, but I know plenty of people like that. 

Also, what's wrong with using a template? That's the smart thing to do. 

Oh, and he didn't enlarge the screenshot. It's 1080x2310 which is probably the native resolution of his phone (most likely a Honor or Huawei phone).

[Mark Kaine]

16 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

No, you didn't set it as your default browser inside Chrome. I know this for a fact because it is impossible

 

Literal translation: "set as default"

 

This is really just semantics at this point? You *can* set this "from within Chrome"

[pythonmegapixel]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Literal translation: "set as default"

 

This is really just semantics at this point? You *can* set this "from within Chrome"

Doesn't that just dump you into the Windows settings where you have to still go through all of Microsoft's warnings?

[LAwLz]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Literal translation: "set as default"

 

This is really just semantics at this point? You *can* set this "from within Chrome"

That button does not set Chrome as the default. What it does is open up the settings page and instruct you how to set it as the default manually.

Again, Windows 10 blocks browsers from setting themselves as the default. All they can do is help you and instruct you on how to set it as the default manually.

[Mark Kaine]

37 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

Doesn't that just dump you into the Windows settings where you have to still go through all of Microsoft's warnings?

Yes, of course but it sends you directly to the right place, and I dont remember any "warnings", hence I'm saying this is just seems arguing over semantics, its not "impossible" or even close because the option is right there in Chrome. 

 

29 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That button does not set Chrome as the default. What it does is open up the settings page and instruct you how to set it as the default manually.

Again, Windows 10 blocks browsers from setting themselves as the default. All they can do is help you and instruct you on how to set it as the default manually.

Yes, but its like 2 clicks, there's a difference between impossible and not as convenient as you'd like. You never need to open windows settings manually for this, Chrome does it for you.

 

So you're saying Edge works differently and doesn't have to open windows settings? That would definitely be a small difference, but seems really minor IF so.

 

Edit: did some digging,  from February 2020:

 

Edge couldn't even do that at all apparently,  so worse than chrome:

 

" Microsoft Edge hat mal wieder Updates bekommen. Einmal der Beta Kanal auf die 81.0.416.20 und einmal die Canary auf die Version 82.0.439.0.

Interessant in der Canary ist, dass man nun damit begonnen hat, den Einstellungen den Abschnitt „Standardbrowser“ hinzuzufügen. Dies wird dann mit der Zeit auch in die Stable Version übernommen werden. Bislang fehlte diese Funktion"

 

"Microsoft Edge got updates again. Once the beta channel on the 81.0.416.20 and once the canary on the version 82.0.439.0. The interesting thing about the Canary is that they have now begun to add the “Default browser” section to the settings. Over time, this will also be adopted in the stable version. So far this function was missing"

 

 

 

Still don't know if it now sets this automatically however... i don't have chromified edge installed. 

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

51 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

It might not be as easy as working on a PC, but honestly "writing a resume" is not something people do everyday. If they are going to do that they can probably borrow a computer and do it. You might find it strange that some people don't need a PC in their everyday lives, but I know plenty of people like that. 

Also, what's wrong with using a template? That's the smart thing to do. 

Oh, and he didn't enlarge the screenshot. It's 1080x2310 which is probably the native resolution of his phone (most likely a Honor or Huawei phone).

Yeap exactly. And it's a Samsung ; )

[SolarNova]

And people still wonder why there are those that stick with W7.

[wanderingfool2]

23 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Yes, of course but it sends you directly to the right place, and I dont remember any "warnings", hence I'm saying this is just seems arguing over semantics, its not "impossible" or even close because the option is right there in Chrome.

 

Yes, but its like 2 clicks, there's a difference between impossible and not as convenient as you'd like. You never need to open windows settings manually for this, Chrome does it for you.

 

So you're saying Edge works differently and doesn't have to open windows settings? That would definitely be a small difference, but seems really minor IF so.

I think you are missing the general point that Windows 11 appears as though it won't have the "Default Browser" option under the setting...rather it's a per file association access.  That will mean that in Windows 11, to make it the default browser you will effectively have to go through and change multiple extensions.

 

The other issue is that if Microsoft is allowed doing it for their browser, other browsers should be allowed doing it (without putting the user to the menu).  A fun fact as well, I've seen it where Microsoft doesn't recognize the program as being "valid" (i.e. would have to reinstall it to allow it to be set as default)...so in that case it actually adds a lot more a lot more trouble.  While it wasn't a web-browser, I had a few systems that did that with Adobe PDF (they had it set as default), then an user changed it to edge by mistake, then was asking for Adobe again...and I literally had to reinstall Adobe to set it as default again.

 

I understand that it's a security thing, but Microsoft could have made it so that it pops up with a warning to the user, and the user can just click yes or cancel to let the application set the defaults