[Update: MS Backpedals] 1 7th Gen Intel CPU Supported by Windows 11, NO 1st Gen Ryzen to be added. Older hardware will not be blocked from Windows 11

[StDragon]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Yep it's in 7th Gen but not 7th Gen K SKUs from memory

All Kaby Lake (7th gen) includes MBEC. The only time it would be a moot feature is if virtualization was disabled as VT-x is require for HVCI ("Memory Integrity").

[Kisai]

11 hours ago, Spotty said:

How convenient... 

I guess someone at Microsoft noticed all the comments from people pointing out that windows 11 wouldn't be compatible with some of Microsoft's own devices.

I wonder if the Surface Studio 2 has a TPM in it already. I'm pretty sure all other 6th and 7th gen systems have TPM 2.0 chips (eg Dell systems) or 1.2 TPM's that can be flashed to 2.0, and anyone who really wants Windows 11 on a 6th or 7th gen system can add a TPM if they have a MB with the feature, but they might get feature knee-capped (eg Windows Hello, Bitlocker.)

 

But honestly, it's not a big deal in general. You aren't forced to upgrade to 11, and if anything having the TPM turned off will block the upgrade if Microsoft is pushing it automatically to systems upgraded from 7/8/10.

 

 

[Pc6777]

8 hours ago, sounds said:

Summary

Microsoft back pedals away from actually blocking Win11 even if your PC does not meet the requirements. You know, like TPM 2.0.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

Consider how hard it is for people to get new hardware, Microsoft. Or, even, just make a decision instead of flip-flopping!

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/22644194/microsoft-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-processors-changes

So tpm is optional now? Can you turn off secure boot and still run windows 11? If that's true, the steam deck may be what forced Microsofts hand, it will make the threat of Linux gaming much larger and possibly make it more mainstream, and now may be the worst time to make their user base angry.

[Lightwreather]

Funny thing, my 6700 vPro supports TPM 2.0 out of the box, wonde if it'll be enough for microsoft's hardware restrictions, then again, I did say I would never install windows on this pc unless I really really really need to

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

All Kaby Lake (7th gen) includes MBEC. The only time it would be a moot feature is if virtualization was disabled as VT-x is require for HVCI ("Memory Integrity").

Personally I wouldn't be so sure of that, you may find that the K SKUs have it microcode disabled since TXT, SIPP and vPro  are so I would not at all be surprised if MBEC is also disabled. This is most probably the reason 7th Gen overall hasn't been added to the official support list due to the disparities between K and non-K SKUs.

 

So yea, I'd like to see an actual feature support readout from a 7700K system that actually shows it supported rather than just a general statement about 7th Gen/Kaby Lake feature support because what the archecture supports and what the products within it actually support are different.

[Guest willies leg]

I think this is a good move, getting Windows out to more people. And it's not a bad idea to wipe the whole thing and start over for the older machines. Get rid of all the crap, will run a lot better.

[mr moose]

Am I the only one who upgrades the entire computer more often than the OS?  I mean in the last 30 years of nerding I have only upgraded the OS once without a full PC upgrade and that was because they let me have ten free.  

[tikker]

18 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

This install workaround is designed primarily for businesses to evaluate Windows 11, and that people can upgrade at their own risk as the company can’t guarantee driver compatibility and overall system reliability.

  "evaluate"... and so the not-supported-but-unlimitedly-supported circle starts again. I was expecting this though. A hard block would seem a little strange.

15 hours ago, Mel0nMan said:

But seriously, this is very good (unless they change their mind again...) It'll seriously reduce ewaste from otherwise perfectly working computers.

15 hours ago, BondiBlue said:

Finally. It made no sense for end users to be required to upgrade their hardware just to run Windows 11. 

Half as the devil's advocate, half serious: it makes no sense for people to demand "infinite" backwards compatability and support of the oldest hardware in the latest new software. It's not a simple update, it's a new OS. There would still be 4-5 years of Win10 support and nobody is forcing you to update to Win11. I personally still stand by that. 8-10 years of hard (8th gen Intel lower bound) and software support seems fine to me.

 

This is not to say I disagree with this decision though. I'm a big fan that they are allowing you to do it without outright blocking you. I can also understand why they limit it to a fresh install. That way to do it you have to be (somewhat) actively aware of and accepting the limitations.

[jaslion]

16 hours ago, leadeater said:

Oh that's simple, one is in a Microsoft device and one is not 

I found it really funny how a CURRENTLY SELLING microsoft device was not going to be supported in 11 :p.

[StDragon]

14 hours ago, Kisai said:

I wonder if the Surface Studio 2 has a TPM in it already. I'm pretty sure all other 6th and 7th gen systems have TPM 2.0 chips (eg Dell systems) or 1.2 TPM's that can be flashed to 2.0, and anyone who really wants Windows 11 on a 6th or 7th gen system can add a TPM if they have a MB with the feature, but they might get feature knee-capped (eg Windows Hello, Bitlocker.)

FYI, if the MB BIOS supports it, you can enable fTPM on 7th gen. In fact, I've got it enabled on a work PC with BitLocker enabled.

[linkboy]

Apparently, now Microsoft is saying that if you install Windows 11 on a computer with an unsupported CPU, it won't receive security updates through Windows Update.

 

Who knows what the hell is going on with this OS. At this point, I don't even think Microsoft knows. 

 

 

[GoodBytes]

38 minutes ago, linkboy said:

Apparently, now Microsoft is saying that if you install Windows 11 on a computer with an unsupported CPU, it won't receive security updates through Windows Update.

 

Who knows what the hell is going on with this OS. At this point, I don't even think Microsoft knows. 

 

 

I think they are miss interpreting something. I think what Microsoft meant is that future versions of Windows 11 MIGHT not work anymore with unsupported CPUs. They are leaving the door open for themselves. That is all.

 

Not providing security updates is suicidal. They have been fighting this war since XP and the internet was massively used, when users were refusing to get any updates. This has lead to an army of vulnerable systems.

[atxcyclist]

13 hours ago, mr moose said:

Am I the only one who upgrades the entire computer more often than the OS?  I mean in the last 30 years of nerding I have only upgraded the OS once without a full PC upgrade and that was because they let me have ten free.  

Same, I took Microsoft up on the 8.1-->10 upgrade for my workstation at my office, but usually if I'm moving to a new version it always goes with a full new build for it.

[Middcore]

It's a total mystery to me what Microsoft is trying to accomplish with any of this. 

[BondiBlue]

1 minute ago, Middcore said:

It's a total mystery to me what Microsoft is trying to accomplish with any of this. 

At this point I think it's still a mystery to Microsoft as well. 

[Craftyawesome]

On 8/27/2021 at 7:36 PM, StDragon said:

MBEC is included in 7th gen (verified to also be on the i7-7700; hence my previous post). It's also why 1st gen ZEN was excluded as it doesn't contain MBEC hardware extension for accelerated VBS.

 

FYI, AMD calls their implementation GMET; but it's the same thing.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/why-windows-11-has-such-strict-hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/

It's still confusing, because zen+ doesn't have MBEC either but it's on the support list.

[Heliian]

Have a look at the system requirements for Win10.  Now, see how many computers are running Win10 that aren't on the "supported" list.  

Just because it's not listed doesn't mean it won't work.  

[LAwLz]

On 8/30/2021 at 10:08 PM, Heliian said:

Have a look at the system requirements for Win10.  Now, see how many computers are running Win10 that aren't on the "supported" list.  

Just because it's not listed doesn't mean it won't work.  

This is different. 

This isn't just recommended speccs like Microsoft usually posts. They have actual software in place that enforces this. We know this because it is in the beta already. 

If it's not listed then you won't be able to upgrade. 

If it's not listed then if you manage to bypass the install block you won't get updates. 

 

 

According to what I've heard, Microsoft are doing this "you can install it but not upgrade it" because they want businesses to be able to install Windows 11 on their existing hardware, in order to evaluate it. It's not meant as a long term thing, just a "I got an unsupported computer and don't want to upgrade until I've played around with it", like a time limited trial. 

[Slicer2k]

I have win11 Single Language installed in a clean install using my i76700k,  last month i tried to upgrade my win10 pro had no problems, but didn´t do the upgrade. Now when i try to upgrade win10->win11 it won´t let me, and i can't even change the single language key  using my win10 pro key.  

[linkboy]

Yesterday, I did a full, clean install of the 22000.194 build (which is the build on the Release Preview channel and is more then likely looking like it's going to be the build that releases on Tuesday since they haven't released a new build on the beta channel today).

 

My computer is a Thinkpad P50 with a 6th gen 6700HQ CPU and the install went smoothy. Went right through the OS install, didn't complain about my CPU (it meets all of the requirements minus the CPU restriction) and booted straight up perfectly fine (and has actually ran better as a fresh install then it did as the upgrade I did over my Windows 10 install). It even played along with my dual boot setup with Zorin OS.

 

I'm going to stick with this install for the time being and see what happens after Tuesday. 

[Tr0gdor]

They should have stuck with the original plan of updating Windows 10 forever, as a service.

 

Literally no one asked for Windows 11, and after multiple failures Microsoft still hasn't learned the lesson that people do not want significant interface changes. 

 

I feel like this was some sort of backhanded deal between Microsoft and CPU manufacturers to create an OS optimized for P and E cores. I can't think of a single other reason why they'd make Windows 11. Windows 10 is perfect. Well, as close to perfect as you can get with Microsoft.

[StDragon]

2 hours ago, Tr0gdor said:

I feel like this was some sort of backhanded deal between Microsoft and CPU manufacturers to create an OS optimized for P and E cores. I can't think of a single other reason why they'd make Windows 11. Windows 10 is perfect. Well, as close to perfect as you can get with Microsoft.

Windows 11 is basically taking VBS (virtual based security) and turning it into a mandatory function. At the moment, you can also make Windows 10 just a secure provided you meet the following driver requirement to enable HVCI (Hypervisor-Protected Code Integrity). AKA, 'Memory Integrity' as known in Windows.

 

Think of VBS as as a way of firewalling off the kernel space from user space. This paradigm in security was brought about because of the past Meltdown and Spectre CPU exploits with regards to Speculative Execution; a core CPU function that provided enhanced efficiency with regards to IPC, but also had no intrinsic security at the forefront.

 

In short, VBS has proven to mitigate the spread of ransomware at the workstation level. Eventually, it too will become mandatory with Server VMs as well.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Tr0gdor said:

They should have stuck with the original plan of updating Windows 10 forever, as a service.

It's a good thing it was never part of the original plan.

 

1 hour ago, Tr0gdor said:

Literally no one asked for Windows 11, and after multiple failures Microsoft still hasn't learned the lesson that people do not want significant interface changes. 

Nah, it was asked. Windows 10 was dead for the past 3-4 years. It had little to no more new feature updates. Windows 10 lacked any sort of focus. It was a patched up Win8 to return to form for desktops and laptops. They tried to bring the interface back together with Fluent Design, but Windows team was under poor management and had no clear vision. Team was split with so many different OSs and projects, that nothing got really done. Bugs were everywhere.

 

Windows 11 brings this massive clean up to the mess (still a lot of work needs to be done, but good start. Hope it continues, of course) and now the Windows team is all working together, and clearly its new leader brings vision.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tr0gdor said:

I feel like this was some sort of backhanded deal between Microsoft and CPU manufacturers to create an OS optimized for P and E cores. I can't think of a single other reason why they'd make Windows 11. Windows 10 is perfect. Well, as close to perfect as you can get with Microsoft.

Nah, Windows 10 was a mess. How can you have anything done when your team is split with OneCore, Windows 10X, Surface Hub, XBox OS, Surface Duo (was supposed to ship with a version of Windows design for it, hence why it's software is all... the way it is now. They recently bought an Android dev company to help... we will start to see results soon, actually, they have, apparently, already fix some major bugs on its first Duo phone... Microsoft has little to no experience in Android OS).

 

Anyways, everything you see with Windows 11 (see my thread under the Tech News section for the massive lost of features and improvements) was done in 1 year, during the pendemic, shortly after it got a new leadership. Personally, I am excited to see what will come later on.

[StDragon]

27 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows 11 brings this massive clean up to the mess (still a lot of work needs to be done, but good start. Hope it continues, of course) and now the Windows team is all working together, and clearly its new leader brings vision.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, everything you see with Windows 11 (see my thread under the Tech News section for the massive lost of features and improvements) was done in 1 year, during the pendemic, shortly after it got a new leadership. Personally, I am excited to see what will come later on.

 

I'm not optimistic at the pace and polish of Windows 11 thus far. With the AMD latency bug and the lack of primary core prioritization, I have to wonder how far back the team went into the source code to develop Windows 11? I doubt they forked a more recent build of Windows 10 as it seems to be more of a pre-Ryzen issue.

 

As for banging out code in a short timeframe, exactly how many bugs did they omit to patch and/or did they introduce into this new lineage?

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Nah, it was asked. Windows 10 was dead for the past 3-4 years. It had little to no more new feature updates. Windows 10 lacked any sort of focus. It was a patched up Win8 to return to form for desktops and laptops. They tried to bring the interface back together with Fluent Design, but Windows team was under poor management and had no clear vision. Team was split with so many different OSs and projects, that nothing got really done. Bugs were everywhere.

What's funny is that I (and from what I can tell, a lot of people) thought the exact opposite.

I was thrilled when updates for Windows 10 slowed down, became more mundane and stable. The last couple of updates for Windows 10 were great. Really fast to install and didn't break anything. 

Also, are you seriously trying to imply that Windows 10 is buggy but Windows 11 is not? If so, lol, good one.

 

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Nah, Windows 10 was a mess. How can you have anything done when your team is split with OneCore, Windows 10X, Surface Hub, XBox OS, Surface Duo (was supposed to ship with a version of Windows design for it, hence why it's software is all... the way it is now. They recently bought an Android dev company to help... we will start to see results soon, actually, they have, apparently, already fix some major bugs on its first Duo phone... Microsoft has little to no experience in Android OS).

Glad to see that you also acknowledge that Microsoft is a cluster fuck structure wise and that results in a terrible product, and that they were making these poor decisions (or still are) just a couple of years ago.

I am so tired of people always deflecting criticism of Windows as "but it's old code they can't touch for backwards compatibility reasons" when even their new code from just a couple of years back is horrible as well.

 

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Anyways, everything you see with Windows 11 (see my thread under the Tech News section for the massive lost of features and improvements) was done in 1 year, during the pendemic, shortly after it got a new leadership. Personally, I am excited to see what will come later on.

If all that was done in less than a year then imagine what Windows 11 could have been if they had taken the time to actually develop it properly and not rush it out full of bugs and missing features...