Microsoft Blog talking about DX12

[qwertywarrior]

https://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx?Redirected=true

 

3DMark – Multi-thread scaling + 50% better CPU utilization

If you’re a gamer, you know what 3DMark is – a great way to do game performance benchmarking on all your hardware and devices.  This makes it an excellent choice for verifying the performance improvements that Direct3D 12 will bring to games.  3DMark on Direct3D 11 uses multi-threading extensively, however due to a combination of runtime and driver overhead, there is still significant idle time on each core.  After porting the benchmark to use Direct3D 12, we see two major improvements – a 50% improvement in CPU utilization, and better distribution of work among threads.

 

Direct3D 11

Direct3D 12

[CCap]

It is at times like this that I feel bad for users who purchased their AMD cards specifically for mantle. 

[Damikiller37]

About time I wonder if I will be able to notice a difference with my so-so aged rig

[qwertywarrior]

It is at times like this that I feel bad for users who purchased their AMD cards specifically for mantle. 

mantle still has a future

this doesnt mean that it was a waste

 

id personally rather have DX and Mantle Both die for OpenGL

OS independence is needed !

[qwertywarrior]

About time I wonder if I will be able to notice a difference with my so-so aged rig

works with fermi all the way up to maxwell

games coming in 2015 so i heard

[mr moose]

But everyone said MS wouldn't improve it and they don't care about gamers and that it would be a rebadged mantle. etc.  :rolleyes:

 

I guess people should wait for concrete facts to be released before talking about rumour as if it was a deadset reality.

[Vitalius]

But everyone said MS wouldn't improve it and they don't care about gamers and that it would be a rebadged mantle. etc.  :rolleyes:

 

I guess people should wait for concrete facts to be released before talking about rumour as if it was a deadset reality.

Rumors that reflect how MS acts about most things can be presumed to be "how it will be" until they prove otherwise. As they have here. 

After their "my way or the highway" attitude with the XB1, Kinect, DirectX 11.2, and things like that, I could only expect them to be against gamers. [Note Past Tense].

It was perfectly justified.

[mr moose]

Rumors that reflect how MS acts about most things can be presumed to be "how it will be" until they prove otherwise. As they have here. 

After their "my way or the highway" attitude with the XB1, Kinect, DirectX 11.2, and things like that, I could only expect them to be against gamers. [Note Past Tense].

It was perfectly justified.

So guilty until they prove themselves innocent?

[AlexGoesHigh]

But everyone said MS wouldn't improve it and they don't care about gamers and that it would be a rebadged mantle. etc.  :rolleyes:

 

I guess people should wait for concrete facts to be released before talking about rumour as if it was a deadset reality.

that was what they were hoping for, the problem whit microsoft is they do shit only when they feel threatened and not to innovate or improve the landscape, windows 8 is a perfect example of that, they made it that way to penetrate the mobile market and get some share from it, just after both google and apple had a very solid share in there, same goes for this, they may have been working on it before mantle was announced or valve pushing for opengl and linux for gaming, either way microsoft pulls their new guns after everyone does just to keep them where they are before its to late, which is fucking annoying for a lot people and the top of it are gamers and developers 

[Vitalius]

So guilty until they prove themselves innocent?

Corporations are, yes. Especially when their actions imply dubious behavior.

People aren't, no.

[pixeldensity]

It is at times like this that I feel bad for users who purchased their AMD cards specifically for mantle. 

why? dx 12 will probably achieve the same performance results as mantle with the amd gpu that the person just bought, so it not really a bad thing.

[mr moose]

why? dx 12 will probably achieve the same performance results as mantle with the amd gpu that the person just bought, so it not really a bad thing.

unless they paid more to get said card or was weighing up between mantle and G-sync. 

 

 

 

 

that was what they were hoping for, the problem whit microsoft is they do shit only when they feel threatened and not to innovate or improve the landscape, windows 8 is a perfect example of that, they made it that way to penetrate the mobile market and get some share from it, just after both google and apple had a very solid share in there, same goes for this, they may have been working on it before mantle was announced or valve pushing for opengl and linux for gaming, either way microsoft pulls their new guns after everyone does just to keep them where they are before its to late, which is fucking annoying for a lot people and the top of it are gamers and developers 

 

That's how all companies work, sometimes they have the leading edge and other times they are trailing.  But you can bet your bottom dollar MS had cross platform windows on the drawing board long before android or apple owned the mobile market.  Don't forget everything that apple and google are doing now MS was doing in the late 90's early 00's.  It may look like they are only doing stuff when it seems they are threatened but I can guarantee they have a road map they are following just like every other company.  

 

And for the record I don't think MS particularly care about gamers, I think we are a blip on their future income radar.  Anything they do for us now will be for cream profit or to maintain a sales base on the off chance their business models don't sell.

[Rassilon]

that was what they were hoping for, the problem whit microsoft is they do shit only when they feel threatened and not to innovate or improve the landscape, windows 8 is a perfect example of that, they made it that way to penetrate the mobile market and get some share from it, just after both google and apple had a very solid share in there, same goes for this, they may have been working on it before mantle was announced or valve pushing for opengl and linux for gaming, either way microsoft pulls their new guns after everyone does just to keep them where they are before its to late, which is fucking annoying for a lot people and the top of it are gamers and developers

I don't think Microsoft gives a rat's tail about Linux gaming. I say this was purely because of Mantle, which had nothing to do with Linux.

I don't even think it was because of Mantle totally either. Something like a new API would probably be in the works for a while.

[Rassilon]

why? dx 12 will probably achieve the same performance results as mantle with the amd gpu that the person just bought, so it not really a bad thing.

Becuase games will use DX12.

Shots fired.

[AlexGoesHigh]

That's how all companies work, sometimes they have the leading edge and other times they are trailing.  But you can bet your bottom dollar MS had cross platform windows on the drawing board long before android or apple owned the mobile market.  Don't forget everything that apple and google are doing now MS was doing in the late 90's early 00's.  It may look like they are only doing stuff when it seems they are threatened but I can guarantee they have a road map they are following just like every other company.  

 

And for the record I don't think MS particularly care about gamers, I think we are a blip on their future income radar.  Anything they do for us now will be for cream profit or to maintain a sales base on the off chance their business models don't sell.

i know microsoft gives a shit about gaming on windows, what i'm saying is that some of the crap they put out sometime annoys more the gamers and powerusers compared to the average user

 

 

I don't think Microsoft gives a rat's tail about Linux gaming. I say this was purely because of Mantle, which had nothing to do with Linux.

I don't even think it was because of Mantle totally either. Something like a new API would probably be in the works for a while.

i know and i even said that about being built before mantle was a thing, heck now that i think about it, what if mantle was the beta for DX12, AMD stated that they were working on it closely whit microsoft, in benches it gives the same level of benefit to both intel and amd CPU's, it can be adapted to work whit any other gpu very easily, amd stated they just wanted to push the industry, and lastly nvidia has given 2 shit about since it was announced

 

lol i went into conspiracy theories whit these but just look at the connections is to much to be a coincidence *puts tinfoil hat on*

[mr moose]

i know microsoft gives a shit about gaming on windows, what i'm saying is that some of the crap they put out sometime annoys more the gamers and powerusers compared to the average user

 

 

that is true.

[deathjester]

But everyone said MS wouldn't improve it and they don't care about gamers and that it would be a rebadged mantle. etc.  :rolleyes:

 

I guess people should wait for concrete facts to be released before talking about rumour as if it was a deadset reality.

 

Is it on Windows 7? Then they don't care about gamers. Period, end of story. Most computers are running 7. It doesn't matter if they come out with 12 if it is on Win 8 only. Even that olive branch? Isn't exactly "good for pc gaming".

 

You want me to thank MS for dividing the user base on Direct X's forcing game devs to use older DirectX's , and forcing a 100 dollar upgrade and continuing to make a entry level gaming PC 100 dollars more for people when they could use OpenGL and Steam OS?

 

Let's all thank Microsoft. Billy who has 600 bucks could buy a kick butt  starter gaming PC, with a GTX 760 but instead he has to roll with a 750TI. Thank you MS! You do so much to further PC gaming by making it 100 dollars more at purchase, and 100 dollars later whenever you decide to upgrade DirectX to match OpenGL. That is a HUGE percentage of the cost of a "decent gaming pc" that most people are looking to build as their first PC. A dumb OS that comes with MS paint, notepad and a browser no one uses, a media player no one uses and a video maker no one uses, just so you can play games lol.

 

MS is soooooooooo great for PC gaming. I mean I put them right up their with Valve. Let me think of all the ways they have made gaming better. Paying off third party companies to have exclusives. Yeah that is AWESOME for gamers. Forcing OS upgrades to play games with a monopoly. FANTASTIC. Making a gaming PC 100 dollars more expensive (minimum) to anyone who wants to be a PC gamer. Awesome. 

[DoubleY]

Is it on Windows 7? Then they don't care about gamers. Period, end of story. Most computers are running 7. It doesn't matter if they come out with 12 if it is on Win 8 only. Even that olive branch? Isn't exactly "good for pc gaming".

 

You want me to thank MS for dividing the user base on Direct X's forcing game devs to use older DirectX's , and forcing a 100 dollar upgrade and continuing to make a entry level gaming PC 100 dollars more for people when they could use OpenGL and Steam OS?

 

Let's all thank Microsoft. Billy who has 600 bucks could buy a kick butt  starter gaming PC, with a GTX 760 but instead he has to roll with a 750TI. Thank you MS! You do so much to further PC gaming by making it 100 dollars more at purchase, and 100 dollars later whenever you decide to upgrade DirectX to match OpenGL. That is a HUGE percentage of the cost of a "decent gaming pc" that most people are looking to build as their first PC. A dumb OS that comes with MS paint, notepad and a browser no one uses, a media player no one uses and a video maker no one uses, just so you can play games lol.

 

MS is soooooooooo great for PC gaming. I mean I put them right up their with Valve. Let me think of all the ways they have made gaming better. Paying off third party companies to have exclusives. Yeah that is AWESOME for gamers. Forcing OS upgrades to play games with a monopoly. FANTASTIC. Making a gaming PC 100 dollars more expensive (minimum) to anyone who wants to be a PC gamer. Awesome. 

Great! So let's make Windows free, let's make Graphics cards free, let's make CPU's and Motherboard's free too! That way, Billy can build a kick ass gaming PC for $0

[deathjester]

Great! So let's make Windows free, let's make Graphics cards free, let's make CPU's and Motherboard's free too! That way, Billy can build a kick ass gaming PC for $0

 

Apples to oranges. 

 

A free OS and OpenGL can do the exact same thing. OpenGL is currently faster then DirectX. A native OpenGL port is faster then a DirectX port.

 

OpenGL is the hardware companies themselves, the Kronos group. That would be Nvidia, AMD, Intel. They are also SteamOS partners. SteamOS is also VERY friendly to those who would like to make the transition from consoles. 

 

Thank you for comparing hardware to a base OS though! Totally legit comparison. 

[DoubleY]

Apples to oranges. 

 

A free OS and OpenGL can do the exact same thing. OpenGL is currently faster then DirectX. A native OpenGL port is faster then a DirectX port.

 

OpenGL is the hardware companies themselves, the Kronos group. That would be Nvidia, AMD, Intel. They are also SteamOS partners. SteamOS is also VERY friendly to those who would like to make the transition from consoles. 

 

Thank you for comparing hardware to a base OS though! Totally legit comparison. 

That wasn't my point.

 

My point is that just because Windows's implementation of DirectX is worse than OpenGL, doesn't mean that it should be free. Because with that logic, a GTX 770 should be FREE because a 280X has mantle which is superior to OpenGL/Directx that the 770 uses.

[Lays]

Apples to oranges. 

 

A free OS and OpenGL can do the exact same thing. OpenGL is currently faster then DirectX. A native OpenGL port is faster then a DirectX port.

 

OpenGL is the hardware companies themselves, the Kronos group. That would be Nvidia, AMD, Intel. They are also SteamOS partners. SteamOS is also VERY friendly to those who would like to make the transition from consoles. 

 

Thank you for comparing hardware to a base OS though! Totally legit comparison. 

 

Not to rain on your parade, I've used teamviewer on friends PC's that have windows 8/ 8.1 (I have 7) and I really didn't notice a big difference. If anything it was a bit smoother + snappier.

 

If they only make this available for 8 and 8.1 I understand that'd be a bit ridiculous, but they have to continue to try to get people to move forward in their product line. They are a business after all.

[mr moose]

Is it on Windows 7? Then they don't care about gamers. Period, end of story. Most computers are running 7. It doesn't matter if they come out with 12 if it is on Win 8 only. Even that olive branch? Isn't exactly "good for pc gaming".

 

You want me to thank MS for dividing the user base on Direct X's forcing game devs to use older DirectX's , and forcing a 100 dollar upgrade and continuing to make a entry level gaming PC 100 dollars more for people when they could use OpenGL and Steam OS?

 

Let's all thank Microsoft. Billy who has 600 bucks could buy a kick butt  starter gaming PC, with a GTX 760 but instead he has to roll with a 750TI. Thank you MS! You do so much to further PC gaming by making it 100 dollars more at purchase, and 100 dollars later whenever you decide to upgrade DirectX to match OpenGL. That is a HUGE percentage of the cost of a "decent gaming pc" that most people are looking to build as their first PC. A dumb OS that comes with MS paint, notepad and a browser no one uses, a media player no one uses and a video maker no one uses, just so you can play games lol.

 

MS is soooooooooo great for PC gaming. I mean I put them right up their with Valve. Let me think of all the ways they have made gaming better. Paying off third party companies to have exclusives. Yeah that is AWESOME for gamers. Forcing OS upgrades to play games with a monopoly. FANTASTIC. Making a gaming PC 100 dollars more expensive (minimum) to anyone who wants to be a PC gamer. Awesome. 

I have never been forced to pay a $100 upgrade for anything. I am using windows 7, I can play all the games that have been released. please tell what game that has been released or is slated to be released that I will have to upgrade to windows 8 for?

 

I don't know why you hate MS so much, it's like you firmly believe they are more evil than any other company on this planet.  They have to make money to stay in business too, no one pays the bills by giving stuff away for free.

[deathjester]

That wasn't my point.

 

My point is that just because Windows's implementation of DirectX is worse than OpenGL, doesn't mean that it should be free. Because with that logic, a GTX 770 should be FREE because a 280X has mantle which is superior to OpenGL/Directx that the 770 uses.

 

Then what was the point? Again you are comparing hardware to an unnecessary API that only exists so MS can have a monopoly and force OS upgrades at their whim and make money off of PC gaming.

 

PS4 uses OpenGL as the backend. Does PS4 look worse or run worse then Xbox One? Did PS3 look worse then Xbox 360? EVERYTHING uses or can use OpenGL as the backend. On Dolphin emulator the OpenGL backend slaughters the DirectX 11 backend.  Most of the new game developers are working and learning on mobile and that is OpenGL.

 

I didn't say DirectX needs to be free. I said it has no reason to exist any longer. It has been slower for quite some time even on Windows. Mac OS, Linux, Steam OS all are OpenGL. The hardware companies are SteamOS partners, they WANT Steam OS to succeed. They also want OpenGL ports of their games on Steam OS. Why should the game devs make two versions just so MS can make money?  OpenGL is cutting edge. It is from the hardware vendors themselves. It isn't behind.

 

The game devs are also screwing themselves out of sales since China still uses XP lol. Funny thing? China has GOOD hardware and is still using XP. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45O7WTc6k2Y

 

Steam is now in China. You want everyone to be excited for DirectX 12 on Win 8/9 only? Sorry not happening. MS is holding back PC growth, not making it better. MS would have NEVER have went low level access if OpenGL hadn't followed Mantle. Low level access KILLS their X-box console as a value. MS never even announced DirectX 12 until articles like this surfaced.

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/directx-direct3d-opengl-mantle,26167.html

 

Where are all the articles on OpenGL? Where are the articles on Linus Tech Tips about OpenGL? Instead I see multiple DirectX12 links to MS advertising and acting like they even wanted to go low level. Yeah...MS wanted to turn their Xbox One into a 1.7ghz AMD PC with a AMD 7770 in it...That is what low level access coming to PC does. Turns a 500 dollar console into a joke.

[deathjester]

I have never been forced to pay a $100 upgrade for anything. I am using windows 7, I can play all the games that have been released. please tell what game that has been released or is slated to be released that I will have to upgrade to windows 8 for?

 

I don't know why you hate MS so much, it's like you firmly believe they are more evil than any other company on this planet.  They have to make money to stay in business too, no one pays the bills by giving stuff away for free.

 

BF4 is 11.2. That is the FIRST game to use "memory tiling" "shared resources" "texture paging" whatever the hell you want to call it, and is what the consoles do, and it resulted in a FPS boost. OpenGL and Mantle can do the same thing. Do you see Mantle running slower on Windows 7?

[mr moose]

BF4 is 11.2. That is the FIRST game to use "memory tiling" "shared resources" "texture paging" whatever the hell you want to call it, and is what the consoles do, and it resulted in a FPS boost. OpenGL and Mantle can do the same thing. Do you see Mantle running slower on Windows 7?

so are you saying I can't play it on windows 7? because that's what I asked. show me a game I can't play?