Elon Musk is officially the wealthiest person on Earth with a fortune of $185bn

[dizmo]

5 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Nothing wrong with it on principle however given his standing as the CEO of 2 major publicly floated companies it was very...  bold.

IIRC it was legal in the state he did it in, so it's no different than if he had a drink in his hand. Marijuana is very rapidly becoming less "taboo", and the fact it's so strictly controlled in the US is rather laughable.

4 hours ago, Sauron said:

Why does it make "little sense"? What use can a single man have for 190 billion?

A person amassing great wealth can do whatever he or she pleases to do with said wealth. No one else has a right to it. Ideally they'd use it for good, but I see no reason why that has to be enforced by any kind of law, and am vehemently apposed to any suggestion that should happen.

3 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Do you honestly believe that an honest, hardworking individual can “earn” $185 Billion? I think you would have to be insane to believe that. 

IIRC Elon quite often sleeps at Tesla, instead of going home. A lot more than 90% of the population can say.

Wealth builds wealth. So once you have a decent amount, it easily rolls over when it's invested in stocks or, as Elon has shown, successful capital projects.

You don't have to work hard to make a lot of money. Just smart.

[Roswell]

40 minutes ago, lostcattears said:

LOL I don't think you really understand... He can sell and it wouldn't affect his company at all. It is a public company he already used the ipo to raise cash for his company. It wouldn't make a difference to his company. Just that if he sells he will be killing a ton of other investors. His company will hardly be effected.

Uh, I understand. I think you’re the one that doesn’t...

 

Tesla isn’t profitable yet, they lose about a billion per year and will lose much more before they start making money. How do you think they stay afloat? Lots of borrowing and funding.

Guess what happens when your stock price and valuation plummets? Nobody wants to lend you money or invest in your company. 

[suicidalfranco]

5 hours ago, Nowak said:

He was born to a family that ran an emerald mine in apartheid South Africa and made most of his money through government subsidies and exploitation of others' labor. Do not let him cosplay as a "self made" billionaire when he has never made any money without exploitation and reliance on the state.

 

He didn't even found Tesla, he just stole the title from Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning.

And?

His decision and choices led him to where he is today.

And good for him for rraching such heights

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

And?

His decision and choices led him to where he is today.

And good for him for rraching such heights

I don't know how to explain to you that exploiting the labor of others for your own gain isn't good, especially during a time when millions of people around the world are struggling to make ends meet.

[suicidalfranco]

1 minute ago, Nowak said:

I don't know how to explain to you that exploiting the labor of others for your own gain isn't good, especially during a time when millions of people around the world are struggling to make ends meet.

I don't know how to explain to you the creating jobs isn't a bad thing. And having around people taking risks to start businesses that leads them to getting infinitely rich when they succeed is something good, not to be frowned upon

[Nowak]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

I don't know how to explain to you the creating jobs isn't a bad thing. And having around people taking risks to start businesses that leads them to getting infinitely rich when they succeed is something good, not to be frowned upon

Taking advantage of labor while paying starvation wages to people working for you and making them work in abysmal conditions at a Tesla battery sweatshop in Nevada is not by any stretch of the means a good thing. It does create a job, but you grind the worker to dust instead, treating them as a resource to be exploited.

 

Also, Musk has never taken a risk once in his life. His parents were emerald mine owners in apartheid South Africa. He started life with a silver spoon in his hand. He has never known struggle or how to take risks. Instead he's just giving us Trains But Shittier, a car company he stole from other people (the cars in which are actually worse for the environment, due to the batteries) and privatization of space.

 

But hey, he says the dank maymays on Twitter, so he's all good, right?

[suicidalfranco]

14 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Taking advantage of labor while paying starvation wages to people working for you and making them work in abysmal conditions at a Tesla battery sweatshop in Nevada is not by any stretch of the means a good thing. It does create a job, but you grind the worker to dust instead, treating them as a resource to be exploited.

Don't like then go elsewhere, nobody is forcing them at gun point to stay there and live miserably, but have great doubts that it is as awful has you wish it could be https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries

17 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Also, Musk has never taken a risk once in his life. His parents were emerald mine owners in apartheid South Africa. He started life with a silver spoon in his hand. He has never known struggle or how to take risks. Instead he's just giving us Trains But Shittier, a car company he stole from other people (the cars in which are actually worse for the environment, due to the batteries) and privatization of space.

He's the one putting is name and he's the taking respomsability. If shit had ever happened he would be the one facing every repercussion. Luckily for him that never happened, and he has gained all the money he deserves for it.

And I'll keep repeating as much as i have to: all in all, good for him

[Nowak]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

Don't like then go elsewhere, nobody is forcing them at gun point to stay there and live miserably, but have great doubts that it is as awful has you wish it could be https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries

1. Were it so easy.

2. If Tesla was such a great place to work at then reports like this wouldn't exist. Salaries don't tell you everything.

 

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

He's the one putting is name and he's the taking respomsability. If shit had ever happened he would be the one facing every repercussion. Luckily for him that never happened, and he has gained all the money he deserves for it.

And I'll keep repeating as much as i have to: all in all, good for him

Wonder why he and other billionaires get away with it? 

[my name is guru iam tech]

for now amazon is very rich

[wanderingfool2]

  

9 hours ago, Sauron said:

There are people whose achievements have been fundamental to our every day lives whose names nobody even remembers. Musk is just a businessman who invented nothing and busted unions for personal profit.

I view Musk very much like Jobs.  Leadership is not about being the one with knowledge, but being able to recognize where you are lacking and filling the void with appropriate people.  There are plenty of people who have great inventions that went no where because they ran their businesses into the ground (and later someone took the idea and popularized/mass produced it).

 

It takes a team to create things like SpaceX, and Tesla (to where they are).

 

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

So far, he seems to not really be smart at all, and just takes other peoples ideas and gives them Apple-like luxury polish.

...so you are saying you are capable of making the decisions he does?  Smart is a very subjective term.

 

Overall, the way I approach it is that without someone like Musk, the world likely wouldn't be anywhere near the way we are in progressing to electric.  Like it or not, Tesla made it cool and is showing that it can be practical (and pushing the technology aspect).  That is pushed by the vision of Musk and yes, he might buy up companies to advance his vision...but it does take skill to surround yourself people that can make it happen.

 

While there is talk about the unions and such, at the same time it's the same company that is attracting some of the best minds (for spacex and Tesla) for engineers...which again is an appeal that was created by Musk.

 

9 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

Also shows how insane tesla valuation is. Even if every car gets replaced by a tesla right now it still almost doesn't justify the valuation.

I do think that the evaluation is majorly off course, but Tesla isn't also car company.  Yes, they do produce cars, but they are also doing solar and other "green" energy products.  Tesla apparently makes quite the margins per vehicle though compared to other ICE vehicles...so a lot of the valuation I think is based on the potential that Tesla could become a major player in multiple fields.

 

5 hours ago, lostcattears said:

LOL I don't think you really understand... He can sell and it wouldn't affect his company at all. It is a public company he already used the ipo to raise cash for his company. It wouldn't make a difference to his company. Just that if he sells he will be killing a ton of other investors. His company will hardly be effected.

They still could raise cash later (to build out)...if he were to sell his shares and leave the company, it wouldn't look great for Tesla.  To an extent as well, he does provide the direction of where he wants the company to go, and without him I think it would be in a lot more trouble.  (It would also tank the evaluation and given he would have to offload a ton of stocks and report to the SEC, he likely wouldn't get the full value by selling).  Also a lower evaluation for the company, could mean they have to take more loans at a higher rate (instead of just raising more cash)

 

5 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

Tesla isn’t profitable yet, they lose about a billion per year and will lose much more before they start making money. How do you think they stay afloat? Lots of borrowing and funding.

Actually it is profitable.  https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/4E7BR9_TSLA_Q3_2020_Update_P0Q85U.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"TSLA-Q3-2020-Update.pdf"

Last 12 months they about $1billion gain.  So yea...they aren't losing money like you claim.  Before they were taking on a lot of debt and capital raises...but that was also them building out/developing the technology they are currently using (and hitting the production amounts they needed to stay in a profit).

 

 

52 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Taking advantage of labor while paying starvation wages to people working for you and making them work in abysmal conditions at a Tesla battery sweatshop in Nevada is not by any stretch of the means a good thing. It does create a job, but you grind the worker to dust instead, treating them as a resource to be exploited.

 

24 minutes ago, Nowak said:

2. If Tesla was such a great place to work at then reports like this wouldn't exist. Salaries don't tell you everything

I think his point was to undermine what you said earlier.  e.g.  You are saying they are paying starvation wages, but when confronted they pay well switch to salaries not saying everything.  It undermines your remainder of points when your first statement is false.

 

I would also like to point out that the first article you said did mention downsides, but it also mentioned good sides.  if you find any company that employs the amount of people that Tesla does, you will find people that complain...some of the complaints as well are things I would laugh at (because I've seen what happens when an employee begins to think that just because company A only does 1 an hour you should be able to (and company B agreeing to it during the merger)...it resulted in having to hire a ton more employees and I would commonly see the old companies employees now sleeping and playing cards because they met their quota for the day)...sometimes it's about having pride in your work, and that's a value that is lost in a lot of companies these days.

[Nowak]

4 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I think his point was to undermine what you said earlier.  e.g.  You are saying they are paying starvation wages, but when confronted they pay well switch to salaries not saying everything.  It undermines your remainder of points when your first statement is false.

The only wages I'm seeing that are relatively decent are for manufacturing the actual vehicles. Everyone else makes $27k - $58k a year. Not really what I'd call "paying well" honestly, but perhaps I shoulda addressed that in my post as well. I, uh, do tend to forget things.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Nowak said:

1. Were it so easy.

it is

out of one of your own links:

Quote

 

While it's clear that experiences vary based on team, there are a few conclusions we can reach. The overarching theme: working at Tesla isn't for everyone.

Challenges involving communication, management, stress, and potential burnout are visible in multiple aspects of the organization.

For many Tesla employees, however, these challenges aren't deal-breakers. If you enjoy a fast-paced, challenging, and passionate atmosphere, you can still have a positive experience at Tesla.

 

 

and if it's that dangerous, that stressful, that underpayed, that terrible to work at Tesla, then i'll bring back point 1 as much as needed: Leave, there are better fishes out there that will serve you better.

1 hour ago, Nowak said:

Wonder why he and other billionaires get away with it? 

blame the game not the player if you don't like it

 

1 hour ago, Nowak said:

The only wages I'm seeing that are relatively decent are for manufacturing the actual vehicles. Everyone else makes $27k - $58k a year.

as if that was a small amount. And you're leaving out that Tesla also gives many benefits to it's employees.

[Nowak]

3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

it is

Didn't know every desirable job is everywhere ever, and you don't need to do things like move across 27 states or to another country to get a job. News to me.

 

4 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

blame the game not the player if you don't like it

I am. The game is "billionaires experience a different system than we do".

 

4 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

as if that was a small amount. And you're leaving out that Tesla also gives many benefits to it's employees.

My oldest sister's wedding cost us about as much in alimony as how much a Tesla sales rep makes a year. The median income for my area is $10,000 more than what Tesla pays then. Not even the top end "not someone who actually works on the assembly line" wage of $50k is enough to comfortably rent an apartment anywhere.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

 

 

...so you are saying you are capable of making the decisions he does?  Smart is a very subjective term.

 

I'm objectively better at making technical decisions with long-term planning, but suffice it to say, most businesses operate like the end-of-the-world is 24 months out and have no financial plan to keep their staff working if the bottom falls out of the market for their products.

 

What does Paypal do? Paypal doesn't really do anything you need, but what made it useful was it's integration with eBay for several years, because before Paypal, there was no way to pay for an auction, as thousands of small sellers that weren't already operating their own brick-and-morter stores could only pay with checks or western union, both incredibly unsafe. Paypal filled a need, and because (Americans) could readily have it linked to the ACH system, it cost Paypal practically nothing to operate. Only when it had to deal with cards does it actually cost Paypal money to operate. Was that Musk's idea? No. That was  Max Levchin, the only engineer of the founders, the rest were investors. Note one of the worlds super villain's was also a founder of Paypal, and look at what (thiel)'s philantrophic efforts are, mostly crazy nonsense.

 

Meanwhile, Bill Gates wants to end world illnesses by solving things like how to get affordable toilets to places without good water. Despite all the poo thrown at Bill for things he said or did as CEO as Microsoft, he's doing more than the billionaires who want to launch cars into space.

 

 

[Mling]

12 hours ago, Intergalacticbits said:

Wow  and I could be so happy with just a measly 2 billion myself lol. 

If it was me I'd sell it all and start my super fun lifetime. 

this is why you will never be a billionaire. This is the blue collar lottery winner's paradox. As soon as you get the money you need to live your dream, you will spend it all and be back to where you started, wishing you could win some more.

[suicidalfranco]

24 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Didn't know every desirable job is everywhere ever, and you don't need to do things like move across 27 states or to another country to get a job. News to me.

If that what it takes to find a happy job that suits you, then move.

 

26 minutes ago, Nowak said:

I am. The game is "billionaires experience a different system than we do".

With higher stakes on the table

 

44 minutes ago, Nowak said:

My oldest sister's wedding cost us about as much in alimony as how much a Tesla sales rep makes a year. The median income for my area is $10,000 more than what Tesla pays then. Not even the top end "not someone who actually works on the assembly line" wage of $50k is enough to comfortably rent an apartment anywhere.

And again you are excluding the benefits

https://www.forbes.com/sites/financialfinesse/2018/09/24/how-much-are-your-benefits-really-worth/?sh=4e1531907879

If you are bad with money, no matter the amount you'll have a hard time to make ends meet. If you chose to live in place that is clearly outside your budget, it's you making the wrong decision money wise. 27k and almost 10k worth of benefits (in the worst case based off of the forbes articles) is enough to live confortably.

 

[Master Disaster]

48 minutes ago, Kisai said:

I'm objectively better at making technical decisions with long-term planning, but suffice it to say, most businesses operate like the end-of-the-world is 24 months out and have no financial plan to keep their staff working if the bottom falls out of the market for their products.

 

What does Paypal do? Paypal doesn't really do anything you need, but what made it useful was it's integration with eBay for several years, because before Paypal, there was no way to pay for an auction, as thousands of small sellers that weren't already operating their own brick-and-morter stores could only pay with checks or western union, both incredibly unsafe. Paypal filled a need, and because (Americans) could readily have it linked to the ACH system, it cost Paypal practically nothing to operate. Only when it had to deal with cards does it actually cost Paypal money to operate. Was that Musk's idea? No. That was  Max Levchin, the only engineer of the founders, the rest were investors. Note one of the worlds super villain's was also a founder of Paypal, and look at what (thiel)'s philantrophic efforts are, mostly crazy nonsense.

 

Meanwhile, Bill Gates wants to end world illnesses by solving things like how to get affordable toilets to places without good water. Despite all the poo thrown at Bill for things he said or did as CEO as Microsoft, he's doing more than the billionaires who want to launch cars into space.

First of all apologies for the ghost "thread answer" notification, I misclicked.

 

In the interests of being fair (normally I would never defend Musk, I actually agree with everything you're saying) I should point out that Musk is quoted as saying...

Quote

About half my money is intended to help problems on Earth, and half to help establish a self-sustaining city on Mars to ensure continuation of life (of all species) in case Earth gets hit by a meteor like the dinosaurs or WW3 happens and we destroy ourselves,

 

[Sauron]

6 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It takes a team to create things like SpaceX, and Tesla (to where they are).

So why does one member of that team, arguably the most replaceable one, get to earn millions of times more than the rest?

12 hours ago, dizmo said:

A person amassing great wealth can do whatever he or she pleases to do with said wealth. No one else has a right to it. Ideally they'd use it for good, but I see no reason why that has to be enforced by any kind of law, and am vehemently apposed to any suggestion that should happen.

The ways in which it is legal to obtain wealth are arbitrarily decided. I doubt you'd say the same of someone who directly stole that wealth at gunpoint, even though they put in *some* work to obtain it. The idea that anyone deserves billions is absurd and they only "have a right" to it because the society around them allows it. It wouldn't be that hard to legislate against the kind of exploitation that permits people like Musk to rack up billions off the backs of workers who might struggle to pay their rent but are nonetheless essential to the entire system.

 

Not that long ago slavery was a legal way to get rich in the US, with that kind of reasoning you'd have been on the side that wanted to keep it that way.

[Doobeedoo]

Quite insane though.

[Guest willies leg]

15 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

His parents owned a mine. That’s hardly nothing. He bought into most of the companies he runs. He hasn’t really created anything. He’s kinda like Steve Jobs only more privileged since he had money going into life. 

 

Actually not. Where did you see his parents gave him money and he bought into everything? Links and references please. Everything I saw seems the opposite.

 

[Guest willies leg]

17 hours ago, Blade of Grass said:

I've read the book too (which what I asked you about). He attended private schooling, don't think most poor people can afford that. 

 

I don't disagree that he's self-made, but his family also has money. His father owned his own airplane as a hobby (which he discusses in the book), again, poor people can't afford hobby aircraft owning. 

 

One thing I can say for sure, he spent a lot of time building things and hiring the right people.

 

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to Off Topic

 

While this might be news, its not related to tech apart from the individuals having technology companies or something related to technology. Same would apply to companies being valued at something since by itself, they don't matter to technological advanced or company's policy towards end-user (as in things we do keep in Tech News section).

[Intergalacticbits]

5 hours ago, Mling said:

this is why you will never be a billionaire. This is the blue collar lottery winner's paradox. As soon as you get the money you need to live your dream, you will spend it all and be back to where you started, wishing you could win some more.

 

That is why 2 billion is my number lol because with the way I want to live that life.

I don't think I could spend all that in my lifetime.

[wanderingfool2]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

So why does one member of that team, arguably the most replaceable one, get to earn millions of times more than the rest?

...you think Musk is easily replaceable?  There is an energy, motivation, mentality and direction that is brought in by Musk.  Yes you might be able to find someone to replace him, but by no means does Musk just sit around the office doing nothing.  He is also one of the ones who got the funding to get them to where they are...it's not an easy task, it takes a bit of luck, knowledge and initial capital (which Musk did have).

 

It's similar to the concept that as a jr programmer, you can be paid less than a jr Best Buy employee...how is that fair...or the sales staff who get commissions, while everyone else is doing the grunt work in the backend that allows them to get the sales.  There are mismatches everywhere you look. 

[Sauron]

28 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

...you think Musk is easily replaceable?  There is an energy, motivation, mentality and direction that is brought in by Musk.

CEOs come and go from corporations constantly, Musk has repeatedly demonstrated he doesn't know what he's talking about regarding what his companies do.

30 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

it's not an easy task, it takes a bit of luck, knowledge and initial capital (which Musk did have).

Even if it weren't easy it definitely wouldn't deserve billions in terms of merit.

31 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It's similar to the concept that as a jr programmer, you can be paid less than a jr Best Buy employee...how is that fair...

Yeah, it's not fair. But at least that person isn't getting paid a million times less than a Best Buy employee.

32 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

or the sales staff who get commissions, while everyone else is doing the grunt work in the backend that allows them to get the sales.  There are mismatches everywhere you look. 

Yeah, and I think those are bad too. With that said there may be some actual differential in work done that justifies being paid a bit more or a bit less - but definitely nothing that justifies the kind of disparities we see between people like Musk and their employees.