Jony Ive: Competitors steal Apple's work

[RedRound2]

Here is the good news: you can make Jony Ive angry. All you have to do is copy his ideas.
How do I know? Because I've just read a long interview with him in the UK's Sunday Times. (It's behind a paywall, but I promise I didn't steal it.)

This interview was part of the Sunday Times Magazine's "Makers" series, and Ive warmed immediately to the concept. "Everyone I work with shares the same love of and respect for making," he explained.
He added: "Objects and their manufacture are inseparable. You understand a product if you understand how it's made."

 

The problem is that the word "maker" has been co-opted, nay stolen, by the pimple-faced, soft-hearted techies of San Francisco, who are deeply hurt to be called "techies."
Ive, though, believes craft is enjoying a resurgence. He said he once took his iPhone apart and put it back together again, just to prove he could.

Interestingly, the Sunday Times managed to dig up a photo to prove that he once had hair. And lots of it -- spiky like a Bay City Roller.

 

The interview takes great pains to describe the great pains Ive takes to make sure the products aren't great pains. This is relatively familiar territory.
But Ive shone a little light into why Apple doesn't exactly make cheap products.

He said:
We're surrounded by anonymous, poorly made objects. It's tempting to think it's because the people who use them don't care -- just like the people who make them. But what we've shown is that people do care. It's not just about aesthetics. They care about things that are thoughtfully conceived and well made.
The implication, of course, is that they're prepared to pay for that thoughtfulness.
Ive put it like this: "We make and sell a very, very large number of (hopefully) beautiful, well-made things. Our success is a victory for purity, integrity -- for giving a damn."

He believes his job is making technology personal and he believes that the relationship people have with Apple products is intimate. (Oh, of course, he vaguely, slightly hinted at an intimate iWatch. But he wasn't going to actually say anything, was he?)

Asked whether all the lining up outside Apple stores to wait for the latest thing isn't intimately insane, he replied: "It's a demonstration against thoughtlessness and carelessness."
I bet you've never thought of it that way. You always thought it was just a bunch of style-obsessed, superficial groupies who are vacuous in the extreme. (At least Samsung thinks so.)
Talking of Samsung -- which Ive specifically did not -- there is talk (and legal action) suggesting the Korean company (and others) occasionally mimics the work of Ive and his team.

Copying clearly annoys him. "It's theft," he said.
He added: "What's copied isn't just a design, it's thousands and thousands of hours of struggle."
Quiet struggle, though. Ive described a "pre-verbal" understanding at Apple about what everyone is trying to achieve.
Apple only gets verbal during the fancy presentations. And when it sues you, of course.

Whatever he said is actually true, only apple is the one I've seen giving software support for a 4 year old device. I have an S4 and nothing major has still come out for it, which is a huge disappoint because I'm not getting anything extra for what I paid

And their services are just rock solid and a great experience.

Hate on apple, I don't mind but only if you have a good reason. Majority of the people don't even know what they're talking about when they are criticising apple

Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57620401-71/jony-ive-competitors-steal-apples-work/

This is just one part of the lengthy interview, if you want hear more about apples insides, google 'Sunday times Jonathan Ive interview'

[RelentlessAF]

Brand loyalty is pointless, enjoy the products. Not the company.

[Whiskers]

An interesting read.

[Imabigmac]

Brand loyalty is pointless, enjoy the products. Not the company.

if the company provides you with good service and products why not love the company? 

[squirrl]

-- oops 

[RelentlessAF]

if the company provides you with good service and products why not love the company? 

Because a company is a company, they can eventually create bad products or give bad service and if you develop an attachment with the company it'll feel like they stabbed you in the back when in reality you shouldn't have been attached to something like a company to begin with. You should just love the products, a product won't change and will be what you liked to begin with until it either breaks or is no longer used. You can also like some products by a company and hate others, it's a way to distance yourself from disappointment really. If you choose products instead of companies you'll always just choose what you like rather than what your favorite company just released. Like say you love Apple and they release the new Macbook 2 and it's nowhere near the improvement that you were expecting but you bought it anyway because you have the mindset that everything Apple makes is amazing and great. Then you become disappointed and feeel like the company personally took a shot at you. That's where these heated flame wars get started with people insulting companies and defending them for whatever reason.

 

Now imagine you like the Macbook, and Apple releases the Macbook 2 but you decide to look around a bit more instead and you find a laptop by ASUS that you like so much better and a better deal. Than you get something you will love and you'll be happy and you won't care that Apples Macbook 2 wasn't that great. It can go both ways as well with you finding the Macbook 2 better than your ASUS laptop. Caring about companies is just not a good idea and you should care about the products because we are consumers. That's what we do.

[Imabigmac]

Because a company is a company, they can eventually create bad products or give bad service and if you develop an attachment with the company it'll feel like they stabbed you in the back when in reality you shouldn't have been attached to something like a company to begin with. You should just love the products, a product won't change and will be what you liked to begin with until it either breaks or is no longer used. You can also like some products by a company and hate others, it's a way to distance yourself from disappointment really. If you choose products instead of companies you'll always just choose what you like rather than what your favorite company just released. Like say you love Apple and they release the new Macbook 2 and it's nowhere near the improvement that you were expecting but you bought it anyway because you have the mindset that everything Apple makes is amazing and great. Then you become disappointed and feeel like the company personally took a shot at you. That's where these heated flame wars get started with people insulting companies and defending them for whatever reason.

 

Now imagine you like the Macbook, and Apple releases the Macbook 2 but you decide to look around a bit more instead and you find a laptop by ASUS that you like so much better and a better deal. Than you get something you will love and you'll be happy and you won't care that Apples Macbook 2 wasn't that great. It can go both ways as well with you finding the Macbook 2 better than your ASUS laptop. Caring about companies is just not a good idea and you should care about the products because we are consumers. That's what we do.

I didn't say I love apple for eternity!!! I dislike a company after they betray me etc, but what's wrong with loving a company in the mean time.

[RelentlessAF]

I didn't say I love apple for eternity!!! I dislike a company after they betray me etc, but what's wrong with loving a company in the mean time.

Because it really doesn't make sense, a company is an entity it's not a real being it'd be the same as loving a collection of straws. If the straws produced bricks that you could use to build a relatively up to regulation house with you should like the bricks. Love the bricks, care for the bricks. Not worship the straws, what happens when the straws produce bricks for someone else. Or when the make unsatisfactory bricks again you'll feel betrayed. You should save yourself the feeling of betrayal and just say "Hey, those are some cool bricks." and move on from there.

[jezza39]

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Jony, Apple 'steals' its fair share too

[Imabigmac]

Because it really doesn't make sense, a company is an entity it's not a real being it'd be the same as loving a collection of straws. If the straws produced bricks that you could use to build a relatively up to regulation house with you should like the bricks. Love the bricks, care for the bricks. Not worship the straws, what happens when the straws produce bricks for someone else. Or when the make unsatisfactory bricks again you'll feel betrayed. You should save yourself the feeling of betrayal and just say "Hey, those are some cool bricks." and move on from there.

Then why do some people love and worship their God? A God isn't the physical "world" in most cases God made the world which people also love. We love many things that aren't real, stories/books allot made up but hey we still like them.

 

Maybe I just THINK DIFFERENTLY? 

[Imabigmac]

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Jony, Apple 'steals' its fair share too

Lol, I immediately thought of an Apple store with a bunch of broken glass. 

[RelentlessAF]

Then why do some people love and worship their God? A God isn't the physical "world" in most cases God made the world which people also love. We love many things that aren't real, stories/books allot made up but hey we still like them.

 

Maybe I just THINK DIFFERENTLY? 

I don't care much for religion but I don't question people's want to believe in something like a God, however this is different. You are talking about something that wants money from you and nothing more, it's basically something that is exploiting you. A story is a work of art someone created for the passion of creating it rather than money(in most cases) but regardless I would say the same. We shouldn't attach ourselves to things like that we should develop attachment to people animals, nature. Things that can interact with us in unique ways. A company can do none of these things because it's a company not a living breathing things, IT cannot interact with you but the people who work there possibly can, provided they don't smell bad.

[RedRound2]

Because it really doesn't make sense, a company is an entity it's not a real being it'd be the same as loving a collection of straws. If the straws produced bricks that you could use to build a relatively up to regulation house with you should like the bricks. Love the bricks, care for the bricks. Not worship the straws, what happens when the straws produce bricks for someone else. Or when the make unsatisfactory bricks again you'll feel betrayed. You should save yourself the feeling of betrayal and just say "Hey, those are some cool bricks." and move on from there.

 

I don't think anyone does that. I personally like Apple because of their iPhones, iPads, Macs, OS X and iOS. They design good and support good. Their services are rock solid and seamless. I still haven't found an android manufacturer who is like Apple. That's what makes them great in my books. Now I do know the price of 5C is a bit too close to a 5S which is significantly better, but I don't care about that product. Don't get me wrong the product is good but you can get a much more better phone with $100 extra. 

 

None of the other companies are like Apple. Their service is unmatched. I had both HP and Dell laptops and both had horrible customer support. Maybe its because they have too many products, but if cutting down the number of products helps in support then be it.

 

My S4 was the worst phone I could possibly buy. It doesn't have great battery, software support is bad (I'm still waiting for KitKat), customer support is bad, and I have frequent problems of my SIM getting randomly removed and apps crashing. All these disadvantages outweigh the advantages of android like 10:1. 

[RelentlessAF]

I don't think anyone does that. I personally like Apple because of their iPhones, iPads, Macs, OS X and iOS. They design good and support good. Their services are rock solid and seamless. I still haven't found an android manufacturer who is like Apple. That's what makes them great in my books. Now I do know the price of 5C is a bit too close to a 5S which is significantly better, but I don't care about that product. Don't get me wrong the product is good but you can get a much more better phone with $100 extra. 

 

None of the other companies are like Apple. Their service is unmatched. I had both HP and Dell laptops and both had horrible customer support. Maybe its because they have too many products, but if cutting down the number of products helps in support then be it.

 

My S4 was the worst phone I could possibly buy. It doesn't have great battery, software support is bad (I'm still waiting for KitKat), customer support is bad, and I have frequent problems of my SIM getting randomly removed and apps crashing. All these disadvantages outweigh the advantages of android like 10:1. 

Experience is subjective, you may enjoy the products and service whereas others may not. That's basically one of the points I'm trying to get at, we shouldn't defend companies or hate on them. We should enjoy the products or not enjoy them, if you like Apple products thats what you like and what you choose to use. I personally do not but does that make the product worse? No, it just means it's not for me, the product is as good as you find it to be. It's entirely subjective there is no such thing as good or bad because all experiences differ.

 

EDIT: Another thing I would like to add is the service is given by employees and people not Apple, Apple is incapable of giving you good service as it isn't a being. Basically you enjoy the helpful service of the employees of Apple.

[RedRound2]

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Jony, Apple 'steals' its fair share too

 

Well not exactly, if you did a bit research on them, you'll find that they started designing a ipad and iPhone way back in 2000. But since the technology of compactness wasn't there during that time, they pushed these products down the pipeline. Samsung on the other hand started developing the Gear the moment they heard Apple was working on iWatch and that's why they suck. Let Apple release the iWatch and you'll see Samsung copying some of their elements and making it better by opening it up to developers. And then the whole story of smartphones will just repeat but instead its about wearables this time

 If you check Apple's patents too there are some amazing ideas in store

[Imabigmac]

I don't care much for religion but I don't question people's want to believe in something like a God, however this is different. You are talking about something that wants money from you and nothing more, it's basically something that is exploiting you. A story is a work of art someone created for the passion of creating it rather than money(in most cases) but regardless I would say the same. We shouldn't attach ourselves to things like that we should develop attachment to people animals, nature. Things that can interact with us in unique ways. A company can do none of these things because it's a company not a living breathing things, IT cannot interact with you but the people who work there possibly can, provided they don't smell bad.

Well one can argue that all religions just want your money, look at the catholic church, and the money it had and the power it had which it used to collect money from everyone in the middle ages. If we don't attach to something that is not developed how do we develop it? If Jobs didn't want a music player that was better than a sony walkman we would have itunes and the ipod. If we don't follow those attachments or passions for things that aren't "real" we will never advance. Sure a company can interact with you, not a physically with a sake of a hand, but through marketing. 

[RedRound2]

Experience is subjective, you may enjoy the products and service whereas others may not. That's basically one of the points I'm trying to get at, we shouldn't defend companies or hate on them. We should enjoy the products or not enjoy them, if you like Apple products thats what you like and what you choose to use. I personally do not but does that make the product worse? No, it just means it's not for me, the product is as good as you find it to be. It's entirely subjective there is no such thing as good or bad because all experiences differ.

 

EDIT: Another thing I would like to add is the service is given by employees and people not Apple, Apple is incapable of giving you good service as it isn't a being. Basically you enjoy the helpful service of the employees of Apple.

 

Have you visited an Apple store, they are trained really good, they know what they're doing, you won't feel like the employee is going to stab you. I remember when I bought my first android phone Galaxy 5, I had some Wifi problems. I gave it to service center and they gave it back too me saying they don't know. Then I had to search the internet upside down to find a solution which I did then.

 

Also listen to what Linus and Luke said about the Apple store in the march 14th WAN show.

[RelentlessAF]

Well one can argue that all religions just want your money, look at the catholic church, and the money it had and the power it had which it used to collect money from everyone in the middle ages. If we don't attach to something that is not developed how do we develop it? If Jobs didn't want a music player that was better than a sony walkman we would have itunes and the ipod. If we don't follow those attachments or passions for things that aren't "real" we will never advance. Sure a company can interact with you, not a physically with a sake of a hand, but through marketing. 

I don't like organized religion I just think people are entitled to whether they want to believe in God or not, anyways, you bring up many good points and I don't really want to debate this forever so I will say agree to disagree. You are an admirable opponent. *Extends hand for gentlemanly handshake*

 

EDIT: I am also ridiculously tired.

[RelentlessAF]

Have you visited an Apple store, they are trained really good, they know what they're doing, you won't feel like the employee is going to stab you. I remember when I bought my first android phone Galaxy 5, I had some Wifi problems. I gave it to service center and they gave it back too me saying they don't know. Then I had to search the internet upside down to find a solution which I did then.

 

Also listen to what Linus and Luke said about the Apple store in the march 14th WAN show.

Again those are the employees not the company, I also don't base my entire opinion of something around what one or two people say. I let my own experiences form my opinions. The only Apple product I've ever owned or used is an iPhone 4 and I don't even have an opinion on it because it's the only phone I've ever had. I really don't care enough about phones to buy another one either or do the research into one I'd want

[Imabigmac]

I don't like organized religion I just think people are entitled to whether they want to believe in God or not, anyways, you bring up many good points and I don't really want to debate this forever so I will say agree to disagree. You are an admirable opponent. *Extends hand for gentlemanly handshake*

I don't really like mass religions either just an example. I would agree its a tie here and we could back and forth until one of us loses a finger typing. 

 

[RelentlessAF]

I don't really like mass religions either just an example. I would agree its a tie here and we could back and forth until one of us loses a finger typing. 

Yeah and I sort of like my fingers, well I wouldn't be able to play guitar without them so I guess they're okay.

[Whiskers]

I feel that when Apple try to implement a new feature within their devices, it seems much more 'complete' than when their competitors try to do it. It feels more like the realisation of a lengthy research, design and development process rather than the result of a fat middle aged businessman deciding to tack on this and this to sell 50000000000000000000 units for the sake of increasing the company's profit margins by 0.0001%.

I guess I should elaborate. When Apple introduced the iPhone 4 with its retina display, it felt like they had made a leap forward with the display technology of smartphones. It felt like they had reached a clear goal which was the result of extensive research and development. However when HTC announced the HTC One with its 1080p screen, Samsung announced the Galaxy S4 with its 1080p screen and later Oppo with their Find 7's 1440p screen it feels like they're just slapping in higher-resolution panels without a lot of forethought or reasoning, then market them with the rationale that higher numbers equate to higher sales.

If you want to get a decent Android device, good luck. Some devices have great build quality, some devices are responsive, some have great features, some are great for productivity, some have great cameras, some have water and dust resistance, some are ultra-fashionable, some are ultra-powerful and some are ultra-affordable. Very few offer a package as well-rounded and complete as the iPhone however, and the few that do still have some glaring drawbacks - the fluidity, consistency and responsiveness of the Android OS and its UI, for example.

Apple make exquisite products. They may not always be for me, personally - however I still adore their philosophy on the penultimate importance of great design and the great implementation of it. They get it, and they really do seem to focus more on making a great product than making a device that sells well. They achieve the latter by targeting the former, whilst their competitors fail to achieve the former by targeting the latter.

[Lyons]

I seriously think Jony Ive is an industrial design genius. Apple has absolutely fucking nailed it when it comes to aesthetics and build. Put any Apple product next to its non-Apple counterpart and try to tell my it looks better, or is built better, or is a better overall package. Sure you pay a premium, but it really does go towards something.

[LAwLz]

Ohh Ive...

People who live in glass houses... Shouldn't throw things clearly ripped off (design wise) from Braun. Should we call Dieter Rams and ask what they think of people using their designs?

Actually, let's skip asking him and let's ask Steve Jobs what he thinks of stealing ideas.

"Good artists copy, great artists steal. We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas"

-Steve Jobs

So it's only alright to steal designs as long as you are not the victim Apple? Sounds a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

[mr moose]

I seriously think Jony Ive is an industrial design genius. Apple has absolutely fucking nailed it when it comes to aesthetics and build. Put any Apple product next to its non-Apple counterpart and try to tell my it looks better, or is built better, or is a better overall package. Sure you pay a premium, but it really does go towards something.

 

My HTC desire from 2010, aluminium shell, still very responsive even by todays standards and looks a treat.  Only issue I've ever had is it battery life, however every other feature is IMO premium. I still use it today.