Intel Core i9-11900(k) + i7-11700(k/kf) 8c16t Rocket Lake Desktop CPU Benchmarks and Pricing Leaked: (Update #8)

[Bombastinator]

10 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

A few smallish updates (Will update and add to OP) ~ 

 

Intel Core i9-11900K Rocket Lake-S Already Pushed To 5.2GHz All-Core Overclock:

 

 

Source 1: https://hothardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-11900k-rocket-lake-s-52ghz-all-core-overclock

 

Rocket Lake Engineering Samples Benchmarked Against Zen 3:

 

 

Source 2: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rocket-lake-engineering-samples-benchmarked

Source 3: https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2290061-1-1.html

 

If they wanted to test against “AMD’s best high end chip” they should have used a 5950 rather than a 5800.  I guess if they were going to sell the 11900k for the same price as the upper mid range 5800 it would be a reasonable test.  If they’re going to prices it against a top end AMD chip though they should test it against one.  

[porina]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

If they wanted to test against “AMD’s best high end chip” they should have used a 5950 rather than a 5800.  I guess if they were going to sell the 11900k for the same price as the upper mid range 5800 it would be a reasonable test.  If they’re going to prices it against a top end AMD chip though they should test it against one.  

The quote says " AMD's best eight-core chip". Also, how do you propose them to price a CPU that doesn't officially exist yet? They did the logical thing: compare across core counts. Pricing is a separate dimension than can be varied a lot more easily than any hardware.

[tim0901]

13 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

A few smallish updates (Will update and add to OP) ~ 

 

Intel Core i9-11900K Rocket Lake-S Already Pushed To 5.2GHz All-Core Overclock:

 

 

Source 1: https://hothardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-11900k-rocket-lake-s-52ghz-all-core-overclock

 

Rocket Lake Engineering Samples Benchmarked Against Zen 3:

 

 

Source 2: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rocket-lake-engineering-samples-benchmarked

Source 3: https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2290061-1-1.html

 

And all this with intel still being a process node behind. AMD is killing it rn, but the fact that Intel is still competitive with a 6 year old node is bloody impressive.

 

That being said, I'm thinking this generation of Intel chips could well be a poor buy in the long run. If Alder Lake is still due to arrive at the end of the year with a new node and a new architecture (Gracemont Cove, the successor to Willow Cove, which itself was the successor to the Sunny Cove that has been backported for Rocket Lake), then Rocket lake could end up aging rather quickly (although it's probably still a better buy than Kaby Lake).

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, porina said:

The quote says " AMD's best eight-core chip". Also, how do you propose them to price a CPU that doesn't officially exist yet? They did the logical thing: compare across core counts. Pricing is a separate dimension than can be varied a lot more easily than any hardware.

Intel has always been competitive with AMD in raw power.  The issue is they insisted on pricing their chips an order of magnitude too high. Pricing is everything here.

[porina]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

The issue is they insisted on pricing their chips an order of magnitude too high. Pricing is everything here.

I don't think Intel priced high. It was higher than AMD for sure, but that doesn't mean it was too high. It is tuned for market conditions, as was AMD's pricing. When Ryzen first arrived, AMD had choices to make. I think they went low relative to Intel for two reasons. 1, is that the architecture performance was, overall, still lagging from Intel in many areas. Sure, it even beat Skylake in Cinebench, but that was a best case load for Zen. 2, they may choose to use pricing to take market share. If we imagine they made a CPU identical to Intel they would likely have to sell it for less than Intel to get sales as their brand wasn't there. Zen 2 was when I consider they passed Intel architecturally. Pricing was probably still low more due to encouraging growth than performance reasons. Also if those chiplets really were that much cheaper, it would give them more flexibility there. Zen 3 we now see their confidence at going high with pricing. The lack of supply probably is helping there also.

 

I guess I'm more a tech at heart. Pricing might matter when you are buying, but when you are looking to understand the product offering, the technical details are the juicy parts to focus on first. The last thing we want is for Intel and AMD to race to the bottom in pricing. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case. They will keep affordable pricing and compete on performance.

[Bombastinator]

10 minutes ago, porina said:

I don't think Intel priced high. It was higher than AMD for sure, but that doesn't mean it was too high. It is tuned for market conditions, as was AMD's pricing. When Ryzen first arrived, AMD had choices to make. I think they went low relative to Intel for two reasons. 1, is that the architecture performance was, overall, still lagging from Intel in many areas. Sure, it even beat Skylake in Cinebench, but that was a best case load for Zen. 2, they may choose to use pricing to take market share. If we imagine they made a CPU identical to Intel they would likely have to sell it for less than Intel to get sales as their brand wasn't there. Zen 2 was when I consider they passed Intel architecturally. Pricing was probably still low more due to encouraging growth than performance reasons. Also if those chiplets really were that much cheaper, it would give them more flexibility there. Zen 3 we now see their confidence at going high with pricing. The lack of supply probably is helping there also.

 

I guess I'm more a tech at heart. Pricing might matter when you are buying, but when you are looking to understand the product offering, the technical details are the juicy parts to focus on first. The last thing we want is for Intel and AMD to race to the bottom in pricing. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case. They will keep affordable pricing and compete on performance.

The market sure as heck did.  AMD chips are selling so incredibly well they’re actually hard to buy.  Doesn’t matter whether you or I feel there is a difference. 

[porina]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 AMD chips are selling so incredibly well they’re actually hard to buy.

While we don't have the numbers it doesn't feel like they're pumping out Zen 3 in vast numbers, so in a similar lack of supply problem as with the current gen GPUs. This is especially the case since they're not even attempting to release lower parts of the stack yet. That reminds me, isn't there that place in Germany that publishes their sales numbers? Wonder how they look these days, keeping in mind that's only one store in one market niche.

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, porina said:

While we don't have the numbers it doesn't feel like they're pumping out Zen 3 in vast numbers, so in a similar lack of supply problem as with the current gen GPUs. This is especially the case since they're not even attempting to release lower parts of the stack yet. That reminds me, isn't there that place in Germany that publishes their sales numbers? Wonder how they look these days, keeping in mind that's only one store in one market niche.

If they can’t be kept in stock and they’re still only producing their higher end chips that they make more profit on it means their supply is overextended and they’re selling chips faster than they planned for.  They could sell more of them if they had the capacity to do so.  The disadvantage of third party fab is you’ve got to be able to predict sales and reserve the right amount of production to do that.  One way or another this did not happen.  Sales are higher than production.

[BiG StroOnZ]

As the great Geralt of Rivia once said, "Hmmm" ~

 

11th Gen Intel i9-11900k Cinebench R15 Run:

 

 

 

Score = 2575 cb 

 

For comparative reference: 

 

 

Zen 3 Ryzen 7 5800X, Score = 2509 cb 

 

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/amd_ryzen_5_5600x_ryzen_7_5800x_review,14.html

[tim0901]

On 1/3/2021 at 8:05 PM, porina said:

While we don't have the numbers it doesn't feel like they're pumping out Zen 3 in vast numbers, so in a similar lack of supply problem as with the current gen GPUs. This is especially the case since they're not even attempting to release lower parts of the stack yet. That reminds me, isn't there that place in Germany that publishes their sales numbers? Wonder how they look these days, keeping in mind that's only one store in one market niche.

At least here in the UK, Scan has stock on the shelf of the 5600X and 5800X. They reported that they were expecting shipment of over 4000 Ryzen 5000 CPUs in the week commencing the 28th of December, of which the majority showed up (although they've since removed these CPUs from their delivery schedule page as they're on general sale now). Yes they're not the most popular Zen 3 CPUs given their price adjustment vs last gen, but hey at least they're available.

 

Compare this to AMD's GPUs, where Scan have still yet to recieve any RX 6000 GPUs since the initial launch in November (and no partner cards at all) then comparatively AMD seem to be doing a pretty good job pumping out Zen 3.

Spoiler

06/01/2021 - Currently supply is extremely tight on all of the RX 6000 series GPU's. As shipments arrive we will list available stock for sale on the website. At this time we will not be taking pre-orders for cards as we are unable to give any estimates on wait times.

PLEASE BE AWARE: Our customer service phone lines and live chat are extremely busy, and only have the same information as given on this page, so we ask that unless your enquiry is urgent then try not to contact us regarding AMD Radeon 6000 series. We will continue to provide the latest information on this page.

We thank you for your patience and support.

02/12/20 - As yet we still have no information on shipments arriving of the 6000 series GPUs. As soon as we have information we will share a table on this page.

25/11/20 - So far we have no new information on shipments arriving for the 6800 or 6800XT models. For the custom cooler cards launching at 2pm we have received no stock so we will not be offering any of these for sale or pre-order today. For now we have removed them from the website until we have more information. We are sorry for the inconvenience to those who would like to pre-order. As soon as we get confirmed shipping and stock on shelf information we will share it on this page and list the available models on the website.

20/11/20 - As yet we have no further update on stock arriving for the Radeon 6000 series cards. We will provide another update on Monday although it could be mid-week before we know more information.

18/11/20 - Welcome to our FAQ page for AMD Radeon 6000 Series GPU. RX 6800 and RX 6800 XT launched at 2pm on 18th November 2020. We have put this page together to help answer the most frequently asked questions that we have had from customers about the launch. For this launch we have decided to only sell the products that we have in stock and will not be offering the opportunity to pre-order. As new stock arrives we will list that for sale until it sells through. Please see the FAQ questions below for more info. We will update this page daily with the latest information on incoming shipments.

 

https://www.scan.co.uk/shops/amd/radeon-6000-series-faqs

Nvidia's availability is somewhere in the middle. Not on the shelf like the 5600X, but also not completely nonexistant either with several hundred arriving each week.

[BiG StroOnZ]

Fun little update to this thread (will add new info to the OP) ~

 

Intel's new Rocket Lake-S processor has been pushed to 6.9GHz using LN2 cooling and RAM clocked to 6666.66MHz:

 

A mysterious Intel Rocket Lake-S processor has been overclocked to an incredible rate of 6.923 GHz with the help of plenty of liquid nitrogen and probably a Gigabyte Z590 Aorus motherboard. A couple of video clips of the feat have been posted online, which also reveal the RAM speeding along at a more than devilish 6,666 MHz.

 

An Intel Rocket Lake-S CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads has recently surfaced in an overclocking video (this processor should either be the Core i9-11900K or the Core i7-11700K), being pushed to 6.923 GHz operating frequency, as showcased via a CPU-Z screen-grabbed from the video. It can be seen from the CPU-Z that the overclocked CPU at 6.9 GHz supports instruction sets not available to Intel's current lineup of desktop CPUs, but that will be supported by Rocket Lake-S: namely, SHA and AVX512F. Likewise, the cache sizes correspond to the expected changes for Intel's Rocket Lake-S. The overclocked CPU was paired with overclocked DDR4 memory as well, which was brought up to 6,666 MHz, buoyed by a crispy 1.830 V. Motherboard information is scarce, but it's speculated that it's a Gigabyte Z590 Aorus motherboard.

 

 

 

 

 

Source 1: https://www.eteknix.com/intel-rocket-lake-s-cpu-already-overclocked-6-9ghz

Source 2: https://www.techpowerup.com/276955/intel-rocket-lake-s-cpu-pushed-to-6-9-ghz-on-ln2 

Source 3: https://www.techradar.com/news/overclockers-push-intel-rocket-lake-s-processor-to-69ghz 

Source 4: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-rocket-lake-s-cpu-overclocked-to-6-9-ghz-using-liquid-nitrogen

Source 5: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-cpu-overclocked-69ghz-liquid-nitrogen

Source 6: https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/joao-silva/intel-rocket-lake-s-8-core-cpu-overclocked-to-6-9ghz-using-ln2

Source 7: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/77203/intels-next-gen-rocket-lake-pushed-to-6-9ghz-with-ln2-cooling/index.html

Source 8: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Overclocked-Intel-Rocket-Lake-S-processor-flies-past-6-9-GHz-using-a-likely-Gigabyte-Z590-Aorus-motherboard-while-the-RAM-hits-a-beyond-diabolical-6-666-MHz.514081.0.html       

[Arika]

1 hour ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

6.923 GHz

WTF

[BiG StroOnZ]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

WTF

 

113.50 (Bus Speed / BCLK / Base Clock) x 61.0 (Multiplier) = 6,923.5 MHz (6.923 GHz)

[porina]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16390/intel-previews-11th-gen-core-rocket-lake-core-i911900k-and-z590-coming-q1

 

Some official info above:

11900k up to 5.3 single core, 4.8 all core TBV.

Official 3200 ram support

20 user CPU lanes, matches Ryzen

 

Some lowest end 400 chipsets not compatible, but above that is fine. Most can drop into Z490 for example. New 500 series chipset.

 

 

[Moonzy]

Do we have a launch date yet?

[tim0901]

6 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Do we have a launch date yet?

Only 'Q1'. Most unofficial reports put it towards the end of that period.

[porina]

One more detail I overlooked. If you use Rocket Lake with 500 chipset, you get x8 DMI connection to chipset. These are treated as equivalent to PCIe 3.0 lanes, so bandwidth to chipset will then equal Zen 2 on AMD 500 chipset (4.0 x4). Implementation difference in going wider instead of faster. Like AMD, mix and match old generation and you don't get that new toy.

[Moonzy]

20 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

Only 'Q1'. Most unofficial reports put it towards the end of that period.

Damn, I might just pick up a 10600k then

[Bombastinator]

9 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

 

113.50 (Bus Speed / BCLK / Base Clock) x 61.0 (Multiplier) = 6,923.5 MHz (6.923 GHz)

That a cpu is running above 6 ghz total afaik wasn’t actually possible at room temperature.  The maximum theoretical number is(or was) I understand  something between 5 and 6 ghz but closer to 5 than 6.   The two I can think of off hand are it is an old no longer accurate number based on manufacturing systems that are no longer used, or it could be marketing BS figuring out new ways to record measurements.  Something else too perhaps.  Any which way though, one of the numbers is bad. 

[Bombastinator]

On 1/5/2021 at 1:07 PM, BiG StroOnZ said:

As the great Geralt of Rivia once said, "Hmmm" ~

 

11th Gen Intel i9-11900k Cinebench R15 Run:

 

 

 

Score = 2575 cb 

 

For comparative reference: 

 

 

Zen 3 Ryzen 7 5800X, Score = 2509 cb 

 

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/amd_ryzen_5_5600x_ryzen_7_5800x_review,14.html

score seems between a 5800x and a 2920x which is below a 10900k, with a 3900x being faster yet. Going off just this data, It’s got to be priced below a 3900x.  If they ran it at the same price as a 5800x it would be a better buy and AMD would have to lower prices to compete.  It’s only cinebench though. Good test for multithreading capacity.  Useless for much else.   
 

Kinda want to see that chart with double or perhaps even more bars with a single thread score or two on it as well.  Would make for a more useful comparison. 
 

another thought would be an active graph app, because there are 3 pertinent factors all of which change: price, score in a given bench, and total cost of rig. Graph $ per fps and you get value. A given CPU might be faster or slower, but the price of the change has to be implemented as well.  Brand A could have a more expensive chip, but the motherboard and memory both cost less so it would even out, maybe.  a system change would be additional cost of new hardware vs fps gain(or loss) perhaps some outlook action possible on that.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Bombastinator
As per usual assume a Derp or I added something to a thought.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

That a cpu is running above 6 ghz total afaik wasn’t actually possible at room temperature.  The maximum theoretical number is(or was) I understand  something between 5 and 6 ghz but closer to 5 than 6.   The two I can think of off hand are it is an old no longer accurate number based on manufacturing systems that are no longer used, or it could be marketing BS figuring out new ways to record measurements.  Something else too perhaps.  Any which way though, one of the numbers is bad. 

 

Looks like room temperature to me 

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

Looks like room temperature to me 

Point.  Missed the photo with all the dry ice. 

[BiG StroOnZ]

A cool update to this story (something everyone was hoping to hear), will add to OP ~ 

 

Pricing for Intel's upcoming Rocket Lake-S series of desktop processors has recently been leaked by European etailer computer stores. The SKUs that were listed by the retailer(s) include the high-end Rocket Lake-S and entry-level Comet Lake-Refresh processors. Core i9-11900K to cost € 600:

 

Quote

Intel Core i9-11900K vs 10900K Pricing, (2Compute):

 

 

Intel 11th Gen Core Rocket Lake-S Pricing, (2Compute):

 

 

The pricing from other retailers has also been leaked, according to the data posted, some retailers are listing the new CPU at a lower price than the current Comet Lake-S series, whereas other retailers tend to list them at a higher price. So despite the fact that multiple retailers already listed the new CPUs, it is not possible to determine which listed pricing is closer to Intel’s MSRP, which hasn’t been announced yet.

 

 

 

Source 1: https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-rocket-lake-s-prices-surface-at-european-etailers-i9-11900k-to-cost-€-600.html

Source 2: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-11th-gen-core-rocket-lake-s-cpus-prices-listed-by-multiple-retailers

Source 3: https://www.techpowerup.com/277443/intel-rocket-lake-s-processors-european-pricing-leaked

[Bombastinator]

The number I’m seeing given the data sheet that had VAT included was closer to or above €700 not €600. The VAT excluded numbers are a good deal lower.  Below €500 fairly often.  I don’t know what percentage VAT is.  The implication is VAT is near or over 20% which seems high to me.  The take home seems to me to be that the chip is going to be extremely expensive retail compared to other 8core chips by either manufacturer, which used to retail well below $500.  Assuming a 10% tax, a $500 item would be effectively $550. For it to be $700 the tax would be 30%. That’s a lot of sales tax.  Something doesnt look right to me.  We will know what we will know when they actually get sold I guess. 

[Guest]

Almost every Core-i 1100 chip seems to be better value than any AMD chip now, unless Rocket lake has some extreme performance issues. Also Intel should have better availability which is atm the most important factor in real world pricing.