Why I Didn't Buy a Tesla

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, danwat1234 said:

But the traction battery is not liquid cooled and heated. A lot more degradation is the result. 

It’s not a real issue. Batteries are easily replaceable in the leaf, and when they degrade to a noticeable point, it probably time to get a new car.

[danwat1234]

It requires lifting the car and dropping the traction battery same as most electric vehicles. When travelling on trips hitting the quick charger repeatedly it can significantly slow down as the pack heats up. But of course the Volt can't quick charge at all besides the engine.  Thankfully Nissan's newest EV the Ariya does have active thermal management.

 

For the sake of less waste and energy use, replacing the pack is an option. Good that one can replace the original Leaf 24KWh pack with one up to 60KWh in size aftermarket. 

[RejZoR]

Had to look up Nissan Ariya... Ecology and big ass brick shaped SUV's. I love how physics and logic totally don't go hand in hand... But muh EV and helping save the world...

 

Reason I didn't buy and probably won't buy EV for a while is because of the cost. They all cost 30.000€, even tiny little Renault Zoe with the eco incentives already included which means the moment I purchase an EV I'm set back by 15.000€ compared to ICE car. I did some calculations and for my use of car, I'd actually not use up those 15k in 10 years for all the petrol costs, insurance costs for every year and yearly car services (so I could also throw in the best tires for winter and summer every 5 years). Buying an EV literally sets me back 15k € in the beginning and I'd still have a crap car (sorry, but even tho Zoe looks cute it is tiny and cheap feeling compared to my 10 years old i30). Where for 15k I can get a pretty decent sized BRAND NEW car like Hyundai i30 or Kia Cee'd. These grew in size with years and they are even larger than my older model.

 

That's the main problem with EV's for me. I love tech and if I won a lottery I'd probably buy an EV right away even though it would be a total loss from get go. But paying such a massive premium upfront with my actually earned own money for not getting any benefits out of it is just silly, ecology or not. So, I'm waiting the day when EV's get in the 15k € realm, even if they only come with 300km range. It would be usable.

 

Also what people who are raving about how cheap electricity is TODAY are forgetting what will happen once we get rid of petrol cars and governments have to get that sweet sweet gas tax money that used to be obtained from petrol/gas and get it it from somewhere else. Who wants to bet electricity prices will skyrocket at that point because they'll introduce some "EAV" tax (Electricity Added Value Tax, the sister tax of VAT)? Something WILL happen coz there is just no way governments will just let go that massive income for the sake of well being of their citizens and for ecology. You just know they won't with rare few exceptions like Germany or some Scandinavian country. I just know my country will f**k us in the butt coz they just can't help themselves...

[Yatharth Shah]

Intro felt straight out of a Multi million Hollywood production. @ColinLTT, the drone footage was awesome. 

[Results45]

What a weird day. Linus reviews a car......

 

Then Casey Neistat drops a video reviewing folding phones:

 

[Yatharth Shah]

https://rate-driver.ca/BC/515LTH. This needs to be mentioned . 

[just_dave]

23 hours ago, maksakal said:

I've owned 3 (yes 3) Model S's, I've used them as a dailydriver before they became an hype and I can justly say, they are crap.

My first S85 was a 2013 model, this one only gave me headaches. Back then there weren't even any tax insentives and here in The Netherlands there was no mention of a charging network. This one had several problems which never got solved and eventually I got rid of it just because of all the problems.

My second was a 2015, which didn't have the electronics problems but had major quality issues and several recalls, I can say that this is the car with the most recalls I have ever owned.

My Third one was a 2018 model, this is when other manufacturers started to announce their cars and tax insentives started. THis one also had major quality issues. I'm a person who has drives S-classes, 7 series, ML, etc. etc. luxury cars, compared to those cars the Tesla is nothing.

All these people who yap their mouth on the internet are either fanboys who don't own one or envoiromentalists who turned Tesla into a religion. These people go hypermiling their cars and then brag on the internet about the mileage they got, if you use to car like a normal person (like I did) then the range isn't there.
 

People on the internet tend to yap their mouth about how wonderfull and technologic the cars are, well have you ever driven in a car within a similar price range? No you haven't! When you compare to similar cars in a similar price range they aren't as luxurious, comfortable or technologically advanced as some people pretend they are. What other car brands do is diversivy their models. You can buy a VW Golf for 12k and you can buy one for 40k, there's a difference. You can buy an S-class for 60k and you can buy one for 150k, there's a difference. Heck I've even had some kid on the internet argue with me that VW doesn't have an infotainment system but VW will gladly sell you one for 800 euro. He's talking about a 12k car vs. a Model 3 which costs 45k.... You see how stupid these people are? They don't own there cars, they will never own them and they pretend like money isn't an issue or something. Everybody on the internet is a millionair who can just buy stuff, not thinking about the pricetag.

 

Autopilot is crap! When people on internet say that it can drive on it's own and how advanced that is. No it can't! How the Tesla software works is dangerous. What the Tesla software does other brands could do for years and years, but other brands required you to keep your hands on the wheel. Somehting Tesla came back on in an update and now also requires you to keep your hands on the wheel (the stupid orange trick, goed how dumb are there people?).

These cars are crap! They're plastic! Compared to cars in the similar price range they aren't as advaced or luxurious! And before you say that I am a disgruntled customer and that I got a lemon. Did I get 3 lemons?

The Model S is quite shitty. Lemme share my Tesla story.

 

I love tech (and do a lot of science, coding, electronics)  and have been racing in cars since I was 9 yrs old. I'm 18 now and I got Model 3 Performance drive as a gift. The drive has been made possible by a local Tesla/EV group which does these sorts of events. I got to see the Model S Raven 2019, Model X 90D 2016 and the brand new May 2020 Model 3 Performance, which I drove. A direct comparison to the Tesla was my Audi RS3 2019 with nearly maxed options (lacks some drive assists and the B&O sound system), which puts both cars at roughly the same cost.

 

In terms of quality, the Model 3 was surprisingly fine. The panel gaps, alignment and overall fit and finish were OK, nothing exceptionally bad. The interior also felt fine except for the dashboard plastic, which is total trash. A Golf third the cost has better dash plastics. Unacceptable. The vegan leather felt nice (basically same as the "cheap" Audi), the glass roof was stunning and overall the car was very comfy and airy. Audi still felt overall better (mainly buttons, the consistency, plastics and accent materials), but the Tesla didn't make me want to puke

 

The interior tech was widely different in both and honestly, I don't like either one. I would like a small cockpit screen and a few buttons for basic functions in the Tesla and less buttons and more touchscreens in the Audi. In terms of software, well, Tesla wins by far. It feels as good as a smartphone, which is a win in my book.

 

The most important is the driving and surprisingly, I'd give the edge to the Tesla. The Tesla has obviously superior power and torque characteristics, track mode (manually set the torque balance) and all that. It handles fanastic and not more than 5%-8% worse than the Audi, which is VERY IMPRESSIVE given it weighs over 250kg more.

 

Overall, the Model 3 is an awesome car and if you can stand the interior and are willing to get the car wrapped (bcoz of shitty paint), I can recommend it.

Speaking of the Model S, I got to see it, get inside but not drive it. I can say that it's made like ass considering they have been making it for 8 years. The interior feels meh. Only thing it does somewhat well is go in a straight like. A total waste of $100K+. The Model X was just a very expensive joke.

 

Hopefully this helps someone or maybe @LinusTech could read some of these in the Tesla video.

[Egg-Roll]

I'm disappointed in the video, Linus didn't drop the bike, and he took 2 years to produce it.

 

7 hours ago, just_dave said:

The panel gaps

I don't understand the massive hate on some issues like this towards Tesla...

He makes fun out of the hate towards the "quality control" at Tesla. That said there are many things wrong with them I do agree but considering they are new, producing a new type of car (not really, just better than the oldies, significantly) and still ramping up production that isn't made in another country and shipped overseas (I did noticed your location). Not to mention for charging alone Tesla is still the only logical choice at least here, I know there are charging sites and places for all charging types but since everyone is lagging behind hoping this trend dies vs embracing it I can't support them if buying a EV, hybrids sure.

Will I buy a Tesla? Hopefully, but if I do it'll be the Cyber Truck, no paint issues I don't care if the panels are 1-2mm off, that's just being anal esp if everything functions like it should, all vehicles my family have owned had such issues some worst than what people bitch about like little kids over on their Tesla. I do think the S is over priced by at least 15,000 USD esp w/o a exterior refresh, Model X well yes/no as it comes down to taste for the X esp with the Y now out.

[just_dave]

5 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

I'm disappointed in the video, Linus didn't drop the bike, and he took 2 years to produce it.

 

I don't understand the massive hate on some issues like this towards Tesla...

He makes fun out of the hate towards the "quality control" at Tesla. That said there are many things wrong with them I do agree but considering they are new, producing a new type of car (not really, just better than the oldies, significantly) and still ramping up production that isn't made in another country and shipped overseas (I did noticed your location). Not to mention for charging alone Tesla is still the only logical choice at least here, I know there are charging sites and places for all charging types but since everyone is lagging behind hoping this trend dies vs embracing it I can't support them if buying a EV, hybrids sure.

Will I buy a Tesla? Hopefully, but if I do it'll be the Cyber Truck, no paint issues I don't care if the panels are 1-2mm off, that's just being anal esp if everything functions like it should, all vehicles my family have owned had such issues some worst than what people bitch about like little kids over on their Tesla. I do think the S is over priced by at least 15,000 USD esp w/o a exterior refresh, Model X well yes/no as it comes down to taste for the X esp with the Y now out.

If you read my comment, I said the panel gaps on the 3 were OK. I commented on it because it is a hot topic. If you remember that german test of Tesla Model S and Porsche Taycan Turbo S, you can see their trunk was misaligned by at least 5mm, maybe more. If it is clearly visible by the human eye, it bothers me. You are not likely to see 1mm difference without doing bunch of measurements.

 

I also understand Tesla is the only logical choice in the US, it even is in most of Europe because there are a TON of superchargers compared to Ionity or something similar.

 

My problem is that Tesla's $65K "luxury" vehicle has interior that is close to a $30K Skoda Octavia than to a $65K Audi 3. Tesla has $30K car's interior and a very expensive battery + drivetrain, which in turn make the car $65K and only way for Tesla to justify the cost is to call it "luxury".

Tesla has to either drop the price or the luxury branding.

 

I understand the car is made in Cali, but still, only the drivetrain and body get separated, the body itself is intact during transport and reassembly in Netherlands, which means the shitty QC comes from the Fremont factory. This is still not an excuse for the cars to be this worse than an equivalent German luxury car.

 

Also, if you're buying a CBRTRK, you probably don't need to worry about panel gaps at all.

[maksakal]

3 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

I'm disappointed in the video, Linus didn't drop the bike, and he took 2 years to produce it.

 

I don't understand the massive hate on some issues like this towards Tesla...

He makes fun out of the hate towards the "quality control" at Tesla. That said there are many things wrong with them I do agree but considering they are new, producing a new type of car (not really, just better than the oldies, significantly) and still ramping up production that isn't made in another country and shipped overseas (I did noticed your location). Not to mention for charging alone Tesla is still the only logical choice at least here, I know there are charging sites and places for all charging types but since everyone is lagging behind hoping this trend dies vs embracing it I can't support them if buying a EV, hybrids sure.

Will I buy a Tesla? Hopefully, but if I do it'll be the Cyber Truck, no paint issues I don't care if the panels are 1-2mm off, that's just being anal esp if everything functions like it should, all vehicles my family have owned had such issues some worst than what people bitch about like little kids over on their Tesla. I do think the S is over priced by at least 15,000 USD esp w/o a exterior refresh, Model X well yes/no as it comes down to taste for the X esp with the Y now out.

When you pay 110k+ for their most expensive model, you care about panel gaps! You care about sratches, you  care about every little detail because you are paying for those details.

These are luxury cars competing in a luxury segment of the market, you pay for that extra attention to detail. I've never had the panel gap issue, but I do sympathize with people who did have those issues. When the competition does things like send experts to eliminate squeak, rattle and hum, when the competition goes out of their way to (atleast give you the feeling) that you are their top priority then there is something very very wrong.

[Egg-Roll]

7 hours ago, just_dave said:

If you read my comment, I said the panel gaps on the 3 were OK. I commented on it because it is a hot topic. If you remember that german test of Tesla Model S and Porsche Taycan Turbo S, you can see their trunk was misaligned by at least 5mm, maybe more. If it is clearly visible by the human eye, it bothers me. You are not likely to see 1mm difference without doing bunch of measurements.

 

I also understand Tesla is the only logical choice in the US, it even is in most of Europe because there are a TON of superchargers compared to Ionity or something similar.

 

My problem is that Tesla's $65K "luxury" vehicle has interior that is close to a $30K Skoda Octavia than to a $65K Audi 3. Tesla has $30K car's interior and a very expensive battery + drivetrain, which in turn make the car $65K and only way for Tesla to justify the cost is to call it "luxury".

Tesla has to either drop the price or the luxury branding.

 

I understand the car is made in Cali, but still, only the drivetrain and body get separated, the body itself is intact during transport and reassembly in Netherlands, which means the shitty QC comes from the Fremont factory. This is still not an excuse for the cars to be this worse than an equivalent German luxury car.

 

Also, if you're buying a CBRTRK, you probably don't need to worry about panel gaps at all.

I misread your comment sorry about that, but I do agree if it is clearly a visual issue like 5mm or more then yes that should be fixed.

 

Don't follow the website as it's not actually 65K it's actually closer to 75K on the US side of things, not sure about other places but Canada (unlike the US) has ruled it as misleading to give discounts that one might not get as the final/starting price of a car. I would be more open on getting a Model S if it started at 60K USD before incentives, closer to 55K would be optimum. Tho if you look at it like you are paying for the drive train and batteries then while it is a car in the luxury segment it is actually a 30k car with a EV tax, tho now with the 3 out that can't really be argued anymore. I've personally not seen the inside of a Tesla first hand in years, so I can't say how good or bad it is beyond videos.

 

Hopefully their QC will get better now that they are making money, I have my doubts for a few years till the expansion ends (after the Semi or New Roadster), but a lot of complaints about Tesla are things that people would normally ignore on normal cars or wouldn't make a huge media presence over. Tho, free marketing

 

True, only places would the trunk tailgate and doors since it is a unibody.

 

3 hours ago, maksakal said:

When you pay 110k+ for their most expensive model, you care about panel gaps! You care about sratches, you  care about every little detail because you are paying for those details.

These are luxury cars competing in a luxury segment of the market, you pay for that extra attention to detail. I've never had the panel gap issue, but I do sympathize with people who did have those issues. When the competition does things like send experts to eliminate squeak, rattle and hum, when the competition goes out of their way to (atleast give you the feeling) that you are their top priority then there is something very very wrong.

Panel gaps are subjective as most people won't notice the 1-2 maybe even 5mm gaps in most places on a car, scratches should never happen that I never will deny, is it worth losing your car for weeks over? Nope, but it should never happen.

 

Incorrect, in most cases you are paying for a name like phones, you can buy a Cadillac Escalade or Yukon, I doubt the "extras" you get in the Cadillac justify the 25K USD base increase, not to mention you get no extra attention to detail during the production process. If you want attention to detail and a EV currently only logical choice would be a Taycan which may I remind you starts 30-40K more than a Model S starting price. What you are typically paying for are features, it's why you can find a 30K car interior in a 50K car, because the person upgraded everything but the interior. Now does that mean Tesla can cheap out on the interior of their Model S? Not with the 3 now out they shouldn't.

 

Actually Tesla will send a tech out if you are not close to a service center no different than other places, over all I think Tesla is doing fairly damn good considering they are the new guy on the block, and are gaining popularity fast. It still comes down to each person at days end, is your time worth complaining and losing your car about a gap/scratch that doesn't do anything less looks, or spend even more money on a car for looks that has had equally bad press for efficiency issues and the price being too high? To be perfectly clear I like Porsche as much as Tesla maybe a little more, but I would never touch the Taycan when there is the Model 3 Y X and soon Cybertruck, not to mention some of the cars coming out in the next few years trying to kill Tesla in hopes of going back to the old days (really that is all it is, else they would be pushing harder into the market). Simply put all the Taycan is really, is a Porsche badged Model S with Porsche handling and price tag with what the Model S should have as a interior esp on the high end, beyond that its existence is meaningless, great if you want a EV Porsche in your driveway, but nothing else. Actually even if you did that since it is a Porsche and you can afford one chances are no one will care, neighbors will care the second you bring home a Tesla and not in a bad way, while Tesla fails on many aspects their "status symbol" is actually more powerful than a Porsche in that sense, unless your neighbors actually know the difference between a Panamera and a Taycan (Plug in vs EV), most will see it as a normal Porsche with a tiny battery not a EV, and that assumption is only if they hear the car in motion or see special plates that depict EV/Hybrid.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

 

when i spend 60k+ on a car I dont want the backseat base to fall off because its not attached

or a speaker to fall off when i close the door

or the hatch crack the tail light when its closed

or this to happen to the seats when i put it down

i wouldnt even pay 10k for a car like that

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

when i spend 60k+ on a car I dont want the backseat base to fall off because its not attached

 

or a speaker to fall off when i close the door

 

or the hatch crack the tail light when its closed

 

or this to happen to the seats when i put it down

 

i wouldnt even pay 10k for a car like that

You clearly and lazily took random issues off the internet and made it sound like one car... That is slander you know that right? Images are clearly from different sources.

 

Reality check, unless you can prove that is all cars all the time or enough times it falls under defective vehicle laws for recalls don't bother trying to make Tesla look bad. Recalls have happened for Tesla, but no more than other companies. However if you have had to ever deal with other companies over lemons (my parents and their parents have) based on what I've seen online Tesla is the poster child of car companies when it comes to issues and willingness on fixing them. You could today pick up your brand new insert company here and have a bucket seat fall off (or move, like my family has had) internal paneling fall off a brand new car (same vehicle, it popped out but never fell however), and yes the same vehicle even had drop down seats where one seat would even do what your image shows. Did the owner of said vehicle whine and bitch about it like the internet does with Tesla? Not really, they did get the bucket tightened the drop down and paneling wasn't worth the hassle (dealer glued the panel at the same time). It ran, and functioned like the car should have, it was a $30-35,000 used 1 year lease car 40+ new.

If you are not willing to pay 10 grand for a car that could have issues then you really shouldn't own a car of any type beyond a hand built Ferrari however even then you shouldn't, because any car could (and every car will eventually) have a issue that will annoy you in some way. Beyond the issues even if those pics where all the same vehicle I bet the car still functioned AS A CAR SHOULD, therefore those issues are literally one visit away from being fixed, yes issues that shouldn't happen but the seat and speaker could have been poorly done and conveniently fell off in consumer hands thanks to shipping (trucks are not smooth on the road always). The only issues in the images I see worth really worrying over are the tail light and seats, but not even the seats are a issue to worry over since most people won't care or use it enough to care. The tail lights issue can be fixed via an adjustment that likely takes a few minutes and can be over looked by anyone anywhere from any company.

 

I'm not defending Tesla in the sense I support their poor QA, but a lot of these issues displayed by you plague other companies more frequently than one might find online, Tesla gets the heat due to them being Tesla, due to them making changes in the auto industry that the auto industry hates, due to them being different.

[spartaman64]

14 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

 

where did i say it was one car? that is a strawman and if you dont think that tesla's quality control and the frequency of issues is horrendous for such a expensive car then you are delusional. and no it shouldnt be expected that a car will have quality issues i have a 5k used toyota camry and there is zero issues. the seams all fit, the seats dont fall apart, no random wires sticking out. can you find some issues with like very 1000th camry? sure but unlike teslas its not going to be like every single one and they are going to be more minor issues

[Egg-Roll]

4 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

where did i say it was one car? that is a strawman and if you dont think that tesla's quality control and the frequency of issues is horrendous for such a expensive car then you are delusional. and no it shouldnt be expected that a car will have quality issues i have a 5k used toyota camry and there is zero issues. the seams all fit, the seats dont fall apart, no random wires sticking out. can you find some issues with like very 1000th camry? sure but unlike teslas its not going to be like every single one and they are going to be more minor issues

You didn't need to say it was one car, you laid it out as tho it was one car. I never denied their poor QA as pointed out at the bottom, however most of their QA seems to be within the S and X factory, or maybe 3 and Y users are more lenient due to price. However I would never compare a Toy to a American brand vehicle less maybe the F-150/series because the Japanese have pride in their work and a defect is a negative thing on their working habits, and is a shame on their name. Therefore pinning a Japanese car against an American one isn't a fair fight, one could say well GMC is complete and utter shit because Toyotas rarely have defects in them, however that doesn't mean GMC is actually bad because most of them function as intended.

 

Like I said previously considering how new Tesla is they are doing fairly well, you can hate them all you want, but unless the world turns against them you are on the loosing end. Does their QA suck? Hell yea, do they need to fix it? Yes. Will they? In time they will I'm sure. Reality is most of the issues people point out at Tesla are things that are actually plagued with most NA manufacturing facilities operated by NA car companies, the car I refereed to was build in 04 from a reputable company and had many issues people hate on Tesla about including some hanging cables that while I'm not sure about Tesla themselves, in that car is not visible but kick-able on the passenger side. I myself don't like many things Tesla has done or is doing, but only a idiot would deny Tesla isn't the EV car to go to, unless you live in Saskatoon or some random poor place they somehow forgot about/ignored, or if you live and work at a place that has the charger for your favorite car company, however for long distance travel Tesla is still #1, regardless how shitty they may be, it's the reason why I can't look elsewhere because no one else has bothered (I have actually looked several times in the past) to do the infrastructure or band together to create a universal port among manufactures to compete with Tesla and their supercharger, it's likely because they are so integrated with gas and can't figure out the idea of doing something beyond making cars.

 

To me on this day no car Tesla is currently making is worth my money, doesn't mean they are not worth anything as you clearly are trying to make them seem, the Model 3 is so damn close tho but it is plagued by a few issues that if fixed would be a no brainier to buy for anyone in that price range including myself. That is why in my opinion the Cybertruck is the only logical choice to get, it's stainless steel so bad paint jobs don't matter, it's uni body almost all 1 piece construction means it's not only sturdy but all the gap issues are mitigated, and the base price is reasonable for the range with all the charging benefits Tesla has to offer unlike the F-150 EV. Like I have said about your post the only issues that really mater based on your picture is the seats and real lights, seats for safety and same with rear light, however both should be fixable once found and STILL CAN HAPPEN TO ANY MANUFACTURE, not just Tesla. Sure Tesla has a bulk of the issues, but less buying out one of the major manufactures a good chunk of the workers are still rookies, remember that with a new company going as big as Tesla has qualified workers can be in low supply, so you have to find and train them, so anything that can be fixed with one or 2 visits to a dealer should never be a deal breaker for any car, it's just a hassle to deal with. The car still functions as a car at the end of the day, and if Tesla was really as bad as everyone online keeps claiming why are they as a vehicle technically a good investment on return when sold used? A shit car from a shit company wouldn't hold it's value...

 

Introducing exhibit A:

Sold: 45k base CAD
Used 3 years later: 28K 35K kms Potentially 50%+ value loss

Tesla S? for similar mileage $60K or higher. vs the starting price of about 85K (60D which is no longer being sold online, possibly at all)

 

So regardless what you say/think the handful of users whinging about QC which based on what I'm seeing is no worst than any other NA manufactures issues, just more frequent. They only account for about 5% or so of total sales of Tesla vehicles, most issues are fixable with on visit. Most other issues are just nitpicking, like common you clearly know very little about cable harnesses if you whine about hanging cables, unless it is a trip hazard getting in/out the car and would be very obvious at delivery it is actually fairly common if you simply looked under the dash for most cars, maybe just maybe the worker forgot to tie one part down, it's irritating but not a "defect" and possibly a easy fix for even the least car savvy person around to fix.

But hey this is the internet and people love to bitch... So bitch away I guess Of FYI Doug (video above) poked at Tesla for crappy interior when reviewing the Taycan, and I do agree with him and many others about it.

[spartaman64]

21 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

 

no i didnt im pointing out that someone had those things happen to them and if either one of those things happen to my car im returning it. and yes i wouldnt buy american cars either and tesla is an american car. and I dont hate tesla i dont treat companies like they are sports teams i dont hate the company. if tesla fails what do i lose or gain? nothing if tesla succeeds what do i lose or gain? nothing. and teslas are in fact on paper the perfect car for me but their horrendous quality combined with the price is a complete deal breaker for me. and more frequent issues is worse so i think thats a contradiction. and if someone is going to give me a tesla for free ofc im not going to complain but if tesla expects me to buy their cars for 60k then yes im going to look at any issues id have with the product

[Fizzle]

I've got a 2018 Nissan Leaf, nice car, really good cruise control and auto parking. Very fast at the lights. Battery cooling has never been a problem but I've never needed to take it more than 100 miles (UK). I'm about to sell it though I've ordered the 2021 updated I-Pace and recommend Linus gives it a try if you want to go full EV. Good size, great range, plenty of tech and style. 3 large adults will fit in the back while still not being a large vehicle and the kids get there own climate controls. It also has RGB.

 

I've tried Tesla but.. it isn't for me. That center touch screen is a mistake, I don't want to look away from the road to change a setting, I want buttons I can push without looking, just the same for games would you replace your keyboard and mouse with a tablet? Plus last time I got in a Tesla the quality .. wasn't great.

[Egg-Roll]

2 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

no i didnt im pointing out that someone had those things happen to them and if either one of those things happen to my car im returning it. and yes i wouldnt buy american cars either and tesla is an american car. and I dont hate tesla i dont treat companies like they are sports teams. if tesla fails what do i lose or gain? nothing if tesla succeeds what do i lose or gain? nothing. and teslas are in fact on paper the perfect car for me but their horrendous quality combined with the price is a complete deal breaker for me. and more frequent issues is worse so i think thats a contradiction. and if someone is going to give me a tesla for free ofc im not going to complain but if tesla expects me to buy their cars for 60k then yes im going to look at any issues id have with the product

You don't have to say something in order to imply it, how your post was made out it seemed like all issues where one vehicle, only after bumping into the video of the last image did I realize the color difference between the seats of the 4 pictures. Someone scrolling threw would/could assume your post was about 1 vehicle not 3 or 4. That said the last images video I don't think it's the tiny trim that's causing the issue but the backing or a fastener of some sort for the backing coming loose, it's a easy fix unless you keep doing what they are doing in the video, either replace the back panel or fasten the loose or now likely lost screw. Like I said not a really big issue for the number of times one is likely to use it till it gets fixed which it can be.

 

Truth be told you should worry if Tesla fails, if they fail big auto makers will use poor sales numbers as an excuse to stop producing EVs and we all go back to the ICE engines that cause health issues from use. However like you there currently isn't a Tesla with my name on it but I'm hoping one day there will be. If only Tesla could improve on the QA aspects of their vehicles, while I still think much of the issues displayed online and in articles are over blown, the not over blown issues like poor paint jobs and the shity looking interior are really things I'm not wanting to deal with and make the cars them selves not really worth the time in buying. Those are really the 2 biggest issues not the silly gaps everyone keeps complaining about unless it causes issues like the Y currently has with the hatch, nor all the minor issues like the back seats not going down automatically (wa wa 1st world problems much? 2 feet and a heart beat right? Walk... Only person that should really complain about it while waiting for them to fix it is someone in a wheelchair or with a mobility issue), in almost every video I see people not mention the interior but the gaps, the silly gaps that mean nothing but ascetics. I get it 60K is a lot of money, but it is still the only logical choice, and is also why I'm heavily relying on the Cybertruck to be good as least better than the model 3 in terms of quality because every other automaker still haven't had an epiphany and spend the billions needed to actually compete in Teslas market.

 

I also find most people complaining about the issues of Tesla's "after delivery" likely failed to do this (which is something you should regardless of make/model or who is selling it):

I also hope Linus does it too, because I really want to see if Tesla incidentally sends them a botched up unit to review

So yea, we need Tesla to succeed but in order to buy like you they need to get their act together, I don't care about panel gaps that don't harm the cars functionality, I care about shity paint jobs that even where I last work wouldn't accept (that's saying something ), and the interior looking like it belongs in a model car, let alone a 60k one. If I could pick up a Model 3 in Canada today for 30K new or used (low mi, no accident normal etc) with a shity paint job I wouldn't care as long as the interior was half decent, a few grand later and you got a good paint job, but to expect me to pay 45 as a base hell no. Beyond that almost everything wrong with Tesla sums up the NA automotive industry in terms of QA, if you find it in Tesla you'll find it in Ford GM Chrysler to some degree, aka a huge steaming pile of that needs a good smack across the head and follow at least Germany in quality, PLEASE at least them, preference is obviously Japan but that seems to be a huge stretch for the US industry, but if they could take even 25% of the quality from German engineering and manufacturing maybe just maybe it'll fix a good portion of Teslas issues and change many minds on not getting one. Based on quarterly sales Tesla is doing fine w/o us, but for how long till all the QA issues start catching up? I know how to spot shity paint jobs most don't unless it's obvious, and while the shity paint job won't effect the car much in terms of functionality (it can hurt efficiency as it is not smooth), I wouldn't be able to stare at it for any amount of time w/o regrets.

[maksakal]

10 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Panel gaps are subjective as most people won't notice the 1-2 maybe even 5mm gaps in most places on a car

The problem isn't just one panel being out of allingment. The problem is that several panels and lights are out of allingment resulting in a cumulative result of crooked lines and misalligned doors and lights. From a distance even it looks like a 5 year old stuck toghether everything with some glue.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, maksakal said:

The problem isn't just one panel being out of allingment. The problem is that several panels and lights are out of allingment resulting in a cumulative result of crooked lines and misalligned doors and lights. From a distance even it looks like a 5 year old stuck toghether everything with some glue.

Still subjective as long as it doesn't negatively affect daily/use, if you can't tolerate it then sure get them to fix it, but it isn't technically broken, just can look off from a distance. The question is also how far one needs to be to see it being off, some panels are obvious even in the videos I've seen, but the weird part is at least one person skimmed right by the obvious piece to complain about something that wasn't obvious No one can demand you to take something that you believe is defective or poorly made, for me it's the paint job more than anything else bad Tesla has to offer on delivery (interior is really the reason not buying a Tesla for the current price). That is why it is important regardless the vehicle to do a full inspection yourself and via a mechanic, worst that will happen is you lose your deposit vs dealing with possibly a nightmare. Tho I have my doubts 90% of the gaping issues would actually cause such a nightmare unless Tesla doesn't fix it every time making you lose your car for weeks (tallied up) via service calls, but that's when the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes into play so long as the gaps don't harm functionality, which if it does and not yet fixed then the car should fall under lemon laws.

So one can argue till their face turns blue about how gaps in the panels are "defective" but if everything functions as intended it's just a ugly car, the issue for consumers is Telsa and their "within tolerance" lines, which like the local transit system is basically a joke, Tesla workers could claim 5mm is well within tolerance so long as it doesn't cause issues in daily use, just like how the local bus service sees it as ok to have a bus every 21 minutes with a 5 minute delay and 5 minute early tolerance, do the math, it's really really stupid for a public system as big as them, which is the same with Tesla's subjective tolerance levels, tho one video about the bumper (link below) seems to be a little anal if you ask me.

 

Oh fyi, the silver trim part imo is perfectly acceptable it actually doesn't look bad and can be comparable to what other NA makers produce at times, could be fixed but not the worst Tesla has done, it looks like it is literally 1mm... Also 2 min in he never pointed out the passenger sides gap on the trim, blind or hoping no one would notice his short shortsightedness Biggest issue is clear tho at the 2 min mark and why if anything no one should buy a Tesla till they fix it everything else Tesla could throw at you issue wise is a easy fix compared to it, focus real hard (white is a bad color to show the issue, but at 1080 and the mirror you'll see it).

[YellowJersey]

Man, I wish I could afford the insurance on a newer car, let alone a newer car.

[danwat1234]

Check out a cool app Brian Batista developed for the Chevy Volt. Allows you to control many parts of the car with your phone. Roll up/down windows.

control all the interior/exterior lights individually, wipers, horn. https://photos.app.goo.gl/mxRb4CWvSWED4dmD7  You can find the .apk file in the Chevy Volt DIY and Modding Group, FB. Or DM me.

 

It will even let you roll up all the windows with the touch of one button on the phone's/tablet's touch screen! Something Linus complained about in his video of having to hold all the switches up besides driver's to roll up all the windows..

 

There is another app to to see battery voltages, temperatures of different components of the drivetrain (MyGreenVolt) and another to query the Battery Management System what the battery capacity is (how much degradation) (MyVoltCapacity). 

[caincha]

Don't know if it was already mentioned but what happens with that car's battery once it's dead or if it's faulty for some reason? The vast majority of people who buy electric cars are all about 'saving the planet from pollution' but never consider 1) how that electricity is produced (what is its carbon footprint?) or 2) how the battery is disposed off later on?

And this video also ignored that… 

[Results45]

14 hours ago, caincha said:

Don't know if it was already mentioned but what happens with that car's battery once it's dead or if it's faulty for some reason? The vast majority of people who buy electric cars are all about 'saving the planet from pollution' but never consider 1) how that electricity is produced (what is its carbon footprint?) or 2) how the battery is disposed off later on?

And this video also ignored that… 

 

It's not really an in-depth video on the ecological viability of electric cars as Linus' Volt is a plug-in hybrid (think Prius, but you can avoid using gas altogether as long as you don't drive that much each day) that uses gas when the battery is depleted. As with 100% EVs, it has been studied and confirmed that over the average warrantied ownership of an Tesla with today's Li-Ion battery tech that the battery pack degrades no more than 25% over 350,000 miles. Some electric car manufacturers will allocate 10-20% of the battery cells as reserve to compensate for deteriorated cells down the line. Tesla is pretty close to introducing improved "dry-cell" Li-Ion batteries with 20% more energy density that are rated for 1 Million miles. That means that it will last that long with minimal degredation before needing to be replaced. Also, solid-state batteries with multiple times the energy density, longevity, and charging speed are expected to be in widespread use in 10 years.

 

As for charging, the US electric grid is currently a mixed bag comprised of 61% natural gas + coal (NG is quickly replacing coal), 20% nuclear, 17% various renewable sources, and 2% miscellaneous sources. In order for owning an EV or hydrogen vehicle to be carbon neutral, the US will need to enact a national carbon tax as well as replace all coal/natural gas capacity with renewables, nuclear, and battery/supercapacitor storage in the next 30-35 years (by 2050-ish). Meanwhile, rumors point to Tesla venturing into the utility market with their Autobidder management software which essentially pays buys up excess renewable-generated electricity on the cheap and pays Tesla vehicle & Power Wall owners to store that capacity for later use before re-selling that capacity to the market and paying-out the savings/profits (aka buying, storing, and redistributing otherwise wasted renewable electricity by "renting" spare distributed consumer storage capacity).

 

I don't know a lot about this, but disposing spent battery cells will likely be handled by Tesla where they will break them down and reuse/recycle as much of the raw components as possible while producing as little pollution & waste as possible. I would do a bit of info digging youself.

 

Oh, and Tesla Battery Day is this week so maybe take some time to watch the livestream or recording.

 

UPDATE: Tesla is going to reuse spent batteries to make the Million Mile batteries.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Results45
Sources......oh yeah.

[Results45]

Tesla Battery Day Live:

 

Man, the honk-a-thon in response to Elon. XD