Moving from r5 3600 to 10700?

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 minute ago, CWellB said:

I'm aiming for 140 minimum fps in my games and f12020 maxed out at 1400p runs at a lowest fps of 100 currently.

wont make a significant difference at 1440p, maybe 2-5fps.

[Haro]

10 hours ago, CWellB said:

I'm aiming for 140 minimum fps

why? either way a 10700 wont change a whole lot. 

what's your budget for a new board? 

[CWellB]

2 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

keyword benchmark, stock cooler and pbo

 

 wont make a difference at 1080p, and b550 doesnt support intel either.

I've seen benchmarks of shadow of the tomb raider showing Intel cpus getting 100 fps where ryzen was getting 83, on the same gpu at 1400p. This led me to believe there might be fps to be found still. 

[schwellmo92]

1 minute ago, CWellB said:

I've seen benchmarks of shadow of the tomb raider showing Intel cpus getting 100 fps where ryzen was getting 83, on the same gpu at 1400p. This led me to believe there might be fps to be found still. 

It'll be game dependent, anywhere from 0-10% improvement at 1440p. Your real bottleneck is the GPU.

[CWellB]

1 minute ago, TofuHaroto said:

why? either way a 10700 wont change a whole lot. 

what's your budget for a new board? 

Adjusting settings to have a very smooth 140 fps looks quite different to me during gameplay. Appears smoother than I've ever seen and it's hard to game lower than 120fps now after being spoiled.... Budget isn't really a big concern but with that said while I'm trying to spend to gain fps, not necessarily making a perfect cost/benefit choice, I'd still rather not overspend on components that will make 0 difference. 

 

My budget enables chasing 10-15 minimum (not avg) fps improvements if it's there. 

[schwellmo92]

Just now, CWellB said:

Adjusting settings to have a very smooth 140 fps looks quite different to me during gameplay. Appears smoother than I've ever seen and it's hard to game lower than 120fps now after being spoiled.... Budget isn't really a big concern but with that said while I'm trying to spend to gain fps, not necessarily making a perfect cost/benefit choice, I'd still rather not overspend on components that will make 0 difference. 

 

My budget enables chasing 10-15 minimum (not avg) fps improvements if it's there. 

[CWellB]

2 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

It'll be game dependent, anywhere from 0-10% improvement at 1440p. Your real bottleneck is the GPU.

GPU will definitely get swapped with 3080ti etc whenever those exist. I guess I'm essentially trying to just get every minimum frame that I can, from this gpu currently. 

[Haro]

10 hours ago, CWellB said:

I'd still rather not overspend on components that will make 0 difference. 

then why do you want to get a new board an a 10700? the performance difference will be little. 

anyways though,

b550 tomahawk.

b550 mortar.

b550 a pro.

b550 aorus pro.

b550 strix f. are all really good.

[Mateyyy]

I'd say either get a good B550/X570 board now and keep the 3600 until Zen 3 releases, or if you're worried about every last little frame, get a solid Z490 board and a 10600K.

Getting a locked Intel chip nowadays makes little to no sense really, because Intel's advantage in gaming also comes from higher clock speeds, not just the ring bus. And really, a 6C/12T can handle gaming and background tasks no problem.

 

Considering you're gaming at 1440p, I think my vote goes towards getting a B550/X570 board and upgrading to Zen 3 later. On that note, what's your budget for the upgrade?

[CWellB]

1 minute ago, Mateyyy said:

I'd say either get a good B550/X570 board now and keep the 3600 until Zen 3 releases, or if you're worried about every last little frame, get a solid Z490 boards and a 10600K.

Getting a locked Intel chip nowadays makes little to no sense really, because Intel's advantage in gaming also comes from higher clock speeds, not just the ring bus. And really, a 6C/12T can handle gaming and background tasks no problem.

 

Considering you're gaming at 1440p, I think my vote goes towards getting a B550/X570 board and upgrading to Zen 3 later.

Thank you this is very relevant for me. 

 

I agree the 550/570 and switching to zen3 makes sense for my situation.

 

Any good reasons to go 570 rather than 550?

[CWellB]

3 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

I'd say either get a good B550/X570 board now and keep the 3600 until Zen 3 releases, or if you're worried about every last little frame, get a solid Z490 boards and a 10600K.

Getting a locked Intel chip nowadays makes little to no sense really, because Intel's advantage in gaming also comes from higher clock speeds, not just the ring bus. And really, a 6C/12T can handle gaming and background tasks no problem.

 

Considering you're gaming at 1440p, I think my vote goes towards getting a B550/X570 board and upgrading to Zen 3 later.

10600k is sold out around me so I may have to go zen3 550/570 route if I'm being impatient. 

[CWellB]

6 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

then why do you want to get a new board an a 10700? the performance difference will be little. 

anyways though,

b550 tomahawk.

b550 mortar.

b550 a pro.

b550 aorus pro.

b550 strix f. are all really good.

Reason was only because 10600k and 10700k are sold out everywhere around me currently... And I wasn't convinced gojng up to 10900k made sense at all for what I'm doing. 

[Mateyyy]

Just now, CWellB said:

Thank you this is very relevant for me. 

 

I agree the 550/570 and switching to zen3 makes sense for my situation.

 

Any good reasons to go 570 rather than 550?

B550 realistically offers everything most people need, including (on the actually good boards) solid power delivery for even the 16-core 3950X and a good amount of features.

The benefits of X570 mostly come in the form of better connectivity - more USB 3.1, more and faster PCIe lanes (4.0 instead of 3.0 on B550), and that's about it (?).

3 minutes ago, CWellB said:

10600k is sold out around me so I may have to go zen3 550/570 route if I'm being impatient. 

Ah, right. I mean, at 1440p the difference between Intel and AMD already gets smaller because there's more load on the GPU. Unless the 3080Ti will somehow be twice as fast as the 2080Ti (which it won't), I don't see this difference getting too much wider then. And Zen 3 should improve gaming performance anyway over current-gen, with both higher IPC and/or clock speeds, and faster IF clocks which are crucial for gaming performance.

[CWellB]

9 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

 that note, what's your budget for the upgrade?

I'd throw ~$1100 to get 10% improvement. 

[CWellB]

1 minute ago, Mateyyy said:

B550 realistically offers everything most people need, including (on the actually good boards) solid power delivery for even the 16-core 3950X and a good amount of features.

The benefits of X570 mostly come in the form of better connectivity - more USB 3.1, more and faster PCIe lanes (4.0 instead of 3.0 on B550), and that's about it (?).

Ah, right. I mean, at 1440p the difference between Intel and AMD already gets smaller because there's more load on the GPU. Unless the 3080Ti will somehow be twice as fast as the 2080Ti (which it won't), I don't see this difference getting too much wider then. And Zen 3 should improve gaming performance anyway over current-gen, with both higher IPC and/or clock speeds, and faster IF clocks which are crucial for gaming performance.

Amazingly helpful thank you. 

 

Sounds like pcie4 is all I'd really miss if I go 550. Is it reasonable to believe pcie4 will impact gaming in the next 2-3 years? 

 

Any particular 550 suggestions? I'd probably lean towards the asus 550 options unless you can point me towards an option that won't be problematic (bios issues etc idk) 

 

Extremely grateful for your input thanks 

[Mateyyy]

6 minutes ago, CWellB said:

I'd throw ~$1100 to get 10% improvement. 

..yeah, save that for an Ampere or RDNA2 GPU, once those launch.

 

I'd get a B550 Aorus Pro, B550 Gaming Edge WIFI, B550 Tomahawk or Strix B550-F, throw the 3600 in there and call it a day.

 

If you're interested in X570, then the X570 Tomahawk would probably be the best pick because of the low price for what it offers (though that's a double-edged sword since it's very hard to find in stock), but keep in mind that either of the B550 boards I mentioned has no problem running an overclocked 16-core.

By the time you actually hit the limits of the VRM, where an X570 Tomahawk or X570 Unify would shine, you'll already have been running into thermal limitations on the CPU side, since at ~200W Ryzen tends to spit out a lot of heat.

 

1 minute ago, CWellB said:

Sounds like pcie4 is all I'd really miss if I go 550. Is it reasonable to believe pcie4 will impact gaming in the next 2-3 years? 

On B550 with Zen 2 you still enough bandwidth to get PCIe 4.0 for your main PCIe slot (so for your graphics card) and a PCIe 4.0 NVMe drive in there, and run them at full bandwidth, just to make this clear. That's why I'm saying it's enough for most people, it's just that if you want even more than that you'll drop lanes to the GPU or whatever.

Keep in mind that a 2080Ti, which is pretty much the fastest consumer grade GPU at the moment, barely saturates a PCIe 3.0 8x slot. PCIe 4.0 is twice as fast as 3.0, so it'll be a long time before GPUs start pushing 16x 3.0, let alone 4.0.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Mateyyy

[Haro]

10 hours ago, CWellB said:

I'd throw ~

moving to a completely different platform does not really make sense. considering the performance benefits wont be huge, especially at 1440p. 

btw  the board that you originally had, is it the prime a? if so, then that board will definitely choke powering a 6 core. 

the b550 a pro or the aorus pro are really good, and the tomahawk is also really good as a more expensive option. 

[CWellB]

5 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

B550 realistically offers everything most people need.

 

Zen 3 should improve gaming performance anyway over current-gen, with both higher IPC and/or clock speeds, and faster IF clocks which are crucial for gaming performance.

Is there any reason b550 would be less than sufficient vs using the new platform (x670 or whatever) for the Zen3? Outside of pxie4. 

[CWellB]

3 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

..yeah, save that for an Ampere or RDNA2 GPU, once those launch.

 

I'd get a B550 Aorus Pro, B550 Gaming Edge WIFI, B550 Tomahawk or Strix B550-F, throw the 3600 in there and call it a day.

 

If you're interested in X570, then the X570 Tomahawk would probably be the best pick because of the low price for what it offers (though that's a double-edged sword since it's very hard to find in stock), but keep in mind that either of the B550 boards I mentioned has no problem running an overclocked 16-core.

By the time you actually hit the limits of the VRM, where an X570 Tomahawk or X570 Unify would shine, you'll already have been running into thermal limitations on the CPU side, since at ~200W Ryzen tends to spit out a lot of heat.

Sorry I meant $1100 just now for the cpu board dilemma. Gpu upgrade to Ampere is inherent regardless. 

[CWellB]

4 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

moving to a completely different platform does not really make sense. considering the performance benefits wont be huge, especially at 1440p. 

btw  the board that you originally had, is it the prime a? if so, then that board will definitely choke powering a 6 core. 

the b550 a pro or the aorus pro are really good, and the tomahawk is also really good as a more expensive option. 

Not sure I think it was asus prime b450m

[Haro]

10 hours ago, CWellB said:

asus prime b450m

so it's either the a or the k, yea those boards are not really made to power a 6 core sadly.

[Mateyyy]

5 minutes ago, CWellB said:

Sorry I meant $1100 just now for the cpu board dilemma. Gpu upgrade to Ampere is inherent regardless. 

Oh, well that's quite a lot of money to spend. Then I'd say get a nice memory kit to go along with the new motherboard, depending on what you have now. 3200 CL14, 3600 CL16 (16-16-16-36), CL15 and CL14 are generally Samsung B-die, which are great overclockers.

 

At the moment, on Zen 2, going with higher than 3600MHz (or 3800MHz in rarer cases) on the memory will actually result in lost performance (because you basically want to keep a 1:1 ratio between the memory and Infinity Fabric, and this is a limitation of current-gen Zen 2 CPUs). Zen 3 is supposedly going to allow quite a lot higher speeds, so having that overclocking headroom with B-die would be a good thing to have.

 

8 minutes ago, CWellB said:

Is there any reason b550 would be less than sufficient vs using the new platform (x670 or whatever) for the Zen3?

I don't know anything about X670. In fact, I don't even see the point of a new chipset, with how capable B550 and X570 already are.

[CWellB]

1 minute ago, Mateyyy said:

Oh, well that's quite a lot of money to spend. Then I'd say get a nice memory kit to go along with the new motherboard, depending on what you have now. 3200 CL14, 3600 CL16 (16-16-16-36), CL15 and CL14 are generally Samsung B-die, which are great overclockers.

 

At the moment, on Zen 2, going with higher than 3600MHz (or 3800MHz in rarer cases) on the memory will actually result in lost performance (because you basically want to keep a 1:1 ratio between the memory and Infinity Fabric, and this is a limitation of current-gen Zen 2 CPUs). Zen 3 is supposedly going to allow quite a lot higher speeds, so having that overclocking headroom with B-die would be a good thing to have.

Thanks this is the exact specific info I'm looking for. 

 

https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=26_1832_1833&item_id=169288

 

Leaning towards this board? Hopefully link works for you 

 

If I go with faster low cl ram, what difference would I actually notice in daily use /gaming? 

 

 

[CWellB]

15 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

so it's either the a or the k, yea those boards are not really made to power a 6 core sadly.

If I run 3600 on b450m at stock with no pbo would it be fine? I'm thinking for my wife's setup, she's not nearly as ridiculous as I am about trying to min max performance. 

[Haro]

10 hours ago, CWellB said:

If I run 3600 on b450m

what b450m?