windows 10 New PC - strange Windows freezes (probable cause: NZXT CAM)

[Ruggles]

18 minutes ago, SeeNoWeevil said:

Ok, here's my guide for setting up liquidctl to set pump and rgb on my Kraken X53 on Windows 10

 

1. Download the latest Windows binary from https://github.com/liquidctl/liquidctl/blob/main/README.md
2. Extract the executable and drop it in \users\<user>\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps (this is on your %path%)
3. Hit Win+R and type shell:startup
4. Create a new file Kraken.bat here and add the following;

 

liquidctl initialize

liquidctl set ring color loading ff0000

timeout /t 5

liquidctl set pump speed 20 30 30 50 34 80 40 90 50 100

liquidctl set ring color fixed ff0000
liquidctl set logo color fixed ff0000

 

This sets ring/logo to red. It also spins the ring initially for a few seconds so you can see the script is working (you might wanna remove that timeout line as you should see the terminal popup briefly but I left it in). For alternate colour hex values see here

 

The pump speeds are pair values for liquid temp-pump%. If you want more aggressive cooling I'd just lower the liquid temp values (first of each pair).

 

More settings for the Krakens can be found here

 

If you want to check liquid temps/pump speed open a terminal and run liquidctl status. I was using CPU-Z to run a stress test and HWMonitor to monitor temps.

 

Let me know if anything is wrong in this guide.

Do you know if there's a similar script available that can manage the Hue+ lights as well?

 

Thanks!

[passedpawn]

4 hours ago, SeeNoWeevil said:

Ok, here's my guide for setting up liquidctl to set pump and rgb on my Kraken X53 on Windows 10

 

1. Download the latest Windows binary from https://github.com/liquidctl/liquidctl/blob/main/README.md
2. Extract the executable and drop it in \users\<user>\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps (this is on your %path%)
3. Hit Win+R and type shell:startup
4. Create a new file Kraken.bat here and add the following;

 

liquidctl initialize

liquidctl set ring color loading ff0000

timeout /t 5

liquidctl set pump speed 20 30 30 50 34 80 40 90 50 100

liquidctl set ring color fixed ff0000
liquidctl set logo color fixed ff0000

 

This sets ring/logo to red. It also spins the ring initially for a few seconds so you can see the script is working (you might wanna remove that timeout line as you should see the terminal popup briefly but I left it in). For alternate colour hex values see here

 

The pump speeds are pair values for liquid temp-pump%. If you want more aggressive cooling I'd just lower the liquid temp values (first of each pair).

 

More settings for the Krakens can be found here

 

If you want to check liquid temps/pump speed open a terminal and run liquidctl status. I was using CPU-Z to run a stress test and HWMonitor to monitor temps.

 

Let me know if anything is wrong in this guide.

 

Excellent!  

 

FYI, this will fail if there is a second device for lighting, which is quite possible with the folks on this site.  For example, liquidctl finds my mobo rgb controller as a valid device, and the kraken for pump.  In this case, I needed to specify the device or it all failed.  The easiest way is to use the "match" option to select the kraken device.   This simple option looks for a specific word in the device description, then selects that one.  

 

Failed to initialize:

I listed available devices:

Added proper word to select the kraken.  Success!  Insert this match option in all liquidctl commands the same way (i.e., use with initialize command, set commands, etc), 

 

 

Finally, I find it clearer to separate the temperature / duty cycle % pairs with more space.  I put 5 spaces between the pairs.  Liquidctl doesn't care. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nihontim]

Unsure how many of you are still using Cam in any capacity but I noticed this weekend that the standard product is now running 4.23.00 (release announced 3 days ago on reddit).  Unsure if it fixed the issue or not given that the release notes are exactly the same as the beta notes but I've somehow stopped experiencing the issue on my machine. 

 

Admittedly there could be other factors contributing to my experience given that I've recently scrubbed my system of unused/underused utilities as well as updated my bios and drivers and reinstalled Cam clean on a whim just to see.

[Mozart_W]

Hey everybody, i had this problem too and still have it but i figured it out after some time... Disable Global C-state in bios and it should fix it but otherwise yea its CAM and nzxt had said they are working on it but i HIGHLY doubt that but again disable global c-state in bios and it should fix it, it fixed it for me and a few people on a discord server

Hope this helps and im sorry if someone already have said this but i dont really feel like reading 19 pages XD
Have a nice day :D

[apexcrisis]

1 hour ago, nihontim said:

Unsure how many of you are still using Cam in any capacity but I noticed this weekend that the standard product is now running 4.23.00 (release announced 3 days ago on reddit).  Unsure if it fixed the issue or not given that the release notes are exactly the same as the beta notes but I've somehow stopped experiencing the issue on my machine. 

 

Admittedly there could be other factors contributing to my experience given that I've recently scrubbed my system of unused/underused utilities as well as updated my bios and drivers and reinstalled Cam clean on a whim just to see.

Running CAM 4.23.00 for a few days here, still freezes under certain circumstances. 

When I open Discord, PC freezes within like 15 minutes. When I put it to sleep and wake it up again, it starts freezing 100% of the time within 5 minutes. So if I don't open Discord/iCUE or put the computer to sleep, it won't freeze... Annoying but at least it sort of works... If I need to use Discord I close CAM.

[Ruggles]

3 hours ago, apexcrisis said:

Running CAM 4.23.00 for a few days here, still freezes under certain circumstances. 

When I open Discord, PC freezes within like 15 minutes. When I put it to sleep and wake it up again, it starts freezing 100% of the time within 5 minutes. So if I don't open Discord/iCUE or put the computer to sleep, it won't freeze... Annoying but at least it sort of works... If I need to use Discord I close CAM.

So are you saying that simply by going to the Task Bar and "Right Click + Exit NZXT CAM" will also prevent freezing from occurring?

[MeguBaku]

3 hours ago, Ruggles said:

So are you saying that simply by going to the Task Bar and "Right Click + Exit NZXT" will also prevent freezing from occurring?

Closing CAM will prevent freezings if you are experiencing them, as it's the source.

If you are using CAM for a cooling solution such as an AIO, closing it will also stop adapting to your computer temps, so beware.

 

It is recommended you switch to liquidctl or replace the AIO with another brand and get rid of CAM.

Worst case scenario in case you don't want to do any of that, put the pump/fan speed at an according threshold for the workload you are going to do before closing CAM (e.g. if you are going to encode or game, ramp up the RPM / Pump speed).

[SeeNoWeevil]

On 4/25/2021 at 5:13 PM, passedpawn said:

 

Excellent!  

 

FYI, this will fail if there is a second device for lighting

Good points, added matching.

 

 

What bothers me is, liquidctl proves you can send commands down the bus to the pump and the firmware will operate on a liquid temp/pump duty curve without continually being adjusted be external software. Why then does the pump operate at a fixed speed by default without receiving external input? Why can't it default to a sensible curve and people wouldn't even need CAM? 

[MeguBaku]

39 minutes ago, SeeNoWeevil said:

Good points, added matching.

 

 

What bothers me is, liquidctl proves you can send commands down the bus to the pump and the firmware will operate on a liquid temp/pump duty curve without continually being adjusted be external software. Why then does the pump operate at a fixed speed by default without receiving external input? Why can't it default to a sensible curve and people wouldn't even need CAM? 

I'm guessing liquidctl runs in the background with a very small footprint to adapt for temps.

 

In any case NZXT clearly trying to push you into their ecosystem with their garbage software. Maybe they can sell you stuff in the future with it, and it's forced updates...

Clearly the main purpose is not being operational without trouble but being persistent by making itself essential for hardware to work properly.

[bunkermagnus]

For those who has a X-series NZXT AIO coolling solution, there is a serious software out there that has support for that pump called Argus Monitor. I bought a license this last X-mas when it was on sale and it's a very flexible software solution that can be used to control all kinds of fans and some pumps, including the X series of NZXT.

 

Unfortunately I had a Z series so I returned my NZXT and got a Corsair Capellix instead, not as sexy but at least the software is stable.

[ivan5150]

58 minutes ago, bunkermagnus said:

For those who has a X-series NZXT AIO coolling solution, there is a serious software out there that has support for that pump called Argus Monitor. I bought a license this last X-mas when it was on sale and it's a very flexible software solution that can be used to control all kinds of fans and some pumps, including the X series of NZXT.

 

Unfortunately I had a Z series so I returned my NZXT and got a Corsair Capellix instead, not as sexy but at least the software is stable.

Argus Monitor support X-series since vers. 

5.2.06

- 2021/03/16

 

• Support for NZXT Kraken Liquid CPU Coolers, models Z53, Z63, Z73

 

I'll try this software for sure, thank you!

Anyway i have disabled Global C-state and didnt have any freeze since 2 days... lets see... does anyone know if global c-state can be disabled? what I will miss with this feature disabled? Is it safe?  thank you!

[Alpintosh]

2 hours ago, ivan5150 said:

Argus Monitor support X-series since vers. 

5.2.06

- 2021/03/16

 

• Support for NZXT Kraken Liquid CPU Coolers, models Z53, Z63, Z73

 

I'll try this software for sure, thank you!

Anyway i have disabled Global C-state and didnt have any freeze since 2 days... lets see... does anyone know if global c-state can be disabled? what I will miss with this feature disabled? Is it safe?  thank you!

C-States is in very basical terms, a power saver feature, that disables the unusued cores to reduce power consuption when in idle mode. What you will lose is couple of watts of power consuption, but I think this is negligable compared to having freezes randomly.

 

Before NZXT finds a proper solution for this, this is the least tedious solution. I disabled it and did not have any freezes after that. And yes, it is totally safe. 

[MeguBaku]

3 hours ago, bunkermagnus said:

For those who has a X-series NZXT AIO coolling solution, there is a serious software out there that has support for that pump called Argus Monitor. I bought a license this last X-mas when it was on sale and it's a very flexible software solution that can be used to control all kinds of fans and some pumps, including the X series of NZXT.

 

Unfortunately I had a Z series so I returned my NZXT and got a Corsair Capellix instead, not as sexy but at least the software is stable.

Having to pay for a license of a software to control the AIO you purchased though... lol that's a new NZXT low level

[bunkermagnus]

2 hours ago, ivan5150 said:

Argus Monitor support X-series since vers. 

5.2.06

- 2021/03/16

 

• Support for NZXT Kraken Liquid CPU Coolers, models Z53, Z63, Z73

 

I'll try this software for sure, thank you!

Anyway i have disabled Global C-state and didnt have any freeze since 2 days... lets see... does anyone know if global c-state can be disabled? what I will miss with this feature disabled? Is it safe?  thank you!

You're welcome.

 

The support for Z series could be "read only" as is reading coolant tremperatrure and be able to control chassis fanns connected to motherboard header base on that termperature. I'm faily certain I looked into this while suffering the NZXT CAM madness and concluded that the pump itself on Z-seris could not be controlled from Argus monitor.

 

[phonywall]

Has anyone found a third party software to control the case lights? Or does anyone know what I need to unplug from the motherboard or the case to disable the rgb lighting?

[MeguBaku]

5 hours ago, phonywall said:

Has anyone found a third party software to control the case lights? Or does anyone know what I need to unplug from the motherboard or the case to disable the rgb lighting?

If it's like the AIO it's embedded in the USB header, so it's probably something similar.

[Sselrac]

This has been my issue for the past 2-3 weeks. 

 

1- Ran latest Windows update, constant freezes / BSOD errors. 

 

2- Got to the point where my computer was stuck in a recovery boot loop - couldn't boot in safe mode either, or restore to a previous point.

 

3- Un/reinstalled my Windows OS, installed NZXT software again, crashes every so often but no BSOD.

 

4- Updated my OS yesterday, back to step 2. Froze a few times, then put me back into a recovery boot loop. 

 

Basically, NZXT Cam is fuk. 

 

 

GPU: MSI GTX 1080

Mobo: Gigabyte X570 Gaming X motherboard 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3600X

CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken z63 280mm

RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB RAM 16GB

Case: NZXT H510i case (built in RGB) and NZXT fans

[Mark Kaine]

On 4/27/2021 at 7:50 PM, MeguBaku said:

In any case NZXT clearly trying to push you into their ecosystem with their garbage software. Maybe they can sell you stuff in the future with it, and it's forced updates...

Clearly that isnt working since after having installed this pos for a week i will never ever purchase any nzxt product ever again , and that was over a year ago mind you, they're clearly either incapable or unwilling to fix these issues , the forced updates are especially offending...

 

 

[bunkermagnus]

I recieved a reply for my ticket with NZXT, I told them to close my specific ticket as I’ve already given up on NZXT and returned my Kraken, furthermore I pointed my support representative to this thread, here’s their reply:

 

Quote

Jules S (CAM by NZXT)  Apr 28, 2021, 5:05 PM PDT  Hello again,   I will go ahead and close out this ticket for now, our team is actually aware of the crashing issue with certain AMD motherboards and is looking into a fix for the problem, however at this moment we do not have an ETA as to when the fix will be ready for deployment.  Hopefully in the future this will be resolved to where you will be willing to give us another chance.  NZXT_Jeff in the thread is actually the product manager in charge of CAM and I've been working with him as well when my own system was noted to have the issue as well, giving us a direct sample to work with and better identify the problem.   If you ever need any help in the future don't be afraid to reach out to us.    CAM by NZXT

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

13 hours ago, bunkermagnus said:

the crashing issue with certain AMD motherboards

 

 

How many times do they need to be told it's not just AMD??

[MeguBaku]

14 minutes ago, SeeNoWeevil said:

How many times do they need to be told it's not just AMD??

Probably their system crashes before reaching that part in the thread/message

 

In more seriousness, if they still haven't figured out what's going on, I'd consider scrapping the whole software and building something from the ground-up. I shudder to think how the code looks. The part that it's making it crash is maybe not even their code, if not a certain API, something copypasted, or something that someone coded that left NZXT or was fired.

[TomJohnes]

Damn, I was about to rip my hair out, till I found this article. At least some approaches to go for. I though I was on the bare bottom...

Just spend like 4000$ on upgrading my old 6700K with Dark Hero, 5900x, 3090 and this apperently shitty software based Krakken cooler z73. And now I also experience these occasional freezes. I can move my mouse, but everything else is stuck/frozen. Happens both idle while leaving the pc, in games and even while the temperature is around 65° (not even hot or anything). My old Corsair H115I pro did run hot, but it definiteely didn't freeze the system like this. 

Have so far removed cam and installed the beta instead and set it to fixed profile, that's gonna be the first approach.    

[MeguBaku]

14 minutes ago, TomJohnes said:

Damn, I was about to rip my hair out, till I found this article. At least some approaches to go for. I though I was on the bare bottom...

Just spend like 4000$ on upgrading my old 6700K with Dark Hero, 5900x, 3090 and this apperently shitty software based Krakken cooler z73. And now I also experience these occasional freezes. I can move my mouse, but everything else is stuck/frozen. Happens both idle while leaving the pc, in games and even while the temperature is around 65° (not even hot or anything). My old Corsair H115I pro did run hot, but it definiteely didn't freeze the system like this. 

Have so far removed cam and installed the beta instead and set it to fixed profile, that's gonna be the first approach.    

AFAIK the beta is not fixed either.

 

There's a dev version seems to be working, but it's a very stripped down CAM that was only given to a couple few chosen ones and it was only meant for diagnostics.

 

If you are under the return window, I might consider it returning it and swapping it for something else, if not, there's been software alternatives discussed in this thread, both free (liquidctl) and paid (Argus Monitor). Closing CAM is not recommended as the AIO will stop adapting to temps.

[mangokr]

7 hours ago, TomJohnes said:

Damn, I was about to rip my hair out, till I found this article. At least some approaches to go for. I though I was on the bare bottom...

Just spend like 4000$ on upgrading my old 6700K with Dark Hero, 5900x, 3090 and this apperently shitty software based Krakken cooler z73. And now I also experience these occasional freezes. I can move my mouse, but everything else is stuck/frozen. Happens both idle while leaving the pc, in games and even while the temperature is around 65° (not even hot or anything). My old Corsair H115I pro did run hot, but it definiteely didn't freeze the system like this. 

Have so far removed cam and installed the beta instead and set it to fixed profile, that's gonna be the first approach.    

I'd recommend you too to return it if is still in the return window.

It is not worth waiting and the effort, and we have plenty of good options out there to choose. 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Personally I'd recommend using liquidctl (see my post a few pages back for instructions). It's super lightweight, works great and even if NZXT do fix CAM, it's still bloaty and who knows when it will be broken again with users being unable to avoid the forced auto-updates. Do you really want software automatically installed on your system without your say that could break something, by a company that take the best part of a year to even acknowledge a serious problem?

 

I understand why though people would want to not even give their money to such a company and get a refund.