windows 10 New PC - strange Windows freezes (probable cause: NZXT CAM)

[mangokr]

On 4/17/2021 at 10:40 AM, SeeNoWeevil said:

The pump will stay at the same speed it was at when you closed CAM. It won't follow any kind of curve or respond to processor temps.

I have checked in HWInfo and indeed it does not respond. So what I did is just config the pump to stay fixed (or whatever % you want to) and have it there. At least is better have that way than having the pump at half imo.

[Hiddenprocess]

The NZXT France service has just replied that they are not "aware" of a problem and that it must have come from my USB port ... WTF

[Hiddenprocess]

1 hour ago, bunkermagnus said:

I just recieved a reply on my NZXT ticket which just confirms that returning my Kraken was the right choice:

 

 

Just another automated reply. What are the odds that an application, will bring a whole operating system down just because a settings file or it's DB is corrupt. Usually an application with corrupt settings will hang or crash itself but not bring the whole OS down regularly!

 

This also shows me that NZXT has not taken any extra steps to ensure collecting more data for their developers regarding this particular issue with NZXT CAM.

IF they were really interested in solving this they would immediately reach out and ask for more details, enabling extra logging or something to that extent.

 

It's so sad, hardware wise my new Corsair Cappelix feels like a tractor next to the NZXT Kraken, whick feles like a Porsche.

But hey, the tractor actually works and doesn't assasinate my Windows.

 

 

The capellix works better than the Kraken on the point of view of temperature? I am thinking of changing unfortunately ...

[MeguBaku]

2 hours ago, bunkermagnus said:

I just recieved a reply on my NZXT ticket which just confirms that returning my Kraken was the right choice:

 

 

Just another automated reply. What are the odds that an application, will bring a whole operating system down just because a settings file or it's DB is corrupt. Usually an application with corrupt settings will hang or crash itself but not bring the whole OS down regularly!

 

This also shows me that NZXT has not taken any extra steps to ensure collecting more data for their developers regarding this particular issue with NZXT CAM.

IF they were really interested in solving this they would immediately reach out and ask for more details, enabling extra logging or something to that extent.

 

It's so sad, hardware wise my new Corsair Cappelix feels like a tractor next to the NZXT Kraken, whick feles like a Porsche.

But hey, the tractor actually works and doesn't assasinate my Windows.

 

This is what they copy paste to everyone on first instance.

 

49 minutes ago, Hiddenprocess said:

The NZXT France service has just replied that they are not "aware" of a problem and that it must have come from my USB port ... WTF

Gotta love when even among them, they have communication problems.

 

 

[kvmstr]

the cappellix works fine for me. no noise, no problems with the screw (like many reviews say). Hardware quality of kraken was way better, but its ok in my case. dont miss the display of my z73 that much. switched from z73 360mm to h115i with 280mm no noticeable temp diffrenece.

[ti489]

22 hours ago, BurntToasters said:

There are two "solutions" to fix CAM freezing your system. One which is pretty simple and straightforward is to just uninstall cam. If you dont really need cam to control devices you should be fine. If you have an AIO what you can do is set the pump speed to whatever speed you want then uninstall cam and the AIO pump will stay at that fixed speed until it doesn't get power (meaning if you unplug your computer). Option two which can be tricky if you dont really tamper with your computer, is to downgrade windows 10 to version 1909. Windows 10 1909 and below doesnt have the issue with Nzxt CAM freezing the computer, the freezing issue only happens on windows 10 2004-20H2. There is no real "fix" yet. What I have just said are work-arounds until NZXT fixes the issue. I have been talking with Jeff the product manager of NZXT and currently am running a devbuild of cam and it hasn't crashed in the 2.5 weeks ive been using it!!

Please provide us this devbuild as this could be the solution for all of us. thank you!

[bunkermagnus]

7 hours ago, Hiddenprocess said:

 

The capellix works better than the Kraken on the point of view of temperature? I am thinking of changing unfortunately ...

Hi, yes, Corsair, NZXT they are both very good from a cooling perspective. My H150i Capellix keeps my CPU a little cooler 2-3 degrees C, than the Z73 Kraken did but the pump is a little noisier. I liked everything about the NZXT Kraken more than the Corsair but I can't have a software that randomly kills my windows session. The Capellix is nice enough and I have been using Corsair AIOs for over 10 years and my 10 year old one is still working in my sons computer so I trust them.

[nihontim]

11 hours ago, bunkermagnus said:

I just recieved a reply on my NZXT ticket which just confirms that returning my Kraken was the right choice:

 

 

Just another automated reply. What are the odds that an application, will bring a whole operating system down just because a settings file or it's DB is corrupt. Usually an application with corrupt settings will hang or crash itself but not bring the whole OS down regularly!

 

This also shows me that NZXT has not taken any extra steps to ensure collecting more data for their developers regarding this particular issue with NZXT CAM.

IF they were really interested in solving this they would immediately reach out and ask for more details, enabling extra logging or something to that extent.

 

It's so sad, hardware wise my new Corsair Cappelix feels like a tractor next to the NZXT Kraken, whick feles like a Porsche.

But hey, the tractor actually works and doesn't assasinate my Windows.

 

I just got this exact same email.  Funny considering not only did I already follow these instructions to the letter in my own troubleshooting but that the replay came 12 days after opening my ticket. 

 

I have opted to merely work around the software for the time being but this is a far cry from even a remotely acceptable response by these ticket agents, who apparently aren't even on the same page as the chat agents who are atleast are aware of the situation  offering workarounds.  

[Daniel24]

On 4/20/2021 at 4:30 PM, I hate nzxt said:

I figured out how to make liquidctl work. I am thinking that I should make a guide on youtube to help those who are having these issues. Do u think that this is a good idea and that i should do it?

 

On 4/20/2021 at 4:30 PM, I hate nzxt said:

I figured out how to make liquidctl work. I am thinking that I should make a guide on youtube to help those who are having these issues. Do u think that this is a good idea and that i should do it?

I think that's a good idea. If you do, be sure to post a link to it on the NZXT subreddit and discord.

[passedpawn]

 

 

For those attempting to use liquidctl, the simplest way to get it to work with the kraken is to use the following script.  The "match" option automagically finds the kraken device so you don't have to bother with device number (which you can get pretty easily by running the list command).  Mine doesn't have RGB, so my batch file only sets the fan and pump curves.

 

I haven't played with the curves yet - the curves below are a first guess.  

 

liquidctl --match kraken initialize 
liquidctl --match kraken set fan speed  30 50 33 60 34 70 35 80 36 90 37 100
liquidctl --match kraken set pump speed 30 70  33 75  34 85  35 100

 

Here's the result when running my batch file in a command window.  Not sure why the firmware on the Kraken reports "experimental".  If you want to assure yourself that it's working, just set the fan speeds to 100 for all temperatures.  You should hear those fans ramp right up.  

 

 

[bunkermagnus]

11 minutes ago, passedpawn said:

 

 

.... Not sure why the firmware on the Kraken reports "experimental".  

 

 

Nice job, I'm sure this post will help a lot of people stuck with this.

 

Regarding, "experimental", I'm fairly sure it's liguidctl that reports it's support for the Z-series Kraken as experimental.

Edited April 22, 2021 by bunkermagnus

[BurntToasters]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:43 AM, ti489 said:

Please provide us this devbuild as this could be the solution for all of us. thank you!

As much as I want to, I dont know if im allowed to but I can check. The thing about the Devbuild is that its super cut down and only meant to run to diagnose certain parts of the application meaning resource monitoring and NZXT devices control is disabled. It is only meant to test for crashes and doesn't work like the full app

[BurntToasters]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:04 AM, Hiddenprocess said:

Thank you for your answer, I have this message in my event viewer 

"request thread encountered an error: Failed to send result: Io(Os { code: 232, kind: BrokenPipe, message: "Le canal de communication est sur le point d’être fermé." })"

Do you have it too?

It was something like this yeah dont fully remember because I reinstalled windows again so I dont have my event viewer history but I remember something similar to that.

[BurntToasters]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:11 AM, MeguBaku said:

You forgot to mention the liquidctrl workaround too.

 

Also it's nice that Jeff is communicating with some people, and that it seems that it fixed it for you.

Said that, I don't see the point of not making as many people as possible that has the freeze problem test the dev build to see if the freezes continue or not.

Ive been running the Devbuild for 3 weeks and no crashes so looking possibly positive, though the devs of cam have said they have no idea when a full fix will come out because the dev build doesnt even run like cam normally does its only meant to test for crashes. Ive never used liquidctrl before but ive heard its good so I might check it out thanks!

[wrendan]

Ah yes, after hawking this thread for nearly a week, i decided to make a new account and drop my experience.

 

So, I have an H510i, have the same half-freeze type of issue that most of you are having.

Just like you all, i got no response to the tickets, so, I used a VPN, changed my location to Germany and tried to talk to one of the live chat germany people, lmao. He recognized (idk how) that i was coming in from America, and told me he wouldn't help me. Then, after telling him how disappointing it was that I couldnt even use the RGB on the H510i like i should be able to, he basically told me that they are "working on a fix"

 

So basically, its been, almost a year (around 9 months), and they have reportedly been trying to fix it... for 5 months? Nice.

 

Anyone got a suggestion to switch to from the H510i to something close to the same? Really only got it for the case RGBs and the nice amount of space to hide the PSU and other stuff in the bottom.

[zenidin]

3 minutes ago, wrendan said:

Ah yes, after hawking this thread for nearly a week, i decided to make a new account and drop my experience.

 

So, I have an H510i, have the same half-freeze type of issue that most of you are having.

Just like you all, i got no response to the tickets, so, I used a VPN, changed my location to Germany and tried to talk to one of the live chat germany people, lmao. He recognized (idk how) that i was coming in from America, and told me he wouldn't help me. Then, after telling him how disappointing it was that I couldnt even use the RGB on the H510i like i should be able to, he basically told me that they are "working on a fix"

 

So basically, its been, almost a year (around 9 months), and they have reportedly been trying to fix it... for 5 months? Nice.

 

Anyone got a suggestion to switch to from the H510i to something close to the same? Really only got it for the case RGBs and the nice amount of space to hide the PSU and other stuff in the bottom.

I had the same case as you did but I literally gave up cause I was using CAM for my X63 as well and it was crashing my PC during lectures. I switched my case to the P500A and literally could not be happier, way larger room to cable manage and build in and not to mention my GPU temps dropping 6-10c under load.

[ti489]

I read the solution somewhere in discord, so i dont take the credits for it. For me it seems to be fixed (no crashes since 3 days now running 24/7)with disabled all c-states and change the "power supply idle control" to "typical" in uefi

[MeguBaku]

On 4/23/2021 at 12:59 PM, wrendan said:

Ah yes, after hawking this thread for nearly a week, i decided to make a new account and drop my experience.

 

So, I have an H510i, have the same half-freeze type of issue that most of you are having.

Just like you all, i got no response to the tickets, so, I used a VPN, changed my location to Germany and tried to talk to one of the live chat germany people, lmao. He recognized (idk how) that i was coming in from America, and told me he wouldn't help me. Then, after telling him how disappointing it was that I couldnt even use the RGB on the H510i like i should be able to, he basically told me that they are "working on a fix"

 

So basically, its been, almost a year (around 9 months), and they have reportedly been trying to fix it... for 5 months? Nice.

 

Anyone got a suggestion to switch to from the H510i to something close to the same? Really only got it for the case RGBs and the nice amount of space to hide the PSU and other stuff in the bottom.

I basically did the reverse since I was not getting any help from EU, and contacted the livechat in USA. They told me they would pass it on, but yeah, still have to hear from it.

 

Also for people interested in the dev build, I didn't have any luck, but if you look up in the reddit you can find Jeff Gordnt's email (CAM Product Manager). Seems like my email was not worth even a reply.

 

Makes you wonder if their dev team is also the team in charge in PR/communication, because both suck at similar levels 

[Ruggles]

I've been pulling my hair out with these exact freezes for the past year and a half.
I have an Intel PC.

 

Finally found this thread and can rest easy now knowing all I have to do is uninstall CAM. 
I use it to run my NZXT Hue+ Lights.

 

Guess those will go in the trash too.

[Fakeshemp]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:43 PM, ti489 said:

I read the solution somewhere in discord, so i dont take the credits for it. For me it seems to be fixed (no crashes since 3 days now running 24/7)with disabled all c-states and change the "power supply idle control" to "typical" in uefi

Too early to say for sure but this looks promising. Tried it and am 24 hrs no lockups (a record) with CAM running and I even had iCue going for good measure. Will see how it goes and if it doesn't work nothing lost as I still have liquidctl all setup to switch back to. Thanks for the heads up ti489!

[kvmstr]

12 minutes ago, Fakeshemp said:

Too early to say for sure but this looks promising. Tried it and am 24 hrs no lockups (a record) with CAM running and I even had iCue going for good measure. Will see how it goes and if it doesn't work nothing lost as I still have liquidctl all setup to switch back to. Thanks for the heads up ti489!

i'am through this month ago without success. Maybe the freezes will occour less often but when you think all is fine it will freeze again (for me sometime 3-6 Days while running 24/7 ).

 

This all couldnt be the solution for a 280€ premium aio (z73). @nzxt_jeff where are you? 

[MeguBaku]

7 hours ago, Ruggles said:

I've been pulling my hair out with these exact freezes for the past year and a half.
I have an Intel PC.

 

Finally found this thread and can rest easy now knowing all I have to do is uninstall CAM. 
I use it to run my NZXT Hue+ Lights.

 

Guess those will go in the trash too.

In a normal situation I'd say contact NZXT, because according to them "it's a very small percentage of users of AMD processors" although here in the thread there's been Intel cases before, but I think you might be wasting your time if you do.

 

At this point I think we would get more if Linus/Gamersnexus/Jayztwocents covered it, because the only thing this company knows how to do is damage control.

 

38 minutes ago, kvmstr said:

i'am through this month ago without success. Maybe the freezes will occour less often but when you think all is fine it will freeze again (for me sometime 3-6 Days while running 24/7 ).

 

This all couldnt be the solution for a 280€ premium aio (z73). @nzxt_jeff where are you? 

Too busy adding features nobody asked, instead of fixing the freezes, or finally implementing the optional updates instead forced ones.

[bunkermagnus]

I wonder how many NZXT CAM users that will 

 

a) Never run into this because their usage pattern is; turn on the computer, game for 1-2 hours, turn off the computer.

b) Encounters this once in a fortnight (or Fortnite ) and just writes it off as "standard Windows unstability" and reboots and plays on.

 

Even though I returned my Z73, I just can't let this one rest because:

 

a) It should be fairly easy to find the reason for the software crashing and from the sound of it they've been knowing about it for at least a year.

b) The rest of the product, the hardware is of such exquisite quality, quiet fans, effective radiator, nice fitting and finish & aesthetics

c) Why would they jeopardize their brand name for such a thing that seems like a minor effort to find, investigatre and fix???

[MeguBaku]

17 minutes ago, bunkermagnus said:

I wonder how many NZXT CAM users that will 

 

a) Never run into this because their usage pattern is; turn on the computer, game for 1-2 hours, turn off the computer.

b) Encounters this once in a fortnight (or Fortnite ) and just writes it off as "standard Windows unstability" and reboots and plays on.

 

Even though I returned my Z73, I just can't let this one rest because:

 

a) It should be fairly easy to find the reason for the software crashing and from the sound of it they've been knowing about it for at least a year.

b) The rest of the product, the hardware is of such exquisite quality, quiet fans, effective radiator, nice fitting and finish & aesthetics

c) Why would they jeopardize their brand name for such a thing that seems like a minor effort to find, investigatre and fix???

I can't let it rest because:

 

- There might be other people affected, and NZXT's lack of transparency on their popup changelog only reports it as slowdowns instead of freezes, and people might miss diagnose it like most of us did.

- I lost a lot of time diagnosing and could have potentially damaged other hardware with the forced shutdowns.

- I got rid of perfectly working hardware because I thought that was initially the issue.

 

It's just not acceptable.

[SeeNoWeevil]

Ok, here's my guide for setting up liquidctl to set pump and rgb on my Kraken X53 on Windows 10

 

1. Download the latest Windows binary from https://github.com/liquidctl/liquidctl/blob/main/README.md
2. Extract the executable and drop it in \users\<user>\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps (this is on your %path%)
3. Hit Win+R and type shell:startup
4. Create a new file Kraken.bat here and add the following;

 

liquidctl --match kraken initialize

liquidctl --match kraken set ring color loading ff0000

liquidctl --match kraken set pump speed   20 30   30 50   34 80   40 90   50 100

liquidctl --match kraken set ring color fixed ff0000
liquidctl --match kraken set logo color fixed ff0000

timeout /t 2

 

This sets ring/logo to red. It also spins the ring initially for a few seconds so you can see the script is working (you might wanna remove that timeout line as you should see the terminal popup briefly but I left it in). For alternate colour hex values see here

 

The pump speeds are pair values for liquid temp-pump%. If you want more aggressive cooling I'd just lower the liquid temp values (first of each pair).

 

More settings for the Krakens can be found here

 

If you want to check liquid temps/pump speed open a terminal and run liquidctl status. I was using CPU-Z to run a stress test and HWMonitor to monitor temps.

 

Let me know if anything is wrong in this guide.

Edited April 27, 2021 by SeeNoWeevil
Added match statements, moved pause