windows 10 New PC - strange Windows freezes (probable cause: NZXT CAM)

[Tomasz K.]

@Creativem0nster1 it's not only Ryzen 5000, I have R7 2700X (no OC) and same things are happening

[Creativem0nster1]

17 hours ago, Gringan said:

On a new fresh install of win10.  Win stability issue + FPS drop on games. ( Asus ROG Formula XII / I9 10900 / RTX 3080 / 64GB 3600 ). Armoury crate + CAM

I uninstalled Armoury crate because it was trying to access my GPU (EVGA 2080FTW3) but it can't do anything with it like lighting or fan control.

 

The bug essentially was stopping the signal to my TV and causing randomly black screens and stutters.  Unchecking the GPU on the Armoury lighting control seemed to fix that but it would randomly reselect it.  Hence the uninstall, lol. 

[Gringan]

12 hours ago, Creativem0nster1 said:

I uninstalled Armoury crate because it was trying to access my GPU (EVGA 2080FTW3) but it can't do anything with it like lighting or fan control.

 

The bug essentially was stopping the signal to my TV and causing randomly black screens and stutters.  Unchecking the GPU on the Armoury lighting control seemed to fix that but it would randomly reselect it.  Hence the uninstall, lol. 

Thx for the advice.

My MB ROG Formula XII need Armoury Crate at windows installation. AC also control oled screen. For device detection, only MB and Led strip (inwin tower) are detected in Armoury. I own MSI SuprimX that use Mystic Light.

I have no issue at all since 3 weeks, No CAM Installed. ( i have read cooler z63 is set on silent by defaut )

Actually , i did step by step ( Armoury Crate for 1 Week -> No issue, iCue for 1 week -> no issue , then Razer Synapse almost one week -> No issue ) Next step is Dragon Center for MSI graphic card.

 

I m sure all the problems i had were related to CAM software.

I hope a fix soon.

 

 

[Dark-vash]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:21 PM, Dark-vash said:

 

I'm finished updating my BIOS to AGESA ComboAM4PIV2 1.2.0.2, the one that's supposed to solve the issues with USB and what not. I'm going to reinstall CAM and test to see if the software issues were related to that. 

 

Yeah, it's true. It's prominent on AMD builds, but there could be more than one issue, since some people have conflicts with other softwares, like the iCUE.

 

Will provide update as I can. 

Still crashes with NZXT CAM running in the background... no issues with the App closed... 

[MeguBaku]

Sadly, I don't see them fixing this promptly anytime soon (Specially when in the patch notes they say it only causes slowdowns, and that it's only on Ryzen builds when people have reported happening on Intel too). It's like with the infamous case, until it didn't get enough media attention, no proper fix was done.

 

You can see Jeff has logged in, but has not even replied with a "still investigating" or what progress they are making.

They are also not replying to e-mails, and the live chat just tells you to deal with it, specially if you haven't bought it from them directly.

 

I've given up on this brand for the foreseeable future. Thanks to everyone that provided information in this thread, these freezes were driving me insane and almost made me RMA unrelated hardware.

 

[apexcrisis]

I've been running CAM but no iCUE for a few days and have not had any freezes yet. Did the opposite for a few days before, no freezes either. Maybe it's just a lucky few days of no freezing, but I reckon it definitely is something to do with software conflicts.

[MeguBaku]

3 hours ago, apexcrisis said:

I've been running CAM but no iCUE for a few days and have not had any freezes yet. Did the opposite for a few days before, no freezes either. Maybe it's just a lucky few days of no freezing, but I reckon it definitely is something to do with software conflicts.

Seems like it's the combination of CAM not playing ball with anything else (iCue, Synapse, Armoury Crate...).

 

I haven't heard issues of for example iCue + Synapse, nor did I experience them myself.

[ShaoKahnsHammer]

May as well add my experience.  I have a 3 month old build based on an ASUS x570e mobo and Ryzen 7 5800x.  I replaced a defective ASUS LC240 AIO cooler with the X73 Kraken along with CAM 4.22.0.

Since the install, I get a full Windows lockup every 3 to 4 hours *if* CAM is running - when I close it down, I have no issues.  Not much more to add RE the crashes, but I have a lot more to say about the state of the software from these hardware companies - controlled rant incoming...

When I spec'd my build, I deliberately tried to stick with as few brands as possible as I was well aware of the state of software from the likes of ASUS, Corsair etc.  I picked ASUS as I'm into the aesthetic and have good experiences in the past.  When the LC240 AIO developed a pump issue, I went for a different brand so did my research and the X73 had fantastic reviews, so I broke my rule and expanded the brands.  Big mistake I guess but it shouldn't be a minefield - but that's exactly what this is right now.
Hardware companies don't always make the best software, I'm not sure if ASUS, Corsair, NZXT etc do this in house or outsource?  The main concern I have, is what interest is there to 'fix' software if there's a conflict with another company?  I don't think any of them feel like they would need to code their software to play nice - there's so many configurations to consider and they are designing the software for their products after all.

I wish LTT would do a story on all this software the companies are putting out - they're becoming incredibly bloated, invasive and impacting performance.  Gamers Nexus did a video a year ago on the system impacts and it can be up to 10% depending on your combination of brands.  These companies simply don't care about slimming them down or providing 'light' versions - they want to collect your data and push you into their eco-system.  I think it would be a great story - unless LTT have done one already...
Sorry - that's a wall of text and if you made it this far, well done!

TLDR: All the system software these companies are shovelling out is truly awful and I doubt they have any interest in slimming it down any time soon.

[MeguBaku]

44 minutes ago, ShaoKahnsHammer said:

May as well add my experience.  I have a 3 month old build based on an ASUS x570e mobo and Ryzen 7 5800x.  I replaced a defective ASUS LC240 AIO cooler with the X73 Kraken along with CAM 4.22.0.

Since the install, I get a full Windows lockup every 3 to 4 hours *if* CAM is running - when I close it down, I have no issues.  Not much more to add RE the crashes, but I have a lot more to say about the state of the software from these hardware companies - controlled rant incoming...

When I spec'd my build, I deliberately tried to stick with as few brands as possible as I was well aware of the state of software from the likes of ASUS, Corsair etc.  I picked ASUS as I'm into the aesthetic and have good experiences in the past.  When the LC240 AIO developed a pump issue, I went for a different brand so did my research and the X73 had fantastic reviews, so I broke my rule and expanded the brands.  Big mistake I guess but it shouldn't be a minefield - but that's exactly what this is right now.
Hardware companies don't always make the best software, I'm not sure if ASUS, Corsair, NZXT etc do this in house or outsource?  The main concern I have, is what interest is there to 'fix' software if there's a conflict with another company?  I don't think any of them feel like they would need to code their software to play nice - there's so many configurations to consider and they are designing the software for their products after all.

I wish LTT would do a story on all this software the companies are putting out - they're becoming incredibly bloated, invasive and impacting performance.  Gamers Nexus did a video a year ago on the system impacts and it can be up to 10% depending on your combination of brands.  These companies simply don't care about slimming them down or providing 'light' versions - they want to collect your data and push you into their eco-system.  I think it would be a great story - unless LTT have done one already...
Sorry - that's a wall of text and if you made it this far, well done!

TLDR: All the system software these companies are shovelling out is truly awful and I doubt they have any interest in slimming it down any time soon.

From now on, I'm going to take extra care to select AIOs that go through the bios instead, and that's what I did when I looked up for the replacement for my Kraken.

Can't rely on the software some of these companies provide.

[maxgoof]

Doesn't look like there's a solution in sight for this, I'm really contemplating pulling out my Kraken and going with another cooling option at this point. Can't recommend NZXT to others b/c of this either.

[MeguBaku]

41 minutes ago, grimcitizen said:

Doesn't look like there's a solution in sight for this, I'm really contemplating pulling out my Kraken and going with another cooling option at this point. Can't recommend NZXT to others b/c of this either.

I don't think they have a clear understanding of what's the problem either to begin with. They are saying they are only slowdowns in their patch notes, and only Ryzen machines, and only with other monitoring software when:

 

- Some people on Intel report being affected.

- Some people are not running other monitoring software (That they are aware of).

- Even some of their own pre-built are affected.

 

I'm afraid though, that unless they have a hit of bad press, they won't try to fix this with any kind of priority. Just like with that infamous H1 case.

[passedpawn]

1 hour ago, MeguBaku said:

I don't think they have a clear understanding of what's the problem either to begin with. They are saying they are only slowdowns in their patch notes, and only Ryzen machines, and only with other monitoring software when:

 

- Some people on Intel report being affected.

- Some people are not running other monitoring software (That they are aware of).

- Even some of their own pre-built are affected.

 

I'm afraid though, that unless they have a hit of bad press, they won't try to fix this with any kind of priority. Just like with that infamous H1 case.

It's quite possible that some of the posters in this thread had problems unrelated to CAM. For example, I built a computer many years back that had random blue screen lockups - those went away when I removed the overclocking.  (No more overclocking for me).  

 

I'm guessing the problem won't be fixed until whoever writes code for NZXT reproduces the problem.  Then they should be able to debug quickly.  I HOPE that their code is written by in-house programmers, but I'd bet that's not the case.  

[SeeNoWeevil]

1 hour ago, MeguBaku said:

I don't think they have a clear understanding of what's the problem either to begin with. They are saying they are only slowdowns in their patch notes

That's just damage control. They're not going to come out and be like "Hey guys, we're finally investigating that issue you've all been reporting for months. Yeah, the one that brings your entire PC crashing down requiring a hard reset."

[MeguBaku]

33 minutes ago, passedpawn said:

It's quite possible that some of the posters in this thread had problems unrelated to CAM. For example, I built a computer many years back that had random blue screen lockups - those went away when I removed the overclocking.  (No more overclocking for me).  

 

I'm guessing the problem won't be fixed until whoever writes code for NZXT reproduces the problem.  Then they should be able to debug quickly.  I HOPE that their code is written by in-house programmers, but I'd bet that's not the case.  

From what I read in some place, they could only reproduce in 1 of the 15 machines they have in QA/Development.

And even after reproducing the problem they couldn't identify the origin (yet). I think it was on the Reddit thread.

 

But if anything is to go by, they have been investigating for a long time from people's support tickets from this thread.

4 minutes ago, SeeNoWeevil said:

That's just damage control. They're not going to come out and be like "Hey guys, we're finally investigating that issue you've all been reporting for months. Yeah, the one that brings your entire PC crashing down requiring a hard reset."

Yes I agree, and they are doing damage control at risk of people's hardware, that they will not replace if broken, either due to running without CAM and not getting the curves applied or because too many hard reboots finally broke something.

[Creativem0nster1]

Had no issues with just CAM installed.  Last night decided to try and install iCUE and see if it starts up again.  This morning I'm dealing with stuttering and some small lockups.  100% confirmed it's just an interaction between CAM and other apps.

@nzxt_jeffAny updates on this? I appreciate your help with this!

[maxgoof]

55 minutes ago, Creativem0nster1 said:

Had no issues with just CAM installed.  Last night decided to try and install iCUE and see if it starts up again.  This morning I'm dealing with stuttering and some small lockups.  100% confirmed it's just an interaction between CAM and other apps.

@nzxt_jeffAny updates on this? I appreciate your help with this!

Confirmed for you. Other people including myself have had PC freezes occur with just CAM installed and no other monitoring apps.

[kvmstr]

6 minutes ago, grimcitizen said:

Confirmed for you. Other people including myself have had PC freezes occur with just CAM installed and no other monitoring apps.

Do you also have an AMD or even a ASUS 5xx Board?

[maxgoof]

Just now, kvmstr said:

Do you also have an AMD or even a ASUS 5xx Board?

Running a Ryzen 5 3600 on an ASUS TUF x470 Plus

[Quantum_Horror]

I would like to share my experience with this horrible bug:

When I play any steam or epic game, freezing almost always occurs after a short period of time (I use the in game steam FPS counter). But when I play a "cracked" game, I am able to play for longer periods with cam. BUT Freezing still ocured.

Most of the Freezing Occured when switching windows or moving my mouse to another screen (like to pause a movie or change audiotrack, etc.)

Playing Hunter Call of the Wild (Steam), is a Freeze Guarantee.

 

Uninstalling CAM fixes everything.

 

Asus TUF x570 pro wifi

ryzen 5600x (no overclock)

16gb ram 3600 mhz

........ 980 gtx ........

[cafe-latte]

Hi all

I have just joined to share my experience on this issue.

In October i upgraded from a Aorus B450 Pro Wifi to a Aorus X570 Elite Wifi and have been having this exact same issue since upgrading boards and spent months trying to figure out the cause. All hardware and applications remained the same (Fresh install) as i previously had. I was running CAM, icue and synapse as well on B450 which worked fine with no freezes. I had tried the following

 

• install latest drivers for all devices
• update firmware for ssd's
• purchased new ram (going from corsair vengeance rgb pro Hynix die to hyper x fury 3600 micron die) as listed on the QVL. 
• Format and reinstall clean windows with no additional applications/services. Issue still occurs however i still used cam as that controlled my fans using smarthub
• Reseat GPU, Power connectors, CPU, drives, ram and all USB accessories
• Update to latest bios's. Currently running F33G beta bios, Tried every version since F21
• Changed many bios settings such as disable xmp, c states, cool and quiet, increased dram voltage, disable PCIE4
• Disable windows hibernation and fast boot
• Monitored temps - CPU, GPU, VRM, Chipset, SSD's all fine

I can confirm since disabling cam no more freezing up. . The weird thing is i even had the issue even though i tried troubleshooting with icue and Synapse uninstalled. I suspect issue has something to do with cam not playing nicely with just x570 as other posters have said as my hardware and setup remained the same except for chipset. (maybe other B550, B450 posters can confirm?)
Hope NZXT can rectify this asap

 

Edit - My suggestion to NZXT for future products. Please allow saving of LED and fan profiles direct to the hardware itself like corsair so this doesnt render peoples hardware useless because of buggy software
 

 

 

[MeguBaku]

To all people disabling CAM, take appropriate measures. Your hardware might be a risk.

 

Fan Speed and Pump Speed based on temperature curves are NOT applied if the software is not running. The motherboards have no control over these pumps as they go through USB. It just sticks to whatever last setting it was on.

 

Either get rid of your NZXT cooling hardware like I did or install liquidctl as others suggested on the thread.

[kvmstr]

for me its over. i ordered an h115i now.

 

this mess costs me a lot of money an headaches. i will never buy an nzxt product again. for me this problem started in oct 2020.

 

made an amazon review about this s***. 

 

i hope you will get this problem solved asap. honestly i dont think this will happen.

[kvmstr]

2 hours ago, MeguBaku said:

To all people disabling CAM, take appropriate measures. Your hardware might be a risk.

 

Fan Speed and Pump Speed based on temperature curves are NOT applied if the software is not running. The motherboards have no control over these pumps as they go through USB. It just sticks to whatever last setting it was on.

 

Either get rid of your NZXT cooling hardware like I did or install liquidctl as others suggested on the thread.

which cooler did you get instead?

[MeguBaku]

5 minutes ago, kvmstr said:

which cooler did you get instead?

A MSI Mag Coreliquid. Pump speed, fan speed, and RGB fully managed by my Asus TUF Gaming X570 motherboard.

 

Granted for the full controls of the RGB I need the Asus software, but I don't need it for the basic cooler functionality.

[passedpawn]

It bothers me a lot to know my cooling pump isn't responding to the processor temps. 

 

I THOUGHT that once the NZXT rep showed up here that a solution would be available quickly (lockups seem like a major bug that warrants immediate attention).  So I waited, as many of you have.  But it's time to move on.  I think I'll just go with a Corsair cooler since I already have some corsair fans and their software, iCue, on my system.  Probably will get this one: 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08G1Q3GZR/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_FT3QMTFFG8WMYB5WA2K0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1