The end of lightning is nigh, possibly.

[RonnieOP]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but tbh I think they should leave apple alone.

 

Its their product they should be able to use whatever connector they want.

 

The whole "ewaste" argument doesnt even make sense either since you can already buy adaptors.

[thechinchinsong]

3 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Here is something I bet nobody has talked about:

 

Say what you will about Lighting, but that port is designed to never lose grip and have extremely consistent grip because of the indentations on the plug and the spring loaded grips inside the port. Lots of USB-C ports have very inconsistent grips even if the port is completely clear of dust/debris and tend to loosen over time.

Didn't stop Apple from putting UCB-C ports on their Mac and iPad Pro lines. 

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, thechinchinsong said:

Didn't stop Apple from putting UCB-C ports on their Mac and iPad Pro lines. 

But in that case they are thunderbolt ports that can do USB. There is a diffrence. Thunderbolt being the major thing as it can carry data and video. 

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

Didn't stop Apple from putting UCB-C ports on their Mac and iPad Pro lines. 

USB-C is used for Thunderbolt functionality. 

[thechinchinsong]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

But in that case they are thunderbolt ports that can do USB. There is a diffrence. Thunderbolt being the major thing as it can carry data and video. 

 

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

USB-C is used for Thunderbolt functionality. 

What DrMacintosh was saying was about the physical UCB-C connector type. I am aware that Apples uses the Thunderbolt 3 standard for those ports. However, his point was that the Lightning ports are physically better designed than the USB type C port. 

[Donut417]

Just now, thechinchinsong said:

 

What DrMacintosh was saying was about the physical UCB-C connector type. I am aware that Apples uses the Thunderbolt 3 standard for those ports. However, his point was that the Lightning ports are physically better designed than the USB type C port. 

Yes but Lightning does not have the capability of video to my understanding and if it did it most likely couldnt support multiple screens as well as data transferes. THAT is why they choose typeC, because they needed something thin and capable. Phones on the other side are not implemented with thunderbolt and most likely dont need to connect to multiple screens at a time, so there was no point in changing the port for the iphone. 

 

If this ruling goes in to affect I almost guarentee that phones will go up in price. As companies are forced to spend more on R&D and forced to buy new ports. Then you gotta hope that the companies that make type C ports can keep up. Because there is no way in fucking hell that any Amercian company is going to eat the cost of this bull shit. In the end the consumer gets bent over the barrel. 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Yes but Lightning does not have the capability of video to my understanding and if it did it most likely couldnt support multiple screens as well as data transferes.

Lighting does have video out, up to 1080p at 60fps. That’s very limiting though and is why Apple Switched to USB-C for the iPad Pros that support external displays at higher resolutions and refresh rates. 

[ARikozuM]

10 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

 

What DrMacintosh was saying was about the physical UCB-C connector type. I am aware that Apples uses the Thunderbolt 3 standard for those ports. However, his point was that the Lightning ports are physically better designed than the USB type C port. 

Personally, I can agree that Lightning is the better connector. I would vastly prefer it (solid connector) to USB-C (hollow connector), but knowing Apple... they aren't going to play ball unless it suits them. 

[ARikozuM]

4 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Because there is no way in fucking hell that any Amercian company is going to eat the cost of this bull shit. In the end the consumer gets bent over the barrel. 

Would happen regardless of regulation or not and regardless of originating country (considering that Apple says the HQ is in Ireland). 

[Donut417]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Would happen regardless of regulation or not and regardless of originating country (considering that Apple says the HQ is in Ireland). 

Doesnt matter. They are an American company. Doesnt matter what country they consider their HQ to be in. They will make money at all cost. Fuck the employees and fuck the customer. Thats how it works. Its all about that dollar. They WILL NOT eat any extra costs invovled in the product. It will always be past to the consumer. 

 

Also accroding to what I found Apples HQ is located in Cupentino California at One Apple Park Way. So..........

 

https://www.apple.com/contact/

 

Corporate Address

Apple

One Apple Park Way
Cupertino, CA 95014
(408) 996–1010

[ARikozuM]

11 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Doesnt matter. They are an American company. Doesnt matter what country they consider their HQ to be in. They will make money at all cost. Fuck the employees and fuck the customer. Thats how it works. Its all about that dollar. They WILL NOT eat any extra costs invovled in the product. It will always be past to the consumer. 

 

Also accroding to what I found Apples HQ is located in Cupentino California at One Apple Park Way. So..........

 

https://www.apple.com/contact/

 

Corporate Address

Apple

One Apple Park Way
Cupertino, CA 95014
(408) 996–1010

 

https://itep.org/fact-sheet-apple-and-tax-avoidance/

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

 

https://itep.org/fact-sheet-apple-and-tax-avoidance/

Again offically Apple is HQed in the US. That on their website. So........ Thats just how it is. Corporations avoiding taxes is nothing new. They easily avoid taxes here in the US. 

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Again offically Apple is HQed in the US. That on their website. So........ Thats just how it is. Corporations avoiding taxes is nothing new. They easily avoid taxes here in the US. 

It's also (like most things on the net) not entirely accurate and misses many important points both on both sides of the tax avoidance debate.

[Donut417]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

It's also (like most things on the net) not entirely accurate and misses many important points both on both sides of the tax avoidance debate.

But this thread is as lot about tax avoidiance. Also Apples not the only company who doesnt pay its taxes. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

But this thread is as lot about tax avoidiance. Also Apples not the only company who doesnt pay its taxes. 

Not really about tax at all, it is about the EU wanting to regulate how we connect our phones. Problem is, there are a lot of people who see the word Apple and instantly go into either fanboy mode or detractor mode. The EU can and has acted on taxes already, the issue of lightning is totally separate.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

Not really about tax at all, it is about the EU wanting to regulate how we connect our phones. Problem is, there are a lot of people who see the word Apple and instantly go into either fanboy mode or detractor mode. The EU can and has acted on taxes already, the issue of lightning is totally separate.

Also this issue doesnt just affect Apple. How many Android devices still use Micro B? Or any devices that use Micro B or some other type of connector? Apple is just a good example here. 

[Kisai]

6 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Also this issue doesnt just affect Apple. How many Android devices still use Micro B? Or any devices that use Micro B or some other type of connector? Apple is just a good example here. 

I'd argue that most pre-2018 but post 2010 devices used one of the mini/micro USB connectors, and the confusion is still a problem since people like my mom don't even realize there is a USB-A connector and will have a whole bunch of these different-looking bricks with the USB cable never been disconnected from them. I have to point this out to my mom every time she asks how to copy pictures from the phone to the computer that the USB cable in the charger is also used to copy pictures.

 

People have-been-trained to only use the charger (brick and cable) that came with their device, and doing otherwise risks fire (You can thank the counterfeiters on Amazon and eBay for that.) This is where the "potentially dangerous" argument comes from, if Apple or some other company is not in control of the production of the charger, then more devices will be made in ways that cut corners by excluding safety features.

 

To which clearly the problem is not the connector at all, the problem is that the markets the counterfeits are sold on refuse to do the minimal due diligence, nor take responsibility for dangerous products on their platform. If the US and EU were to say, mandate that all devices with USB as a charging port follow exact electrical specifications, with the same exact safety feature at the minimum, we wouldn't even have this "innovation" argument. We could be doing the entire NTSB thing where anytime a cell phone charger catches fire, every single one of them from that production sequence are sent back to the company and inspected. Sony did this once with the PS2 Power bricks. 

 

Anyway, mechanically the lightning connector is not superior to the USB-C, but the USB-C itself lacks retention, so on a lot of USB-C docks, they're held in place by friction, and there is very little give. Lightning has too much give, and will disconnect electrically without disconnecting mechanically, and there are a lot of problems with using it to charge a phone. Like I might plug it in, but the phone will not start charging, and that what happened to my iPhone 6S, running the battery into the ground and never starting up again.

 

Like I will admit, I actually hate the lightning connector, but I hated the apple dock connector before it more, as there is a serious problem with the cables for it, the wires not being thick enough for the power to charge an iPad properly, so the cables are showing evidence of overheating of the cable 7 years after purchase. The lightning connector likely has the exact same problem, which is is one of a few reasons why USB-C is on the current iPad Pro. I would much prefer a magnetically held connector that has the functionality of USB-C.

[DrMacintosh]

5 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Lightning has too much give, and will disconnect electrically without disconnecting mechanically, and there are a lot of problems with using it to charge a phone. Like I might plug it in, but the phone will not start charging, and that what happened to my iPhone 6S, running the battery into the ground and never starting up again.

What? Lighting has extremely little give. You can support the weight of any iPhone that has a lighting port by the lightning port. Not all USB-C ports can do that and the ones that can often wear out, lighting never wears out. As for the second part, lint affects the charging of USB-C and Lighting equally. If lint fills the port, there is going to be problems for any connector. 

[DrMacintosh]

8 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The lightning connector likely has the exact same problem, which is is one of a few reasons why USB-C is on the current iPad Pro.

USB-C is in iPad Pro because Pros wanted to interface with external storage, output high resolution video (lighting is capped to 1080p), and supply high amounts of power. If lighting was technologically capable of doing this, Apple would have used that. 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Kisai said:

.

 

People have-been-trained to only use the charger (brick and cable) that came with their device, and doing otherwise risks fire (You can thank the counterfeiters on Amazon and eBay for that.) This is where the "potentially dangerous" argument comes from, if Apple or some other company is not in control of the production of the charger, then more devices will be made in ways that cut corners by excluding safety features.

 

To which clearly the problem is not the connector at all, the problem is that the markets the counterfeits are sold on refuse to do the minimal due diligence, nor take responsibility for dangerous products on their platform. If the US and EU were to say, mandate that all devices with USB as a charging port follow exact electrical specifications, with the same exact safety feature at the minimum, we wouldn't even have this "innovation" argument. We could be doing the entire NTSB thing where anytime a cell phone charger catches fire, every single one of them from that production sequence are sent back to the company and inspected. Sony did this once with the PS2 Power bricks. 

 

 

In the EU there are electrical safety laws in place for all devices that plug into the mains. The law however is not perfect and very hard to change. Why? Well there is a number of reasons but one of the biggest holes is that it only covers devices sold in the EU. While that sounds great it does not stop people buying crap from other markets and using them in the EU. You May then expect to go online to Amazon and the like and because you are getting next day delivery the items will be compliant. However what tends to happen is there will be a local warehouse that ships the items, but you are technically buying it from an outside the EU shop. Where it is shipped from doesn’t come into it. As such there are lots of really dangerous electrical devices entering  EU homes. I Just wish the big companies like Amazon would do more to stop this. Google death Dalek for instance and watch big clives teardown of a device that has been available for years, yet is a potential death trap as still on sale today in the marketplace.

 

To me this is what the EU should be investigating and regulating rather than trying to choose what connector we use. They should be regulating against excessive attic packaging, emissions from shipping and all sorts of other things long before the kind of proposal this thread is about.

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, Donut417 said:

But this thread is as lot about tax avoidiance. Also Apples not the only company who doesnt pay its taxes. 

The post you quoted listed several actions, motives and a few claims regarding legality.   I am just pointing out that that list, like most things on the net, isn't entirely accurate and not in and of itself enough information to argue one way or the other on tax avoidance.  I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was adding to your opinion.  

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

What? Lighting has extremely little give. You can support the weight of any iPhone that has a lighting port by the lightning port. Not all USB-C ports can do that and the ones that can often wear out, lighting never wears out. As for the second part, lint affects the charging of USB-C and Lighting equally. If lint fills the port, there is going to be problems for any connector. 

Funny, half the time I put my iphone back in my pocket the lightning cable registers as disconnected, and it's still plugged in. So there is a problem with it. This problem exists on the iPhone 6S and the XS, so I can only assume it exists on all iPhones.

[Bombastinator]

I’m a point of irony I buy magnetic adaptors for microusb2 ports because the connector is so annoying an unreliable.  A set just came in from China.  It’s apparently built a lot like a sort of tiny USBC with a magnet around the outside

[DrMacintosh]

22 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Funny, half the time I put my iphone back in my pocket the lightning cable registers as disconnected

Most likely a problem with a damaged pin or cable. I’ve never had that issue in my 7 years of iPhone ownership. 

[Kisai]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Most likely a problem with a damaged pin or cable. I’ve never had that issue in my 7 years of iPhone ownership. 

Two separate phones, two separate charging cables, two separate lightning headsets, and a Beats headphones tells me the problem is Lightning.