The end of lightning is nigh, possibly.

[Bombastinator]

14 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Wireless charging is iffy at best. I have an XR and its much slower than a cable. Even then I would never buy a phone with just wirieless charging. Personally I rather have a cable. Plus you cant do full wireless with one cable if you want to be able to use Apple Car Play, which I use every day on my way home and to work. Thats the only way I can do GPS and listen to my itunes playlist with my cars infotainment system. The GPS portion BTW does not work thru blue tooth, so wirelss doesnt work for all. Either way they need a cable and the EU needs to pull its head out of its ass if it thinks that making a standard out of this is that important. 

Iffy? How?  It can be slower.  I’ve got a whole bunch of wireless chargers and charged 2 phones almost exclusively with wireless.  Wore one completely out.  Got an extra year and a half out of it I think because I did it that way.  It had microUSB3 which was even worse than microUSB2. My current is an iphone7 no built in wireless charging.  I put a mophie wireless sled on it I liked it so much.

 

also.  Why are you assuming people are going to take away your cable?  Is it a microUSB2 cable?

[ARikozuM]

10 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Wireless charging is iffy at best. I have an XR and its much slower than a cable. Even then I would never buy a phone with just wirieless charging. Personally I rather have a cable. Plus you cant do full wireless with one cable if you want to be able to use Apple Car Play, which I use every day on my way home and to work. Thats the only way I can do GPS and listen to my itunes playlist with my cars infotainment system. The GPS portion BTW does not work thru blue tooth, so wirelss doesnt work for all. Either way they need a cable and the EU needs to pull its head out of its ass if it thinks that making a standard out of this is that important. 

There have been wireless Carplay systems since 2017. 

15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

its got two problems:

1: it’s power inefficient, by a lot

Driving a car with one individual is less efficient than public transit and rail. This is only an excuse to not have a second option when everything else is also wireless-capable. 

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

There have been wireless Carplay systems since 2017. 

Driving a car with one individual is less efficient than public transit and rail. This is only an excuse to not have a second option when everything else is also wireless-capable. 

CarPlay is data not charge. Sort of the opposite.

As far as inefficiencies go everything is relative. It could be comparatively minor.  I don’t have data.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

There have been wireless Carplay systems since 2017. 

Tell Nissan that. Most cars I have seen dont use the tech. So wireless is useless for most of the people if the car manufactures dont use the tech. My Nissan, My sisters and Brother in laws GM trucks both require a cable. And all the cars are relativly new. Mine being from 2018. 

 

13 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

ffy? How?

My phone goes from charging to not charging back to charging again. It does this a few times. Plus like I said its slow. The only reason I dont use my cable to charge it at home is because that cable is in my car so Apple Car Play works, I havent bought a new lightning cable yet. 

 

14 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Why are you assuming people are going to take away your cable?  Is it a microUSB2 cable?

Im saying its retarted for a goverment to waste fucking time on standardizing charging cables. The indsutry will do it for them! No im using an iPhone XR, you know from the company that tends not to follow the industry. But the lightning cable seems to be a hell of a lot better than MicroB, which is a shit cable. Lets see, whats more important........... Standarizing a charging cable OR making sure you have clean water, stable power generation or any other number of more pressing issues, such as this new bug that came out of nowhere? 

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Tell Nissan that. Most cars I have seen dont use the tech. So wireless is useless for most of the people if the car manufactures dont use the tech. My Nissan, My sisters and Brother in laws GM trucks both require a cable. And all the cars are relativly new. Mine being from 2018. 

This is exactly why regulation could be a good thing. Not for the Carplay, but for the charging. Companies will not move forward if they have no reason to. Who makes profits off of these devices? Manufacturers. Who spends for most of the recycling and trashing of these cables and items? Taxpayers. If they want to keep their own standards, they should pay for the recycling as well. 

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Im saying its retarted for a goverment to waste fucking time on standardizing charging cables. The indsutry will do it for them! No im using an iPhone XR, you know from the company that tends not to follow the industry. But the lightning cable seems to be a hell of a lot better than MicroB, which is a shit cable. Lets see, whats more important........... Standarizing a charging cable OR making sure you have clean water, stable power generation or any other number of more pressing issues, such as this new bug that came out of nowhere? 

Who said anything about choosing Micro-B?! It's pretty obvious that the industries are moving towards wireless charging and data along with USB-C (or USB specs at least) and a singular push could be all they need to get over the hump. 

[Donut417]

8 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Who said anything about choosing Micro-B?!

I was compareing Micro B to Lightning. Lighning its worlds better and sooooooooo many devices still use Micro B. 

 

9 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

This is exactly why regulation could be a good thing.

So you think its good that now consumers who have shit loads of MicroB cables and Lightning cables will have to throw them out? Because you know when there is no use for them they WILL end up in a landfill somewhere. 

[leadeater]

30 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 Wore one completely out.  Got an extra year and a half out of it I think because I did it that way.  It had microUSB3 which was even worse than microUSB2. My current is an iphone7 no built in wireless charging.  I put a mophie wireless sled on it I liked it so much.

None of the charging methods or speeds are actually high enough to degrade a battery more than another so choice of charging method makes no difference. Lithium-ion based batteries actually like more low depth of discharge cycles than larger ones so the most effective way to make a battery last longer is to charge it more often and simply use less power, mobile gaming kills batteries quickly. So there's only three things that actually make a difference to battery life; variance in manufacturing, avg Wh/day used and temperature. The last one only mattering if you go above 30^oC or below 0^oC.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

I was compareing Micro B to Lightning. Lighning its worlds better and sooooooooo many devices still use Micro B. 

But we aren't seeing more devices using Micro-B these days. Smartphones are moving to USB-C and even Apple might move to it thanks to Thunderbolt using USB-C plugs. If a push is all that's needed, let's do it. If the industry wants to change the standard, let them sit down like grown-ups and figure out a better solution for the next generation. 

 

I would LOVE for the connector in question to be Lightning because I prefer that the plug be solid. Unfortunately, it still comes down to if USB will be royalty free and whether every smartphone maker will comply. Hint: they've been moving towards USB-C. 

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

So you think its good that now consumers who have shit loads of MicroB cables and Lightning cables will have to throw them out? Because you know when there is no use for them they WILL end up in a landfill somewhere. 

Micro-B is still used in cameras, external HDDs (though most are the type B or Micro-B SS), and controllers (even these are moving to USB-C). There will be plenty of people who will gladly keep those older devices and cables. This regulation would very likely only affect the upcoming product lines by stating that after 202X those devices must use so and so cable standard for charging/data. 

[Bombastinator]

31 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Tell Nissan that. Most cars I have seen dont use the tech. So wireless is useless for most of the people if the car manufactures dont use the tech. My Nissan, My sisters and Brother in laws GM trucks both require a cable. And all the cars are relativly new. Mine being from 2018. 

 

My phone goes from charging to not charging back to charging again. It does this a few times. Plus like I said its slow. The only reason I dont use my cable to charge it at home is because that cable is in my car so Apple Car Play works, I havent bought a new lightning cable yet. 

 

Im saying its retarted for a goverment to waste fucking time on standardizing charging cables. The indsutry will do it for them! No im using an iPhone XR, you know from the company that tends not to follow the industry. But the lightning cable seems to be a hell of a lot better than MicroB, which is a shit cable. Lets see, whats more important........... Standarizing a charging cable OR making sure you have clean water, stable power generation or any other number of more pressing issues, such as this new bug that came out of nowhere? 

The retarded thing may be true.  MicroUSB2 doesn’t seem to be going away though.  It’s cheap. it seems to be the entrenched zit of cabling.  
 

It wasn’t what you were talking about though. Your argument though was more or less “government overreach!” and my reply was more or less “but you don’t even know what is being reached for”

Stupid behavior by government (which is a different topic) does not constitute “overreach”

[Bombastinator]

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

None of the charging methods or speeds are actually high enough to degrade a battery more than another so choice of charging method makes no difference. Lithium-ion based batteries actually like more low depth of discharge cycles than larger ones so the most effective way to make a battery last longer is to charge it more often and simply use less power, mobile gaming kills batteries quickly. So there's only three things that actually make a difference to battery life; variance in manufacturing, avg Wh/day used and temperature. The last one only mattering if you go above 30^oC or below 0^oC.

Wasn’t the battery that died it was the case and screen.  It was a note3.  Removable battery.  I think I went through 3 batteries.  Had a separate battery charger so I could swap if I found myself getting low and had to go somewhere.   Very few of em around these days because the port sucked so bad it broke in months. I went for the wireless charging case.  Dramatically increased the life of the device.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

overreach

It does when it can affect the entire world. Because now Apple and some device makers might charge more across the whole world for devices, because they had to change their cabling standard. These regualtions dont just effect the EU, because do you think Apple is going to make an EU iPhone that has a diffrent charging port? Probably not. This would be like if the US mandated all cars have gas doors on the drivers side. Its a bull shit regualtion that makes car makers across the world change their designs. 

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

It does when it can affect the entire world. Because now Apple and some device makers might charge more across the whole world for devices, because they had to change their cabling standard. These regualtions dont just effect the EU, because do you think Apple is going to make an EU iPhone that has a diffrent charging port? Probably not. This would be like if the US mandated all cars have gas doors on the drivers side. Its a bull shit regualtion that makes car makers across the world change their designs. 

Ah.  So you’re annoyed with the EU government for not caring about the rest of the world.  Like the US government does more or less constantly and has since the 19th century.

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

This would be like if the US mandated all cars have gas doors on the drivers side. Its a bull shit regualtion that makes car makers across the world change their designs. 

But all cars should have either gull wings or scissors.

lol this is legit a factory option.

 

Quote

“Typically cars with scissor doors are associated with wealthy, successful people. But now someone who just got laid off can afford scissor doors with the new Corolla, which is great,” said local Toyota dealership owner.

 

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Like the US government does more or less constantly and has since the 19th century.

Last I checked we give Aid to many countries and we provide Europe military protection from Russia. Id be more than happy if the US revolked all aid and pulled our troops out. When Russia starts marching thru the streets dont be calling us for help. We already helped Europe in 2 world wars and I think we dont need to be involved in the thrid. 

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

But all cars should have either gull wings or scissors.

lol this is legit a factory option.

Still better than a chromed Prius in Sarasota, FL. 

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

Still better than a chromed Prius in Sarasota, FL. 

_{It's actually not real but jokes before facts} 

 

Don't know about you but I have a strong urge to drive in to it....

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

drive

Does it have a Flux Capacitor? I bet that baby could get up to 88 MPH. 

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Does it have a Flux Capacitor? I bet that baby could get up to 88 MPH. 

And a whole 120 miles on a single charge! 

[Bombastinator]

12 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Last I checked we give Aid to many countries and we provide Europe military protection from Russia. Id be more than happy if the US revolked all aid and pulled our troops out. When Russia starts marching thru the streets dont be calling us for help. We already helped Europe in 2 world wars and I think we dont need to be involved in the thrid. 

The EU does that too.  A good bit more even.  The US was sort of famous for not paying its IN dues for a really long time.  
I remember this wonderful cartoon from the 19th century that pictured Teddy Roosevelt wading around the the South American oceans holding a gigantic club and towing a bunch of battleships behind him on a string.  The US didn’t invent gunboat diplomacy of course.  The British were more famous for it.  The opening of Japan comes to mind.  Passing a law advantageous to a nations residents over that of other areas is something of a government staple the world over.  It’s generally the only reason such laws are passed on the first place.  The perplexing one here for me is I’m not seeing the specific advantage gained.  There probably is one.

[Bombastinator]

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

_{It's actually not real but jokes before facts} 

 

Don't know about you but I have a strong urge to drive in to it....

Betting that’s a wrap rather than paint or actual metallic plating.  muuuch cheaper

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Betting that’s a wrap rather than paint or actual metallic plating.  muuuch cheaper

Could be worse, such as the bellend near me who has a collection of possibly the ugliest cars on the planet, the BMW X6, in chromed silver, gold and metallic blue.

 

[TechyBen]

14 hours ago, leadeater said:

None of the charging methods or speeds are actually high enough to degrade a battery more than another so choice of charging method makes no difference. Lithium-ion based batteries actually like more low depth of discharge cycles than larger ones so the most effective way to make a battery last longer is to charge it more often and simply use less power, mobile gaming kills batteries quickly. So there's only three things that actually make a difference to battery life; variance in manufacturing, avg Wh/day used and temperature. The last one only mattering if you go above 30^oC or below 0^oC.

IIRC the problem use to be with wireless charging that the inefficiencies translated into more heat, which meant more damage to the battery. I am not sure if the charging cycle/speed/tech lowers this now.

[leadeater]

55 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

IIRC the problem use to be with wireless charging that the inefficiencies translated into more heat, which meant more damage to the battery. I am not sure if the charging cycle/speed/tech lowers this now.

That's actually just a myth, someone bothered to test it and found no difference. Because a phone actually gets rather warm on a decent fast USB charge also, but neither really heat it up so much it effects the internal cell temperature to a point it impacts battery life, it's a rounding error compared to the main two things that really make the difference.

[DrMacintosh]

Here is something I bet nobody has talked about:

 

Say what you will about Lighting, but that port is designed to never lose grip and have extremely consistent grip because of the indentations on the plug and the spring loaded grips inside the port. Lots of USB-C ports have very inconsistent grips even if the port is completely clear of dust/debris and tend to loosen over time.

[Kisai]

On 1/23/2020 at 10:21 AM, Mira Yurizaki said:

Sure, but just because 8K TVs in the future will be affordable doesn't mean people will buy additional HDMI cables. Most of the market has shifted towards streaming services for their content. Plus the average person likely isn't going to demand that 8K be a thing and heck I don't even think the average person really cares about their content being in 4K. 1080p for most people is fine.

 

Either way, the point is that HDMI cables have nothing in them except for build quality that ties them down to a specific version. You don't necessarily have to buy a new set of cables because your devices are a new version and you bought the cables you currently have for the old version.

 

On further inspection, the USB-PD specification has an extension that allows USB-A connectors to be compatible with USB-PD, making the need for having two different types of cables a moot point.

 

Besides that I don't see a need to get rid of USB-A. It's a serviceable connector and is simpler, so it likely uses less resources overall to make.

Which would be a logistical headache that may end up costing more time and energy than we're trying to save.

 

Besides that, I tend to keep the cable with the device for the life of the device. So when I want sell the device (if I don't outright toss it), I throw in the cable it came with with it. And from what I gather, people tend to burn through cables faster than they do devices.

*trying to locate where the thread went off topic.

 

Yeah, most USB and HDMI cables just aren't marked with what version they are, and that's why devices keep coming with them. At the office I have:

1 bin of DVI cables

1 bin of VGA cables (I actually disposed of one bin last year, and I'm still finding devices connected with VGA that should be DP)

1 bin of DVI to DP and DVI to VGA adapters

1 bin of nothing but USB cables that should have been attached to the monitors but for whatever reason, never used.

2 bins of nema 5-15p to c13 (standard power cable for north america)

 

And the problems:

DVI: Which are dual link?

VGA: New monitors don't come with VGA and no device in the last 5 years has come with a VGA output

DP adapters: Some are passive, some are active, and some screens flicker or experience malfunctions when used.

USB: Black, White, Blue. I know the Blue ones are USB 3, but none of them are labeled. They're all Type A to Type B. Occasionally I find a micro-b cable in there.

Power: Some of these go back to the 90's, they range from 15A cables (thick) to 5A cables (thin, for monitors and laptop bricks (usually short too))

 

We tossed the one bin of VGA cables primarily because we still had another bin of them and more come back than go out. The WD15 docks have one HDMI, one mini-DP and one VGA, so in some cases the VGA cables were left in place, but I replace the VGA's with the mini-DP and HDMI. The WD19 has dual DP only, which makes them usable with the DP cables that came inside the box with the monitors. 

 

But the monitors wouldn't need to come with any cables in theory. I have them all. Even with laptops, there's no reason to keep shipping power bricks with them (which add $100 to their cost) if the user may have one already, but they are shipped because that's the correct and appropriate brick. So if we move to USB-C, any laptop that requires less than 100w will be powered by USB-C PD only. Some of the XPS and Latitude's are already shipped this way. That's just following in Apple's footsteps like with the Macbook Air.

 

So the market is already going in that direction, and the only reason Apple is making a fuss is because that's someone's job.

 

Quote

"We believe regulation that forces conformity across the type of connector built into all smartphones stifles innovation rather than encouraging it, and would harm consumers in Europe and the economy as a whole,"

They clearly see it's targeted at them since the iPhone is the most popular* smartphone. 

 

*most profitable