The end of lightning is nigh, possibly.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

You are the one saying the source end is the problem... you took it off topic, why blame me? XD

Others have said it too, it was even mentioned on the WAN show. I am not blaming anyone so please don't think I am putting that on you. The topic has become a mess so I amongst others are getting lost hence dropping out.  Oh, and I have absolutely no idea what XD means at the end of your post.

[TechyBen]

3 hours ago, Phill104 said:

Others have said it too, it was even mentioned on the WAN show. I am not blaming anyone so please don't think I am putting that on you. The topic has become a mess so I amongst others are getting lost hence dropping out.  Oh, and I have absolutely no idea what XD means at the end of your post.

Sorry. Yeah. I don't get how people think this will stop innovation.  (My XD is a smiley, but this forum skips that one.  )

Standards in petrol have not stopped biodiesel or electric cars. A standard in charging, could change, it just needs to be thought through.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, TechyBen said:

 

Standards in petrol have not stopped biodiesel or electric cars. A standard in charging, could change, it just needs to be thought through.

Because cars aren't mandated to run only on petrol.  If they were it would have had an affect.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

Because cars aren't mandated to run only on petrol.  If they were it would have had an affect.

Or mandated to use only 95 octane. I already cannot buy something like VP Q16 or X85L fuel because it's leaded and leaded fuel is not allowed here (sure for good reason but it's a fuel I cannot buy). Don't get me wrong I don't want to buy such a fuel but anyone who does cannot, it only exist because it is allowed to be sold in other countries.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Or mandated to use only 95 octane. I already cannot buy something like VP Q16 or X85L fuel because it's leaded and leaded fuel is not allowed here (sure for good reason but it's a fuel I cannot buy). Don't get me wrong I don't want to buy such a fuel but anyone who does cannot, it only exist because it is allowed to be sold in other countries.

They buy little cans of octane booster instead.  There’s a brand called “104+” that is quite popular with local “back to the 50’s” hot rodders

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

They buy little cans of octane booster instead.  There’s a brand called “104+” that is quite popular with local “back to the 50’s” hot rodders

We have other non-leaded fuels for that purpose, octane booster isn't much of a thing here. Considering our standard pump is RON 91, 95 and 98 which in US/CAN is 87, 90 and 94. We can buy any VP racing fuel that isn't leaded, most of the common options are offered at the pump near race tracks or at the track anyway.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

We have other non-leaded fuels for that purpose, octane booster isn't much of a thing here. Considering our standard pump is RON 91, 95 and 98 which in US/CAN is 87, 90 and 94. We can buy any VP racing fuel that isn't leaded, most of the common options are offered at the pump near race tracks or at the track anyway.

Possibly a better option.  Might be engine specific.  The back to the 50’s people don’t run racing engines so much as they run old engines.  There are a lot of Studebakers and  Nashes for example.

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Possibly a better option. Might be engine specific.  The back to the 50’s people don’t run racing engines so much as they run old engines.  There are a lot of Studebakers and  Nashes for example.

To be more specific we cannot drive on the road while using leaded, you can have leaded but only on a race track. At least for a track day car with a high tune you don't really need much more than pump 98, HP100 or MS109. Big block supercharged methanol are really popular here anyway too, so we mostly have ricers with bad turbo setups or crazy monster cars made purely to burn through tyres, I don't really get spending that much for that purpose over like actually drag racing it but w/e they sound awesome.

[Blademaster91]

IIRC octane numbers in the US are measured differently,  but unless you have a high performance engine or added a tune and modifications, the 87 rated octane is usually fine on most modern engines.

[ARikozuM]

24 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

IIRC octane numbers in the US are measured differently,  but unless you have a high performance engine or added a tune and modifications, the 87 rated octane is usually fine on most modern engines.

Yep. We use R+M/2.

[Bombastinator]

48 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

IIRC octane numbers in the US are measured differently,  but unless you have a high performance engine or added a tune and modifications, the 87 rated octane is usually fine on most modern engines.

Depends.  I’ve got a 2008 GTI an I was told very specifically to only use premium.  I thought it was bs, but it turned out I can hear the difference.  There is lifter noise if I don’t use at least 89.  It will work on 87.  It doesn’t particularly like it though

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

IIRC octane numbers in the US are measured differently,  but unless you have a high performance engine or added a tune and modifications, the 87 rated octane is usually fine on most modern engines.

Lots of euro cars and jap cars require RON 95/AKI 90, mine does and it kinda sucks from a cost perspective. I spend around $100NZD/week (66USD) on fuel.

 

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Depends.  I’ve got a 2008 GTI an I was told very specifically to only use premium.  I thought it was bs, but it turned out I can hear the difference.  There is lifter noise if I don’t use at least 89.  It will work on 87.  It doesn’t particularly like it though

You only ever need to use octane required for compression ratio of the car, more does nothing. It's a bad idea to be lower than required, you'll damage the engine with the high raise in cylinder pressure from the igniting outside the correct timing of the stroke.

[TechyBen]

21 hours ago, mr moose said:

Because cars aren't mandated to run only on petrol.  If they were it would have had an affect.

I watch Mighty Car Mods. In Australia... they are (One type of Petrol/Diesel. It's *standardised*).

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

I watch Mighty Car Mods. In Australia... they are (One type of Petrol/Diesel. It's *standardised*).

However, there are also electric cars, hydrogen, gas powered etc. While the standard of two particular fossil fuels are mandated, it does not stop other types of fuel and drive being used.

[Donut417]

Just now, Phill104 said:

However, there are also electric cars, hydrogen, gas powered etc. While the standard of two particular fossil fuels are mandated, it does not stop other types of fuel and drive being used.

Yeah but fact. Natural Gas cars for instance, dont have a good place to fuel up. Here in the Metro Detroit area I only know of one station I have seen. Electric cars are mostly fueled up at home, Yeah there are some fueling stations but I think a vast amount of people are fueling up at home. Hydrogen is a really new tech and I dont think there are any production cars that use Hydrogen, at least I havent seen any in the US, as they have to prove the tech is safe. 

 

Fact is Gasoline and Diesel have proven themsevles. Electric is getting there. Hydrogen is still in the works. Natural gas while a alternative is not that big and Id assume that if a gas station offers natural gas, then there has to be some kind of standard for refueling. Also for electric cars, while there are a few standards, adatpers exist to convert between standards. The real big issue is for fast charging and thats the capability you might loose if using adapters. 

 

But you have to think automobiles are HEAVILY regualted. It takes a while before new standards come out. Most standards come out due to public outcry and or government regulations. Such as emssion standards, or requiring seatbelts and such. From my understanding most new cars have to have a TPM sensor due to government regulations in the US, to help with people driving on under inflated tires. The other thing you have to consider is the power of the oil industry. Up til recently at least the US auto makers were in bed with them bastards. I mean it was GM and the Oil companies who killed the EV1, which was the electric car GM created because California had a law on the books requiring them to do it. If it wasnt for the efforts of GM and the Oil companies going to the US government to have that law thrown out, Electric cars might have caught on sooner, thus more of a standard existing than does now. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Yeah but fact. Natural Gas cars for instance, dont have a good place to fuel up. Here in the Metro Detroit area I only know of one station I have seen. Electric cars are mostly fueled up at home, Yeah there are some fueling stations but I think a vast amount of people are fueling up at home. Hydrogen is a really new tech and I dont think there are any production cars that use Hydrogen, at least I havent seen any in the US, as they have to prove the tech is safe. 

 

Fact is Gasoline and Diesel have proven themsevles. Electric is getting there. Hydrogen is still in the works. Natural gas while a alternative is not that big and Id assume that if a gas station offers natural gas, then there has to be some kind of standard for refueling. Also for electric cars, while there are a few standards, adatpers exist to convert between standards. The real big issue is for fast charging and thats the capability you might loose if using adapters. 

 

But you have to think automobiles are HEAVILY regualted. It takes a while before new standards come out. Most standards come out due to public outcry and or government regulations. Such as emssion standards, or requiring seatbelts and such. From my understanding most new cars have to have a TPM sensor due to government regulations in the US, to help with people driving on under inflated tires. The other thing you have to consider is the power of the oil industry. Up til recently at least the US auto makers were in bed with them bastards. I mean it was GM and the Oil companies who killed the EV1, which was the electric car GM created because California had a law on the books requiring them to do it. If it wasnt for the efforts of GM and the Oil companies going to the US government to have that law thrown out, Electric cars might have caught on sooner, thus more of a standard existing than does now. 

Here there are natural gas pumps and many petrol stations, the same through a lot of Europe. We now have 16 hydrogen stations here. 
 

Still a very different prospect regulating cars to what connector we have on our phones. Cars have to be regulated to some extent as they are very dangerous machines. The choice between USB-C and Lightning seems trivial compared to the damage unregulated vehicles could do.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

trivial compared to the damage unregulated vehicles could do.

Which is why I said the EU is over stepping. Why worry about the connector on the iPhone when you can worry about other things that are more important. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Which is why I said the EU is over stepping. Why worry about the connector on the iPhone when you can worry about other things that are more important. 

I totally agree.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Which is why I said the EU is over stepping. Why worry about the connector on the iPhone when you can worry about other things that are more important. 

How can you know they’re overstepping?  We don’t even know what they want to regulate exactly.  It might not affect any new Apple devices at all.   It’s some sort of power for portable devices thing.  That’s all we know. That’s it.  There’s all these assumptions and stuff and the facts are actually very vague.  It could very well be “everything that uses microUSB2 for power only has to use wireless” or usbC form factor (because it’s barely even a standard). It could be “everything has to have wireless power available if it’s a stand alone device” Wouldn’t affect any phone made in the last few years.  doesn’t even really affect MicroUSB2 power connections for a lot of stuff.  Just the stuff that also has batteries.  
 

cheap ass power banks and wireless game controllers would have to have wireless power added (many already have them) 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

I watch Mighty Car Mods. In Australia... they are (One type of Petrol/Diesel. It's *standardised*).

Maybe we should restructure the problem so those who keep missing the issue understand.  The discussion does not centre around the mandating of standards of energy conditions, but around enforcing one specific device over all others for an unknown length of time (most presumably a long time).     How well or poorly petrol is mandated means absolutely nothing as other fuel types are still legal, in this discussion that equivalent would be the the same as mandating the USB voltage specs.  Not the type of connector you should use.

 

Now before you say we have a standard for the fuel nozzle you should remember that there are only so many ways to control liquid flow and we have pretty much settled on the best designs.  Most importantly fuel nozzles are not mandated. Anyone can build a better one and implement it if they want.  Juxtaposition that to small device connectors and you'll see we are still searching for the best design, the most efficient and robust. mandating one that everyone must use from now one short circuits that process.

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

We don’t even know what they want to regulate exactly.

Well the quote from the aritlce says CHARGING STANDARDS. So yes it will affect the iPhone as most other recent Android devices have moved to Type C. They want an unified charging stanard. Sorry to tell you this, but its not their place to regualte the entire world. This could force Apple to redesign their devices, as we have no clue if they plan on moving to type C the next generation or after or ever. To me regualtions are about safty. You regualte a business so they dont dumb toxic waste in to the fucking river or you regulate car companies to come up with better emssion standards. Why in the blue hell would you regulate what charging standard devices use when there are more imporant things to think about? 

 

Apple and other companies will move to new charging standards when they are good and ready! The EU is trying to become like the US. We are not good role models on what to become. 

[thechinchinsong]

20 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Apple and other companies will move to new charging standards when they are good and ready! The EU is trying to become like the US. We are not good role models on what to become. 

I thought it was the other way around? The EU has too many regulations compared to the US. People still think the US has too many regulations and that's why there are those that cheered when the EPA got gutted and laws for environmental protections are ignored/repealed.

[Donut417]

Just now, thechinchinsong said:

that's why there are those that cheered when the EPA got gutted and laws for environmental protections are ignored/repealed.

Those are the ass holes who dont have to drink Lead contaminiated water. Or those who have chemcicals in their water that make it so you can catch the water on fire. Basically we have a lot of dumb people in the US, due to our collapsing educational system (Due to poor regulations). 

 

Also the EU is trying to tell the rest of the world how its going to be. We do that a lot here in the US, and the rest of the world hates us for it. The only diffrence is the EU doesnt spend  over 700 billion on defense and have military bases spread across the world and over 6K in nuclear weapons to back things up. 

[Bombastinator]

52 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Well the quote from the aritlce says CHARGING STANDARDS. So yes it will affect the iPhone as most other recent Android devices have moved to Type C. They want an unified charging stanard. Sorry to tell you this, but its not their place to regualte the entire world. This could force Apple to redesign their devices, as we have no clue if they plan on moving to type C the next generation or after or ever. To me regualtions are about safty. You regualte a business so they dont dumb toxic waste in to the fucking river or you regulate car companies to come up with better emssion standards. Why in the blue hell would you regulate what charging standard devices use when there are more imporant things to think about? 

 

Apple and other companies will move to new charging standards when they are good and ready! The EU is trying to become like the US. We are not good role models on what to become. 

Have they though?  Or have they moved to wireless?  USBC is charging AND data.  All iPhones right now are AND wireless.  I don’t know about android stuff, but the impression I’m getting is most of it is AND wireless too.

 

wireless is cheap to add.  Wireless is flat so it takes up little space.  Wireless is effectively unpatentable because it was invented by tesla. It isn’t even a standard so much as a set of laws of physics.  Wireless is really handy for public places because there are no ports to be spoofed or broken or messed with.  The whole thing can be put under a sheet of laminate.

 

its got two problems:

1: it’s power inefficient, by a lot

2: it’s a pita because you can’t really use the device while it’s charging.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Have they though?  Or have they moved to wireless?  USBC is charging AND data.  All iPhones right now are AND wireless.  I don’t know about android stuff, but the impression I’m getting is most of it is AND wireless too.

Wireless charging is iffy at best. I have an XR and its much slower than a cable. Even then I would never buy a phone with just wirieless charging. Personally I rather have a cable. Plus you cant do full wireless with one cable if you want to be able to use Apple Car Play, which I use every day on my way home and to work. Thats the only way I can do GPS and listen to my itunes playlist with my cars infotainment system. The GPS portion BTW does not work thru blue tooth, so wirelss doesnt work for all. Either way they need a cable and the EU needs to pull its head out of its ass if it thinks that making a standard out of this is that important.