? Tesla Truck Kinda Edgy Tho - Tesla releases oddly polygonal pickup truck

[Drak3]

Just now, Atmos said:

You tried lifting a 50lb weight up, over shoulder height and then lowering it down with a barrier at shoulder height?

Yes, my dad's 3500 is shoulder height. My 2500 is slightly below that.

 

2 minutes ago, Atmos said:

Honestly if those absurd side walls/supports were gone my issues with the truck

It would also reduce bed capacity. 

 

 

And there's a huge spec that we're ignoring here: adaptive air suspension. It can raise and lower the back half be design. RAM and Toyota offer this in some form on their trucks as well. The truck can be lowered for loading/unloading.

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Atmos said:

Man, shoulder height is too damn high for most people to be able to lift things in to and out of their bed.

Also most trucks, the rapter, trd pro, and w/e chevy is literally sliding from their rears these days excluded, are tall, but not so high that a normal person cant lift something heavy up into it over the bed or access a mounted toolbox in the case where one is present.

 

You tried lifting a 50lb weight up, over shoulder height and then lowering it down with a barrier at shoulder height? That stuff isnt easy. Its just needlessly more difficult than it should be. Honestly if those absurd side walls/supports were gone my issues with the truck and may other's issues with its functionality as a truck would be insanely less relevant.

so cut a hole.  It’s stainless.  There’s no paint and it doesn’t rust

but they not only make access harder, but actively prevent 5th wheel options.

how?  So do toppers.  I see a lot more toppers than 5th wheels.

The 5th wheel sits on the axle and the arm goes out the back.  It does lower turning radius of a 5th wheel.

Doesnt prevent it though.  Make the arm taller.  It’s gonna be custom for each vehicle design anyway.

Also just looked into the towing. 7.5k on base model, 14k on 3 motor awd. The 14k is a solid metric, like I said on par with entry level diesel but for a LOT more (around 30k more). but that 7.5k man... thats pretty significantly under most half ton trucks. Its only more than the v6s and 4cyls out there, pretty much every v8 half ton has a tow between 8-11.5k, and they do it for 8-18k less...

So for people towing huge boats

or concrete or something like that they gotta spend more money.  No one else will care

I do 100% agree about them having issues in their production and staff. Far, far too many insiders from tesla have come forward to talk about it.

sounds conspiracy theory like.  More possible than many conspiracy theories I’ve seen gain traction though

I also 100% agree that the drive train in their cars are absolutely fantastic. The p85d my uncle owns is just beyond nuts fast from a stop. Only thing I can remotely compare it to that I've experienced was the short while that I owned a 999r my first semesters of college, before i realized that some things can be just way too much for the road and daily driving/riding. Like, literally, if this wagon was in a traditional truck body I would honestly be all the fuck over it. I'd sell daily, my bike, and take out a hefty loan to get one. I'd still keep my f150 for road trips, but other than that I would just daily the fuck out of an electric truck from tesla... but not that one compromises on so much that a truck offers, and definitely not one that looks like lotus esprit rendered by a sega genesis on pcp.

so you’d keep your truck that has all these things so you’d have this special case scenario stuff on it anyway.  You got a topper or a 5th wheel on that f150?  All I’m seeing in this post is “it looks different and that scares me” with a bunch of extra excuses added.

 

[Atmos]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Yes, my dad's 3500 is shoulder height. My 2500 is slightly below that.

 

It would also reduce bed capacity. 

 

 

And there's a huge spec that we're ignoring here: adaptive air suspension. It can raise and lower the back half be design. RAM and Toyota offer this in some form on their trucks as well. The truck can be lowered for loading/unloading.

Hey man, you buy a lifted truck from factory thats on you lol. Pretty much every half ton unless raised isnt gonna go over shoulder height. Especially the smaller trucks nowadays gaining popularity in the cities.

 

It would only reduce bed capacity because they chose to not run a body on frame design like pretty much every other truck being made. Sure it can help with handling, and improves crash safety, but you're going to lose strength without braces, and in this case the braces are just a big ass hassle, and active hindrance.

 

The air suspension is nice. I seriously doubt it will be in the 39k model though... those systems are seriously not cheap, and maintenance on them as they age is a major pain in the ass usually, and at the price it will likely come in at some competitors have it too its not exactly an entirely unique feature, like rams have had the option since 2017.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/cybertruck

 

Depends on your region maybe? There's a giant order button in the right right corner.

Found it.  I am on a phone.  The link worked though

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Atmos said:

The air suspension is nice. I seriously doubt it will be in the 39k model though... those systems are seriously not cheap

Jalopnik only lists air suspension, and given the clout Tesla strives for, I doubt they'd settle for spring setups on other trucks.

 

4 minutes ago, Atmos said:

Hey man, you buy a lifted truck from factory thats on you lol. Pretty much every half ton unless raised isnt gonna go over shoulder height. Especially the smaller trucks nowadays gaining popularity in the cities.

Many half tons roll off the lot with factory lifts, and that's how most cars are sold, as they roll off the lot.

 

7 minutes ago, Atmos said:

t would only reduce bed capacity because they chose to not run a body on frame design like pretty much every other truck being made.

Body on frame only makes a difference if you make trucks with longer frames to have longer cabs and beds. That's something only Ford and Toyota do, and they're not selling as many long bed half tons as they are short bed half tons (and in Ford's case, long bed 3/4 tons+)

[Atmos]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 

Cant cut a hole in it, its a structural support.

Toppers can be taken off in an afternoon, they're not permanent.

Braces interfere with 5th height clearance.

Not a conspiracy. Well documented and known. Check teslas official forums even. "

"The most surprising thing is now knowing that I would never want a Tesla vehicle," a former production employee who left the company last year said.

The former employee said that if he made a mistake while helping assemble a vehicle, he would not want to tell anyone in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

"Just seeing how we built the cars ... I would never buy one of those cars, ever," he added."

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-employees-reveal-most-shocking-parts-of-working-there-2019-8#how-the-cars-were-produced-7

 

Yes. I would keep my truck that can haul everything I have, including my 8500lb trailer on trips across country like I do twice a year, while using a more conventional and cheaper to run daily truck for the stuff in and around the county for the rest of the year. And no, I dont run a shell on my f150, I regularly haul stuff in the bed ranging from firewood to appliances, to w/e needs to be hauled. Its a work truck and a vacation hauler. Not a daily or driveway princess.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Atmos said:

Toppers can be taken off in an afternoon, they're not permanent.

Again, not practical, so most people that have them treat them like they're permanent.

2 minutes ago, Atmos said:

Cant cut a hole in it, its a structural support.

Actually, you can if you reinforce it, assuming that it really is a structural design and not an aesthetic one.

[RedRound2]

2 hours ago, Atmos said:

last last thing i say.

Drag CE doesnt take into account size of the object. while the design for the tesla semi truck is better aerodynamically than the chiron, its overall drag is significantly higher because of its size. Its a pretty misleading tactic.

also, that semi is like, insanely rounded and bubbly. not a single straight line or flat edge on the leading face at all.

What do you mean it doesn't take the size of the object? It has A (for Surface Area) in the formulae, inversely proportional to Drag coefficient.

 

Also, I never said the Semi was a boxy shape. Just stating the aerodynamics is more complicated than it looks because something as boxy as a box fish or something as big as a semi can have better drag coefficient that what us human beings would intuitively think 

[Atmos]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Jalopnik only lists air suspension, and given the clout Tesla strives for, I doubt they'd settle for spring setups on other trucks.

 

Many half tons roll off the lot with factory lifts, and that's how most cars are sold, as they roll off the lot.

 

Body on frame only makes a difference if you make trucks with longer frames to have longer cabs and beds. That's something only Ford and Toyota do, and they're not selling as many long bed half tons as they are short bed half tons (and in Ford's case, long bed 3/4 tons+)

Can't disagree with you on those.

And tesla would never admit to just using regular spring poor man suspension. They'd probably call it something like a "twin-tube multi-link shock-absorber with stabilization bar" like they already do, and like very auto company does. I mean the description isnt wrong, but if you know what those words mean, its just a regular gas piston with spring.

 

Just now, Drak3 said:

Again, not practical, so most people that have them treat them like they're permanent.

Actually, you can if you reinforce it, assuming that it really is a structural design and not an aesthetic one.

Once again, can't disagree with you, but it doesnt mean that a shell is permanent. It still can be taken off if needed.

And c'mon man... no ones pulling out the grinder and going to town on that support, especially since that rear window bullshit is integrated into it. Sure you CAN, just like you can turn any car into a convertible, but it doesnt mean its practical or anyone will actually do it past a joke.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Atmos said:

And c'mon man... no ones pulling out the grinder and going to town on that support

Whilst most people won't, many a custom fabricator won't hesitate to cut out half the bed.

 

But that's also assuming that this thing actually proves to be a reliable vehicle that actually manages to do what they claim. Otherwise, they're just going to keep upfitting whatever Cummins and Powerstrokes they get their hands on.

[Bombastinator]

Wild html quoting problems but others made the point better. I’m not going to bother to rewrite.

[Atmos]

2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

What do you mean it doesn't take the size of the object? It has A (for Surface Area) in the formulae, inversely proportional to Drag coefficient.

 

Also, I never said the Semi was a boxy shape. Just stating the aerodynamics is more complicated than it looks because something as boxy as a box fish or something as big as a semi can have better drag coefficient that what us human beings would intuitively think 

Drag coefficient and total drag are two separate things. Think of it like this.

A 1cm cube and a 1m cube have the same drag coefficient because they are the same shape, and as long as they are oriented in the same fashion. But the larger cube has higher drag because of the increased surface area facing the direction of air.

The semi if it were the same size as the chiron would have less drag, but because it has 4-5x the surface area opposing air flow, it has a higher total drag, even though its drag CE is lower.

 

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 

Now you're just being silly.

I didn't say I need a 5th wheel, so while thats not a deal breaker for me, it is for many people. you know... like my original post says... In my op I said most truck buyers are looking for those options. Each of those not being present represents a portion of buyers being turned away. 

Also, thats just one of many examples of people coming forward after seeing how teslas are put together. Its a literal fact, and it can be seen in the relative build quality and QC they (dont) do on finished cars. 

Also, the amount of shells I've seen just sitting out on driveways is nuts man. Most people who take them off only have them off for a weekend or so so they can do work, and in that case theres no hard just setting it down on a driveway or side-yard, assuming you dont have the misfortune of living with an HOA. And man... c'mon... they're not permanent. Just because they're fragile, and they're really not most of the time, doesnt mean you can't take them off with a helping hand bribed with some good beer. a hell of a lot easier than structurally redesigning the braces on your lsdwagon.

[atxcyclist]

8 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Well, it was never about marketing the truck as an electric truck is what Tesla had in mind. It was to show that electric trucks are better and hence should be considered because there still is a significant amount of people who think electric cars are like golf cars

 

Charging batteries are getting faster and faster with time. We can already get a significant amount of miles with a 20 minute supercharger top up. Also electricity can be obtained from a variety of sources like solar and wind, so if you're living in the middle of a desert, going electric would be better for long run than depending of gas pumps (the infrastructure is already there, hence might not be a problem, but in a case of natural disaster or some issues, you might not get fuel)

 

Vehicle Servicing? It's pretty much a battery and motor with an exoskeleton. There's nothing much to service about it frequently. Nothing to do with engines, oils, gears, etc.

 

Ranchers don't have 250 kW service out in the middle of the country, that was my entire point about charging. A normal 1 ton you just pour a fuel can in and you've ready to go. They're tethered to a power grid, so in a way they are like golf carts.

 

There are still plenty of things to service on an electric vehicle. The battery has a cooling system, they still have regular brakes, and there's still oil in the drive unit. Tesla has a very limited dealer network as well, and they're doing everything they can to keep third-party shops from being able to service Tesla vehicles. That wouldn't fly with people out in the country, they don't have time to spend a whole day getting to a big city for service.

 

They're not better as trucks for people that actually need full-size trucks.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

A normal 1 ton you just pour a fuel can in and you've ready to go.

You can also easily double or triple the effective range by throwing some fuel tanks in the bed.

[atxcyclist]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

You can also easily double or triple the effective range by throwing some fuel tanks in the bed.

Yep. 

 

I understand many people have stars in their eyes about electric vehicle tech, but it's just not practical for everyone. 

[Bombastinator]

Just now, atxcyclist said:

Yep. 

 

I understand many people have stars in their eyes about electric vehicle tech, but it's just not practical for everyone. 

It will not completely kill fossil fuel vehicles.  There will always be 10% of people who genuinely need the range. 90% wont though.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It will not completely kill fossil fuel vehicles.  There will always be 10% of people who genuinely need the range. 90% wont though.

And when/if charge times get faster range will become less of a problem.

 

if a car can go 300K on a charge and there are charge stations every on average every 25K,  then range isn't an issue, only time to stop and charge.

 

 

 

 

[atxcyclist]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It will not completely kill fossil fuel vehicles.  There will always be 10% of people who genuinely need the range. 90% wont though.

I don't really need the range most of the time, but there are times I need to get in my car without prior notice and go 400+ miles. I'm not really interested in electric vehicles anyway, they're just not exciting to me at all.

[amdorintel]

Lots of people dont need lots of range, most people only drive 20 miles to work. But range anxiety is a real issue whether its rational and logical or not because having the freedom to drive anywhere is what gas gives you that freedom. Joe Rogan has the sporty model and he says he loves it more then any of his gasoline high end sports cars, because it gives him that instant torque from zero rpm, so it gives you that 'slap back into the seat' feel, the power is just amazing in the electrics, just outright amazing, something a gasser doesnt give you. The price for electrics is coming down that is true, but the ability to repair is not there yet. Also battery longevity and reliability are crucial along with charging time. After years go by the jump in technology increases even more so it will be wonderful to see where battery technology leads. I watched a few Rich Tesla episodes and the winter aspect of battery is still an issue because it takes so much energy to heat up the pack.

[circeseye]

well they already have about 150k orders. and its not being released till end of next year

[Taf the Ghost]

5 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Yep. 

 

I understand many people have stars in their eyes about electric vehicle tech, but it's just not practical for everyone. 

Pure EVs are for Urban Middle Class drivers. You need a garage and relatively low range "common utility" out of your car. Proper Hybrids with electric drive, enough battery for city travel and the ability to internally generate range via a small IC generator would suit the majority of drivers. It's pretty much simply the reason why diesel-powered cars & trucks exist. There are Broad Use Cases and Specific Use Cases, Pure EV is a long ways from being a trusted tech, and it's always extremely dependent on continuous energy generation.

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, circeseye said:

well they already have about 150k orders. and its not being released till end of next year

While true, we need to keep in mind the deposit is $100 and it's refundable.

 

Definitely I would guess at least a portion of preorders are just for shits and giggles and those people don't intend on actually buying one.

 

How big a portion is yet to be determined.

[Taf the Ghost]

5 hours ago, amdorintel said:

Lots of people dont need lots of range, most people only drive 20 miles to work. But range anxiety is a real issue whether its rational and logical or not because having the freedom to drive anywhere is what gas gives you that freedom. Joe Rogan has the sporty model and he says he loves it more then any of his gasoline high end sports cars, because it gives him that instant torque from zero rpm, so it gives you that 'slap back into the seat' feel, the power is just amazing in the electrics, just outright amazing, something a gasser doesnt give you. The price for electrics is coming down that is true, but the ability to repair is not there yet. Also battery longevity and reliability are crucial along with charging time. After years go by the jump in technology increases even more so it will be wonderful to see where battery technology leads. I watched a few Rich Tesla episodes and the winter aspect of battery is still an issue because it takes so much energy to heat up the pack.

"Range Anxiety" has always been a complete BS strawman. People buy cars for Expected Utility. If a vehicle does not have a capacity you need, you have to buy what is generally the 2nd most expensive item you own again. This is basically the reason for a world of 2+2 sports cars. The "you can barely fit, but you can fit" utility radically expands the outer utility of a vehicle. It's only the absolutely most recent Tesla models (along with the slow build out of the charging network) that can reasonably travel as a gasoline powered car can since about 1950. And they've been using the "range anxiety" BS for 15 years. It was *always* a strawman.

 

On the more practical issues, EVs are generally a bad idea in cold climates and, under a lithium-based tech always will be, while the battery packs and motors make the car more like an old cellphone rather than an aging car. Those battery packs also make the cost structures of EVs quite a lot higher and it doesn't look like scale will change that, which eliminates the lower third or more of the car industry from going EV. And probably always with Fleet vehicles. 

[amdorintel]

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Those battery packs also make the cost structures of EVs quite a lot highe

yeah thats why it wont last, until a batteries can last much longer

but by that time something new will come along.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, amdorintel said:

yeah thats why it wont last, until a batteries can last much longer

but by that time something new will come along.

Longer than 350k miles of driving?  There are tesla Ses that have that on their odometers and haven’t even lost any range ability yet.  I’ve seen estimates for battery packs of 500,000 miles.  It’s cars like the Leaf that seem to have problems.  Part of it is temperature.  The batteries need temperature control.  They can’t be too hot or too cold.  Some electric cars have primitive battery control technology as well.  Combine no battery temperature control and primitive battery control and you get a short lifetime. Temperature control and good battery management software and you get an unbelievably long lifetime.