Apple Blows All Competition With Update to 4S

[vanished]

17 minutes ago, Sauron said:

You're assuming the punch cards were written in binary, which was not always the case. ASCII didn't even exist when these date encoding conventions were established.

Hm, that's the best (well, only) explanation I've heard yet.  Interesting...

 

Although for this to be the reason, it also requires people either a) using very old equipment long past when better things existed, or b) the standard being so entrenched that it was impractical to make another for some reason.  I say this because I know the very early machines operated entirely on cards like this, taking input and producing output, mainly through paper and not really any other means, but I also know that later (in the 80s), there were machines that still read data in using punchcards, but this would then be accessible (editable) digitally using terminals, not really different from what we can do today (ie, directly manipulate the stored binary and use it how we please).

[DrMacintosh]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

I am talking about hardware that is designed to last and not ballsed up designs with undersized batteries or irreplaceable parts.  I think it is fairly obvious what I was talking about.

And what specifically about the 4-5 make them more repairable than their successors? And on what universe did the 4-5 get good battery life? We’re you around then? They were terrible! 
 

Please stop talking about hardware you aren’t familiar with. 

[Sauron]

32 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Although for this to be the reason, it also requires people either a) using very old equipment long past when better things existed, or b) the standard being so entrenched that it was impractical to make another for some reason.

Both, but mostly a. In the end Y2K wasn't that big of a deal since most computer users had moved on by that point but some particularly long lived installations still used the old standard, e.g. message boards.

 

[Zando_]

40 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The worst part is apple wouldn't have had to replace batteries on the 6 if they designed it right from the beginning. Which is clearly the issue.  So pointing out that they did have a battery program is providing evidence for their shitty designs since after the 4/5.

What? That's not a faulty design, that's how batteries work. The battery in my Galaxy S6 was shit (it was a good few years old), the battery in my mid-2012 MacBook Pro needs to be serviced according to macOS (it's still at 75% capacity and I use it mostly plugged in tho so it's fine), any device with these kinds of batteries needs them replaced every 400-600 cycles or so AFAIK. 

It wasn't any design fault on Apple's part in this specific case, it was how Apple decided to deal with it (throttling). And throttling was the right choice, juuuuuust they should have told people they were doing that. They didn't, so that's where the controversy came from. 

 

6 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

And what specifically about the 4-5 make them more repairable than their successors? And on what universe did the 4-5 get good battery life? We’re you around then? They were terrible! 
 

Please stop talking about hardware you aren’t familiar with. 

It's easier to replace the battery in a 4/4S due to the fact that the back glass comes off with just 2 screws and there's no wires in the way. But because of that it's much, much more difficult to replace the screen, you have to take everything out in order to get to it. Newer iPhones make it almost as easy to get to the battery, and much easier and safer to get to the screen (even the 6S and newer with their waterproof/resistant seals), the only real issues come when/if you break the back glass (plastic on the 5C) or on the aluminum models (iPhone 5 - iPhone 7) dent it so much that the rear chassis needs replacing, that's a very difficult repair. 

 

As far as flagship phones go, iPhones are actually quite repairable, and even the latest ones score as well or better than the competitors on repairability (from iFixit's live teardown the iPhone 11 Pro Max actually has some tweaks to the layout of cables that make it even easier and safer to repair than older models). 

 

We won't talk about iPads pls I don't want moar PTSD so just think glue and then add some glue on top of that but mixed with fragile glass. Please do not break your iPads in the first place, people. 

[mr moose]

36 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

And what specifically about the 4-5 make them more repairable than their successors? And on what universe did the 4-5 get good battery life? We’re you around then? They were terrible! 
 

Please stop talking about hardware you aren’t familiar with. 

I never they were more repairable (although many would argue they are and that iphone's are getting increasingly harder to repair). I said they were better designed, as such they were less likely to suffer issues that could have been avoided with better design.    They got a better battery life than the 6 which died early due to be undersized. The 4 was the right size battery for the job and thus lasted it's natural life (it didn't require a software update to throttle the CPU because the battery was dying early).

 

24 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

What? That's not a faulty design, that's how batteries work. The battery in my Galaxy S6 was shit (it was a good few years old), the battery in my mid-2012 MacBook Pro needs to be serviced according to macOS (it's still at 75% capacity and I use it mostly plugged in tho so it's fine), any device with these kinds of batteries needs them replaced every 400-600 cycles or so AFAIK. 

It was faulty design, Apple chose batteries that were to small of a capacity for the power needs of the phone,  this is evidenced in the fact that the 6 plus range (which had a bigger battery) did not suffer the same issues as the 6 and 6s.  If Samsung put a battery in that is too small for the device, then the battery will wear out faster in that too, that will also be a design issue and not normal battery degradation.

 

Because the usable cycles you get out of a battery depends very much on the type of cycling it experiences, full discharge and recharge will reduce the number of cycles you get and that occurs when the battery is too small.  Partial discharge and slow recharge results in more usable cycles, this is what occurs when the battery is the right size or bigger than power requirements of the device.

 

24 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

It wasn't any design fault on Apple's part in this specific case, it was how Apple decided to deal with it (throttling). And throttling was the right choice, juuuuuust they should have told people they were doing that. They didn't, so that's where the controversy came from. 

The point is if they had of used the right size battery there would have been no need for throttling in the first place.  This is a classic example of issues stemming from design decisions and not normal battery degradation.    No one is saying that the battery should have lasted longer, I am saying that the battery they chose was too small.

 

24 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

It's easier to replace the battery in a 4/4S due to the fact that the back glass comes off with just 2 screws and there's no wires in the way. But because of that it's much, much more difficult to replace the screen, you have to take everything out in order to get to it. Newer iPhones make it almost as easy to get to the battery, and much easier and safer to get to the screen (even the 6S and newer with their waterproof/resistant seals), the only real issues come when/if you break the back glass (plastic on the 5C) or on the aluminum models (iPhone 5 - iPhone 7) dent it so much that the rear chassis needs replacing, that's a very difficult repair. 

 

Another example of things being less of an issue with the 4, by design the newer phones are much harder to repair in the case of normal wear and tear.

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

36 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

It's easier to replace the battery in a 4/4S due to the fact that the back glass comes off with just 2 screws and there's no wires in the way.

Yeah but the trade off is it’s much more difficult to get at the screen. The 5 and up make it much easier to get at everything. Hence my confusion over the claim that the 4 & 5 are somehow more repairable. Because they aren’t. 

[Zando_]

22 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I never they were more repairable (although many would argue they are and that iphone's are getting increasingly harder to repair). I said they were better designed, as such they were less likely to suffer issues that could have been avoided with better design.    They got a better battery life than the 6 which died early due to be undersized. The 4 was the right size battery for the job and thus lasted it's natural life (it didn't require a software update to throttle the CPU because the battery was dying early).

 

It was faulty design, Apple chose batteries that were to small of a capacity for the power needs of the phone,  this is evidenced in the fact that the 6 plus range (which had a bigger battery) did not suffer the same issues as the 6 and 6s.  If Samsung put a battery in that is too small for the device, then the battery will wear out faster in that too, that will also be a design issue and not normal battery degradation.

 

Because the usable cycles you get out of a battery depends very much on the type of cycling it experiences, full discharge and recharge will reduce the number of cycles you get and that occurs when the battery is too small.  Partial discharge and slow recharge results in more usable cycles, this is what occurs when the battery is the right size or bigger than power requirements of the device.

 

The point is if they had of used the right size battery there would have been no need for throttling in the first place.  This is a classic example of issues stemming from design decisions and not normal battery degradation.    No one is saying that the battery should have lasted longer, I am saying that the battery they chose was too small.

Nah pretty sure it's degradation of the battery. Phones with larger batteries will experience the same thing, just later on in their life cycle.

 

23 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Another example of things being less of an issue with the 4, by design the newer phones are much harder to repair in the case of normal wear and tear.

What? Did you read what I wrote? I literally said the new phones are easier to repair (especially for normal breakages, aka the battery and screen). The iPhone 4S has one (1) advantage in that it is slightly easier to get to the battery and safer due to no cables in the way. The newer phones are still pretty damn easy and they make getting to the screen vastly easier, and those are the two most commonly replaced things on iPhones. Aka they are easier to repair than the iPhone 4S ever was. Source: me having worked on the newer iPhones. 6 Plus I had for a while and took apart a zillion times - thing still works but the battery is oof, see my earlier point - then some 6Ss, a couple 6s, an iPhone SE a few times, and an iPhone 7/8 or two, in addition to my first phone (and first one to be broken), my iPhone 4S.

[Blademaster91]

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

the sad part about this discussion is that that all probably needed to be listed so because people keep pretending they never happened.

 

The worst part is apple wouldn't have had to replace batteries on the 6 if they designed it right from the beginning. Which is clearly the issue.  So pointing out that they did have a battery program is providing evidence for their shitty designs since after the 4/5.

 

 

The same people pretending it never happened also like to crap on anything that runs Android, and there wouldn't be free or price reduced parts programs if the hardware wasn't defective in the first place, or forced to offer repair with lawsuits, Apple would love to charge you $80 for an out of warranty battery if they could.

Is Android affected by GPS being out of date? IIRC it isn't as time dependent on a GPS signal and the good thing about Android is you can update an app instead of an OS patch.

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

Another example of things being less of an issue with the 4, by design the newer phones are much harder to repair in the case of normal wear and tear.

Yeah I wouldn't exactly call it easy to replace as you can risk cracking the glass or ruining the display, the iPhone 8 for example requires the screen to be pried off to replace the battery,and care has to be taken not to pull to hard or you risk ripping out the delicate ribbon cables underneath the display. You also need special tools to even open the phone, I don't quite understand why Apple screws in the display as its already glued in with newer phones, although the iphone 4 also needs a pentalobe driver to open it up.

[Mooshi]

Lmao this doesn't do anything if they have Verizon since anything older than a 6 will have no support end of 2020.

[Thaldor]

3 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

My impression from someone's update above was that GPS time (which is an extremely synchronized, carrier-agnostic time) is the ONLY internal reference clock available to these models. Thus any certificate date is going to be rejected as erroneous based on the internal clock. So the update is either fixing the rollover, or letting the device update its internal time via a different method.

 

No android device I am aware of today (or in the recent past) lacks the ability to use a different time source to set the internal device time, but some old 2012 articles talking about leap seconds seem to indicate that that wasnt always the case. Of course it could have been updated via software itself and still doesnt address that this issue was known 20 years ago at least, and should have been fixable at literally any moment apple wanted to since the launch of the device, so waiting until 3 months ago is stupid.

 

As mentioned before, I guess there was some justification to not relying on carrier time or internet time sufficiently long ago in the past, but I personally would have expected that era to have past long before 2011.

The problem is actually the sync process where the satellite and the device communicate. The satellite will have it's software up to date and understand that 00000001 is the first week in the new cycle but if the device doesn't have it's software up to date and doesn't understand the cycle it will read it as the first week of the earlier cycle or even the first cycle and cannot sync with the satellite because the device is receiving "messages from the past" or it might think it's 1999 or 1979 and be all around fucked because every signature and time related code is from 2000's or even 2010's.

 

But either way this shouldn't be any kind of problem for anything modern. Just like the incoming Y2038-problem which isn't any kind of problem for anything that is designed after something like 2006 when the first signs were seen, but there is still a huge problems with it: 1) There isn't any universal fix for the Y2038, some have gone with unsigned 32-bit integer moving the problem to 2106, others with unsigned 64-bit integer, some go with reformating the time signature (like adding "n" to somewhere) and other various ways how UNIX-based systems may get around not relapsing to the year 1901. 2) Devices and systems designed and made before the problem was found, even still UNIX/UNIX-like systems are not that common among consumers (except Android) there's a ton of systems that have been build years before that use UNIX and their last major updates are long overdue, things like TV-broadcast systems, automation controlling, embedded systems, things like network backbones and just a ton of stuff where UNIX/UNIX-like system might have been used and all of those are not coded to handle the moment when the time_t goes from 01111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 to 10000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 and starts again. And mostly the problem isn't that the system couldn't show the user the correct time, the problem is to tell other devices, softwares and possible things that require communication the right time and understand that they send the system the right time.

[Yoinkerman]

Man if only the biggest company in the world could have seen this coming

[ryao]

9 hours ago, Sauron said:

For pseudo code I'd need to look up the details of the standard which I can't really be bothered to do, regardless it should be as easy as keeping a separate counter on the device to ensure that dates after the roll over aren't considered to be earlier than dates before it. If there are edge cases (can't really think of many edge cases for an overflowing counter tbh) then check for those edge cases. You can do whatever you want on your device, so long as you preserve the original standard for external communication you'll be fine.

A device reset would be an edge case.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

Nah pretty sure it's degradation of the battery. Phones with larger batteries will experience the same thing, just later on in their life cycle.

It's an expedited degradation due to being an undersized battery for the job.   You don't put a 300CCA car battery in a truck because you will kill it within a couple of starts,  for exactly the same reason you don't put an undersized battery in a phone or you reduce the life span of said battery.  It is not normal battery degradation when the battery is undersized for the intended device.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

What? Did you read what I wrote? I literally said the new phones are easier to repair (especially for normal breakages, aka the battery and screen). The iPhone 4S has one (1) advantage in that it is slightly easier to get to the battery and safer due to no cables in the way. The newer phones are still pretty damn easy and they make getting to the screen vastly easier, and those are the two most commonly replaced things on iPhones. Aka they are easier to repair than the iPhone 4S ever was. Source: me having worked on the newer iPhones. 6 Plus I had for a while and took apart a zillion times - thing still works but the battery is oof, see my earlier point - then some 6Ss, a couple 6s, an iPhone SE a few times, and an iPhone 7/8 or two, in addition to my first phone (and first one to be broken), my iPhone 4S.

 

I know what you said, I am saying that newer phones are not easier to fix as the software can and does brick your phone. the glass backs are permanently glued on and need special tools to remove, so on and etc.   please don't try to argue that iphone's are getting easier to repair when it is as plain as day that apple are trying to make it as hard as they can for people to fix their own phones.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

The same people pretending it never happened also like to crap on anything that runs Android, and there wouldn't be free or price reduced parts programs if the hardware wasn't defective in the first place, or forced to offer repair with lawsuits, Apple would love to charge you $80 for an out of warranty battery if they could.

Is Android affected by GPS being out of date? IIRC it isn't as time dependent on a GPS signal and the good thing about Android is you can update an app instead of an OS patch.

Yeah I wouldn't exactly call it easy to replace as you can risk cracking the glass or ruining the display, the iPhone 8 for example requires the screen to be pried off to replace the battery,and care has to be taken not to pull to hard or you risk ripping out the delicate ribbon cables underneath the display. You also need special tools to even open the phone, I don't quite understand why Apple screws in the display as its already glued in with newer phones, although the iphone 4 also needs a pentalobe driver to open it up.

I'm not overly efficient at repairing Iphones, but I have successfully done the battery in a 4, and I wouldn't touch any of the newer ones.  As I said above, apple are going out of their way to make the things unrepairable with permanently glued together parts, firmware that bricks your device if you use an import screen (if you can even import a screen without apples barking boy customs officials stealing them first).  so on and so forth.  how anyone can argue the later models are easier to fix is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sauron]

7 hours ago, ryao said:

A device reset would be an edge case.

You could just get the correct date from the internet or the user, then check if there's a disparity with the GPS date and adjust the internal timer accordingly. This is quite easy.

[Video Beagle]

10 hours ago, Mooshi said:

Lmao this doesn't do anything if they have Verizon since anything older than a 6 will have no support end of 2020.

source on this?

[RedRound2]

14 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Because it is an app update, or at least it should be.  Same thing happened back when their calculator was having issues with taking inputs during animations causing it to miss keystrokes if they were too fast - it required a whole OS update to fix rather than just a patch to the calculator app. 

And may I ask you what's wrong with whole OS updates compared to app updates? System updates on iOS doesn't mean you're downloading a full copy of iOS Everytime you want to update. A simple bug like this probably at max 20 mb or something.

 

If you were talking about android, that would make sense as play store updates is the only way to bypass manufacturers and carrier approval. But it's iOS, Apple can decide tomorrow to roll out an update and it will happen for all the devices simultaneously

14 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

That seems like a design flaw in iOS and how they do updates in general to me.

I did compare them because it's completely fair to.  What your describing would be terrible, we want mobile to get better, not desktop systems to get worse.  On desktop, hardware and software abstraction works as it should.  Applications are built for the OS, and the OS handles the hardware.  You don't have this full vertical integration that causes perfectly good hardware to be killed off for arbitrary software-related reasons.  That's my point, that that's something mobile would do well to pickup, but it won't because the current paradigm is better for making  people buy a new phone every few years.

You're going on some random rant that I never questioned or said anything about. What I stated was a simple as this. Some software features require a lot more powerful hardware. For example, iOS and Android have a lot of machine learning code running in the background and you cannot expect phones from 5 years ago to be able to run all that properly.

 

As a parallel, if Microsoft decided to ditch support for extremely low powered or old devices they could get rid of half the problems that plague windows devices today. One of the simple glitches that constantly annoys me is how windows aero (or whatever it's called now) keeps turning on and off randomly.

 

An example of a desktop OS that changes much faster than windows is macOS. Since almost all modern Macs have SSD, they could implement a more efficient SSD friendlier APFS system. Microsoft can never hope to ever do something like that due to legacy support.

 

13 hours ago, mr moose said:

Actually, it's just a fair opinion and several people clearly hold the same.  If it upsets you that others have opinions maybe you should avoid the forums.   No coloring, no need to get your jimmies rustled, you can just ignore it if you like or you can try post evidence as to why it's wrong.

 

 

It's not an opinion that holds any water. Please show me evidence to it and don't mistaken your herd of Apple haters cult who liked your comment to mean anything in the real world. Honestly wouldn't even be surprised if you or any of them have never even used an iPhone for more than 5 min.

 

And seriously, don't bother replying if you're not even going to link one article or validated opinion piece that would be in line with your comment.

[RejZoR]

14 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

You mean to tell me that bendgate, touch disease, the audio IC chips coming loose and the whole thing with Apple quietly slowing phones down after a year (because that was easier than spending just a little more on good batteries) are no base and that there is no evidence of any of those being a problem? 

 

Sure, but they wouldn't have had that program if it weren't for people suing them because their year-old phones were unexpectedly shutting down due to crappy batteries.  Can't really praise Apple for that.  If they had their way, you'd have paid the full price for that replacement.

 

I love ppl who spread BS like "crappy batteries" and "slowdowns after a year". Batteries are what they are. Li-ion is li-ion. I very much doubt that Apple picks bottom of the barrel supliers coz that would make them look bad. As for phone slowdowns, you can be sure as hell that "1 year" is really 3+ years coz ppl hang with iPhones for years unlike Androids that are junk pretty much after updates run out. And if people burn battery twice a day and charge it while gaming, that's not helping the battery which then sits at 100% most of the nights coz they charge them overnight too. But sure, go on and blame Apple for obeying laws of physics and material properties. Mine is still at 100% coz I take extra care of battery. And it'll be 1 year old soon.

 

What Apple did to extend phone usability was clever, their fuckup was not clearly disclosing it and giving users ability to decide whether they want performance and more frequent charging or slight performance degradation and longer battery life.

[TechyBen]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I love ppl who spread BS like "crappy batteries" and "slowdowns after a year". Batteries are what they are. Li-ion is li-ion. I very much doubt that Apple picks bottom of the barrel supliers coz that would make them look bad. As for phone slowdowns, you can be sure as hell that "1 year" is really 3+ years coz ppl hang with iPhones for years unlike Androids that are junk pretty much after updates run out. And if people burn battery twice a day and charge it while gaming, that's not helping the battery which then sits at 100% most of the nights coz they charge them overnight too. But sure, go on and blame Apple for obeying laws of physics and material properties. Mine is still at 100% coz I take extra care of battery. And it'll be 1 year old soon.

 

What Apple did to extend phone usability was clever, their fuckup was not clearly disclosing it and giving users ability to decide whether they want performance and more frequent charging or slight performance degradation and longer battery life.

Huh? You just replaced all the factually correct data and confirmable technical details of the phone with opinion. That's fine, but I am not sure you realise that that stuff is opinion, and not fact (such as your opinion people keep Android phones less, rather than backing it up with facts/data, vs iPhones not having 1 years of battery use for a certain fault being backed not by opinion, but by facts and data: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/20/16803190/iphone-slowdown-is-needed-but-also-a-problem )

 

For example, your opinion on how to use a phone, is valid, but not related to the fact the phones batteries were not underperforming due to charge cycles, but due to size vs expected use. IF the phone churned through app use that high, then the user expects to be able to do so. A "3 year warranty" on a car, might have a mileage limit, but it has a mileage limit... the iPhone was sold with 100% CPU use ability, if they wanted to stop users trashing the battery via power hungry apps, then they needed to sell it with the 75% use (as an example) limit from day 1. Or as you say, give the choice... like Samsung has in Android "high power/power saving".

[RejZoR]

Sure, I replaced all of it with "opinion". Laughable. Only someone who doesn't know basics of physics and chemistry behind li-ion batteries could ever say such a thing. But muh obligatory pissing on Apple.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Huh? You just replaced all the factually correct data and confirmable technical details of the phone with opinion. That's fine, but I am not sure you realise that that stuff is opinion, and not fact (such as your opinion people keep Android phones less, rather than backing it up with facts/data, vs iPhones not having 1 years of battery use for a certain fault being backed not by opinion, but by facts and data: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/20/16803190/iphone-slowdown-is-needed-but-also-a-problem )

 

For example, your opinion on how to use a phone, is valid, but not related to the fact the phones batteries were not underperforming due to charge cycles, but due to size vs expected use. IF the phone churned through app use that high, then the user expects to be able to do so. A "3 year warranty" on a car, might have a mileage limit, but it has a mileage limit... the iPhone was sold with 100% CPU use ability, if they wanted to stop users trashing the battery via power hungry apps, then they needed to sell it with the 75% use (as an example) limit from day 1. Or as you say, give the choice... like Samsung has in Android "high power/power saving".

iPhones are sold with one year warranty, so if you take care as @RejZoR said, it’s certainly possible to have a fine battery. 
 

it’s really annoying to see this stupid argument around the batter life when they’ve done it before and no one noticed. 

[PurplDrank]

On 10/28/2019 at 12:32 AM, floofer said:

Urgent update for older iPhones before they lose vital functions

Source: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12280261

 

It appears Apple pushing update for the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5, making the support for these phones around 8 and 7 years, being released in 2011 and 2012 respectively. But why?

 

Thats interesting, I wonder if Android devices need an update too? (Theres a joke there somewhere with Android and Updates). So why is this update necessary and how does GPS Technology keep track of time?

 

Thats quite interesting, however it should be noted that the 5 will need to update to iOS 10.3.4, and the 4S to iOS 9.3.6. So great that these are still supported, great for budged-minded people holding on to still-capable (not really) iPhones. 

 

However older iPhones will not be updated, and iPad models with cellular connectivity up to the 4th generation, will also be depreciated. Which is fair enough as they are just hard to use now. So - as a reminder:

 

Make sure to update, there is probably an update for all Apple iDevices for this fix too.

 

 

My Opinion:

- Great work.  I'm sure these phones are probably hand-me-down to kids, and for people who bought them not too long ago on a budget. Excellent news that they are still able to be used to their full functionality after so long. 

 

- I wonder if Android devices will be issuing a similar fix for phones that are older, maybe not 8 years but you know.

Apple is like Starbucks.....alot of fluff and no real reason to get it. Why would we get Starbucks thats half whipped cream when we can get real coffee for half the price? 

 

People only get Apple products and starbucks for the status. Its like when kids used to buy Abercrombie and fitch clothes in high school. 

 

Apple hasn't done anything innovative in years. The Iphone paved the way for more smartphones. But that was what 10 years ago? The Apple watch is the dumbest invention ive seen to be honest. 

[Zando_]

Just now, PurplDrank said:

Apple is like Starbucks.....alot of fluff and no real reason to get it. Why would we get Starbucks thats half whipped cream when we can get real coffee for half the price? 

 

People only get Apple products and starbucks for the status. Its like when kids used to buy Abercrombie and fitch clothes in high school. 

 

Apple hasn't done anything innovative in years. The Iphone paved the way for more smartphones. But that was what 10 years ago? The Apple watch is the dumbest invention ive seen to be honest. 

I have my Apple stuff because I like how it works. I enjoy the Apple ecosystem, my iPhone X does exactly what I want it to when I want it to 90%+ of the time (I did seriously consider an android back when I bought this, but decided to stick with iOS for various extremely niche/picky personal reasons), my Apple Watch Series 3 is excellent, and I used a mid-2012 MacBook Pro 13" for work and love it (especially the keyboard, best one Apple has made in a good long while IMO). 

 

So yeah, I don't buy or use Apple hardware for status, I buy and use it for the same reason I've gone through shitloads of PC hardware, a few laptops, some other phones, a Switch, a Wii U, and most recently a Raspberry Pi. I like the hardware, I like the software, thus I use it. 

[PurplDrank]

45 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

I have my Apple stuff because I like how it works. I enjoy the Apple ecosystem, my iPhone X does exactly what I want it to when I want it to 90%+ of the time (I did seriously consider an android back when I bought this, but decided to stick with iOS for various extremely niche/picky personal reasons), my Apple Watch Series 3 is excellent, and I used a mid-2012 MacBook Pro 13" for work and love it (especially the keyboard, best one Apple has made in a good long while IMO). 

 

So yeah, I don't buy or use Apple hardware for status, I buy and use it for the same reason I've gone through shitloads of PC hardware, a few laptops, some other phones, a Switch, a Wii U, and most recently a Raspberry Pi. I like the hardware, I like the software, thus I use it. 

Im sorry. You are right Apple Macs both laptop wise and desktop wise are very useful for any sort of entertainment production (film/audio) and even graphic design. I will not lie there. 

 

To be honest other products allow for more freedom with how you use them than apple products. Not to mention the new Iphone hasn't had any significant improvements since the last version of it. I actually left Iphone last year and switched to Android and am eternally grateful. The only advantage Apple watch has for me atleast is that i can check text messages while im in the class room(girlfriend got me one for christmas, i didn't buy it) without looking at my phone and getting into trouble, otherwise apple watch is practically useless. 

[Zando_]

28 minutes ago, PurplDrank said:

Im sorry. You are right Apple Macs both laptop wise and desktop wise are very useful for any sort of entertainment production (film/audio) and even graphic design. I will not lie there. 

 

To be honest other products allow for more freedom with how you use them than apple products. Not to mention the new Iphone hasn't had any significant improvements since the last version of it. I actually left Iphone last year and switched to Android and am eternally grateful. The only advantage Apple watch has for me atleast is that i can check text messages while im in the class room(girlfriend got me one for christmas, i didn't buy it) without looking at my phone and getting into trouble, otherwise apple watch is practically useless. 

I use my Mac for mostly office work, multitasking with multiple MS Office, browser, and Finder windows is much smoother and simpler than on Windows. 

 

My Apple Watch I use for Maps while driving so I don't need to look at my phone (though not so much anymore since I got a dash mount for it). Also I'm very forgetful, I use it to find my phone and my phone to find my keys thanks to the Tile thing I have. I use it to tell time too, it's pretty good at that. Also helps with additional accuracy for tracking any outdoor activities or workouts I do, as well as my heartrate which is kinda cool to see. 

 

Apple stuff not fitting your use case or being your preference =/= bad. 

You are correct on the iPhones though, like every other flagship but the Galaxy Fold and a couple other niche ones, they've been incremental improvements for a while now. Not really much to innovate in standard phone design, so you're usually better off getting a new phone at most every other gen.