Apple Blows All Competition With Update to 4S

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

It's not an opinion that holds any water. Please show me evidence to it and don't mistaken your herd of Apple haters cult who liked your comment to mean anything in the real world. Honestly wouldn't even be surprised if you or any of them have never even used an iPhone for more than 5 min.

 

And seriously, don't bother replying if you're not even going to link one article or validated opinion piece that would be in line with your comment.

 

Sure thing.  Apart from the several posts that clearly articulate the problem feel free to ignore it. I mean it is so obvious and has been a point of majopr public debate for a while now.  but glad to see some people have either been living under a rock or still just pretending it never happened.

 

Proof apple have been trying to make it harder to repair your own device since the iphone 6:

 

https://www.cultofmac.com/410809/ios-9-bricks-iphones-with-unauthorized-homebutton-repairs/

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-iphone-repair-error-53-third-party-3489413

https://www.ifixit.com/News/11-3-update-breaking-iphone-screens

 

And this last one is funny because not only do they claim the battery being smaller was not going to have an effect (which we now know did) but they claim the reason the battery is smaller is to make room for the taptic engine, where have we heard that excuse before?

 

https://www.engadget.com/2015/09/10/iphone-6s-smaller-battery/

 

So yes, it is not just an opinion that doesn't hold any water, it is in fact a valid observation of reality.  And to be honest the fact you refuse to acknowledge such an obvious state of reality signifies there is no point in trying to discuss this with you.  So please go and believe what ever you want, but stop quoting me and pretending I making things up. I am not interested in further debating with someone who is merely upset that my opinion is not only valid but supported by many articles and fellow members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ryao]

16 hours ago, Sauron said:

You could just get the correct date from the internet or the user, then check if there's a disparity with the GPS date and adjust the internal timer accordingly. This is quite easy.

Not every iPhone had a cellular data or wifi connection. If they did, there would be no need to use the date time information from aGPS.

[Sauron]

6 hours ago, ryao said:

Not every iPhone had a cellular data or wifi connection. If they did, there would be no need to use the date time information from aGPS.

...not every iphone 4s has wifi? What?

 

Also who cares, let the user set the date.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

...not every iphone 4s has wifi? What?

 

Also who cares, let the user set the date.

I think what ryao means is that at times there may be no cellular data or wifi signal, so the designers chose to use GPS to set the time.  

 

It's still not very bright but I guess they can always automatically set the date. To note the user can set the date just fine, I'm not sure  what services would be disabled  w/o the update, if the user just sets the time manually, however presumably this caveat was thought of and the update, which would have cost apple a pear and a bit, was necessary. 

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, floofer said:

I think what ryao means is that at times there may be no cellular data or wifi signal, so the designers chose to use GPS to set the time.  

And sometimes there may not be GPS, what's the difference? Phones don't need to constantly ping for time... or ever really, if you never connect to the internet or use gps then user set time is good enough. Not that that's a realistic use case for an iphone...

 

Also to download this update you need to connect to the internet, so the hypothetical situation where you never had access to wifi for the last 10 years doesn't really apply.

36 minutes ago, floofer said:

To note the user can set the date just fine, I'm not sure  what services would be disabled  w/o the update, if the user just sets the time manually, however presumably this caveat was thought of and the update, which would have cost apple a pear and a bit, was necessary

From what I understand, the phone would straight up stop working.

[mr moose]

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

And sometimes there may not be GPS, what's the difference? Phones don't need to constantly ping for time... or ever really, if you never connect to the internet or use gps then user set time is good enough. Not that that's a realistic use case for an iphone...

 

I happened to see 3 phones side by side the other day and they all had a different time on them.  They were apart by minutes each,  I nor anyone else has had issues with anything not working,  least of which is GPS enabled services.

 

 

[Soppro]

Planned obsolescence, my ass!

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

I happened to see 3 phones side by side the other day and they all had a different time on them.  They were apart by minutes each,  I nor anyone else has had issues with anything not working,  least of which is GPS enabled services.

 

 

A few minutes are one thing, 20 years are another. Quoting the article:

Quote

iPhone users still clinging to their seven-year-old iPhone 5 or eight-year-old iPhone 4S models need to update to the latest software this week, or risk losing access to GPS, email, iCloud, the App Store and other web services.

This is because certificates have a certain period of time for which they're valid and if your time is set to before or after that the will not work. What is absolutely mind boggling is that there would be no other way for the phone to set its date and time other than just getting it from the GPS signal.

[RedRound2]

17 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Sure thing.  Apart from the several posts that clearly articulate the problem feel free to ignore it. I mean it is so obvious and has been a point of majopr public debate for a while now.  but glad to see some people have either been living under a rock or still just pretending it never happened.

 

Proof apple have been trying to make it harder to repair your own device since the iphone 6:

 

https://www.cultofmac.com/410809/ios-9-bricks-iphones-with-unauthorized-homebutton-repairs/

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-iphone-repair-error-53-third-party-3489413

https://www.ifixit.com/News/11-3-update-breaking-iphone-screens

Omfg. You talk as if every other phone that has come out since then has been perfect and had zero issues. And the fact that Apple the iPhone isn't as repairable as a some kind of DIY electronics doesn't have anything to do with how long they last without breaking.

 

Its a universally agreed consensus that iPhone last a lot longer their Android counterparts. People are happily using their 6Ss from 2015 with the latest updates and features while Android counterparts barely exist. If you're going to deny that and cherry pick some negative news, you have no hope kid.

 

And as for the problem you stated. Apple didn't want unauthorized repairs on Touch ID and they later fixed it with an update. Its easy to understand that there might be been a software brick if the phone suddenly detected an unauthorized/compromised touch ID module.

Quote

And this last one is funny because not only do they claim the battery being smaller was not going to have an effect (which we now know did) (any source???) but they claim the reason the battery is smaller is to make room for the taptic engine, where have we heard that excuse before?

 

https://www.engadget.com/2015/09/10/iphone-6s-smaller-battery/

And? What effect did it make? iPhone 6S has pretty decent battery life, no worse compared to others at the time or the prior iPhone 6. I own one. You wanna talk about a modern day fuck up, try pixel which seems like a phone designed by 5 year olds, putting a laughably small battery for a phone that intrinsically requires more power to run.

 

And if it ever occured for you to ever see teardowns of any iPhones, you'll know the taptic engine is takes up a huge amount of the space. Here's a reference, if you somehow ended up living under the rock for past 4 years.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/nkQBi6BBTR2wGQGL7

 

Quote

So yes, it is not just an opinion that doesn't hold any water, it is in fact a valid observation of reality.  And to be honest the fact you refuse to acknowledge such an obvious state of reality signifies there is no point in trying to discuss this with you.  So please go and believe what ever you want, but stop quoting me and pretending I making things up. I am not interested in further debating with someone who is merely upset that my opinion is not only valid but supported by many articles and fellow members.

 

The fact that you're so petty and refuse to acknowledge about how good iPhones actually are (check out Linus's last part of the iPhone 11 Pro review) are just fanboys. It's stupidly dumb and annoying. iPhones sell well, and as long as they keep making great products they will continue to. And so far, Apple has been the leader in smartphone innovation is so many different aspects (think about any one company, not Android or competition as a whole) who've contributed as much or pushed forward as much as Apple.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Tegos said:

I don't think this means planned obsolescence isn't a thing. I personally think it's 100% a thing and Apple's not the only ones that do it.

Planned obsolescence. By a vendor that supports devices in software pretty much guaranteed for 5 years. And only iPhone users seem to be the sort of users who stick with a phone for that long. I basically don't know any Android user that would have it for that long. Mainly because they either crap out, get so slow they are unusable which is basically a trademark of Android and battery drain that's also Android's signature that doesn't fare well with worn out batteries after that much time. Planned obsolescence is with Androids where you can be happy if you get 1 major update. And that's basically it. If you have lower tier phone you most probably won't even get that. Custom ROMs is something general public doesn't ever deal with and even that was usually a clusterfuck whenever I tried doing it. And I'm a freaking advanced user.

 

Apple seems to be the only one who actually cares about users long term, they are just shit at communicating that to the users. Then again majority of iPhone users don't care what trickery Apple did behind the scenes (that slowdowns thing to make phones work on worn out batteries). I care since I'm power user. Majority simply doesn't care. Bionic chips are already so much faster than competition, degrading their performance after years, it only brings it to a level Android phones had on launch. Which is why ppl didn't even complain much. I used to shit on Apple a lot in the past, but now owning 2 of their products I understand a lot of design and business decisions.

[RejZoR]

6 minutes ago, Tegos said:

Can confirm. My current device has some really annoying battery issues. Also owned a Galaxy Pocket a couple of years ago that crapped out all of a sudden after about two years of use.

I think the fact that Android also has a plethora of low-end (and by that I mean "total garbage") devices contributes to that. I've seen some Android phones with unbearably slow hardware.

 

I think planned obsolescence has more to do with performance degradation over time than companies just being evil and trying to strong-arm people out of their money every year.

But if that was the case with Apple, they'd be playing Android's game of just not giving a fuck to release any updates for it after very short period of time. I now also sort of understand why ppl are willing to pay such high prices for iPhones. If you stick with it up to 5 years, it sort of makes sense. Or paying same money for Android phone every 2-3 years. The cost spreads out over longer period of time.

[Thaldor]

6 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And so far, Apple has been the leader in smartphone innovation is so many different aspects (think about any one company, not Android or competition as a whole) who've contributed as much or pushed forward as much as Apple.

You mean: Apple has been "greatest" smartphone manufacturer, as in doesn't create anything but packages others inventions into different box and calls them "new" (touch screen, compass, just a long list of shit that Apple claims is new but is really stuff that has been available forever), strongly refuses to adhere common goals over their own profit (USB-C charging for example, IIRC EU suggested that all phone manufacturers should move to use USB-C port to reduce waste created from making multiple different charging cables for phones, Apple "nicely" dodged the whole point by moving from USB-A -> Lightning to USB-C -> Lightning cables and called it "USB-C Charging cable"), stands against real progress just to be the snowflake in the sandbox (nano-SIM fiasco, there was a chance to have a SIM-card that included removable storage, possible identification measures build-in, stronger security and quite a lot more because the original SIM was already old, Nokia was behind developing the new nano-SIM standard and gained every other manufacturer and the biggest carriers behind it, except our lord and savior, the mighty and all knowing Apple, which was quite possibly already making iPhone 5 and designed their own nano-SIM which was what we have now, the normal original SIM card (from the 1991) without any excess plastic because that's innovative) and creates the least repairable phones even so far that it's only a question when you cannot change a battery without bricking the thing and all because you shouldn't be able to repair your phone, but to pay 10-100x what it really costs just because you cannot get to be a trillion dollar company without being a total Shithead.

 

And this GPS thing is like the dog shit frosting on the cake (freely quoting Steve Jobs). It's not about the support but how "innovative" must you be to not read the manual, which quite well probably tells you that never trust GPS time and if you trust, make a fallback for this little thing called GPS rollover which happens every 1028th week, while creating the OS that supports GPS.

[TechyBen]

On 10/29/2019 at 5:44 PM, floofer said:

iPhones are sold with one year warranty, so if you take care as @RejZoR said, it’s certainly possible to have a fine battery. 
 

it’s really annoying to see this stupid argument around the batter life when they’ve done it before and no one noticed. 

No. 2 years legal here.

 

[TechyBen]

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

I happened to see 3 phones side by side the other day and they all had a different time on them.  They were apart by minutes each,  I nor anyone else has had issues with anything not working,  least of which is GPS enabled services.

 

 

That is not the internal clock. That is the displayed time.

[corsairian]

I have a 4s that I forgot the password to. Am I boned?

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Omfg. You talk as if every other phone that has come out since then has been perfect and had zero issues

WTF are you talking about? I never mentioned other phones.  I am not even comparing apple to anything.

 

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

. And the fact that Apple the iPhone isn't as repairable as a some kind of DIY electronics doesn't have anything to do with how long they last without breaking.

It does have everything to do with how they can be used without issues introduced by design.  Which is what I claimed in the first post and every other post.  

 

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Its a universally agreed consensus that iPhone last a lot longer their Android counterparts. People are happily using their 6Ss from 2015 with the latest updates and features while Android counterparts barely exist. If you're going to deny that and cherry pick some negative news, you have no hope kid.

There is no cherry picking here, you just don't like the facts. 

 

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And as for the problem you stated. Apple didn't want unauthorized repairs on Touch ID and they later fixed it with an update. Its easy to understand that there might be been a software brick if the phone suddenly detected an unauthorized/compromised touch ID module.

And? What effect did it make? iPhone 6S has pretty decent battery life, no worse compared to others at the time or the prior iPhone 6. I own one. You wanna talk about a modern day fuck up, try pixel which seems like a phone designed by 5 year olds, putting a laughably small battery for a phone that intrinsically requires more power to run.

Apple doesn't want us fixing their phones PERIOD.  forget all the mind bending psychology you use to keep your head in the sand about that one.

 

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And if it ever occured for you to ever see teardowns of any iPhones, you'll know the taptic engine is takes up a huge amount of the space. Here's a reference, if you somehow ended up living under the rock for past 4 years.

You have conveniently (or ignorantly) ignored the major problem they had with using a smaller battery which they said wouldn't be a problem.  I mean seriously, I provide proof they did something stupid in design that supports my original comments and you start defending the other thing they did instead of understanding why it is relevant to my original statements.  

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

https://images.app.goo.gl/nkQBi6BBTR2wGQGL7

 

The fact that you're so petty and refuse to acknowledge about how good iPhones actually are (check out Linus's last part of the iPhone 11 Pro review) are just fanboys. It's stupidly dumb and annoying. iPhones sell well, and as long as they keep making great products they will continue to. And so far, Apple has been the leader in smartphone innovation is so many different aspects (think about any one company, not Android or competition as a whole) who've contributed as much or pushed forward as much as Apple.

You are so hellbent on defending apple from their practices that you think everyone else is petty?

And now you are resorting back to the ignorant old arguments of  -Apple made this industry- and -apple pushed tech forward-.

 

please, we are not as blindfolded to these things as you are.

 

 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, TechyBen said:

No. 2 years legal here.

 

It's actually 3 years due to the law in NZ, but in general globally its one year. 

[ryao]

On 10/30/2019 at 4:39 AM, Sauron said:

...not every iphone 4s has wifi? What?

 

Also who cares, let the user set the date.

Not everyone with an iPhone configures it to use wifi. Some lack data connections too.

[Mr.Meerkat]

On 10/28/2019 at 7:38 AM, Juular said:

What GPS rollover has to do with losing access to anything besides GPS ?

Just in case nobody has responded to you, one of the possible reasons is PKI certificates and authentication systems. With a system clock significantly off, it may cause certificate errors as they may be invalid as your system clock shows that they have already expired or not yet valid, which causes your system to not trust them, preventing the connection.

 

Granted, I'm not actually sure if GPS time affects system time so what I said above might be competely incorrect  

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, ryao said:

Not everyone with an iPhone configures it to use wifi. Some lack data connections too.

How will they download this update then? Also why would that prevent them from setting the date manually?

[Zando_]

18 hours ago, corsairian said:

I have a 4s that I forgot the password to. Am I boned?

Password to the 4S or your AppleID? I think if you restore from a backup it removes the password (not 100% sure on that though), or you can wipe the iPhone and then re-set it up. If you were signed in with your AppleID then you need the password for that to get into it after wiping it, Find My iPhone will brick the device otherwise. 

[ryao]

10 hours ago, Sauron said:

How will they download this update then? Also why would that prevent them from setting the date manually?

They could use iTunes. I don’t think iOS supports setting the date manually.

 

That said, you seem to be seeing why it is called an edge case.

[RedRound2]

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

WTF are you talking about? I never mentioned other phones.  I am not even comparing apple to anything.

You took out a few bad articles of iPhones, using it as an example for why iPhones are unrepairable hence terrible products. I'm drawing parallels, that's it's the same case with every freakin phone out there. iPhones will obviously get the most media attention due to people like you, but nothing is perfect.

 

Did I really have to spell that analogy out to you. Smh.

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

It does have everything to do with how they can be used without issues introduced by design.  Which is what I claimed in the first post and every other post.  

With this point, you're implying other phones are better? All modern phones are almost made the same. Glass Sandwich between metal railing with lots of glue. It's the only way to make the phones feel premium, get free of antenna lines, and IP rated.

 

Issues introduced with design? Yeah, get yourself one of those DIY Arduino phones and live a happy life. And again you talk as if this only applies to Apple when literally every other phone is the same.

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

There is no cherry picking here, you just don't like the facts. 

Oh but there is. You could link articles on how iPhones last longer, have the latest software updates, better privacy control, etc. And the fact that you had to pick up a 4 year old news to try to prove some (moot) point is in itself, pointless

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

Apple doesn't want us fixing their phones PERIOD.  forget all the mind bending psychology you use to keep your head in the sand about that one.

They don't prefer it. Because they don't want to sell each iPhone component to the public and they want to avoid any sort of backlash that might occur on their product due to amature repairing skills by a layman.

 

But didn't they recently just extend their repair authorization and part accessibility to independent repair store? You must've forgotten about it, didn't you. Or you only wake up when there's some negative apple news.

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

You have conveniently (or ignorantly) ignored the major problem they had with using a smaller battery which they said wouldn't be a problem.

What was the problem? You keep mentioning about some problem that nobody knows anything of. The 6S had equally good battery life. Good god

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

  I mean seriously, I provide proof they did something stupid in design that supports my original comments and you start defending the other thing they did instead of understanding why it is relevant to my original statements. 

Proof of what? Some news article 4 years ago, that was later fixed by Apple. And it had something to do with privacy, so I'd rather prefer that than having news floating around of fingerprint data getting stolen by third party modules

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

 

 

You are so hellbent on defending apple from their practices that you think everyone else is petty?

And now you are resorting back to the ignorant old arguments of  -Apple made this industry- and -apple pushed tech forward-.

I'm hell-bent? You're hell-bent that you just can't stand it when Apple does a lot of good stuff and I know it makes your blood boil, as clearly evidences by your lack of understanding, knowledge, and clear fanboyism against Apple

 

And how is apple moving the industry, Ignorant. Are you at this point staright up going to deny universal facts. Reminds me of a certain president, tbh

On 10/31/2019 at 2:50 AM, mr moose said:

please, we are not as blindfolded to these things as you are.

Is what every fanboy likes to say when they're act like one. 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

You took out a few bad articles of iPhones, using it as an example for why iPhones are unrepairable hence terrible products. I'm drawing parallels, that's it's the same case with every freakin phone out there. iPhones will obviously get the most media attention due to people like you, but nothing is perfect.

 

I took some actually design issues in iphones from after the 4/5 and used it to support my original claims.

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Did I really have to spell that analogy out to you. Smh.

You haven't spelled anything out.

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

With this point, you're implying other phones are better? All modern phones are almost made the same. Glass Sandwich between metal railing with lots of glue. It's the only way to make the phones feel premium, get free of antenna lines, and IP rated.

No I am not, again i have not mentioned other phones,  you tried to bring other phones into this when you realized you couldn't argue against my points. 

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Issues introduced with design? Yeah, get yourself one of those DIY Arduino phones and live a happy life. And again you talk as if this only applies to Apple when literally every other phone is the same.

Again you realize that this has nothing to do with other designs and you can't deny what I have said and evidenced so you still carry on with this charade in some vein hope that it will go away.

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Oh but there is. You could link articles on how iPhones last longer, have the latest software updates, better privacy control, etc. And the fact that you had to pick up a 4 year old news to try to prove some (moot) point is in itself, pointless

They don't prefer it. Because they don't want to sell each iPhone component to the public and they want to avoid any sort of backlash that might occur on their product due to amature repairing skills by a layman.

 

See, now your just getting shitty because there are issues with apple.  This has nothing to do with reality for you, it's just about the fact that apple have mad a few mistakes along the way and you don';t like it.

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

But didn't they recently just extend their repair authorization and part accessibility to independent repair store? You must've forgotten about it, didn't you. Or you only wake up when there's some negative apple news.

What was the problem? You keep mentioning about some problem that nobody knows anything of. The 6S had equally good battery life. Good god

Proof of what? Some news article 4 years ago, that was later fixed by Apple. And it had something to do with privacy, so I'd rather prefer that than having news floating around of fingerprint data getting stolen by third party modules

I'm hell-bent? You're hell-bent that you just can't stand it when Apple does a lot of good stuff and I know it makes your blood boil, as clearly evidences by your lack of understanding, knowledge, and clear fanboyism against Apple

 

And how is apple moving the industry, Ignorant. Are you at this point staright up going to deny universal facts. Reminds me of a certain president, tbh

Is what every fanboy likes to say when they're act like one. 

I'm ignoring "universal facts"? I have to know,  are they the same as alternative facts?  because I have linked evidence, it is undeniable yet you are so hell bent on fighting me (ironically thinking I am the fanboy) because you are literally just an apple fan boy with blinkers. 

[RedRound2]

On 11/11/2019 at 1:42 AM, mr moose said:

 

I took some actually design issues in iphones from after the 4/5 and used it to support my original claims.

You haven't spelled anything out.

No I am not, again i have not mentioned other phones,  you tried to bring other phones into this when you realized you couldn't argue against my points. 

Again you realize that this has nothing to do with other designs and you can't deny what I have said and evidenced so you still carry on with this charade in some vein hope that it will go away.

 

See, now your just getting shitty because there are issues with apple.  This has nothing to do with reality for you, it's just about the fact that apple have mad a few mistakes along the way and you don';t like it.

I'm ignoring "universal facts"? I have to know,  are they the same as alternative facts?  because I have linked evidence, it is undeniable yet you are so hell bent on fighting me (ironically thinking I am the fanboy) because you are literally just an apple fan boy with blinkers. 

And none of your response have anything to do with original with whatever i stated. typical.

 

Why I brought up other phones? Because it was the successful formula. The glass sandwich design is what people prefer. You don't, companies don't give two fucks because you're a minority. Nobody wants bricks in their pockets. It comes at the cost of repairability, but needing to open up a phone in the first place is usually very rare (and 90% of the time caused by accidents, not component failure).

 

And you cannot complain something about apple when literally everybody else is doing the same thing. That is what you call fanboyism, finding faults in Apple's design philosophy, while giving no two shits about others doing the same

 

The above line is pretty much enough to su of your entire activity in LTT forum tbh. Apple gets popular, makes your blood boil and you start spewing out nonsensical things