[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[silverarrowamg]

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

the 450 is enough for your intended gpu upgrade  but I would go for the 550w if i wanted to keep my options less limited when upgrading the gpu 

What about the 650 seems cheaper? 

 

[LukeSavenije]

10 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

https://www.newegg.com/corsair-cx-series-cx450-450w/p/N82E16817139201

 

the only problem is a single pcie connector

 

I'd probably say one of these @silverarrowamg

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dDH48d/corsair-txm-gold-550w-80-gold-certified-semi-modular-atx-power-supply-cp-9020133-na

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dstQzy/seasonic-prime-snowsilent-550w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-ssr-550gd2-snowsilent

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bqVD4D/corsair-rmx-2018-550w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-cp-9020177-na

[LienusLateTips]

3 hours ago, Tenma White said:

About the Seasonic S12ii/M12ii why is it dangerous? I currently have the S12ii 520W, in pc partpicker it has a great score too, 4.8/5 stars.

 

i really need to update this but it's good enough 

[Mezoxin]

36 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Not iirc. Think they decided the old ones were too expensive (based on the HXi), so they simplified it. Either way, both are still good PSUs.

the rmi was the one that shared alot with the hxi including the FDB fans   , the rmx  shared many things withe the rmi and was better than the rm by having japanese caps but shared the same lower quality Rifle bearing fan , the V2 has the same fan as well but better fan control and thus lower noise levels another upgrade is that the 750w version now comes with 2 EPS connectors in the V2 version  as the V1 version only offered 2 epc withe the 850w version , other than that  the v1 and v2 has the same performance and quality  

[seon123]

22 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

the rmi was the one that shared alot with the hxi including the FDB fans   , the rmx  shared many things withe the rmi and was better than the rm by having japanese caps but shared the same lower quality Rifle bearing fan , the V2 has the same fan as well but better fan control and thus lower noise levels another upgrade is that the 750w version now comes with 2 EPS connectors in the V2 version  as the V1 version only offered 2 epc withe the 850w version , other than that  the v1 and v2 has the same performance and quality  

I just remembered things like this being said by a certain someone who I trust. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mezoxin]

7 minutes ago, seon123 said:

I just remembered things like this being said by a certain someone who I trust. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

yeah maybe the older one had better quality  but when it comes to performance  based on Aris benchmarks the new version is better at noise and features and performance is about the same 

 

Quote

The new RM850x and RM750x PSUs are noticeably smaller than their predecessors, while overall performance is about the same and noise output is even lower. Corsair was clearly going for a slight evolution here, and we observed a number of component changes inside the RM850x V2, including different controllers on the primary and secondary sides, that enable this. Moreover, a PIC microcontroller inside the RMx V2 PSUs is used to control the fan's operation, enabling slower rotational speeds and more conservative acoustics.

but yes the previous platform of the rmx seems to be similar to the hxi as aris has stated here its resemblance to the RMi which is basicly an HXi with lower efficiency 

Quote

Like all RMx models, the RM650x is 80 PLUS Gold-certified, features fully modular cabling, and is equipped with a medium-speed rifle bearing fan. Its platform is shared with the RMi family; Corsair simply leaves off the digital interface that allows the PSU to communicate through its Link application. On top of that, the RMi units use a higher-quality FDB fan.

[LukeSavenije]

32 minutes ago, seon123 said:

just remembered things like this being said by a certain someone who I trust

so my eyes were right... interesting

[LogicWeasel]

5 hours ago, Tenma White said:

in pc partpicker it has a great score too, 4.8/5 stars.

You need to stop overreacting to product ratings on a store page by the non-expertise public and should instead be focusing your attention to the facts that matter (the info put out by people who actually know the subject). 

 

When the common public (on Newegg, Amazon, etc) review a PSU product page most of them are either coming to complain that it didn't work (can sometimes be user error like trying to turn on PC without using CPU 4/8 pin plug and then claiming their PSU is bad) or note if it failed after a month or was DoA.  Those who didn't have those issues (the majority) are very underrepresented because few of them care enough to go to the page after they use the PSU and say "oh neat it worked and didn't start on fire, 5/5 stars!"

 

That's all there is to it.  You could have pulled the trigger on a PSU purchase by now (either the Gigabyte or the Corsair) if you stopped letting small stuff bother you like "oh no only 49 reviews on amazon for Gigabyte unit" (Cmon man the product clearly wasn't on the market for as long, not to mention you're in a smaller country than the USA ... and Gigabyte isn't a high volume PSU seller like a Corsair, of course they'll be less reviews).  Also you seem to keep mentioning that your expectations would be higher for an "80 Plus Gold" unit, when that really isn't even the top 5 important factors for choosing a PSU, do not get fixated on that, it really doesn't matter as much as you think.  Just find a PSU in your budget, that is considered not-terrible here and you can move on and get it.  Worrying about other stuff is a waste of time and posting.

  

[Mezoxin]

@LukeSavenije I've noticed you own a seasonic GX ,  Why did you pick that specific model ? do you plan on doing a review on it ?

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, Mezoxin said:

@LukeSavenije I've noticed you own a seasonic GX ,  Why did you pick that specific model ? do you plan on doing a review on it ?

i got it as a reviewers sample from seasonic themselves

 

i don't have the tools to properly review, but have done an overview already

[LogicWeasel]

9 hours ago, Meldarion said:

to my understanding it would be better and quieter to not max load my psu, 850 should give it plenty of headroom to keep coil whine/fans quiet and keep the psu working for a decade.

That's a misunderstanding.  When a computer draws 350 Watts through a PSU, it's going to create heat based on that.  A 750w PSU doesn't magically create less heat than a 550w unit from that condition, it still follows laws of thermodynamics.  The more wattage that ends up as waste in a circuit (from inherent inefficiencies like resistance), the more heat, it's that simple.  A 550w PSU instead (assuming fans and cooling in case are equal) is not going to get any more hot or loud under that uniform load.  For concerns about coil whine I would direct you to the opinions mentioned by others about checking Cybernetics and overall just understanding that it happens to even the best of PSUs, coils whine, period.  As far as keeping the PSU working for a decade, if it's operating well under the heat limits for its internals (like not having derating at 40-50C or caps rated for 100C) than it won't horribly degrade, the end.  Doesn't guarantee it'll work perfectly for 10 years, but with any quality PSU its not unheard of so long as there isn't abuse.    Once again having a 550w unit vs a 750w doesn't magically make all those components last longer just because one unit is seeing avg loads around 54% and the other around 40%.

Quote

A 750w would probably be fine I guess but the price difference isn't there and the T2 is on sale at 850 and not 750. 

Nope, for your build a 550w would be more than fine, and a 650w would be the "super extra headroom" you've stated you would want.  The PSU wattage numbers of 850-750w you have presumed you want are "pie in the sky" territory reserved for crypto mining on 3+ GPUs or extreme LN2 OC stuff.  No single CPU + GPU + stuff in case combination adds up to needing 750w that I can conceivably think of.  Not unless you count running maybe an industrial thermal-electric cooler bigger than the one Linus tested in his experimental CPU cooling video.

[LukeSavenije]

4 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

No single CPU + GPU + stuff in case adds up to needing 750w that I can conceivably think of. 

maybe a 9990xe with a 2080 ti, but these are very edgecases

 

in consumer hardware, excluding hedt and tr, 650w will always be more than enough

[Mezoxin]

11 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

That's a misunderstanding.  When a computer draws 350 Watts through a PSU, it's going to create heat based on that.  A 750w PSU doesn't magically create less heat than a 550w unit from that condition, it still follows laws of thermodynamics. 

you are right about heat generation but when it come to heat dissipation higher capacity PSU's have more/bigger components and heat sinks and more surface area thus better heat dissipation and less thermals for components under same load conditions 

for example my pc is under gaming load (around 350w) the RMi 850 is at ambient temp with fan on lowest rpm , and when its on silent mode and fan is off its above ambient by only 10C 

[LogicWeasel]

4 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

maybe a 9990xe with a 2080 ti,

I had to check and find out how close it gets:  A quick glance at anandtech's review of the 9990xe estimated the peak draw during a Cinebench R20 run to be about 330W from the CPU alone.

Tom's Hardware review of 2080 Ti Aorus xtreme stated about 324W peak draw.  So conceivably you're right that a 750w wouldn't hurt to have in that case but I would argue that a quality 650W (like an RM650i for example) would still not be overloaded so badly it would start to run into protections when the peak draw of those two things together could be as bad as 660W, but even if you throw some "in the case" extras in there, I doubt you'd really hit 740+ watts unless you forced the CPU to the edge of hell and back.

[LogicWeasel]

4 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

for example my pc is under gaming load (around 350w) the RMi 850 is at ambient temp with fan on lowest rpm , and when its on silent mode and fan is off its above ambient by only 10C 

but can you prove that wouldn't be the case with a lower rated RMi (like a 550 maybe) assuming it also had silent mode on in the same case?

[Mezoxin]

3 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

but can you prove that wouldn't be the case with a lower rated RMi (like a 550 maybe) assuming it also had silent mode on in the same case?

start at 10:45 

 

5 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

I had to check and find out how close it gets:  A quick glance at anandtech's review of the 9990xe estimated the peak draw during a Cinebench R20 run to be about 330W from the CPU alone.

Tom's Hardware review of 2080 Ti Aorus xtreme stated about 324W peak draw.  So conceivably you're right that a 750w wouldn't hurt to have in that case but I would argue that a quality 650W (like an RM650i for example) would still not be overloaded so badly it would start to run into protections when the peak draw of those two things together could be as bad as 660W, but even if you throw some "in the case" extras in there, I doubt you'd really hit 740+ watts unless you forced the CPU to the edge of hell and back.

but that would be pushing it too close on many aspects as the RMI 650 sadly only has one EPS connector 

[LogicWeasel]

6 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

but when it come to heat dissipation higher capacity PSU's have more/bigger components and heat sinks and more surface area thus better heat dissipation and less thermals for components

I more or less touched on that when I then stated in my later passage you did not quote: "a 550w PSU instead (assuming fans and cooling in case are equal) is not going to get any more hot"

 

I didn't directly touch on noise as a factor of that as that does get more complex as you note, but I did mention for coil whine (and essentially noise) to just check cybernetics as it'll do a better job covering that then I could (ofc).  For the class of unit that Meldarion is considering I doubt that a 550W RMx would sound like a hair dryer powering an RTX 2070 while gaming vs a 850W RMx (they both I would presume have similar/same fan and the 550W can't skimp on heat dissipation parts that much).

[LogicWeasel]

3 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

but that would be pushing it too close on many aspects as the RMI 650 sadly only has one EPS connector

I did say "for example" I didn't bother to check the model I named.  Feel free to substitute any quality 650W for the thought experiment, since yah know, we're not actually going to build the dang thing.

[LukeSavenije]

9 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

A quick glance at anandtech's review of the 9990xe estimated the peak draw during a Cinebench R20 run to be about 330W from the CPU alone.

then it was probably because i saw an early sample at derbauwer, which did iirc close to 500w

[Mezoxin]

14 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

I more or less touched on that when I then stated in my later passage you did not quote: "a 550w PSU instead (assuming fans and cooling in case are equal) is not going to get any more hot"

 

I didn't directly touch on noise as a factor of that as that does get more complex as you note, but I did mention for coil whine (and essentially noise) to just check cybernetics as it'll do a better job covering that then I could (ofc).  For the class of unit that Meldarion is considering I doubt that a 550W RMx would sound like a hair dryer powering an RTX 2070 while gaming vs a 850W RMx (they both I would presume have similar/same fan and the 550W can't skimp on heat dissipation parts that much).

basically a higher capacity psu of the same platform is designed to handle the heat generated from for example a sustained 1000 watt load  while keeping thermals at the same level with its lower capacity variant at max load , while both are using the same fan and same enclosure size , I am talking about the RMi here , by applying the same concept it would suggest that the higher wattage variant must operate at a lower temp than the lower wattage variant when both are running the same load. 

but that wasnt the reason i went for the 850w anyway , i just wanted the monitoring and multirail OCP and it was the only variant available at my lousy market and decently priced as well 

[LogicWeasel]

23 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

[a video about testing with a 1000W RMi]

start at 10:45 

Yes of course a 1000W under a much lower test-load is going to be quiet but that doesn't answer the question I posed.  You gave your own rig as an example, and I noted "but what about facts for if your rig had [lower wattage but same psu]".  I invited you to provide an apples to apples for the use-case you offered up for example so it could be more relevant to the discussion, but you did not provide facts to whether if you had a 550W it wouldn't be capable of entering silent mode (or at least quiet enough mode that it matters nothing for noise the fan is going, not the loudest thing in the PC by far).

 

 

I want to be clear here because I think you assume what my position incorrectly.  I fully acknowledge that a higher W PSU will be more quiet and in the video's extreme case, of course a 1000W PSU can operate silently on a 350W load.  What I'm getting at is, would it really be super loud, or need to run the fan "that much" if it a 550W RMi was at the same load.  I accept the idea the 750W unit would not need its fan to spin at all, whereas the other might need a bit of fan, but I don't expect the fan curve to hit max RPM.  I expect it to be super quiet fan operation or go into semi-passive for most of it.  I also noted that for the discussion the 550W would also have silent mode.

[Mezoxin]

7 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

Yes of course a 1000W under test-load is going to be quiet but that doesn't answer the question I posed.  You gave your own rig as an example, and I noted "but what about facts if your rig had [lower wattage but same psu].  I invited you to provide an apples to apples for the use-case you offered up for example so it could be more relevant to the discussion, but you did not provide facts to answer that invitation.

oh I see you mean how loud would a fan  be any way . well  all the FDB fans that corsair uses when they run they run at a minimum of 40% RPM while they are comparatively silent as you can see from cybenetics measurements but they are still audible from no fan operation at all 

 

also the fan curve is not only temp dependant its load dependant at 45% load starts kicking in at 40%RPM

[Tenma White]

8 hours ago, LogicWeasel said:

You need to stop overreacting to product ratings on a store page by the non-expertise public and should instead be focusing your attention to the facts that matter (the info put out by people who actually know the subject). 

 

When the common public (on Newegg, Amazon, etc) review a PSU product page most of them are either coming to complain that it didn't work (can sometimes be user error like trying to turn on PC without using CPU 4/8 pin plug and then claiming their PSU is bad) or note if it failed after a month or was DoA.  Those who didn't have those issues (the majority) are very underrepresented because few of them care enough to go to the page after they use the PSU and say "oh neat it worked and didn't start on fire, 5/5 stars!"

 

That's all there is to it.  You could have pulled the trigger on a PSU purchase by now (either the Gigabyte or the Corsair) if you stopped letting small stuff bother you like "oh no only 49 reviews on amazon for Gigabyte unit" (Cmon man the product clearly wasn't on the market for as long, not to mention you're in a smaller country than the USA ... and Gigabyte isn't a high volume PSU seller like a Corsair, of course they'll be less reviews).  Also you seem to keep mentioning that your expectations would be higher for an "80 Plus Gold" unit, when that really isn't even the top 5 important factors for choosing a PSU, do not get fixated on that, it really doesn't matter as much as you think.  Just find a PSU in your budget, that is considered not-terrible here and you can move on and get it.  Worrying about other stuff is a waste of time and posting.

  

The Gigabyte G750H fits the NZXT H210 right?

[Meldarion]

8 hours ago, LogicWeasel said:

That's a misunderstanding.  When a computer draws 350 Watts through a PSU, it's going to create heat based on that.  A 750w PSU doesn't magically create less heat than a 550w unit from that condition, it still follows laws of thermodynamics.  The more wattage that ends up as waste in a circuit (from inherent inefficiencies like resistance), the more heat, it's that simple.  A 550w PSU instead (assuming fans and cooling in case are equal) is not going to get any more hot or loud under that uniform load.  For concerns about coil whine I would direct you to the opinions mentioned by others about checking Cybernetics and overall just understanding that it happens to even the best of PSUs, coils whine, period.  As far as keeping the PSU working for a decade, if it's operating well under the heat limits for its internals (like not having derating at 40-50C or caps rated for 100C) than it won't horribly degrade, the end.  Doesn't guarantee it'll work perfectly for 10 years, but with any quality PSU its not unheard of so long as there isn't abuse.    Once again having a 550w unit vs a 750w doesn't magically make all those components last longer just because one unit is seeing avg loads around 54% and the other around 40%.

Nope, for your build a 550w would be more than fine, and a 650w would be the "super extra headroom" you've stated you would want.  The PSU wattage numbers of 850-750w you have presumed you want are "pie in the sky" territory reserved for crypto mining on 3+ GPUs or extreme LN2 OC stuff.  No single CPU + GPU + stuff in case combination adds up to needing 750w that I can conceivably think of.  Not unless you count running maybe an industrial thermal-electric cooler bigger than the one Linus tested in his experimental CPU cooling video.

So this website is pretty far off ? https://outervision.com/b/6XSJBj

[LogicWeasel]

4 minutes ago, Meldarion said:

So this website is pretty far off ? https://outervision.com/b/6XSJBj

It has been stated many times in this thread.  The outervision PSU calculator is NOT accurate.  It wildly over-estimates.