"Powerline is better than WiFi"

[Teched Out]

A quote from Linus, during the latest WAN Show (during super-chats).

 

Maybe investigating this would make for an interesting (and possibly enlightening?) video.

 

The last time I tried EOP devices, they were woeful. They topped out at 10MBps, despite being rated for 500mbps and would drop out constantly.

I then went to an AC WiFi setup, using a Netgear R8000, which has been much faster (20-40MBps) and more reliable. That is with sending the signal around a couple of corners with ~7m between the devices.

 

I believe EOP quality greatly depends on the quality of the electrical wiring. Our house is probably a few decades old so not new but also not ancient.

[Theguywhobea]

The first time I used powerline adapters they were trash. But when I used them more recently (in the same house) they were a big improvement over the WiFi. Particularly in ping stability in games.

[GrockleTD]

in my experience powerline has been vastly better than wifi

[Shreyas1]

Currently using powerline to write this, much better than wifi for me

 

but an ltt video would still be cool

[minibois]

10 minutes ago, CuRle_ said:

-snip-

Which is better will absolutely depend on the place you'll be deploying it, so if LTT makes a video out of this, I hope they are able to keep variables in check (e.g. distance, WiFi signals nearby and for powerline specifically the power grid it's going over).

 

In my experience, I have installed powerline adapters which would have improved the signal a lot more (e.g. when deploying them in an attic), but very often people just want more WiFi in their living room, at which point a simple extender could even work.

[SupaKomputa]

If your power installation is clean and free of noise, it would be better than wifi.

Wifi need non obstructive line of sight for optimal signal, and it the signal will degrade with distance.

For only 7m, why not just use lan cables.

[saladcrack]

Way better than wifi for me (mostly). I don't really see an upgrade in speed but definitely better ping and stability overall.

[porina]

I wonder how much the device you pick influences the results. Maybe I just had bad devices. Bad as in, not great, as oppose to faulty.

 

My only experience of powerline has pretty much put me off it forever. I was getting somewhat below 100mbit transfers, and it would randomly drop out for no explanation. Some random plugging/unplugging of them gets it going again, until it repeats. In the end I bought a 30m CAT5e cable, and that is nice reliable gigabit.

 

I was too lazy to set up a wifi bridge, but I have no problems with reception with mobile devices within my house. Using speedtest on my mobile phone right now I'm getting almost 200mbit down out of possible 360+. Up is limited by net connection. The only problem I had with wifi is my neighbourhood is saturated in 2.4g bands. So much nicer once I got 5g, which is still relatively unpopulated.

[SansVarnic]

I was impressed by powerline when I decided to try it a couple of years ago, almost comparable to ethernet. Then again my connection was all in the same circuit so it was a pretty clean connection. I remember the original powerline, it was horrible but the tech has come a long way and by vast improvement.

[samcool55]

Wifi isn't as reliable as powerlines but it is more consistent.

With powerlines it's always a guess. I for example cannot use powerlines at all because our wiring is completely messed up. I tried it and it detected the powerlines of one of our neighbours, connected with it and my modem basically went "well screw this take their internet" so it did and I basically hijacked their internet...

I mean I found their printer, printed "who dis, call me" and my number and that's how we figured out who's network it was...

[SansVarnic]

8 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

<snip> I tried it and it detected the powerlines of one of our neighbours, connected with it and my modem basically went "well screw this take their internet" so it did and I basically hijacked their internet...

I mean I found their printer, printed "who dis, call me" and my number and that's how we figured out who's network it was...

Sad... but funny. 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

I use a powerline to go from the 2nd floor (where the entry point and the modem are) to the 1st floor (where the router, wireless AP and PCs are).  

The electrical system is still the original from when the house was built (right after WW II).  I only have a 30Mbit plan with my ISP, but have tested and verified that I get the full 300mbps from the adapters with zero packet loss (by plugging in a laptop upstairs and transferring data to and from the PC). 

 

Only had an issue once, when one of the adapters died on me after almost 6 years of 24/7 use.

That being said, I'm not sure if I'd put a powerline between for example my NAS and the rest of my network.  You just can't beat Ethernet for that kind of important connection.

[Worstcaster]

1 hour ago, Caroline said:

The devices are rated for 500Mbps but it all depends on the wiring, if it's new and tidy it'll probably work fine but if it's old and messy it won't, I mean good luck trying to use a powerline adapter on an installation that's 80 years old

 

Ethernet is better than both.

Guess I better stick to Wifi then.  My house was built in 1885.  

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, CuRle_ said:

 

I believe EOP quality greatly depends on the quality of the electrical wiring. Our house is probably a few decades old so not new but also not ancient.

Oh certainly. 

 

1) How long the wires are, EOP is basically just the same mechanism that RF Coax and Wireless use. You'll see things like QAM and OFDM mentioned in all three. As of 2014 all equipment standardized on G.hn (we hope), and in 2016 standards, can do signals over all wires (MIMO.)

2) Since the basis is still RF, that means it's susceptible to noise sources. Motors on the same circuit will almost certainly generate noise.

 

Older homes (eg pre-80's) have fuses in a fuse box somewhere, and may have aluminum wiring. Buildings built after 1980 almost certainly use copper wiring and circuit breakers, and any circuit intended to have more than 15A will usually have just one outlet on it. (Such as individual outlets in the kitchen.) Homes wired this way actually have two 120v buses, and usually everything on the left side of the panel is the first bus, and everything on the right is the second bus. If there are multiple breaker boxes, it may also mean that that split continues. Only a dryer or oven will use both circuits simultaneously. This means that everything running EOP should be on the same bus, since they only share the neutral/ground.

 

source: https://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2013/02/05/feature_powerline_networking_the_next_generation/

 

Which means, that if you're going to deploy Ethernet over Power, you want the G.hn equipment, since it can can operate on neutral/ground.

 

Now ask yourself, how does EOP not jump onto your neighbors EOP?

 

It doesn't. The only thing keeping you from accessing your neighbor's network is lack of a physical connection between the two (an air gap.) So in a large, dense city, G.hn is probably not what you want to use, at least not over the power lines. Using it over existing coax or phone lines may be the better option. Like WiFi, there are security mechanisms, but it's not like you are going to be prompted for a WPA2 password when you plug in a device.

 

[Zodiark1593]

While I'm glad that WiFi has been improving speed lately with the 5 GHz frequencies and above, I'd really like a specialty long range wifi solution that utilizes a lower frequency (if only the FCC would agree). Depending on the home (older, expansive homes in particular), getting good enough speed (50-100mbps is plenty for a couple 4k netflix streams), but excellent consistency and simple setup would be a major boon. At the very least, dropping even a bit below that 2.4 GHz band maintains range, while reducing interference from other appliances and wireless devices.