PCIe 4.0 on ASUS X470 & B450

[justpoet]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

And the fact it kind of destroys the idea that X570 needs to be expensive because of PCIe 4 doesn't have anything to do with it at all.

Well, if you take a step back and look, it really is accurate.  X570 boards support full speed/bandwidth PCIE4 throughout, including x16.  These older boards that are well made might support up to x8 on a single CPU connected slot.  So, there's still a big difference there, and it would definitely come down to board quality (and therefor price) as well as chipset support.  Throw in generally much better VRMs across the board, and now your X570 premium makes more sense.  There are some "cheaper" X570 boards as well.  MB makers just know that the people who are likely to not get the more premium X570 ones are more likely to go grab a 470/450 for lower cost anyway.

[Master Disaster]

10 minutes ago, justpoet said:

Well, if you take a step back and look, it really is accurate.  X570 boards support full speed/bandwidth PCIE4 throughout, including x16.  These older boards that are well made might support up to x8 on a single CPU connected slot.  So, there's still a big difference there, and it would definitely come down to board quality (and therefor price) as well as chipset support.  Throw in generally much better VRMs across the board, and now your X570 premium makes more sense.  There are some "cheaper" X570 boards as well.  MB makers just know that the people who are likely to not get the more premium X570 ones are more likely to go grab a 470/450 for lower cost anyway.

Which is fine for your techie minded LTT type user but expecting average Joe to understand that X570 is more expensive because it can do something that X470 can also do only better is a bit of a stretch.

 

I fully understand AMD not wanting the confusion but I also can't help but suspect there is also money involved in the decision too, I mean AMD are a business after all.

 

Give average Joe a choice of more expensive and faster or cheaper and slower most would pick the second option every time.

 

Edit - Case in point, look at the tags for this very topic LMAO

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

And the fact it kind of destroys the idea that X570 needs to be expensive because of PCIe 4 doesn't have anything to do with it at all.

 

Also AMD did forbid it...

This is the statement from AMDs Ryzen Product Manager. It's pretty definitive, it won't be happening.

And yet they didn't. What they said was basically what I literally just said. They won't officially support but that is not the same as forbidding motherboard manufacturers from doing so on there own. 

[Master Disaster]

47 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

And yet they didn't. What they said was basically what I literally just said. They won't officially support but that is not the same as forbidding motherboard manufacturers from doing so on there own. 

Quote

When final BIOSes are released for 3rd Gen Ryzen (AGESA 1000+), Gen4 will not be an option anymore. We wish we could've enabled this backwards, but the risk is too gr eat.

Sounds pretty definitive to me....

[Blademaster91]

Sounds more like AMD is just wanting to sell more expensive X570 mobos, even though the average Joe wouldn't benefit from having PCIe 4.0, as the only feature is faster storage. And overclockers aren't getting that much more out of Ryzen 3000 on X570 unless LN2 is used.

[Brooksie359]

7 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Sounds pretty definitive to me....

No they said their bios wont support it. They never said that motherboard manufacturers couldn't release their own motherboard bios that support it. 

[Dabombinable]

7 hours ago, huilun02 said:

I'm using the X470 Prime and its nice to see free upgrades

Although I'm worried if this will blow up the chipset controller or something

On X570 they needed a fan for cooling?

The need for a fan is a whole lot of BS. The X570 chipset when paired with a plain old aluminium heatsink, similar to what you find on budget LGA775 motherboards, hovers at around 70^oC. PCIe gen 4.0 doesn't actually increase heat output either - X570 has its "high" power draw coming from other areas.

[Drak3]

32 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

as the only feature is faster storage.

1080Ti and higher cards are the starting point where PCIe 3.0 x8 is a bottleneck in gaming, so anyone running multiple GPUs will benefit from either moving to x16 or 4.0.

[Master Disaster]

34 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

No they said their bios wont support it. They never said that motherboard manufacturers couldn't release their own motherboard bios that support it. 

Actually they said AGESA won't support it and AGESA is their firmware that's written into every BIOS.

[kalnick]

8 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Which is fine for your techie minded LTT type user but expecting average Joe to understand that X570 is more expensive because it can do something that X470 can also do only better is a bit of a stretch.

 

I fully understand AMD not wanting the confusion but I also can't help but suspect there is also money involved in the decision too, I mean AMD are a business after all.

 

Give average Joe a choice of more expensive and faster or cheaper and slower most would pick the second option every time.

 

Edit - Case in point, look at the tags for this very topic LMAO

 X470/B450 chipsets  do not support PCIE gen 4. Lets clear that up.

This only says that some x470/B450 BOARDS will support gen 4, it does not say chipsets.

 

The Ryzen 3000 I/O chiplet in the cpu supports PCIE gen 4.

Assuming the signal quality is good enough your good to go.

This is also why its is only the 2 slots that can support it as they are connected directly to the CPU I/O die.

 

X570 chipset does support pcie4.0 because it is the exact same I/O die that is in the Ryzen 3000 cpus. X570 board have 2 I/O chips essentially.

 

[thorhammerz]

9 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

expecting average Joe to understand that X570 is more expensive because it can do something that X470 can also do only better is a bit of a stretch.

Your average joe isn't building their own PCs to begin with (much less understanding or caring what's in the case to begin with outside the GPU SKU) - they're heading over the Best Buy / Dell / <insert OEM> to pick up whatever happens to be on sale.

[mariushm]

1 hour ago, kalnick said:

X570 chipset does support pcie4.0 because it is the exact same I/O die that is in the Ryzen 3000 cpus. X570 board have 2 I/O chips essentially. 

It's not same die in cpu and chipset, chipset has larger die with more stuff in it.

But yeah, both do pci-e 4.0

[appleache]

updates:https://www.anandtech.com/show/14639/no-amd-still-isnt-enabling-pcie-4-on-300400-series-boards

 

this is my comment down in their comment section for dis matter

Quote

I think it is more likely to give mb company a fair playground, since not all x470/450 are build equally, so some company opt to use better pcb, wiring(like asus) will have advantage give almost all their board pcie4 while others cannot. it kinda like review imbargo, make it somewhat a fair play.

6

6

I dont think it is gonna happen unless they got huge pushback

[Trixanity]

2 hours ago, mariushm said:

It's not same die in cpu and chipset, chipset has larger die with more stuff in it.

But yeah, both do pci-e 4.0

 

 

[leadeater]

12 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

This is the statement from AMDs Ryzen Product Manager. It's pretty definitive, it won't be happening.

Could be a case of board vendors investigating whether to override, change, the support status of PCIe 4.0 on their boards as they see fit. AMD may be shipping AGESA with it off by default for those chipsets but unless it's protected or support is voided there wouldn't be anything to stop turning it on. I really don't see the point though, it's not something we need or want until such time that being on AM4 would mean you have a rather old system anyway.

[Soppro]

How are they going to handle the higher power requirement? I don't think any X470 or B450 board has active cooling, so that might throttle some stuff 

[williamcll]

I have the TUF X470, the lack of PCIE4 support for the M2 slot makes no sense to me.

[Dabombinable]

6 minutes ago, williamcll said:

I have the TUF X470, the lack of PCIE4 support for the M2 slot makes no sense to me.

Well if the slot doesn't connect via the CPU's lanes, of course the m.2 slot isn't gen 4.0

 

And looking At it's webpage, they might mean the PCH m.2 slot.

 

Edit: On another note, that 'TUF' motherboard looks a bit terrible compared to previous generations (eg. LGA 1150 & AM3+. TUF series boards).

[williamcll]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Well if the slot doesn't connect via the CPU's lanes, of course the m.2 slot isn't gen 4.0

 

And looking t it's webpage, they might mean the PCH m.2 slot.

That's annoying, what about the second PCIE slot?

[JoostinOnline]

23 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

Sounds like another case of "8th gen Intel cant run on Z270 boards" to me

Except AMD was honest about it. A lot of where the controversy came from was Intel saying that it was impossible, when it turned out that it was just more work. Even though it sucks that AMD is pushing against any older boards getting PCIe 4.0 support, they were honest about their reasons. It also helps that, true or not, they're generally considered more "consumer friendly" compared to Intel.

[Dabombinable]

4 minutes ago, williamcll said:

That's annoying, what about the second PCIE slot?

I'd say no as well since the first m.2 runs off the CPU and there is no SLI. As stated in my edit, the board looks terrible compared (to clarify, spec wise) to previous ones from the series.

[JoostinOnline]

18 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I fully understand AMD not wanting the confusion but I also can't help but suspect there is also money involved in the decision too, I mean AMD are a business after all. 

Confusion can lead to less money. Because of how they've done this, if there are any problems with the older boards running gen 4, people won't blame AMD at all for it.

[MadmanRB]

25 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Confusion can lead to less money. Because of how they've done this, if there are any problems with the older boards running gen 4, people won't blame AMD at all for it.

Indeed, i was going to make a really long reply here but i kind of agree with AMD not giving full support for PCIE4 on older motherboards as its probably more out of caution then anything, dont want a perfectly working motherboard to get fried due to having something run on it that its not supposed to run.

This is not at al like what happened with Intel and the bull that went  on there, we are talking about PCIE 4 vs 3 which have different traces and connectors not to mention some motherboards dont have really that great chipset cooling.

Its best to let the vendors decide here as AMD's caution is likely justified.

[Anomnomnomaly]

Is this really new information?

 

The reason I ask is because a couple of months ago, it was noticed that Gigabyte  updated their BIOS's to get them ready for Ryzen 3xxx and many of us noticed that there was a new option for Gen 4 PCIE.

 

I can confirm that it's there on my Aorus Pro B450 on the F40 BIOS.

[Loote]

I assume that if the motherboard has PCI lanes straight from CPU and works with a 1m raiser on PCI-E 3, then without raiser PCI-E 4 should work just as well.

 

Remember the video where Linus connected as many raisers as he could until it didn't work? I'm interested how it'd look with PCI-E 4.