Amd radeon VII

[riklaunim]

2 minutes ago, SSJGodemis said:

Gaming is not a small market.

If you add consoles, mining from last year and stuff like that then yes, it's not so small. But if you exclude that then it's quite small and not very future proof when compared to currently rising markets. It's a sort of a halo market, and if they tell investors that they will be only making best consumer gaming GPUs then investors will say "meh" - stable company but without any rapid growth potential. There is a reason why Nvidia, a company that makes gaming graphics cards and is pretty much a synonym of it - is making and promoting a lot chips for self driving cars, datacenter and machine learning parts, even mobile chips, like the one from Nintendo Switch. 2080 Ti maybe the fastest graphics card but they will sell and likely earn more money on GTX 1160 followed by RTX 2060, just like with 1060. Consoles still have GPUs in them but it's not unrealistic that console of generation +2 or +3 will run the game in their clouds and stream it to your console via a fast, low latency connection. GPUs in those clouds will be a bigger profit.

 

And as big chips are expensive and hard to make both companies are thinking how to use chiplets for GPUs, both companies published papers on that topic. The problem is that compute workloads would adapt rather easily while gaming would be screwed as chiplet based GPU ideas as of now aren't very backward compatible. And Intel is also on the chiplet technology, just like other less known companies. Intel likes servers due to high margins. Chiplet high performance compute/machine learning part is what they dream of.

[Chett_Manly]

My other big thought on Radeon VII is what is AMD going to do next year? Nvidia can simply move to a 7nm process and gain that 25%+ that AMD was bragging about today. AMD will need a completely new architecture that delivers a 25%+ performance boost to be able to compete with Nvidia just producing 7nm Turing cards. 

 

And Intel will be entering the market.

 

This is not looking good for AMD. If you cannot catch up with the process advantage where are you going to be without it?

[SSJGodemis]

1 minute ago, Chett_Manly said:

My other big thought on Radeon VII is what is AMD going to do next year? Nvidia can simply move to a 7nm process and gain that 25%+ that AMD was bragging about today. AMD will need a completely new architecture that delivers a 25%+ performance boost to be able to compete with Nvidia just producing 7nm Turing cards. 

 

And Intel will be entering the market.

 

This is not looking good for AMD. If you cannot catch up with the process advantage where are you going to be without it?

7nm is expensive to move to. Nvidia will wait now. They have no rush. They are leading the market, have nullified Free-Sync only for AMD support, and offer Ray Tracing and DLSS.  Nvidia will wait till 7nm is more affordable for them to produce newer GPUs in 2020 likely now. 

[riklaunim]

5 minutes ago, Chett_Manly said:

This is not looking good for AMD. If you cannot catch up with the process advantage where are you going to be without it?

Radeon will be the mid-range card. They can unveil something groudbreaking like a massive Navi part, but still - AMD won't and likely isn't planning to fight to the death for top GPU performance. They burned them selves to many times trying.

 

Quote

Nvidia will wait till 7nm is more affordable for them to produce newer GPUs in 2020 likely now. 

As rumors say they picked Samsung 7nm EUV, which likely give products by 2020. Something like 7nm+ from TSMC. Plus RTX chips are huge, very early-7nm-unfriendly.

[Shogunluffy_1982]

not everyone buys a 2080ti for sure just got a 1060 not long ago from r7 265 but before that I got a system fx8320 990fx r9 290 sold it so I know some peoples that still got hd 7850  for gaming and one guy I know has a 1050ti so not all are rich that play on the pc and not needing to get a big gpu and not everyone are willing to spend a lot on a computer that still want to game.

[Chett_Manly]

2 minutes ago, SSJGodemis said:

7nm is expensive to move to. Nvidia will wait now. They have no rush. They are leading the market, have nullified Free-Sync only for AMD support, and offer Ray Tracing and DLSS.  Nvidia will wait till 7nm is more affordable for them to produce newer GPUs in 2020 likely now. 

I was talking about 2020, next year is 2020. And from the looks of it they already have gotten Samsung signed up to do 7nm with.

 

So I totally agree with you. Expect 7nm Nvidia parts next year, and them to fill out the low end 2000 series this year. 

 

[SSJGodemis]

Just now, Chett_Manly said:

I was talking about 2020, next year is 2020. And from the looks of it they already have gotten Samsung signed up to do 7nm with.

 

So I totally agree with you. Expect 7nm Nvidia parts next year, and them to fill out the low end 2000 series this year. 

 

Bro, I literally forgot it as 2019 loll. I say 7nm mid to late 2020. 

[Chett_Manly]

5 minutes ago, riklaunim said:

Radeon will be the mid-range card. They can unveil something groudbreaking like a massive Navi part, but still - AMD won't and likely isn't planning to fight to the death for top GPU performance. They burned them selves to many times trying.

Are we really at the point where a $700 card is mid-range? 

 

And with that massive amount of HBM on it I would be amazed if AMD can lower the price much with that design. 

 

Navi still has some hope behind it as a potential 2060 competitor though. So maybe they can at least replace the 590 this year with a meaningful upgrade and push performance per dollar forward.

[Princess Luna]

10 minutes ago, Brass_01 said:

.

It's not about being rich though, you could have bought a 1080 Ti for 600 dollars in late 2017, which is a card that's still considered high end 4k ready...

 

AMD Closest competition will be this Radeon 7nm coming for about 700ish while nVidia is charging the 800+ dollars for the RTX 2080 that offers much of the same.

 

So sometimes doing a smart purchase even if more expensive will pay off in the long run as you'll retain extremely high performance even when next gens come around eliminating the necessity of an upgrade...

 

Then again it's up to you have means to afford it when timing is right, I know that's not every one's reality... and for that we fall down to the old truth... most GPUs nowadays are perfectly good for gaming, actually a 1060, RX 570... all cards you can find under 200 dollars are more than enough for 1080p gaming.

 

If you adjust your graphical settings accordingly you can game at 1440p, ultrawide resolutions and 4k perfectly comfortably without breaking the bank... just stop the pointless Ultra settings chase:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[riklaunim]

5 minutes ago, Chett_Manly said:

Are we really at the point where a $700 card is mid-range? 

Vega and Radeon 7 aren't mid range, that's "top of the line" for AMD for the enthusiast market. RX 480/580/590 replacement in the $200-250...300? bracket and lower will be the mainstream. Plus two large console platforms

[Shogunluffy_1982]

never buy when it just comes out or not long after sometime I screw it up like when I bought my card the rtx came out but mine still works fine im on a budget but I need to be ahead this time yeah ultra setting hard on the machine for sure but my 1060 still pushing 100+ giga pixel 170+ giga texel not bad for a 1060 but thing is some setting hard on the vram too that's a part where the upgrade to 8gb cards come...

 

[Shogunluffy_1982]

that high bandwidth cache amd had was interesting but don't mean mutch if gpu not up to par in the end?

[Mira Yurizaki]

Oh, I found out there's an RTX 2080 for $700: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P4-2080-KR

 

Yeah, this really puts a damper on the Radeon VII if it performs 25% better than Vega 64.

[i_build_nanosuits]

1 hour ago, Brass_01 said:

So what you peoples thinks about this new amd vega 2nd gen 7nm...?

it looks like it's a 699$ GTX 1080ti...not interested.

[SSJGodemis]

5 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Oh, I found out there's an RTX 2080 for $700: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P4-2080-KR

 

Yeah, this really puts a damper on the Radeon VII if it performs 25% better than Vega 64.

Yeah, though I dont think this one OC's as well as the more expensive 2080s. 

[aRealCyborg]

I like the GPU but it is to pricey

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, SSJGodemis said:

Yeah, though I dont think this one OC's as well as the more expensive 2080s. 

I'm not expecting it to, but that doesn't preclude the fact that you can buy an RTX 2080 for $700.

[jasonvp]

It doesn't sound like Jensen was too impressed.

 

https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/09/nvidia-ceo-rival-amds-graphics-chip-performance-is-underwhelming/

 

 

[Princess Luna]

Just now, jasonvp said:

It doesn't sound like Jensen was too impressed.

 

https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/09/nvidia-ceo-rival-amds-graphics-chip-performance-is-underwhelming/

Probably because Navi didn't "Just Works"

[Chett_Manly]

1 minute ago, jasonvp said:

It doesn't sound like Jensen was too impressed.

 

https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/09/nvidia-ceo-rival-amds-graphics-chip-performance-is-underwhelming/

 

 

If I was him I'd be popping the champagne! Nvidia is still on top, even when his competitor beat them to 7nm.

[SolarNova]

So taking AMD's keynote with a pinch of salt, as u can garantee the performance shown is slanted in favor of AMD,  ....im stilled happy.

 

Ryzen 3000, that chip looks to be a 3600 ..probably the X vairent. Clocks unknown but 'should' be close to retail.

Matching a 9900k .. thats great. AMD is now there competeing with Intel on per core performance ..that is asuming no drastic difference in clock speeds used in that keynote.

 

Radeon 7.

Hmm , not so enthusastic with this one. At 1st i was happy, 2080 performance (probably slightly slower in actuality, but close enough) .. but then the price ..oh dear ..$700,  i was expecting $450-$550 at most. I expect this is down to the large amount of HBM2 being used, and Nvidia price gouging, which is a shame ..but vega 2 being shown of instead of Navi wasnt unexpected.

 

Still, AMD atleast having a GPU that can compete with the 1080ti/2080 finaly is still a good thing, puts atleast some pressure on Nvidia, though it would have been a whole lot more pressure if the price wasnt so damn high.

[Shogunluffy_1982]

699 us half of this goes for the 16gb hbm2...

[Jon Jon]

It's funny, as someone who has been Team Red for 9 years now with graphics cards, I may finally jump to NVIDIA again strictly because of Freesync support.

 

I have the itch to upgrade again now that VR games are becoming even more taxing and I'd like to game at the native refresh rate of my monitor with no compromises.

 

It's been a year and a half since I got my RX 580, and there is still no worthy AMD upgrade in sight.

 

I want to be excited for Radeon 7, but I doubt it'll be widely available at its price point, and if it isn't coming with any new tech, then it makes more sense to go to NVIDIA and at least be ready for next gen Oculus with the VR LINK port.

 

This is looking to be very disappointing, especially based on the conversation going on here.

[pstarlord]

I know I'm getting in pretty late to the party on this, but here's my general thought on the RVII.

 

1-Vega cards are built like tanks.  Just watching GN videos on the Vega 56 and 64 they constantly talk about how overbuilt the VRMs and other components are, making it great for overclocking.  Personally, I like that.  There is a reason that for quite a long time, Steve at GN and many other people pointed to the Vega 56 as one of the best options because of how far it could be overclocked.  If the RVII has anywhere near the overclock-ability of the other Vega cards, then it should be able to be taken closer to the 2080TI.  I doubt it'll be able to beat the 2080TI, but even if it's like...90% of what the 2080TI is at half the price, I think it's a great option.  

 

2-I read that AMD will be exclusively selling the RVII.  Third party manufacturers will not making their variants, so the FE is THE model.  I think this could end up being great for consumers if the stock cooling solution works well.  Just think about all the 3rd party cards, and their insane prices.  There are third party 2080TI cards selling for like $1800, and 2080 cards selling for $1500 on newegg right now.  The most expensive Vega 64 sells for under $800. (I'm not at all comparing the performance of a V64 to a 2080 series card, its just the top pricing of current models from both companies.)  If the MSRP of the RVII is accurate, and that's what it stays at, then you'll be getting the best option available for like 1/3 of the price of the top end Nvidia card.  Everyone always talks about launch price MSRP of the FE cards from Nvidia, but a majority of the systems with 2000 series Nvidia cards I see are not founders editions, so people are paying much more for them than MSRP. 

 

3-I was playing Resident Evil II Remake the other day, and in the settings it tells you how much RAM will potentially be used depending on the settings you chose, and its' pretty easy to get it pushed to the high 6G close to 7G of RAM.  16G is obviously a TON of RAM, but many people, Linus included, have been saying that games will very quickly be passing the 8G threshold of required RAM, and if RE2 is any indication of how close games are getting then I'd be inclined to believe him.  While, a typical gamer will probably never need 16Gigs, it's nice to have more than not enough IMO. 

 

4-I don't think it's a false statement to say that many people building their systems on AMD platforms are typically going for a price to performance kind of build.  So, getting a card that can potentially sit in the top 2 or 3 overall of available cards, at a price 1/2 the price of the top consumer card...that sounds really appealing.  At a certain point, it'll probably come down to brand loyalty on if someone prefers the RVII or a 2080 because it seems like they are going to perform pretty similar at a similar price.  

 

5-The whole "it doesn't have Ray Tracing" thing is annoying.  Ray Tracing isn't used by a vaaaast majority of people with RTX cards, and isn't implemented in very many games to even use it on.  The counter to that is always, that AMD is using HBM2 RAM, hiking up the cost.  The way I see it, with both products you're overpaying for tech, at least in the AMD card you overpaying for tech that you'll actually use.  I'd rather overpay for 16 Gigs of HBM2 RAM, than overpay for a tech that I won't even turn on.  When the 11 series Nvidia cards start coming it, it may change the story, but until then, that's how it is for me anyway. 

 

6-I am a little bit concerned by reports I've read that AMD will only be making quite a limited amount of the RVII and that it's essentially a stop gap product until Navi is ready to launch either later this year or early 2020.  That does make it seem like the RVII might not have been completely thought out, and is pretty much just a way to show the simple improvement they can get just by switching to the 7nm manufacturing. 

 

All that being said, right now, its a hurry up and wait situation.  I'm waiting for the review videos to come out, and then I'll decide if I get one or not.  

[SSJGodemis]

14 minutes ago, pstarlord said:

I know I'm getting in pretty late to the party on this, but here's my general thought on the RVII.

 

1-Vega cards are built like tanks.  Just watching GN videos on the Vega 56 and 64 they constantly talk about how overbuilt the VRMs and other components are, making it great for overclocking.  Personally, I like that.  There is a reason that for quite a long time, Steve at GN and many other people pointed to the Vega 56 as one of the best options because of how far it could be overclocked.  If the RVII has anywhere near the overclock-ability of the other Vega cards, then it should be able to be taken closer to the 2080TI.  I doubt it'll be able to beat the 2080TI, but even if it's like...90% of what the 2080TI is at half the price, I think it's a great option.  

 

2-I read that AMD will be exclusively selling the RVII.  Third party manufacturers will not making their variants, so the FE is THE model.  I think this could end up being great for consumers if the stock cooling solution works well.  Just think about all the 3rd party cards, and their insane prices.  There are third party 2080TI cards selling for like $1800, and 2080 cards selling for $1500 on newegg right now.  The most expensive Vega 64 sells for under $800. (I'm not at all comparing the performance of a V64 to a 2080 series card, its just the top pricing of current models from both companies.)  If the MSRP of the RVII is accurate, and that's what it stays at, then you'll be getting the best option available for like 1/3 of the price of the top end Nvidia card.  Everyone always talks about launch price MSRP of the FE cards from Nvidia, but a majority of the systems with 2000 series Nvidia cards I see are not founders editions, so people are paying much more for them than MSRP. 

 

3-I was playing Resident Evil II Remake the other day, and in the settings it tells you how much RAM will potentially be used depending on the settings you chose, and its' pretty easy to get it pushed to the high 6G close to 7G of RAM.  16G is obviously a TON of RAM, but many people, Linus included, have been saying that games will very quickly be passing the 8G threshold of required RAM, and if RE2 is any indication of how close games are getting then I'd be inclined to believe him.  While, a typical gamer will probably never need 16Gigs, it's nice to have more than not enough IMO. 

 

4-I don't think it's a false statement to say that many people building their systems on AMD platforms are typically going for a price to performance kind of build.  So, getting a card that can potentially sit in the top 2 or 3 overall of available cards, at a price 1/2 the price of the top consumer card...that sounds really appealing.  At a certain point, it'll probably come down to brand loyalty on if someone prefers the RVII or a 2080 because it seems like they are going to perform pretty similar at a similar price.  

 

5-The whole "it doesn't have Ray Tracing" thing is annoying.  Ray Tracing isn't used by a vaaaast majority of people with RTX cards, and isn't implemented in very many games to even use it on.  The counter to that is always, that AMD is using HBM2 RAM, hiking up the cost.  The way I see it, with both products you're overpaying for tech, at least in the AMD card you overpaying for tech that you'll actually use.  I'd rather overpay for 16 Gigs of HBM2 RAM, than overpay for a tech that I won't even turn on.  When the 11 series Nvidia cards start coming it, it may change the story, but until then, that's how it is for me anyway. 

 

6-I am a little bit concerned by reports I've read that AMD will only be making quite a limited amount of the RVII and that it's essentially a stop gap product until Navi is ready to launch either later this year or early 2020.  That does make it seem like the RVII might not have been completely thought out, and is pretty much just a way to show the simple improvement they can get just by switching to the 7nm manufacturing. 

 

All that being said, right now, its a hurry up and wait situation.  I'm waiting for the review videos to come out, and then I'll decide if I get one or not.  

Vega are in no way great overclocking unless you under volt the cards. Even then you are limited. In the same video even with an OC'd Vega 56 it was trading blows with an OCD RTX 2060 and drawing more heat and power.  It was Steve at his most biased I have ever seen. 

 

The RE2 Built in VRAM usage is inaccurate as shown by digital foundry. I am running a RTX 2080 Ti and shows I am using 13gb of Vram in game at 4k everything at high(8x) but in RTSS its really only at 7.5GB.   Thats why I am still pushing over 70fps most of the game. 

 

You will never use 16GB of VRAM at the performance level of the 7. The card will hit its limit before it can reach its VRAM limit. 

 

Finally, if you dont care about hybrid rendering(see Wolfenstein 2), ray tracing and DLSS you still get all of this for the same price as AMD cards.  The RTX 2060 is the same price as the Vega 56, performs very similar in normal 3d gaming but offers more features for the future. Same goes for the RTX 2070 vs Vega 64 and now the Radeon 7 vs RTX 2080. 

 

The only way AMD would be considered a good value is if the card was less money than its competition which its not.