Amd radeon VII

[Shogunluffy_1982]

So what you peoples thinks about this new amd vega 2nd gen 7nm...?

[lmeneses]

I'm excited, cant wait to see actual benchmark videos. Hopefully AMD's new GPUs and CPUs will bring down Nvidia's and Intel's high pricing

[SSJGodemis]

The reference design looks good. 

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13832/amd-radeon-vii-high-end-7nm-february-7th-for-699 

 

It looks like it will compete with the RTX 2080/1080 Ti for the same MSRP. This is not great. For the same price you can get RTX/DLSS through Nvidia. This is pretty disappointing.  If it competes with the RTX 2080 Ti which is pretty unlikely, then this would be a fantastic deal if you did not care about RTX and DLSS. 

 

 ng. 

[Stormseeker9]

$699 MSRP. 16GB HBM 1TB/s bandwith. Holy crap.

 

 

but She also mentioned that its for perfect for content creation I believe something along those lines. She compared it to the RTX 2080 and it had near similar FPS on 4K on 2 of the 3 games, and one of 'm it had like 40FPS more. Cant remember the games

 

[lmeneses]

3 minutes ago, SSJGodemis said:

The reference design looks good. 

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13832/amd-radeon-vii-high-end-7nm-february-7th-for-699 

 

It looks like it will compete with the RTX 2080/1080 Ti for the same MSRP. This is not great. For the same price you can get RTX/DLSS through Nvidia. 

I think it is a bit more powerful than the 2080 and 1080ti lol

[Mira Yurizaki]

The $699 initial price tag for 25% more performance over Vega 64, according to AMD's slides, is a tough sell. The GTX 1080 Ti offered a better price/performance ratio. Though I'd argue in this case it's because of AMD going to 7nm. 7nm has been an expensive endeavor for both semiconductor fabricators and chip designers.

[SSJGodemis]

2 minutes ago, lmeneses said:

I think it is a bit more powerful than the 2080 and 1080ti lol

Well that is incorrect. They directly compare it to the 2080.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/9/18175493/amd-announces-radeon-vii-next-generation-graphics-gpu

[lmeneses]

4 minutes ago, SSJGodemis said:

Well that is incorrect. They directly compare it to the 2080.

  

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/9/18175493/amd-announces-radeon-vii-next-generation-graphics-gpu

 Yea, it is not that much more powerful, but you you get double the vram of a 2080 and thats just one plus of the vii

[Princess Luna]

11 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

The $699 initial price tag for 25% more performance over Vega 64, according to AMD's slides, is a tough sell. The GTX 1080 Ti offered a better price/performance ratio.

Basically AMD will finally release a competitor to the GTX 1080 Ti, at the same price point, whose performance is around since 2016 with the TITAN X Pascal.

 

All nVidia had to do was finally allow FreeSync support to make AMD's 7nm product line feel rather meh...

[beavo451]

11 minutes ago, lmeneses said:

 Yea, it is not that much more powerful, but you you get double the vram of a 2080 and thats just one plus of the vii

And what, precisely, does double the VRAM give you?

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Basically AMD will finally release a competitor to the GTX 1080 Ti, at the same price point, whose performance is around since 2016 with the TITAN X Pascal.

 

All nVidia had to do was finally allow FreeSync support to make AMD's 7nm product line feel rather meh...

The base MSRP of the GTX 1080 Ti was $650. So technically...

 

But yeah, the Radeon VII appears to be an evolutionary upgrade. I didn't see anything else they were adding to the table other than better numbers on the spec sheet. What I feel is the problem is AMD is still trying the "jack of all trades" approach with a single design as much as possible.

 

2 minutes ago, beavo451 said:

And what, precisely, does double the VRAM give you?

For gaming, the only thing purely affected by VRAM is how much textures you can store on the video card. Outside of that, everything else that eats appreciably into the VRAM budget (rendering resolution, MSAA/FSAA, shadows, reflections) also requires additional GPU power to keep performance the same.

[Quadriplegic]

Big meh. 


But could it be something like Vega FE? It had 16GB of HBM2 too, if I remember right. SO is it possible that AMD will release cards with less VRAM at lower price point?

[beavo451]

Audience reception was meh also lol.

 

"25%" better at the same power (which means it still draws a ton of power).

[Princess Luna]

Just now, beavo451 said:

AAnd what, precisely, does double the VRAM give you?

At gaming? Nothing.

 

There are hardware acceleration tasks on content creation, deep learning, calculus, OpenCL etc etc where the extra VRAM with such a wide bus will be very beneficial, also at Etherium mining.... but let's be honest here majority of people still do buy these for gaming any ways.

 

2 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

The MSRP of the GTX 1080 Ti was $650. So technically...

True enough the 1080 Ti really was pretty much a Christmas miracle by nVidia, awesome performance for a fair price? we don't see that any more...

 

4 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

What I feel is the problem is AMD is still trying the "jack of all trades" approach with a single design as much as possible.

I agree with you that's what they are up to, then again I don't think they have much of a choice... $ is always too short.

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

True enough the 1080 Ti really was pretty much a Christmas miracle by nVidia, awesome performance for a fair price? we don't see that any more...

I don't think anything will ever beat the 8800 GT 512MB though. A $250 card that performs as good and sometimes better than the $500 card? Wot? Though I heard the 8800 GT 256MB was no slouch either at lower resolutions and it was $50 cheaper.

 

Quote

I agree with you that's what they are up to, then again I don't think they have much of a choice... $ is always too short.

I think they should've left this card for high-end workstations and went with GDDR6 instead of HBM. I feel like HBM causes more delays in the supply chain because of how many things need to be integrated into a single package.

[Princess Luna]

1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

GDDR6 instead of HBM.

AMD Seems to have always had a fetish for HBM, I'd also would have stick to GDDR6, hells even GDDR5X makes sense as these cards are probably not going to be that much memory starving and that'd definitely improve pricing and availability... I wish we had a more concrete reason why they are insisting on HBM.

 

Even nVidia realized with the TITAN V it wasn't worth it pushing HBM after GDDR6 mass production truly started, or else I'm sure the RTX TITAN or maybe even the 2080 Ti would've featured the premium since they love being 'premium'.

[Shogunluffy_1982]

A lot of response cool I may think to sell my gpu for something else maybe rtx 2070 or same perf class.

[Chett_Manly]

Very disappointed. AMD has a sizeable process advantage at 7nm, and yet still fails to deliver a card capable of gaming performance of the RTX 2080ti, and that is without the Ray Tracing hardware.

 

AMD points out that 7nm offers 25% more performance per watt, and they deliver barely 35% performance increase with Vega 7, which also has superior HBM memory, so the actual architecture might not have improved at all!

 

Then they sell it for $700! So much like how the first vega was a good 980ti competitor launched after 10 series cards, the second will be a good 1080ti competitor launched after RTX, except lucky for them Nvidia decided to price gouge so they actually have a somewhat competitive product.

 

Though for consumers, the amount of performance you are getting for the price still is at roughly the same levels it was last generation!

 

Maybe Intel will shake things up next year. 

[thyrel]

$699 before taxes means €760-800 in Europe for a card that performs on par with a RTX 2080, which costs more or less the same and offers ray tracing support. I'm quite disappointed.

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 minutes ago, Chett_Manly said:

Then they sell it for $700! So much like how the first vega was a good 980ti competitor launched after 10 series cards, the second will be a good 1080ti competitor launched after RTX, except lucky for them Nvidia decided to price gouge so they actually have a somewhat competitive product.

The base MSRP for the RTX 2080 is actually $700, though AIBs generally never sell at that price point anyway. Except this is the rare exception: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2281-KR

 

Also tagging @Princess Cadence because I apparently forgot that snippet about the RTX 2080's price.

[riklaunim]

1 minute ago, Chett_Manly said:

Very disappointed. AMD has a sizeable process advantage at 7nm, and yet still fails to deliver a card capable of gaming performance of the RTX 2080ti, and that is without the Ray Tracing hardware.

Radeon 7 is likely that canceled but now resurrected 7nm Vega for games project. Don't expect 2080 Ti killer from that. Also the presentation of Radeon 7 was quite heavy on "content creators", not "gamers" - so it's noticeable they aren't really pushing gaming hard here. Also I doubt Navi is designed for that either and AMD will want to drop mid-range cards cheaper than Nvidia without going into top of the line card battle for a longer time - not until that larger Navi becomes manufacturable on 7nm. AMD in history had better chips than Nvidia but in gaming market they didn't won that much and they clearly see that winning with 2080Ti is not where the money are at.

 

What Radeon 7 is - a first 7nm GPU - nice component of the keynote and will keep the press busy for quite some time, and as it's "first" some slack will be given to it capabilities And when Radeon 7 buzz will go down they will show that Ryzen chip with two core chiplets (the missing space on today chip) and boom - 16 core AM4 all over the press for AMD anniversary

 

4 minutes ago, Chett_Manly said:

Maybe Intel will shake things up next year. 

Things like graphics drivers and optimization needs a lot of man-hours. Also gaming is a small market. They will tell you their GPU is for gaming but the motivation and primary goal will be compute workloads in data centers, from machine learning to self driving cars and custom GPU/FPGA solutions. That's way bigger market.

[SSJGodemis]

Just now, riklaunim said:

Radeon 7 is likely that canceled but now resurrected 7nm Vega for games project. Don't expect 2080 Ti killer from that. Also the presentation of Radeon 7 was quite heavy on "content creators", not "gamers" - so it's noticeable they aren't really pushing gaming hard here. Also I doubt Navi is designed for that either and AMD will want to drop mid-range cards cheaper than Nvidia without going into top of the line card battle for a longer time - not until that larger Navi becomes manufacturable on 7nm. AMD in history had better chips than Nvidia but in gaming market they didn't won that much and they clearly see that winning with 2080Ti is not where the money are at.

 

What Radeon 7 is - a first 7nm GPU - nice component of the keynote and will keep the press busy for quite some time, and as it's "first" some slack will be given to it capabilities And when Radeon 7 buzz will go down they will show that Ryzen chip with two core chiplets (the missing space on today chip) and boom - 16 core AM4 all over the press for AMD anniversary

 

Things like graphics drivers and optimization needs a lot of man-hours. Also gaming is a small market. They will tell you their GPU is for gaming but the motivation and primary goal will be compute workloads in data centers, from machine learning to self driving cars and custom GPU/FPGA solutions. That's way bigger market.

They are adding it for content creators also because they fail to compete at the high end. Gaming is not a small market. Most consumers are not doing work with Video Cards. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 minutes ago, riklaunim said:

What Radeon 7 is - a first 7nm GPU -

AMD released a 7nm Vega in the Radeon Instinct. But if you want to tack on the qualifier of "consumer GPU", then Apple deserves that with the A12, technically speaking.

 

First 7nm video card meant for the consumer market is what it takes, but that's not impressive if it can't deliver better performance for the same cost as everything else or the same performance for cheaper.

[Chett_Manly]

2 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

The base MSRP for the RTX 2080 is actually $700, though AIBs generally never sell at that price point anyway. Except this is the rare exception: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2281-KR

 

Also tagging @Princess Cadence because I apparently forgot that snippet about the RTX 2080's price.

That's a good point. Its still yet to be seen if Radeon VII's will actually sell for the MSRP. Though I think if Nvidia didn't price gouge, and the 2080 was the $550 of its predecessor, or a reasonable $600, than AMD would be in a lot of trouble here as that 16GB of HBM wouldn't be very viable. 

 

So because Nvidia set prices alongside last gen cards, AMD is able to put out a last gen competitor that fits into the pricing hierarchy. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

6 minutes ago, Chett_Manly said:

That's a good point. Its still yet to be seen if Radeon VII's will actually sell for the MSRP. Though I think if Nvidia didn't price gouge, and the 2080 was the $550 of its predecessor, or a reasonable $600, than AMD would be in a lot of trouble here as that 16GB of HBM wouldn't be very viable. 

 

So because Nvidia set prices alongside last gen cards, AMD is able to put out a last gen competitor that fits into the pricing hierarchy. 

This was the worst case scenario that I feared: AMD looking at what NVIDIA was doing and went "this is fine, we'll just price it to what they are doing." They did it with Vega 64. They did it with R9 Fury. Maybe I'm expecting too much but historically if a GPU manufacturer was not first to the "next gen" party, they'd charge cheaper than who was first to get the ball rolling. Not only does this put AMD at a disadvantage, but it encourages NVIDIA  they're not charging too much either.

 

So now we have a card with last gen features and last gen value. Even with the lack of DXR and DLSS titles (which I'd argue DLSS could be a driver wide thing), NVIDIA still has hardware with something to look forward to.