Outraged by the implementation of Women in Battlefield 5

[Agonizel]

1 minute ago, Matsozetex said:

Didn't COD WW2 have a fiasco where most of their weapons were entirely inaccurate. That counts as historical inaccuracy. 

 

With BFV the things I was confused about was the speed of the Churchill tanks and the guns.

 

For the most part battle field claims authenticity (non functional parts of the game) and the female character models is one of many issues surrounding it.

 

TBH even if it is not authentic, I hope they raise the skill ceiling in this title, BF1 held hands with way too many game mechanics 

see the authenticity vs realism comment

[Syntaxvgm]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

"This is just unnecessary", except for perhaps the thousands of women who want to play as a female?

 

Seriously, this is a MP shooter. The MP Setting is not historically accurate. Unless Deathmatch/Capture Points was something I missed in history class?

 

as said by @valdyrgramr, this is fiction. The devs and writers decide what parts (if any) of history to portrait accurately. If they want to feature a story in which the main character is one of the few females to be on the front lines? So be it. And because allowing female characters in MP just makes sense, so be it.

I don't know man, I've never wanted to play a man enough to rewrite history. Never occurred to me. MP would make sense because for some reason we gotta have character customization in shooting games (why the in fuck is that a thing), but seriously that's a lame excuse in SP, and I'm not sure any of them are playable yet anyway. I've never heard any gamer bitch that a character in SP doesn't represent them or even try to make it so unless the game was built with character customization or something like an RPG. I understand that the amount of games with female leads is very limited, but almost no one playing HZD was mad they had to play as a female. I don't understand this fabricated need to play as someone who represents you- I'm pretty sure half of men pick women in games where you pick your character anyway. Games dont represent you. Even less games where you play black characters than females by far anyway. Way less. 

We can bump this up, but I expect more games like HZD or hell even games like woofystein where it's like ww2 fantasy. 

Not ww2 games that look like a textbook classroom with the disabled kid, token kid, and girl just for the sake of it. They really purposely pushed it imo. They wanted this. In my opinion, I cant read their minds. 

[Ryujin2003]

35 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Even the WW1 mod for Battlefield 1942 (the best Battlefield by the way) was more accurate than BF1 lol

I still think Half Life Day of Defeat mod is the most realistic of any WW2 ERA have, while the more recent Medal of Honor was a pretty good accurate example of the conflict in the Middle East.

27 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Most of these military shooters are made with the US' point of view in mind, showing anything else is seen as a risk that might lead to lower sales; in the end in Battlefield it never really mattered because everyone mostly plays the multiplayer anyway, and being a russian or an american at that point is irrelevant.

Agreed. Even the US perspective of female infantry is outdated and unrealistic compared to the rest of the world.

 

I'd rather fight a US male rifleman than a female Israeli soldier.

 

It's all based on attitude, and unfortunately, the lack of exposure will keep US attitudes sustained.

[dalekphalm]

14 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

everyone in this trailer is clearly trying to hide nothing. Here were have a British woman with a robot arm and a cricket bat being shoved in our face and they expect no one to get mad? Could've promoted woman from french resistance (pretty sure thats who that one woman was) or just again something soviet. It seems so purposely forced for no good reason. 

And that's totally who these arms worked, sure

It's like they wanted outrage. They will blame sexism when the game doesn't sell because it sucks or isn't anything past good enough. 
The entire trailer up to that point was so bad it almost looked like a parody of COD SP. 

And no on can even pretend there was no outrage in BF1 when they just decided the entirety of fucking France and Russia didn't exist and eventually added them via dlc. That's omitting history, people feel like this is rewriting history to fit some sort of agenda. They know it's not going to be super accurate and they expect some cliche's/existing misconceptions to make their way in, but no one up to this point associated this

  Reveal hidden contents

with ww2 

Oh I see the confusion. I was talking about actual historical examples of women in WW2, not the game trailer.

 

Rule of cool my friend. The person could have been a man with a crazy robotic arm, and I guarantee there would be less outrage over it. We've seen other not historically accurate technology in BF games before, so the arm doesn't bother me, because I'm not watching Saving Private Ryan - I don't expect things like this to be historically accurate in the BF series.

14 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

They could have done this by implementing them in a way that is accurate.... my point is there isn't a reason why they had to be inaccurate. Also I never said anything that would imply the devs can't do with the game what they want. That's their right it's their game. That doesn't mean I have to like it. Telling people that they them being mad about something isn't ok is beyond dumb. 

You can be mad about it - I won't take that away from you. I just think it's silly to be mad about it.

7 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

They made alot of people and as well so idk if that even matters. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up losing more than they gained.

I'll argue that far less people are mad about it then you think. The average gamer is probably not even going to think twice about this entire thing. And all the thousands of female gamers are likely going to be happy about it.

[Syntaxvgm]

5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Oh I see the confusion. I was talking about actual historical examples of women in WW2, not the game trailer.

 

Rule of cool my friend. The person could have been a man with a crazy robotic arm, and I guarantee there would be less outrage over it. We've seen other not historically accurate technology in BF games before, so the arm doesn't bother me, because I'm not watching Saving Private Ryan - I don't expect things like this to be historically accurate in the BF series.

You can be mad about it - I won't take that away from you. I just think it's silly to be mad about it.

I'll argue that far less people are mad about it then you think. The average gamer is probably not even going to think twice about this entire thing. And all the thousands of female gamers are likely going to be happy about it.

Why though? Why would anyone be happy about it? As I said above, play a male character means 0 to me. I wouldn't shoo it into a historical game. Games dont need to represent you, they're games. No one couldn't play HZD because girl. All I care about is the political statement. And my point about the arm is honestly I think they're baiting with this. 

I'm ok with more female characters.  People seem to give more attention and love to female characters in the few games they're in. We write male leads to have about as much depth and variance as sand.

Spoiler

 

[Blademaster91]

3 minutes ago, Matsozetex said:

Didn't COD WW2 have a fiasco where most of their weapons were entirely inaccurate. That counts as historical inaccuracy. 

With BFV the things I was confused about was the speed of the Churchill tanks and the guns.

For the most part battle field claims authenticity (non functional parts of the game) and the female character models is one of many issues surrounding it.

TBH even if it is not authentic, I hope they raise the skill ceiling in this title, BF1 held hands with way too many game mechanics 

I don't recall a COD game that ever had the slightest bit of accuracy in weapons even down to weapon sounds or reloading animations, IMO that's ok with COD because it's kind of expected for guns to be overpowered lasers.

With the BFV trailer the speed of those tanks did surprise me, I hope the game is a bit more immersive than that. Although in BF1 the vehicles that often really broke down or got stuck in the muddy terrain have better mobility than modern tanks. With BF4 though you could drive a tank full speed off a giant hill and your tank would still be just fine, and quirky stuff like your IFV/LAV would get stuck on the littlest bit of rock or debris.

I didn't like the hand holding in BF1 either, I hope they at least go back to how it was in BF3 with weapon mechanics and tactics you actually had to learn.

[Syntaxvgm]

4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I don't recall a COD game that ever had the slightest bit of accuracy in weapons even down to weapon sounds or reloading animations, IMO that's ok with COD because it's kind of expected for guns to be overpowered lasers.

With the BFV trailer the speed of those tanks did surprise me, I hope the game is a bit more immersive than that. Although in BF1 the vehicles that often really broke down or got stuck in the muddy terrain have better mobility than modern tanks. With BF4 though you could drive a tank full speed off a giant hill and your tank would still be just fine, and quirky stuff like your IFV/LAV would get stuck on the littlest bit of rock or debris.

I didn't like the hand holding in BF1 either, I hope they at least go back to how it was in BF3 with weapon mechanics and tactics you actually had to learn.

man that entire trailer looked like a cod parody- "ITZ LIEK A MOOVIE YOU CAN PLAY KERSPLOZION!!!!!"

I have a feeling that when I play it that's all Ill car about. To be fair I didn't like bf1 campaign either. Too short. 

[Matsozetex]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

I don't recall a COD game that ever had the slightest bit of accuracy in weapons even down to weapon sounds or reloading animations, IMO that's ok with COD because it's kind of expected for guns to be overpowered lasers.

With the BFV trailer the speed of those tanks did surprise me, I hope the game is a bit more immersive than that. Although in BF1 the vehicles that often really broke down or got stuck in the muddy terrain have better mobility than modern tanks. With BF4 though you could drive a tank full speed off a giant hill and your tank would still be just fine, and quirky stuff like your IFV/LAV would get stuck on the littlest bit of rock or debris.

I didn't like the hand holding in BF1 either, I hope they at least go back to how it was in BF3 with weapon mechanics and tactics you actually had to learn.

Or dare I say... Battlefield 2 mechanics....no? I'll see myself out.

 

As mentioned previously females should be in the USSR and French armies. Also operating a gun with a prosthetic arm, with such speed, what. 

 

Inb4 DICE make it like Red Orchestra 2 and meme it 

[Matsozetex]

1 minute ago, Syntaxvgm said:

man that entire trailer looked like a cod parody- "ITZ LIEK A MOOVIE YOU CAN PLAY KERSPLOZION!!!!!"

I have a feeling that when I play it that's all Ill car about. To be fair I didn't like bf1 campaign either. Too short. 

Luckily EA didn't show any German weapons to great detail, the Wehraboos got so pissed at depictions of some German weapons and vehicles in CoD WW2

[matrix07012]

1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

I see.

 

Well if we're posting videos I'll do it as a link but this one explains why so many gamers hold these kinds of views today.

Ok, I watched the video and I have a lot of problems with it, but they don’t belong in this thread and even this forum. If you want we can take it to DMs.

[Syntaxvgm]

11 minutes ago, Matsozetex said:

Luckily EA didn't show any German weapons to great detail, the Wehraboos got so pissed at depictions of some German weapons and vehicles in CoD WW2

Man I love me some ww2 german weapons. I legit cry because off all the mp44s being destroyed in the syrian conflict but they're 70k USD here because huges amendment. Beautiful guns. I dream of owning one. 

Meanwhile COD ignores the bullet in the chamber when reloading, so I don't fucking care, clearly just being a game. 

NO games depict guns right. Arma is probably the only one i can think of that truly tries. 

[Agonizel]

This is getting out of hand

[Ryujin2003]

2 minutes ago, Beer_Nontitju said:

This is getting out of hand

I'm surprised mods have let this run this far. Circular arguments and side rails... Didn't expect this kind of thing here.

[Serin]

Suddenly I'm interested in BF5.

If only to unsettle the fragile.

[Shreyas1]

7 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Man I love me some ww2 german weapons. I legit cry because off all the mp44s being destroyed in the syrian conflict but they're 70k USD here because huges amendment. Beautiful guns. I dream of owning one. 

Meanwhile COD ignores the bullet in the chamber when reloading, so I don't fucking care, clearly just being a game. 

NO games depict guns right. Arma is probably the only one i can think of that truly tries. 

what? why Who would destroy those!

[Mio85]

The only people who are "outraged" by this are sexists and Incels who hide the fact that women are getting more representation in the gaming industry behind a terrible "historical accuracy" scapegoat.

[Mio85]

10 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Man I love me some ww2 german weapons. I legit cry because off all the mp44s being destroyed in the syrian conflict but they're 70k USD here because huges amendment. Beautiful guns. I dream of owning one. 

Meanwhile COD ignores the bullet in the chamber when reloading, so I don't fucking care, clearly just being a game. 

NO games depict guns right. Arma is probably the only one i can think of that truly tries. 

If you have a VR headset, you should checkout a game called Hotdogs Horseshoes and Handgrenades.

[Crosseyed Sniper]

Nevermind

[Syntaxvgm]

6 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

what? why Who would destroy those!

illegal to import. If you discover your granddad's ww2 gun in your attic, if it's auto it must be destroyed. Huges doesn't just ban anything but pre-86 guns, it requires them to have been registered at the time of the ban.  

[Arika]

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Brooksie359]

39 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I don't recall a COD game that ever had the slightest bit of accuracy in weapons even down to weapon sounds or reloading animations, IMO that's ok with COD because it's kind of expected for guns to be overpowered lasers.

With the BFV trailer the speed of those tanks did surprise me, I hope the game is a bit more immersive than that. Although in BF1 the vehicles that often really broke down or got stuck in the muddy terrain have better mobility than modern tanks. With BF4 though you could drive a tank full speed off a giant hill and your tank would still be just fine, and quirky stuff like your IFV/LAV would get stuck on the littlest bit of rock or debris.

I didn't like the hand holding in BF1 either, I hope they at least go back to how it was in BF3 with weapon mechanics and tactics you actually had to learn.

The first 3 call of duties were alot like medal of honor. They were pretty damn historically accurate. I mean at least alot more accurate than most current ww2 games. You could tell by playing it that they were shooting for realism and they did a pretty good job if you ask me. 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

4 hours ago, Beer_Nontitju said:

check the youtube comment section

LOL why would I ever?

4 hours ago, Beer_Nontitju said:

un the BF5 Trailer, there is no hand-picking here. Everywhere your eyes go, it's complaining about wahmen

That wasn't my point. You handpicked my words  I never talked to how often the phenomenon repeats itself on Twitter (or, for that matter, other outrage outlets).

Even if you have 1,000,000 comments, actually, especially when you have 1,000,000 comments, making a "journalistic article" with three handpicked (yes, handpicked, since they were singled out by the author) comments alone is pretty close to self-referential.

Same as you may have an epidemic outbreak of flu: writing an article about it backed with data on the extent of the outbreak is journalism. Writing an article titled "Massive flu outbreak" based on five handpicked twits by people complaining about having the flu is something else... It's... what we have these days, basically.

And notice that in the example the epidemic is happening either way.

 

[Brooksie359]

43 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

OP was about sexist twitter users raging in sexist ways.  You and others spun it to a whole new level of bitching about how you only care about 1 inaccuracy and not all the others while knowing nothing about the game because nobody does.  The "front" was the cover of the game as in the box art, not the frontline.  Even if we removed the "sexist" aspect of it then you should be mad about every inaccuracy rather than just one, regardless of it adding "a mechanic" because at this point it's just bitching for the sake of bitching.  Either you're mad about the inaccuracies of the game, or you're just bitching for the sake of bitching. Which is it?  Again, why you care so much about history in fiction is beyond me, but to me, it sounds like borderline psychosis when people get this vocal over how real fiction is.

Like I said most of the times when I see them having something that is historically inaccurate I get a little upset then think about why they put something like that in the game and end up realizing there was a good reason. Here I see no reason as to why they added women the way they did when they had the opportunity to do so while still being true to the time period. If they can justify it then it makes sense but I don't see how they can justify this when they could have done it in a manner that was true to the time period. Like I said before, it wasn't that they added women to the game. It was how they added them that I am a bit upset about. It would be the same as me getting mad about them adding a panzer to BF1 but that doesn't mean I am against them having tanks in the game. I am just against how they added them in a way that wasn't accurate to the time period. Obvious this is a hypothetical but the point being that the issue isn't with women being in the game but rather how they are in the game. 

[Misanthrope]

51 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

Ok, I watched the video and I have a lot of problems with it, but they don’t belong in this thread and even this forum. If you want we can take it to DMs.

Fair enough.

 

Note that I used a link and not embedded for the reasons you mention: I find it difficulty to discuss my assertion here, that many people that are reacting negatively to this are disingenuously doing it under the pretense of historical accuracy when it seems fairly transparent that their disagreement is political in nature, as it's often the case with EA games and their decisions on inclusiveness.

 

But I think that's about as much as I can say on the subject publicly on the forum.

[Syntaxvgm]

24 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

The first 3 call of duties were alot like medal of honor. They were pretty damn historically accurate. I mean at least alot more accurate than most current ww2 games. You could tell by playing it that they were shooting for realism and they did a pretty good job if you ask me. 

COD2 and (WAW I guess) one of the few games to actually cover Stalingrad and have MP levels with it. I think cod2 even had a woman side character, I remember as some servers modded the model to be playable in mp. I mean if you did that same thing but made the female character a main character or the one you played it'd be cool, you dont have to jam Furiosa in a ww2 shooter though.