Windows 10 on ARM does not include phones

[Nowak]

Sauce: http://pocketnow.com/2017/07/19/windows-10-arm-effort-phones-speculation-refuted-joe-belfiore

 

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The last Lumia device came out around 18 months ago, third-party Windows 10 Mobile-based product manufacturers abandoned the platform one by one of late, the mythical Surface Phone is still a pipe dream, and official WP 8.1 support was halted for good just last week.

Pretty much all signs point to Microsoft giving up on smartphones altogether, aside from recent speculation of yet another take on Redmond’s pocket-friendly OS.

But then there's Windows 10 on ARM! Although, Joe Belfiore has confirmed: Windows 10 on ARM will not be coming to existing phones, and the whole effort isn't focusing on phones.

 

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There’s also the Windows 10 on ARM initiative that Microsoft and Qualcomm repeatedly demonstrated with reference designs, promising commercial rollouts by the end of the year. Dreamers were quick to interpret the ambitious project as destined for phones in addition to tablets, laptops and 2-in-1s powered by Snapdragon SoCs, but in accordance with common sense, Joe Belfiore has just put this wild gossip to rest.

The always communicative Corporate VP in the Operating Systems Group at Microsoft went into great detail the other day regarding the technical reasons why the “Windows 10 on ARM effort” is simply not a feasible “phone-like experience.”

The reason why? Windows 10 Mobile, something they have barely paid attention to since the end of 2016.

 

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The goal is to provide a “desktop PC experience” to devices built on ARM architecture “so that they’re connected all the time and have great battery life.” That doesn’t include phones also because there’s still Windows 10 Mobile around for “phone-like experiences on ARM.”

For those of you hoping for a phone running full Windows 10, on an ARM CPU, to "surface", I'm sorry. Although, as I pointed out before, Microsoft has barely paid any attention to their pocket OS since the end of 2016, even as revenue drops, partners abandon the OS entirely due to a lack of sales and market share falls to a measly 0.1%. Of course, though, his comment can lead to expectations that maybe, just maybe, there's a new W10m product in the pipeline. Just don't get your hopes up.

 

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Wait, does that mean new W10M products are in the pipeline after all? It sure sounds like it, though Microsoft execs do have a tendency to mislead with statements regularly open to interpretation.

Honestly, I feel like Belfiore should have just said "Buy an Android or iOS phone instead", because there are almost no phones running Windows Phone/10 Mobile being sold or produced now and Microsoft's actions have shown anything but "commitment" to the OS. Again, don't get your hopes up for a new pocket-friendly Windows device. There's nowhere for the OS to go from here but further down the road to extinction.

[The Sloth]

that sucks, for that one person who enjoys windows phone.

8 minutes ago, Daring said:

Windows 10 on ARM! Although, Joe Belfiore has confirmed: Windows 10 on ARM

hope raspberry pi gets a release 

[themctipers]

someone is going to put this on a android phone anyways.. 

[Spuriae]

Try stopping the Chinese tablet makers from making a Windows 10 phone. I know I'd be interested if any have half-decent battery life and Wacom stylus support.

[Nowak]

Just now, Nimrodor said:

Try stopping the Chinese tablet makers from making a Windows 10 phone. I know I'd be interested if any have half-decent battery life and Wacom stylus support.

I, too, like buying into dead operating systems.

[Spuriae]

2 minutes ago, Daring said:

I, too, like buying into dead operating systems.

How is full Windows 10 a dead OS?

[TetraSky]

23 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

that sucks, for that one person who enjoys windows phone.

But it's good though... It's a lot more intuitive than Android, easy learning curve if you ever used a Windows 10 PC and the map app is arguably better than Google Map. Just by the fact that it support offline navigation without requiring you to jump through a bunch of hoops, be connected to your account and then go in some setting to download the map, for the entire god damn province/state, not just a city.

 

It's mainly missing things like Google's stuff now.

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Nimrodor said:

How is full Windows 10 a dead OS?

Oh, I thought you meant 10 Mobile. Different case then  

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, Daring said:

Oh, I thought you meant 10 Mobile. Different case then  

to be fair, microsoft is as intelligent as a fucking clownfish so it wouldn't shock me if windows 10 became obsolete from some stupid action

[Nowak]

3 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

Just by the fact that it support offline navigation without requiring you to jump through a bunch of hoops, be connected to your account and then go in some setting to download the map, for the entire god damn province/state, not just a city.

1. Flick open sidebar

2. Select "Offline Maps"

3. Choose your own map

4. Select as much of a map as you want

 

Easy  

[GoodBytes]

46 minutes ago, Daring said:

1. Flick open sidebar

2. Select "Offline Maps"

3. Choose your own map

4. Select as much of a map as you want

 

Easy  

Repeat every 30days.  Doesn't update automatically. Doesn't allow you to use "outdated" map data, leave the area due to a wrong turn? Too bad!

Why isn't the offline map embedded in the OS, so that the map data is automatically maintained automatically, and can cover whole states/provinces wanted?

 

The point being, is that doesn't mean that Windows 10 Mobile isn't popular, that everything it has is garbage.  If anything, as an Android user, you should be sad, because Android is nicely copying Windows 10 Mobile / Windows Phone 8. Including "Driving Mode", camera app settings control layout, Automatic Quiet Hours, Offline maps, Glance screen... among other.. Similarly if you are an Apple user.

 

Competition is good no matter what phone you have. All phones are great, they all have their up sides. Having Windows leaving the phone market should be nothing more than sad, even if you have 0 interest in the device or OS.

[GoodBytes]

Windows 10 on ARM isn't coming on phone regardless.

How are you supposed to use a desktop on your phone? Try remote desktop to your PC and you'll know how it feels... good luck using the phone seriously. Everything will be too small to properly use.

 

Windows 10 on ARM was always aimed as Chromebook market. At no point in time there was even a hint that this will replace Windows 10 Mobile.

So, I don't get this news.

 

Might as well go and say: "Bad news! Ubuntu is not coming to the Nintendo Switch or any gaming console!". No! really? you don't say! I guess some people dreamed it,

 

What IS A possibility is Windows 10 on ARM powered by CShell on a convertible phone/tablet device that a few hints Microsoft giving out out of a few patents recently registered. That would make sense. You have a desktop in tablet mode, and the start menu is full screen "Windows 10 Mobile" style, when in phone mode.

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows 10 on ARM isn't coming on phone regardless.

How are you supposed to use a desktop on your phone? Try remote desktop to your PC and you'll know how it feels... good luck using the phone seriously. Everything will be too small to properly use.

There are some people who seemed thoroughly convinced that W10A is coming to phones, so I posted this to try dispelling the rumors. Ultimately it seems that Microsoft agrees: full Windows 10 on ARM is a bad idea.

 

Sure, it sounds like something that'd be really cool, being able to take your PC anywhere, in your pocket, but... there's also the concerns Belfiore brought up: battery life, scaling and user friendliness. It's just not a feasible idea.

[JAKEBAB]

2 minutes ago, Daring said:

It's just not a feasible idea.

Yet. I mean look at apples patent. I know its just a patent but surely they see some potential for this in the future.

[samcool55]

11 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Repeat every 30days.  Doesn't update automatically. Doesn't allow you to use "outdated" map data, leave the area due to a wrong turn? Too bad!

Why isn't the offline map embedded in the OS, so that the map data is automatically maintained automatically, and can cover whole states/provinces wanted?

Umm, it does allow automatic updating of the maps...

When you are in the "offline maps" menu, press the gear, it should give you the option to allow automatic updates in that menu.

Also i can save multiple states in 1 map and you can always save multiple offline maps, it will switch over from one offline map to another one if that's needed.

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, JAKEBAB said:

Yet. I mean look at apples patent. I know its just a patent but surely they see some potential for this in the future.

Patents don't necessarily mean they will be used. There are tons of patents for various designs, devices and other things like that will never see the light of day.

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, Daring said:

Sure, it sounds like something that'd be really cool, being able to take your PC anywhere, in your pocket, but... there's also the concerns Belfiore brought up: battery life, scaling and user friendliness. It's just not a feasible idea.

Yea. I think what most people don't know is that phones apps don't really support multi-tasking. You are limited to pass everything through services offered by the OS if you want an app to continue to work when is it not focused on the screen is turned off. Looks like Nintendo just learned that out with their Nintendo Switch app, where a voice call is dropped if you switch app or turn off the screen. They should have used the OS services of the phone. Sadly for Nintendo, it isn't a 2min fix. It is a huge change to the app code architecture from what I know.  Power saving is very aggressive on phones.

[Nowak]

Just now, GoodBytes said:

Yea. I think what most people don't know is that phones apps don't really support multi-tasking. You are limited to pass everything through services offered by the OS if you want an app to continue to work when is it not focused on the screen is turned off. Looks like Nintendo just learned that out with their Nintendo Switch app, where a voice call is dropped if you switch app or turn off the screen. They should have used the OS services of the phone. Sadly for Nintendo, it isn't a 2min fix. It is a huge change to the app code architecture from what I know.  Power saving is very aggressive on phones.

Android still lets me run applications in the background... although, they need special permissions or I need to pay a monthly subscription to do so. So yeah, I agree there. "Mobile devices" and "true multitasking" don't go in a sentence together.

[Jito463]

10 minutes ago, Daring said:

Android still lets me run applications in the background... although, they need special permissions or I need to pay a monthly subscription to do so

Huh?  You'll have to explain that one to me.  A monthly subscription to run apps in the background?

[Nowak]

19 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Huh?  You'll have to explain that one to me.  A monthly subscription to run apps in the background?

It's for YouTube -w-

[RagnarokDel]

2 hours ago, Daring said:

I, too, like buying into dead operating systems.

It's more popular then every other Windows OS combined.

[Nowak]

Just now, RagnarokDel said:

Yeah, 50% marketshare, dead OS, wut?

I already went over this, but I thought they were talking about Windows 10 Mobile  

[captain_to_fire]

3 hours ago, Daring said:

The reason why? Windows 10 Mobile, something they have barely paid attention to since the end of 2016

I think if it's here or in another tech site that said maintaining Windows 10 Mobile doesn't require so much money. 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

The point being, is that doesn't mean that Windows 10 Mobile isn't popular, that everything it has is garbage.  If anything, as an Android user, you should be sad, because Android is nicely copying Windows 10 Mobile / Windows Phone 8. Including "Driving Mode", camera app settings control layout, Automatic Quiet Hours, Offline maps, Glance screen... among other.. Similarly if you are an Apple user.

Personally, I couldn't care less who copied from who and tech companies have been copying each other's ideas for decades already. 

 

I want a smartphone which "just works" and iOS and Android did just fine. If I'm jumping platforms let's say iOS to Android, I'm pretty sure that 95% of apps that I use on iOS has an official Android equivalent. The only things I'd be giving up is iWork, iMessage and FaceTime. If an iPhone/Android user switches to Windows Phone, it's just too much of a compromise. Back in Windows Phone 8/8.1, it doesn't sync well with Google services because WP8 back then doesn't support CalDAV and CardDAV not to mention the lack of support for VPNs. As one of my favorite tech reviewer have said, "fans of the Windows Phone platform should stop making excuses for its shortcomings."

3 hours ago, Daring said:

Honestly, I feel like Belfiore should have just said "Buy an Android or iOS phone instead", because there are almost no phones running Windows Phone/10 Mobile being sold or produced now and Microsoft's actions have shown anything but "commitment" to the OS. Again, don't get your hopes up for a new pocket-friendly Windows device. There's nowhere for the OS to go from here but further down the road to extinction.

Hence, no unicorn "Surface phone" at all. Tbh, the state of W10M, WP8, and WP7 is kinda like a video game that is constantly retconned which is probably one of the reasons why it, not because app developers are a bunch of bigots. App developers saw that they are not provided with the essential tools (APIs in SDK) which means they can't get financially compensated for their efforts.

[vanished]

3 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

to be fair, microsoft is as intelligent as a fucking clownfish so it wouldn't shock me if windows 10 became obsolete from some stupid action

That would be truly impressive.  Even more so than the fact Blockbuster's top people managed to drive it into the ground.

[mr moose]

I have yet to see an actual statement from MS saying they won't do this.  Not too many quotes in that article and a dig at MS for being ambiguous.  I guess words are easy to manipulate when you don't care about the end result or make money from the speculation.