Intel's responses to AMD Ryzen with i7 7740K and i5 7640K

[NTDaws]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

 

 

Everyone is saying this new chip would kill the i7 line and I just don't understand where that reasoning is coming from.  Seems to me, it would just be an i7, in everything but name.

I didn't say it would kill it, I am trying to say that it won't make sense to have two 4 core 8 thread cpus.

[YamiYukiSenpai]

An i5 with hyperthreading makes the existence of 4/8 i7s pointless.

 

I really hope that they'll use a 4/8 i5s for their next microarchitecture.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

 

 

Everyone is saying this new chip would kill the i7 line and I just don't understand where that reasoning is coming from.  Seems to me, it would just be an i7, in everything but name.

That's exactly why it would kill the consumer i7 lineup. It would be exactly an i7, minus 2mb of cache. Not only that, but now it adds a layer of confusion, because future consumers will wonder which i5's have HT, and which do not. If the nomenclature doesn't change, and it still is a K suffix i5, then the influx of "Does this i5 have HT?" questions will be huge. 

 

It would be one thing, if they stuck with "i5 xx40k = HT", meaning the 40k part is HT, but knowing Intel, they will not stick to that. They love to make things very convoluted for no reason. 

 

In my opinion, there isn't a large enough gap price wise to fit a hyperthreaded i5 in between normal i5's and i7's. If it's only slightly more expensive than an i5, nobody will buy a normal i5, or an i7 for that matter. If it's only slightly less expensive than an i7, people wanting an i5 will just get the cheaper i5's, and people that were going to pay more for an i7, would buy the cheaper i5HT. It just doesn't make much sense for Intel to go this route. Not yet anyways. Not until we actually see Ryzen's real performance and prices. 

[vanished]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

That's exactly why it would kill the consumer i7 lineup. It would be exactly an i7, minus 2mb of cache. Not only that, but now it adds a layer of confusion, because future consumers will wonder which i5's have HT, and which do not. If the nomenclature doesn't change, and it still is a K suffix i5, then the influx of "Does this i5 have HT?" questions will be huge. 

 

It would be one thing, if they stuck with "i5 xx40k = HT", meaning the 40k part is HT, but knowing Intel, they will not stick to that. They love to make things very convoluted for no reason. 

 

In my opinion, there isn't a large enough gap price wise to fit a hyperthreaded i5 in between normal i5's and i7's. If it's only slightly more expensive than an i5, nobody will buy a normal i5, or an i7 for that matter. If it's only slightly less expensive than an i7, people wanting an i5 will just get the cheaper i5's, and people that were going to pay more for an i7, would buy the cheaper i5HT. It just doesn't make much sense for Intel to go this route. Not yet anyways. Not until we actually see Ryzen's real performance and prices. 

I totally agree that the naming would be a disaster, and expressed that on page 2  But I still don't get how it would kill the i7 lineup unless they release this at typical i5 prices, which there would be no reason to.

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I totally agree that the naming would be a disaster, and expressed that on page 2  But I still don't get how it would kill the i7 lineup unless they release this at typical i5 prices, which there would be no reason to.

The reason would be: it has to be cheaper than an i7, and that window is only about $100 in size. The way I see it, if they price the current i5's at $240, the current i7's at $340, the half-way point is $290. That undercuts the cost of even the cheapest i7 (6700, $300) and will likely outperform it since it can OC. Price it ANY higher, and you would just get an i7 anyways. Price it too low, and you will never touch an i7. Who would pay that much more money for just 2mb of cache? 

 

I just don't see this product working out in their current lineup. I could very well be wrong, but without seeing how well Ryzen can do, and what it is priced at, we won't be able to guess what these "rumored" Intel SKU's will be priced at. 

[vanished]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

The reason would be: it has to be cheaper than an i7, and that window is only about $100 in size. The way I see it, if they price the current i5's at $240, the current i7's at $340, the half-way point is $290. That undercuts the cost of even the cheapest i7 (6700, $300) and will likely outperform it since it can OC. Price it ANY higher, and you would just get an i7 anyways. Price it too low, and you will never touch an i7. Who would pay that much more money for just 2mb of cache? 

 

I just don't see this product working out in their current lineup. I could very well be wrong, but without seeing how well Ryzen can do, and what it is priced at, we won't be able to guess what these "rumored" Intel SKU's will be priced at. 

Ah, that's the difference then.  It seems everyone else has assumed this will come out at a price that will make i7s pointless, while I just assumed they would price this somewhere it makes sense in the lineup - that being similar to existing i7s.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

The reason would be: it has to be cheaper than an i7, and that window is only about $100 in size. The way I see it, if they price the current i5's at $240, the current i7's at $340, the half-way point is $290. That undercuts the cost of even the cheapest i7 (6700, $300) and will likely outperform it since it can OC. Price it ANY higher, and you would just get an i7 anyways. Price it too low, and you will never touch an i7. Who would pay that much more money for just 2mb of cache? 

 

I just don't see this product working out in their current lineup. I could very well be wrong, but without seeing how well Ryzen can do, and what it is priced at, we won't be able to guess what these "rumored" Intel SKU's will be priced at. 

I'm expecting it to be priced about the same as a 6700/7700 (non-k). I don't really see the purpose of this to be something that necessarily "makes sense", but rather so that Intel can say they released an i7 for less so as to not be shown up by Ryzen. Plus, it might get the sales of those who were waiting for Ryzen to cause Intel to drop prices.  

[stconquest]

No more non-K skus from i3-i7 and leave it to mobo makers to decide what boards can do what?

[Guest Kloaked]

25 minutes ago, stconquest said:

No more non-K skus from i3-i7 and leave it to mobo makers to decide what boards can do what?

I don't know why this wasn't a thing in the first place. I understand that there has to be some type of certification process to have a K-version of the CPU but is it really that bad to just not have all unlocked CPUs and then just let the motherboard manufacturers decide which boards can overclock?

 

I don't see Intel doing something like that seeing as how they wanted ASRock and whoever else it was release a bios update for their B-version motherboards to not be able to overclock those Xeons - if anyone remembers that. I think that's what it was anyways.

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

I don't know why this wasn't a thing in the first place.

[Drak3]

49 minutes ago, MageTank said:

i5HT

Won't lie, I read that as "I Shit," which sums up a quadcore, hyperthreaded i5 in the middle of Kaby Lake's life cycle.

 

Although, Apple would probably equip Macs with it, charge $3000, and market it with "i5HT." How I read it still sums up the product fairly well, too.

[Guest Kloaked]

4 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

Man, I like money too but good grief

[stconquest]

3 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

I don't know why this wasn't a thing in the first place. I understand that there has to be some type of certification process to have a K-version of the CPU but is it really that bad to just not have all unlocked CPUs and then just let the motherboard manufacturers decide which boards can overclock?

 

I don't see Intel doing something like that seeing as how they wanted ASRock and whoever else it was release a bios update for their B-version motherboards to not be able to overclock those Xeons - if anyone remembers that. I think that's what it was anyways.

Bad habits die hard.  Intel has been milking the "special feature" of overclocking certain chips and making a few bucks on it along the way.

 

I really doubt there would be any harm in allowing OC'ing on all their mainstream CPUS.  If they wanted to they could allow only K-Series to come with a warranty for that type of procedure, whereas non-K chips would be:  OC at your own risk.  IDK, that seems dumb.

 

The only reason I mentioned all non-K chips being phased out was that:

 

1.  I want to see that happen.

 

2.  A way to combat a possible AMD threat.  Offer more at little cost to them.

[Biggerboot]

I've been hearing rumors about a 6 core mainstream i7 since coffee lake was 'announced', so an HT i5 wouldn't be too far out there.  They should really just market it as 8th gen OR call it the i9.  Seriously intel, it markets itself.  

 

AMD aside, it seems like more cores is the next logical step to make the next few CPU generations more viable.  

[WMGroomAK]

17 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

They're pulling info from thin air if it's going to be LGA2066. They have been caught to make things up, like when some dude it a fake ITX board on Ryzen way before it was even announced. They ran a full essay article on it, using information for a board that didn't even exist.

OC3d picked up the same source as WCCF at BenchLife.info so I'm still taking this with a large grain of salt, but they are also calling this a part of the Kaby Lake X SKU on the LGA 2066 socket...  This would make some sort of weird sense if they are trying to entice more people to move onto the X299 platform and then sell them on Skylake X or other LGA 2066 larger than 4 core processors in the future.  Depending on the pricing, an i5 LGA 2066 may be an excellent way to get people into this chipset.

 

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_i5_7640k_and_7740k_are_rumoured_to_be_part_of_their_kaby_lake-x_lineup/1

 

[NumLock21]

9 hours ago, WMGroomAK said:

OC3d picked up the same source as WCCF at BenchLife.info so I'm still taking this with a large grain of salt, but they are also calling this a part of the Kaby Lake X SKU on the LGA 2066 socket...  This would make some sort of weird sense if they are trying to entice more people to move onto the X299 platform and then sell them on Skylake X or other LGA 2066 larger than 4 core processors in the future.  Depending on the pricing, an i5 LGA 2066 may be an excellent way to get people into this chipset.

 

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_i5_7640k_and_7740k_are_rumoured_to_be_part_of_their_kaby_lake-x_lineup/1

 

There was another report a while back saying Kaby Lake X is only to have one CPU with just 4 cores and 16 PCIe lanes. The other 3 will be part of Skylake X. A Core i5 on a enthusiast platform? IMO not happening even if that i5 has Hyper Thread. Looking back when Intel first separated mainstream and enthusiast, with socket 1156 for mainstream and socket 1366 for enthusiast. There was no Core i5 for socket 1366.

[Mooshi]

This is more embarrassing than McDonald's new Big Mac. 

[NumLock21]

7 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

This is more embarrassing than McDonald's new Big Mac. 

The Grand Mac taste awesome. $5 bucks for whole combo!

[Wolther]

30 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

The Grand Mac taste awesome. $5 bucks for whole combo!

The food is definitely unhealthy but goddamn I can get so much of it on the cheap 

[biker]

An i5 has the core of an i7, its just a lousy i7 thats been cutoff and badged i5.

[Citadelen]

Intel's orderly product line-up has collapsed it seems. I was expecting aggressive price drops, not this mess...

[vanished]

22 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

Intel's orderly product line-up has collapsed it seems. I was expecting aggressive price drops, not this mess...

If Zen really is so good that they need to adjust to compete, that would have made more sense imo than releasing this very minor improvement.

[Ensho]

These are part of the new X299 line up due out later this year.  It was already mentioned that there was going to be a few 4 core X299 parts that had people confused.  These parts more than likely were already in the line up and are not a reaction to Ryzen.

 

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-7740k-core-i5-7640k-amd-ryzen/

 

Intel Kaby Lake-X Core i7-7740K and Core i5-7640K Specs:

CPU Name	Intel Core i5-7600K	Intel Core i5-7640K	Intel Core i7-7700K	Intel Core i7-7740K
CPU Process	14nm+	14nm+	14nm+	14nm+
Cores/Threads	4/4	4/4	4/8	4/8
Base Clock	3.8 GHz	4.0 GHz	4.2 GHz	4.3 GHz
Boost Clock	4.2 GHz	4.0 GHz	4.5 GHz	TBD
L3 Cache	6 MB L3	6 MB L3	8 MB L3	8 MB L3
Memory Support	DDR4 Dual Channel	DDR4 Quad Channel	DDR4 Dual Channel	DDR4 Quad Channel
Socket Type	LGA 1151	LGA 2066	LGA 1151	LGA 2066
TDP	91W	112W	91W	112W
Price	$242 US	TBD	$339 US	TBD

[vanished]

9 minutes ago, Ensho said:

 

Intel is bringing i5 chips to the enthusiast line with their new 7640k and 7740k CPUs.  Click the link in the description to learn more.

 

OK but seriously, why are they bringing mainstream chips to the enthusiast platform, the should be doing the opposite and bringing 6 cores to Z270!

[Ensho]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Intel is bringing i5 chips to the enthusiast line with their new 7640k and 7740k CPUs.  Click the link in the description to learn more.

 

OK but seriously, why are they bringing mainstream chips to the enthusiast platform, the should be doing the opposite and bringing 6 cores to Z270!

Yeah, it is really weird.  From what I saw from Cannon Lake slides released if I have it right, they are going to have 6 core mainstream parts in late 2018.