Intel's responses to AMD Ryzen with i7 7740K and i5 7640K

[Valentyn]

6 hours ago, zMeul said:

X99 is an aging platform

the darn thing has PCIe gen 2 and DMI 2.0 - compare that to 100 and 200 series chipsets

 

AMD will have it's own socket for Naples chips

 

I'm sorry what? The X99 has PCIe Gen 3 support from its launch.

[StealthArsenal]

I'm confused with a quad core being on the X299 platform.  Is this just to drive a more competitive price point with the consumer on the enthusiast platform?  Also, why is there an i5 on X299? 

[Techstorm970]

7 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Check the French source. Guru3D screwed up some of the facts. If you check canard the 7740k is 100 MHz higher putting it at 4.3ghz base. Guru3D somehow interpreted this as 200 MHz higher and somehow thought the 7700k had a 4 ghz base clock speed.

C'mon guys!  The 6700k is the one at 4Ghz, not the 7700k.  You should know this! 

[Techstorm970]

7 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

So I can get a competitively priced i5 HT probably for less than the 7700k....on a platform where entry level basic motherboards are going to be more expensive than this chip?

 

 

Yep.  This is why and how the whole "i5 Extreme Edition" thing is really stupid.

[cj09beira]

2 hours ago, Tedny said:

So, 65w AMD Cpu vs 100w Intel Apu... looks like irony 

intels tdp is a worst case senario, they almost never reach this value

[Techstorm970]

7 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

This to me makes about as much sense (zero) as the i3 K chip: Sure you can save a few bucks on the chip but need a really expensive motherboard to go with it....like at that point nobody should fucking get it instead of a cheap Z270 + 7700k which knowing the prices of this boards would probably set you back as much money, henceforth defeating the purpose of the X299 i5

Yeah...I know a lot of people wanted an overclockable i3, but when a quad core i5 is being sold for the same price AND has better performance regardless, it's a moot point.

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, Valentyn said:

I'm sorry what? The X99 has PCIe Gen 3 support from its launch.

no, it does not: https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/chipsets/desktop-chipsets/x99.html

[dexT]

27 minutes ago, StealthArsenal said:

I'm confused with a quad core being on the X299 platform.  Is this just to drive a more competitive price point with the consumer on the enthusiast platform?  Also, why is there an i5 on X299? 

I'm sure famed Intel engineer Risitas will give an interview on the reasons why

[Vode]

7 hours ago, Wix said:

 

So then it should be.. X119..?

More like X120 because every second time you don't add 20 but 21.

[KyleKyleKyle]

so basically they just took a 7700k and clocked it a bit higher? WOT. I can do that with the 7700k I already have lol.

[zaesho]

Uhh when will there be a future where Intel makes the i3 Quad Core, the i5 Sixcore and the i7 8 core w/hyperthreading.

[TheKDub]

-Snip-

 

I just want to see some major improvements on single thread performance..

[VerticalDiscussions]

Lol. I still got more cores than both Ryzen and Intel combined .-.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

1 hour ago, cj09beira said:

intels tdp is a worst case senario, they almost never reach this value

I've seen 120-130+W on my i7-4790K (88W TDP) at stock, when running Prime95 28.7 small FFT.  (Temps hit 100°C, & it throttles to 3.7 GHz, if I haven't cleaned the dust out in a while.  Cooler is a 212 Evo.)

 

 

 

I'd really like to see a few things from Intel within the next year or less ...

 

• Greatly improve the IPC - for example, a 3 GHz or less single thread would do 300 or more in Cinebench R15
• Slash the prices considerably across the entire stack.  At minimum I'd like to see the i7-6900K dropped to the price of the R7-1700/X, and other prices slashed a similar percentage.  Even better would be slashing the entire line by the same percentage that Westmere and older Xeons have fallen on ebay.  Give the high-end SKUs the bigger cut, to even out the price/performance curve across the stack, or give the high-end parts (like E7-8894 v4 or 7290) slightly better price/performance than lower-end parts (like G3930 or N3450).
• If you're going to change sockets again, standardize things.  Use the same socket across the entire stack, and keep the same socket longer we can upgrade our CPUs a couple times without having to change the motherboard.  At minimum, keep the same socket until the switch to DDR5, and preferably let us upgrade to another CPU on the same socket the same year the 10-year warranty on a high-end PSU (bought with the motherboard) expires.

[2FA]

1 hour ago, cj09beira said:

intels tdp is a worst case senario, they almost never reach this value

No it isn't, it's the highest Tcase.

 

Straight from Intel:

Quote

Intel defines TDP as follows: The upper point of the thermal profile consists of the Thermal Design Power (TDP) and the associated Tcase value. Thermal Design Power (TDP) should be used for processor thermal solution design targets. TDP is not the maximum power that the processor can dissipate. TDP is measured at maximum TCASE.1 . The thermal profile must be adhered to to ensure Intel’s reliability requirements are met. Note: Different processors SKU’s have different TDP’s. At the time of this writing, Intel® Xeon® processors for 2 socket servers (5600 series) are available with a TDP specification from 40W up to 130W depending on the particular SKU1 . AMD Opteron* processors also have a TDP specification.

 

According to AMD documentation2 their TDP specification is as follows: “TDP. Thermal Design Power. The thermal design power is the maximum power a processor can draw for a thermally significant period while running commercially useful software. The constraining conditions for TDP are specified in the notes in the thermal and power tables.” Notes: - TDP is measured under the conditions of all cores operating at CPU COF, Tcase Max, and VDD at the voltage requested by the processor. TDP includes all power dissipated on-die from VDD, VDDNB, VDDIO, VLDT, VTT and VDDA. - The processor thermal solution should be designed to accommodate thermal design power (TDP) at Tcase,max.TDP is not the maximum power of the processor.

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/white-paper/resources-xeon-measuring-processor-power-paper.pdf

[Drak3]

28 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

Not quite the "First i5 with Hyper-Threading", my laptop's i5 7200U is hyperthreaded, though I guess it could be for desktop CPUs.

 

I just want to see some major improvements on single thread performance..

No, it's not even the first desktop i5 with hyperthreading. It'd be the first quadcore i5 with hyperthreading, but seeing as the only two differences between the Core i5 and Core i7 lines are A) Hyperthreading and B) an additional 2MB of Cache on the i7, it'd be a waste of Intel's time, unless 8th gen i7's are 6c/8t parts on desktop, and no less than 4c/8t on mobile.

[Valentyn]

2 hours ago, zMeul said:

no, it does not: https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/chipsets/desktop-chipsets/x99.html

Lol, I own the Asus X99 Deluxe, it does as the complete package is more than the sum of a single chipset.
 

I have 5x PCIe Gen 3 slots, and a 28 PCIe lanes, upto to 40.

The PCIe-gen to part of the chipset does not influence the PCIe slots in anyway.

https://www.asus.com/ie/Motherboards/X99DELUXE/

 

There's more to a motherboard than just the Chipset in the end, and the same applies to Ryzen. X99 is a grand chipset with plenty of life left; hence Broadwell-E being a drop in replacement; for a chipset originally designed for Haswell-E.

 

 

Just like Z270 only supports PCIe speeds of 1x/2x and 4x. Yet the complete package most certainly does not limit any PCIe graphics card to those speeds since there are faster slots; as the CPU is the important function there.

[cj09beira]

2 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

I've seen 120-130+W on my i7-4790K (88W TDP) at stock, when running Prime95 28.7 small FFT.  (Temps hit 100°C, & it throttles to 3.7 GHz, if I haven't cleaned the dust out in a while.  Cooler is a 212 Evo.)

 

 

 

I'd really like to see a few things from Intel within the next year or less ...

 

• Greatly improve the IPC - for example, a 3 GHz or less single thread would do 300 or more in Cinebench R15
• Slash the prices considerably across the entire stack.  At minimum I'd like to see the i7-6900K dropped to the price of the R7-1700/X, and other prices slashed a similar percentage.  Even better would be slashing the entire line by the same percentage that Westmere and older Xeons have fallen on ebay.  Give the high-end SKUs the bigger cut, to even out the price/performance curve across the stack, or give the high-end parts (like E7-8894 v4 or 7290) slightly better price/performance than lower-end parts (like G3930 or N3450).
• If you're going to change sockets again, standardize things.  Use the same socket across the entire stack, and keep the same socket longer we can upgrade our CPUs a couple times without having to change the motherboard.  At minimum, keep the same socket until the switch to DDR5, and preferably let us upgrade to another CPU on the same socket the same year the 10-year warranty on a high-end PSU (bought with the motherboard) expires.

There isnt much left for improvemet on ipc at all unless we through efficiency out of the window completly.  

In terms of socket its better for you as a comsumer to have 2 because it means the lower market doesn't need to pay for emorextras they wont use like: pci-e. Stronger vrm and quad channel memory

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, zMeul said:

no, it does not: https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/chipsets/desktop-chipsets/x99.html

Um you know the CPUs in the X99 platform have PCIe Gen 3 right... Even my 4930K in X79 has PCIe Gen 3. The CPU lanes are used for thing like GPUs and other PCIe expansion cards, the chipset lanes are used for things like SATA controllers which simply don't need Gen 3. If you want to know what PCIe options are available on a motherboard read it's manual or the CPU that goes in it not the chipset manual since that has little to do with the actual PCIe slots on the motherboard.

 

Asus Rampage IV Black Edition:

Quote

Expansion Slots

4 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x16 or dual x16 or x16/x8/x16 or x16/x8/x8/x8, black) *¹
2 x PCIe 2.0 x1

https://www.asus.com/nz/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_IV_BLACK_EDITION/specifications/

 

Edit:

Oh and before you bring up some points you should know why PCIe Gen 2 on the chipset is helpful. You can use PCIe Gen 3 lanes from the CPU to the chipset then offer double the number in Gen 2 so you get more flexibility.

[Glenwing]

1 hour ago, Valentyn said:

Lol, I own the Asus X99 Deluxe, it does as the complete package is more than the sum of a single chipset.
 

I have 5x PCIe Gen 3 slots, and a 28 PCIe lanes, upto to 40.

The PCIe-gen to part of the chipset does not influence the PCIe slots in anyway.

https://www.asus.com/ie/Motherboards/X99DELUXE/

 

There's more to a motherboard than just the Chipset in the end, and the same applies to Ryzen. X99 is a grand chipset with plenty of life left; hence Broadwell-E being a drop in replacement; for a chipset originally designed for Haswell-E.

 

 

Just like Z270 only supports PCIe speeds of 1x/2x and 4x. Yet the complete package most certainly does not limit any PCIe graphics card to those speeds since there are faster slots; as the CPU is the important function there.

 

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Um you know the CPUs in the X99 platform have PCIe Gen 3 right... Even my 4930K in X79 has PCIe Gen 3. The CPU lanes are used for thing like GPUs and other PCIe expansion cards, the chipset lanes are used for things like SATA controllers which simply don't need Gen 3. If you want to know what PCIe options are available on a motherboard read it's manual or the CPU that goes in it not the chipset manual since that has little to do with the actual PCIe slots on the motherboard.

 

Asus Rampage IV Black Edition:

https://www.asus.com/nz/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_IV_BLACK_EDITION/specifications/

The X99 chipset's auxiliary lanes are PCIe 2.0, not 3.0.

 

These are a separate set of lanes from the primary lanes provided by socket 2011 CPUs, which are PCIe 3.0.

[Glenwing]

[leadeater]

Just now, Glenwing said:

 

The X99 chipset's auxiliary lanes are PCIe 2.0, not 3.0.

 

These are a separate set of lanes from the primary lanes provided by socket 2011 CPUs, which are PCIe 3.0.

Yea I'm ware of that, see edit. What I don't see is how X99 having Gen 2 PCIe lanes is a problem or justification for saying it's an aging platform. Intel went with Gen 2 for a reason and so did AMD with Ryzen.

[DarkBlade2117]

Doesn't matter if the i5 gets HT if they pull the same BS they did with the 7350k and make it the same price as an i7-7700

[DarkBlade2117]

5 hours ago, cj09beira said:

intels tdp is a worst case senario, they almost never reach this value

What?? Lol... No.

[vanished]

6 hours ago, TheKDub said:

Not quite the "First i5 with Hyper-Threading", my laptop's i5 7200U is hyperthreaded, though I guess it could be for desktop CPUs.

 

I just want to see some major improvements on single thread performance..

And that's not the first either  

https://ark.intel.com/products/52229/Intel-Core-i5-2520M-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_20-GHz

(tbh this probably isn't even, but it's still older)