Intel's responses to AMD Ryzen with i7 7740K and i5 7640K

[Drak3]

12 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

And that's not the first either  

https://ark.intel.com/products/52229/Intel-Core-i5-2520M-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_20-GHz

(tbh this probably isn't even, but it's still older)

 

@TheKDub

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/48504/Intel-Core-i5-680-Processor-4M-Cache-3_60-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/43556/Intel-Core-i5-670-Processor-4M-Cache-3_46-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/43553/Intel-Core-i5-661-Processor-4M-Cache-3_33-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/43550/Intel-Core-i5-660-Processor-4M-Cache-3_33-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/48750/Intel-Core-i5-655K-Processor-4M-Cache-3_20-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/43546/Intel-Core-i5-650-Processor-4M-Cache-3_20-GHz

 

Hyperthreading on the desktop i5 dates back to the first generation. While the earliest was a 4 core component (i5-750, Q3 2009), there were multiple 2c/4t that released along side the second 4c/4t, and the final first gen i5 was a 4c/4t part. First gen desktop Core i5 stacks up like this:

2c/4t: 6 offerings

4c/4t: 3 offerings

 

Also, the processor you listed is a mobile part, not a desktop part.

Here's the 2nd gen desktop hyperthreaded i5:

http://ark.intel.com/products/53448/Intel-Core-i5-2390T-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

 

3rd gen:

http://ark.intel.com/products/65703/Intel-Core-i5-3470T-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

 

4th gen:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75045/Intel-Core-i5-4570T-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

 

With no desktop hyperthreaded i5's for 5th, 6th, or 7th generation lines. Also, no hyperthreaded Core i5's with 4 physical cores, making the supposed 7640K the first in that specific regard, should rumors be correct.

 

Also, note, these are all classified as "desktop" CPUs by Intel. Ryan's link points to a mobile chip, where hyperthreaded dual core i5's are extremely prevalent.

[zMeul]

9 hours ago, Valentyn said:

-

mate, cut the bullshit

 

I told you X99 does not have PCie gen3 support and you said not true

I gave you the spec sheet from Intel that proves it only has gen2 support - period

 

if X99 mobos have PLX chips put there by the mobo manufacturers is utter irrelevant

[JohnnyCorporalTech]

1 hour ago, zMeul said:

mate, cut the bullshit

 

I told you X99 does not have PCie gen3 support and you said not true

I gave you the spec sheet from Intel that proves it only has gen2 support - period

 

if X99 mobos have PLX chips put there by the mobo manufacturers is utter irrelevant

Actually, PCIe 3.0 is handled on the CPU itself. It is shown under the technical specifications page of the website you linked. 

[zMeul]

Just now, JohnnyCorporalTech said:

Actually, PCIe 3.0 is handled on the CPU itself. It is shown under the technical specifications page of the website you linked. 

the discussion was about the chipset, X99, not the CPUs

[JohnnyCorporalTech]

Just now, zMeul said:

the discussion was about the chipset, X99, not the CPUs

Oh, ok. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, zMeul said:

mate, cut the bullshit

 

I told you X99 does not have PCie gen3 support and you said not true

I gave you the spec sheet from Intel that proves it only has gen2 support - period

 

if X99 mobos have PLX chips put there by the mobo manufacturers is utter irrelevant

Why does it matter that the very small number of PCIe lanes from the X99 chipset itself are Gen 2? The DMI interface only has so much bandwidth, if Intel went with Gen 3 you could only have half the number which is worse not better. You are correct the X99 chipset does not have PCIe Gen 3 but the X99 platform as a whole does have PCIe Gen3.

 

X99 came out way after Gen 3 existed, using Gen 2 was a design choice made by Intel it doesn't reflect in any way it's age or being outdated.

 

I simply don't understand your point, you get 28/40 PCIe Gen 3 lanes from the CPU and 8 PCIe Gen 2 lanes from the chipset. This as mentioned is the same configuration as X79.

 

NVMe M.2 SSDs also use PCIe lanes from the CPU so we can rule that out as a potential issue.

 

It is time for a new chipset but PCIe Gen 2 and DMI 2.0 on the chipset aren't actually limiting factors currently, unless you really really want more than 14 USB ports and 10 SATA ports?

 

You wont see any big changes in X299 other than DMI 3.0 and 8 PCIe Gen 3 lanes, it's going to be very much the same as X99. Any new features of significance will be tied to the CPU architecture and UEFI firmware, new chipset features will be small or even none.

 

1 hour ago, zMeul said:

if X99 mobos have PLX chips put there by the mobo manufacturers is utter irrelevant

The PLX chips act on the CPU PCIe lanes not the chipset lanes. Also fun fact the Asus X99 Deluxe does not have a PLX chip anyway.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Why does it matter that the very small number of PCIe lanes from the X99 chipset itself are Gen 2? The DMI interface only has so much bandwidth, if Intel went with Gen 3 you could only have half the number which is worse not better. You are correct the X99 chipset does not have PCIe Gen 3 but the X99 platform as a whole does have PCIe Gen3.

X99 mobos "have" PCIe gen3 because of PLX chips that aggregate all PCIe lanes and distribute them as necessary

the fact is and still remains that the X99 chipset uses PCie gen2 lanes and that was those point - an outdated platform

 

as for DMI matters or not, the Z270 boards can accommodate 2* m.2 PCIe 4x SSDs without the need for PLX chips

[Teddy07]

On 7.2.2017 at 9:31 PM, ♠FlamieMeister♠ said:

ANNNDDDDD There goes any buyers interested in the i7 7700k. Intel: Killing their own flagship products since 1968.

Correct me if i am wrong but the 7700k is still the best cpu for the 1151 socket cause as far as i know the 7740k and 7640k are for the new LGA2066 socket?

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

X99 mobos "have" PCIe gen3 because of PLX chips that aggregate all PCIe lanes and distribute them as necessary

the fact is and still remains that the X99 chipset uses PCie gen2 lanes and that was those point - an outdated platform

 

as for DMI matters or not, the Z270 boards can accommodate 2* m.2 PCIe 4x SSDs without the need for PLX chips

X99 motherboards don't use PLX chips, where on earth are you getting that from?

[Space Reptile]

On 7.2.2017 at 1:14 AM, Deli said:

For the 1001 th time. The TIM that Intel uses is good stuff. If you can find some better thermal paste that can withstand as much heat cycles and years of use, you win.

liquid metal? unless you go LN2 that stuff does not break

 

heck even MX2/4 holds for a long time 

[zMeul]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

X99 motherboards don't use PLX chips, where on earth are you getting that from?

yes they do

 

ASUS X99-E WS

 

[leadeater]

Just now, zMeul said:

yes they do

 

ASUS X99-E WS

 

 

Yes that board does, THAT board. Use a smaller brush, your painting more objects that your trying to.

 

And just so you know most X99 motherboard replaced the second M.2 slot for a U.2 connector.

[zMeul]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes that board does, THAT board. Use a smaller brush, your painting more objects that your trying to.

 

And just so you know most X99 motherboard replaced the second M.2 slot for a U.2 connector.

except those m.2 work in PCIe gen2: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8557/x99-motherboard-roundup-asus-x99-deluxe-gigabyte-x99-ud7-ud5-asrock-x99-ws-msi-x99s-sli-plus-intel-haswell-e

 

---

 

ASRock X99 WS-E/10G also uses 2 PLX switches: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8781/asrock-x99-ws-e-10g-motherboard-review-dual-10gbaset-for-prosumers

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99 WS-E10G/

 

and I can keep going, but I have other things to do atm

[MorganO]

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

-snip-

What is the point your trying to make?

[zMeul]

Just now, KOMTechAndGaming said:

What is the point your trying to make?

I already made my point, but some people are adamant to say the X99 is not outdated

[MorganO]

Just now, zMeul said:

I already made my point, but some people are adamant to say the X99 is not outdated

and what is said point?

 

x99 cpus have 28/40 pcie3.0 lanes FROM the cpu, and the chipset provides 8 pcie 2.0 lanes.

not exactly outdated mate

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

except those m.2 work in PCIe gen2: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8557/x99-motherboard-roundup-asus-x99-deluxe-gigabyte-x99-ud7-ud5-asrock-x99-ws-msi-x99s-sli-plus-intel-haswell-e

Quote

With 40 lanes of CPU bandwidth, manufacturers need not use a PCIe 2.0 x4 slot from the chipset for three-way Crossfire support, giving extra free lanes to the chipset for these new storage technologies. Alternatively, some manufacturers are taking advantage of the CPU lanes and using four of these for an M.2 slot, as shown in this MSI chipset diagram

Quote

This may seem complicated, but at the end of the day the extreme enthusiast can have either:

- 3x GPUs + PCIe 3.0 x4 M.2, or
- 4x GPUs + PCIe 2.0 x2 M.2

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8557/x99-motherboard-roundup-asus-x99-deluxe-gigabyte-x99-ud7-ud5-asrock-x99-ws-msi-x99s-sli-plus-intel-haswell-e

 

Also be mindful not all motherboard use the same PCIe lane configurations.

[Valentyn]

Just now, KOMTechAndGaming said:

What is the point your trying to make?

He has no point. He stated all X99 use PLC chips. That's not true, some do; most do not.

The ones he keeps linking are workstation boards; ones where the normal 40 lanes of PCIe Gen 3 might not be enough; hence the PLC chip for more.

The majority of x99 boards do not have, nor need a PLC chip; as they have 28-40 lanes of PCIe Gen 3 depending on the CPU used.

[MorganO]

Just now, Valentyn said:

He has no point. He stated all X99 use PLC chips. That's not true, some do; most do not.

The ones he keeps linking are workstation boards; ones where the normal 40 lanes of PCIe Gen 3 might not be enough; hence the PLC chip for more.

The majority of x99 boards do not have, nor need a PLC chip; as they have 28-40 lanes of PCIe Gen 3 depending on the CPU used.

i figured that he had no point, I was wanting to hear it from him

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

He has no point. He stated all X99 use PLC chips. That's not true, some do; most do not.

The ones he keeps linking are workstation boards; ones where the normal 40 lanes of PCIe Gen 3 might not be enough; hence the PLC chip for more.

The majority of x99 boards do not have, nor need a PLC chip; as they have 28-40 lanes of PCIe Gen 3 depending on the CPU used.

Wonder how many he had to sift through and ignore while trying to find two examples I myself already knew of and knew he would link before he did .

[Valentyn]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Wonder how many he had to sift through and ignore while trying to find two example I myself already knew of and knew he would link before he did .

Exactly; here's a detailed look at the chips on the X99 deluxe.

No surprise there's no PLC chip under the motherboard heatsink. Just the X99 chipset.

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/asus_x99_deluxe_review,10.html

 

The same for the MSI X99s Gaming 9 AC

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_x99s_gaming_9_ac_review,9.html

 

Also a shot of the Asus X99 A ii motherboard, showing the M.2/u.2 uses the PCIe Gen 3 lanes from the CPU.

I can't see how the Gen 2 lanes are going to bottleneck USB 3.1 or LAN any time soon.

[MorganO]

would it be worth upgrading to a 1800x from a i7-3930k?(that cant OC for shit now,(running stock))?

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Exactly; here's a detailed look at the chips on the X99 deluxe.

No surprise there's no PLC chip under the motherboard heatsink. Just the X99 chipset.

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/asus_x99_deluxe_review,10.html
 

The same for the MSI X99s Gaming 9 AC

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_x99s_gaming_9_ac_review,9.html

It's not like I disagree that it's time X99 got updated, but it's not due to limitations of the chipset and correctness in facts isn't much to ask. If everyone believed what was being stated then they would think all X99 motherboards had them which simply isn't true and they are the extreme minority. 

[dexT]

25 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

liquid metal? unless you go LN2 that stuff does not break

 

heck even MX2/4 holds for a long time 

Gelid GC-Extreme is non-curing and would be my pick.

[leadeater]

20 minutes ago, KOMTechAndGaming said:

would it be worth upgrading to a 1800x from a i7-3930k?(that cant OC for shit now,(running stock))?

Wouldn't want to answer that question until reviews.