Tesla Remove Software Features from Used Model S

[RonnieOP]

8 minutes ago, vetali said:

Theres this lady that buys a new car from us every year. Not lease, but finances. Buys the same trim HR-V just in a different color so people know she got a new car.

 

I bought my first new car last year. Usually always bought used, but some kid kept coming in and asking about my car in the employee parking area. Eventually the sales manager gave me a good enough deal on my old car (value was plummeting on them quickly anyway) for a 19 Civic hatch sport touring. Figured I'd be bored of it already but I still enjoy it, even after getting to actually drive a Type R on some back roads.

tbh im not a car guy. Ive bought one new car my entire life and it was my wifes subaru that was a gift when our second kid was born.

 

I always buy cheap used cars that are busted up. buy them cheap and drive them until the doors rust off. My current daily driver is an 07 cobalt. Got it for roughly $1300 iirc. Was crashed and now theres no driver airbag, no ac, and the traditional primer hood and bumper lol.

 

I am interested in an electric car in the future. that will probably be my first personal new car. but im waiting a long time to see whats out. I wasnt a Tesla fan before this story and this really doesnt make me want to give them my money.

 

I dont care about autopilot personally. It will probably have to be forced on me by alw before i ever used it. but them trying to force people into buying from tesla to keep features is a bunch of bs imo.

 

If I buy a used ford or gm i dont loose sync, onstar, etc. And if you buy a used tesla you shouldnt lose autopilot, fast charging etc.

 

I watched Paulshardware video on the tesla power grid and he mentioned that if it slot access to the internet for more then a few days it wouldnt work. Thats pretty fishy imo. Shit like that is why im avoiding tesla.

[GoodBytes]

8 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Im confused on what you mean by "interesting financial options".

 

You can finance,lease,buy, etc a used car the same way you can new ones.

 

If you buy a used car from a dealership you get the same options as a new one. If you buy one from someone off craigslist you can get a loan from a bank (basically the same as buying from the dealer).

You mean <1% or even 0% for 3-5 years - fixed rate? Well, I guess in the US you have so many banks you are bound to find someone that offers this, but here in Canada is not even remotely close when I look into it. And when I asked a family member in the US, while it was lower, it was well over what you can get from the manufacture with a big bank.

 

8 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

And why would people with some money but not alot finance a new car? It would be much mich cheaper to buy or finance a used car.

Well, the calculation bellow is not exact, but essentially, and assuming the car + tax is, say 30k (I think it is a pretty nice average price), new. And say for teh used car 1 year old, so 18% down in value (med-high mileage), and say for a period of 48months. Let's also assume you negotiate the price of the car down to compensate any b.s dealership fees for when you lease and used car.

 - Finance: 30k x 0% financing / 48 = $625.00 per month

 - Lease:   15k x 0% financing / 48 = $312.00 per month

 - Used car (1 year old) finance: 24,6k x 5.23% (assuming you have the best score, and in the US, based on usnews.com) / 48 = 569.00 per month.

 

So yes, Leasing is drastically cheaper. Of course, this excludes the value of the car, and all the traps, but people tend to only look per month basis, and ignore the rest.

If you don't have a prefect credit score, then the rate of the used car, can easily match the new car, which already isn't much difference, and if you drive a little per year, that also helps increase the value of the car. Finding a low mileage used car requires, typically requires more effort on your time, and hope the car wasn't sold because it has many problems. And, most people don't break-in their engines when teh car is new, so it is another knock down in planning to have the car for  along time without problems.

 

8 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Which makes much more sense if your low on funds. Buying a new car is probably one of yhe worst financial decisions you can make since on most cars the value drops dramatically the second you drive it off the lot (not to mention interest rates which make it even more expensive).

Correct. but are all your computer parts used when you got them? How about your laptop or tablet (if you have one)?

 

 

8 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Most cars last years and years with just basic repairs. Its not like after a few years your going to be replacing a cars engine or transmission.

Except when your A/C condenser leaks costing you over $1000 to fix, despite a Honda, or your car frame rust through despite a Toyota, or how about the oil delusion issue that is affecting a growing number of cars (most those with Turbos), which most people don't know, and don't know the damage that is occurring in the engine, nor can you, even if you inspect the car without engine teardown, especially if the car doesn't have an actual oil "health" meter (one that doesn't go with distance travel, but rather how the engine behaves and sensors). If the car is new, you know have full knowledge on how you care about the car, including ensuring you treat well teh engine during teh break-in period (most don't know or care). Used, you have no control. All you have, is at best, a history of the services done, mileage the car has (which excludes the time car engine runs but the car is not moving... city driving, car always remote started to cool/warm itself, etc.. adding wear to the engine you don't know about), and if the car had any accidents.

 

Although, soon all this will be much less of a worry with electric car. I mean it can know how many times it has been charged, at what % the battery was stopped charging, the number of cycles it has... a lot more valuable information to the buyer and better asses the value of the car. All you need to care about, essentially, are the tires and suspensions, pretty much.

[GoodBytes]

28 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

I am interested in an electric car in the future. that will probably be my first personal new car. but im waiting a long time to see whats out. I wasnt a Tesla fan before this story and this really doesnt make me want to give them my money.

 

I dont care about autopilot personally. It will probably have to be forced on me by alw before i ever used it. but them trying to force people into buying from tesla to keep features is a bunch of bs imo.

Autopilot is far from being ready in my opinion. The biggest issue that Auto-pilot has, is that it is programmed in such a way to obey laws and regulations (as teh company is responsible for the system), but in reality, we, humans, tend to not follow many rules (I don't mean the basics like speeding, and crossing a red light.. yes, I know some do... they like to put everyone in danger including themselves because they can't wait 30sec, but anyways). For example, if your region has a law that state the distance between 2 cars before you can do a merge between them... well, no one comes out a ruler and measure, they just go in.. but auto-pilot can't take that action.. and so, if people don't keep their distances appropriately, your auto-pilot car might never merge.

 

[RonnieOP]

11 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You mean <1% or even 0% for 3-5 years - fixed rate? Well, I guess in the US you have so many banks you are bound to find someone that offers this, but here in Canada is not even remotely close when I look into it. And when I asked a family member in the US, while it was lower, it was well over what you can get from the manufacture with a big bank.

 

Well, the calculation bellow is not exact, but essentially, and assuming the car + tax is, say 30k (I think it is a pretty nice average price), new. And say for teh used car 1 year old, so 18% down in value (med-high mileage), and say for a period of 48months. Let's also assume you negotiate the price of the car down to compensate any b.s dealership fees for when you lease and used car.

 - Finance: 30k x 0% financing / 48 = $625.00 per month

 - Lease:   15k x 0% financing / 48 = $312.00 per month

 - Used car (1 year old) finance: 24,6k x 5.23% (assuming you have the best score, and in the US, based on usnews.com) / 48 = 569.00 per month.

 

So yes, Leasing is drastically cheaper. Of course, this excludes the value of the car, and all the traps, but people tend to only look per month basis, and ignore the rest.

If you don't have a prefect credit score, then the rate of the used car, can easily match the new car, which already isn't much difference, and if you drive a little per year, that also helps increase the value of the car. Finding a low mileage used car requires, typically requires more effort on your time, and hope the car wasn't sold because it has many problems. And, most people don't break-in their engines when teh car is new, so it is another knock down in planning to have the car for  along time without problems.

 

Correct. but are all your computer parts used when you got them? How about your laptop or tablet (if you have one)?

 

 

Except when your A/C condenser leaks costing you over $1000 to fix, despite a Honda, or your car frame rust through despite a Toyota, or how about the oil delusion issue that is affecting a growing number of cars (most those with Turbos), which most people don't know, and don't know the damage that is occurring in the engine, nor can you, even if you inspect the car without engine teardown, especially if the car doesn't have an actual oil "health" meter (one that doesn't go with distance travel, but rather how the engine behaves and sensors). If the car is new, you know have full knowledge on how you care about the car, including ensuring you treat well teh engine during teh break-in period (most don't know or care). Used, you have no control. All you have, is at best, a history of the services done, mileage the car has (which excludes the time car engine runs but the car is not moving... city driving, car always remote started to cool/warm itself, etc.. adding wear to the engine you don't know about), and if the car had any accidents.

 

Although, soon all this will be much less of a worry with electric car. I mean it can know how many times it has been charged, at what % the battery was stopped charging, the number of cycles it has... a lot more valuable information to the buyer and better asses the value of the car. All you need to care about, essentially, are the tires and suspensions, pretty much.

I cant speak for anywhere other then the US. I know nothing about other areas.

 

But if you have a good credit score you can get a good rate from any many banks. On the subaru we went with a local bank that gave us better rates then what the dealership could offer us. This is really circumstantial though. But your credit scores will also be considered when it comes to lease payments as well.

 

And when im talking about people with "some" money buying used im not talking a year old car. for example my sister just bought a 2015 chevy cruze. It was 10k. Thats ALOT cheaper over 36 months then leasing or financing a new car. not to mention the weird things they put in leases (like if you go over x amount of miles a year you pay more) and she will own the car after 3 years.

 

Obviously you need to have a trained eye look at a car before you buy it and do sum research. thats not much different then buying a new car either. Sure there are some things like you mention that cant just be seen by a naked eye....but alot of things can. And its not like thers a huge epidemic of used cars dying left and right.

 

AC Compressor leaks? dont fix it. AC does not effect a car from getting from point a to point b. And if you are low on funds it should not be a priority to pay $1k for an ac fix.

 

Im not sure what your getting at with the computer parts comparison tbh. a $1k pc losing a decent chunk of value is not nearly as bad as a $30k car losing a good chunk of its value.

[RonnieOP]

16 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Autopilot is far from being ready in my opinion. The biggest issue that Auto-pilot has, is that it is programmed in such a way to obey laws and regulations (as teh company is responsible for the system), but in reality, we, humans, tend to not follow many rules (I don't mean the basics like speeding, and crossing a red light.. yes, I know some do... they like to put everyone in danger including themselves because they can't wait 30sec, but anyways). For example, if your region has a law that state the distance between 2 cars before you can do a merge between them... well, no one comes out a ruler and measure, they just go in.. but auto-pilot can't take that action.. and so, if people don't keep their distances appropriately, your auto-pilot car might never merge.

 

tbh ill probably be dead before autopilot is a standard. So i wont have to worry about it.

 

[vetali]

44 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Except when your A/C condenser leaks costing you over $1000 to fix, despite a Honda

I love/hate those jobs. Pays 2.1 hours, can replace it in about half an hour, wait 45 minutes for the slow ass 1234yf machine. Thing is a piece of junk. And all Civics 16-18 got a lengthy warranty extension for condenser leaks.

 

31 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Autopilot is far from being ready in my opinion. The biggest issue that Auto-pilot has, is that it is programmed in such a way to obey laws and regulations (as teh company is responsible for the system), but in reality, we, humans, tend to not follow many rules (I don't mean the basics like speeding, and crossing a red light.. yes, I know some do... they like to put everyone in danger including themselves because they can't wait 30sec, but anyways). For example, if your region has a law that state the distance between 2 cars before you can do a merge between them... well, no one comes out a ruler and measure, they just go in.. but auto-pilot can't take that action.. and so, if people don't keep their distances appropriately, your auto-pilot car might never merge.

Auto pilot will never be as good as humans for judging the actions of drivers around you. Either it will be way too defensive and corrective or not enough. A cars camera system can't see the person in front of me shoulder checking, getting ready to get over without a signal. Auto pilot systems lean way too far into reactive for me to feel safe using it. Needs to be more defensive/proactive. Something I don't think can be achieved until every car on the road is self driving.

[Suika]

46 minutes ago, vetali said:

Auto pilot will never be as good as humans for judging the actions of drivers around you.

That's not true at all, not by current estimates. Just as you've been trained to react to certain actions of other drivers, computer software can be trained to react to certain actions of other drivers (kind of like it has been). Like if you can see another driver, why can't a camera and a computer see another driver? They absolutely can! They also have the advantage that the camera will always be looking at other drivers, because there are many of them, while your eyes can't remain too distracted.

 

I was going to go on a little rant about your post, but I think it's easiest to keep it simple with a little fun fact. It's actively being discussed that, within the next decade or so, many industries will be automated away, with one of the biggest, most impactful ones being truck driving. Autonomous driving is going to replace an entire industry about driving, far sooner than you seem to suggest by your distrust in auto pilot's ability to improve.

 

Auto pilot today isn't that good, but give it a decade, and we'll all look like dangerous, inefficient meatbags in comparison.

[vetali]

1 minute ago, Suika said:

That's not true at all, not by current estimates. Just as you've been trained to react to certain actions of other drivers, computer software can be trained to react to certain actions of other drivers (kind of like it has been).

 

I was going to go on a little rant about your post, but I think it's easiest to keep it simple with a little fun fact. It's actively being discussed that, within the next decade or so, many industries will be automated away, with one of the biggest, most impactful ones being truck driving. Autonomous driving is going to replace an entire industry about driving far, far sooner than you seem to suggest by your distrust in auto pilot's ability to improve.

 

Auto pilot today isn't that good, but give it a decade, and we'll all look like dangerous, inefficient meatbags in comparison.

We also were supposed to have flying cars 10 years ago.

 

Its gonna take a lot longer than 10 years for software to develop enough to reliably kill a trade. Tesla has had their auto pilot for about 5 years now? And no auto manufacturer has stepped up with a competitive package to that yet, which is a glorified LKAS + ACC without radars. We're very far from completely autonomous ground vehicles. Aviation has had auto pilot systems for quite a while now and they still require pilots.

[kuddlesworth9419]

I have no interest in electric cars, not my cup of tea. I'm more of a Jaguar XKR 4.2 litre supercharged V8 kind of guy. I have taste though which most people don't.

[Monkey Dust]

The future, as we are moving into increasingly dense urban environments, is public transport. By the time autonomous vehicles arrive there won't be room for all but a tiny minority to have their own box to move around in.

[suicidalfranco]

4 hours ago, Suika said:

That's not true at all, not by current estimates. Just as you've been trained to react to certain actions of other drivers, computer software can be trained to react to certain actions of other drivers (kind of like it has been). Like if you can see another driver, why can't a camera and a computer see another driver? They absolutely can! They also have the advantage that the camera will always be looking at other drivers, because there are many of them, while your eyes can't remain too distracted.

 

I was going to go on a little rant about your post, but I think it's easiest to keep it simple with a little fun fact. It's actively being discussed that, within the next decade or so, many industries will be automated away, with one of the biggest, most impactful ones being truck driving. Autonomous driving is going to replace an entire industry about driving, far sooner than you seem to suggest by your distrust in auto pilot's ability to improve.

 

Auto pilot today isn't that good, but give it a decade, and we'll all look like dangerous, inefficient meatbags in comparison.

the one thing i can't wait to see, auto pilots on trucks and the end of trucks trying to overtake each other on the highway

 

 

[GoodBytes]

6 hours ago, kuddlesworth9419 said:

I have no interest in electric cars, not my cup of tea. I'm more of a Jaguar XKR 4.2 litre supercharged V8 kind of guy. I have taste though which most people don't.

If you want performance and torque, then electric car is what you want.

Combustion engine have no power, that is why they have a transition.

 

And if it the sound you are after, then fear not, more and more cars are now outputting fake engine sounds through the car speakers as engine are getting smaller, and more fuel efficient. I don't see why car companies not add fake engine sounds to their electric cars in the future, actually Mustang electric variation has this already.

 

[Mr Nobody]

On 2/7/2020 at 7:30 AM, Bombastinator said:

I’m wondering if this has something to do with it specifically being autopilot Software and some sort of emdemnification issue.  The autopilot stuff has liability issues and the used dealer thing could have created a liability cutout.  I don’t know if this happened, I’m just guessing at possible reasons for this otherwise strange behavior.  Clearly a better solution is needed because this one causes problems.

 

Im also wondering if early model Tesla’s had more advanced autopilot software then newer ones.  This whole thing has the odor of missing information about it.

It isn't specific to autopilot. Tesla has for years removed cars with tainted titles from their system (cars that were in accidents, no matter how minor, which now carry a "salvage" or "rebuilt" title) , which nullifies the owners ability to use Tesla repair facilities, obtain parts directly from Tesla, and use their Supercharger network. They disavow anything to do with cars at their will.

There are some great videos about this very subject on the Youtube channel Rich Rebuilds, where he deals with the numerous challenges of owning a Tesla outside of the Tesla network.

[Bombastinator]

11 minutes ago, Mr Nobody said:

It isn't specific to autopilot. Tesla has for years removed cars with tainted titles from their system (cars that were in accidents, no matter how minor, which now carry a "salvage" or "rebuilt" title) , which nullifies the owners ability to use Tesla repair facilities, obtain parts directly from Tesla, and use their Supercharger network. They disavow anything to do with cars at their will.

There are some great videos about this very subject on the Youtube channel Rich Rebuilds, where he deals with the numerous challenges of owning a Tesla outside of the Tesla network.

Salvage titles certainly aren’t minor.  I don’t know what “rebuilt” signifies.  Good to know though.

[Suika]

11 hours ago, vetali said:

We also were supposed to have flying cars 10 years ago.

Based on what? Bold predictions from 1970? You can't compare those to educated estimates based on the current rate of progress that only cover 10 years.

11 hours ago, vetali said:

Its gonna take a lot longer than 10 years for software to develop enough to reliably kill a trade.

Software is going to kill a lot of trades before 2030, autonomous driving is just the most talked about because that's something that would affect the lives of many. If you don't believe software is going to kill entire trades, then you're in for a rude awakening.

11 hours ago, vetali said:

Tesla has had their auto pilot for about 5 years now? And no auto manufacturer has stepped up with a competitive package to that yet

There have been auto manufacturers releasing various level of autonomous driving packages. GM already has autonomous driving packages competitive with Tesla's Auto Pilot and plans on releasing 22 more vehicles with it included as an option by 2023. There are other brands including Toyota releasing lower levels of autonomous driving packages as of today for much cheaper than Tesla, the difference however is that Tesla's autopilot is a bit ahead of Toyota's and we know that Tesla has talked about upgrading their current vehicles for level 4 autonomy when it becomes available (which they've argued was going to be this year... but I don't think we'll see it until 2023-2025).

11 hours ago, vetali said:

We're very far from completely autonomous ground vehicles.

We really aren't. Just looking at progress that Tesla has made in 1 year is pretty astounding, and Tesla isn't even the leading player in autonomous driving.

[Mr Nobody]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Salvage titles certainly aren’t minor. 

They actually can be. A car these days can carry a salvage title for purely cosmetic damages. If a car is stolen and the insurance pays out on it, and the car is later recovered, it is dinged with a salvage title. Same goes for some hail damage cars. I recently saw a Youtube video of a Ferrari that had a salvage title, solely because the car had hit a curb and scraped the undercarriage of the car. The damage was purely cosmetic, but the carbon fiber undercarriage was integral to the car to the point that the entire chassis would have to be replaced to get rid of the gouges.
 

Insurance is weird like that.

 

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 I don’t know what “rebuilt” signifies.

In many states, if you buy a car with a salvage title and you repair the car, you get it inspected by the state and then they rebrand the title as "rebuilt".

[Bombastinator]

59 minutes ago, Mr Nobody said:

They actually can be. A car these days can carry a salvage title for purely cosmetic damages. If a car is stolen and the insurance pays out on it, and the car is later recovered, it is dinged with a salvage title. Same goes for some hail damage cars. I recently saw a Youtube video of a Ferrari that had a salvage title, solely because the car had hit a curb and scraped the undercarriage of the car. The damage was purely cosmetic, but the carbon fiber undercarriage was integral to the car to the point that the entire chassis would have to be replaced to get rid of the gouges.
 

Insurance is weird like that.

 

In many states, if you buy a car with a salvage title and you repair the car, you get it inspected by the state and then they rebrand the title as "rebuilt".

So rebuilt is salvage.  I’ve got a car with 5 bad body panels that could be considered salvage in that repairing all of them costs more than the car is worth so the car has little value.  except they happened at different times, so it’s not a salvage title car.  A car that gets 5 body panels that badly damaged in one accident would probably have to roll or something.  The Ferrari issue would be specific to Ferrari, and probably that one model of Ferrari which is still not a tesla.  This sounds to me like something that makes sense the vast majority of the time but perhaps not all the time.  It’s good to know though.

[Mr Nobody]

Like I said, you'd be surprised how easy it is to salvage out a car these days. Even a Tesla.

[TechyBen]

15 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

You mean <1% or even 0% for 3-5 years - fixed rate? Well, I guess in the US you have so many banks you are bound to find someone that offers this, but here in Canada is not even remotely close when I look into it. And when I asked a family member in the US, while it was lower, it was well over what you can get from the manufacture with a big bank.

Spoiler

 

Well, the calculation bellow is not exact, but essentially, and assuming the car + tax is, say 30k (I think it is a pretty nice average price), new. And say for teh used car 1 year old, so 18% down in value (med-high mileage), and say for a period of 48months. Let's also assume you negotiate the price of the car down to compensate any b.s dealership fees for when you lease and used car.

 - Finance: 30k x 0% financing / 48 = $625.00 per month

 - Lease:   15k x 0% financing / 48 = $312.00 per month

 - Used car (1 year old) finance: 24,6k x 5.23% (assuming you have the best score, and in the US, based on usnews.com) / 48 = 569.00 per month.

 

So yes, Leasing is drastically cheaper. Of course, this excludes the value of the car, and all the traps, but people tend to only look per month basis, and ignore the rest.

If you don't have a prefect credit score, then the rate of the used car, can easily match the new car, which already isn't much difference, and if you drive a little per year, that also helps increase the value of the car. Finding a low mileage used car requires, typically requires more effort on your time, and hope the car wasn't sold because it has many problems. And, most people don't break-in their engines when teh car is new, so it is another knock down in planning to have the car for  along time without problems.

 

Correct. but are all your computer parts used when you got them? How about your laptop or tablet (if you have one)?

 

 

Except when your A/C condenser leaks costing you over $1000 to fix, despite a Honda, or your car frame rust through despite a Toyota, or how about the oil delusion issue that is affecting a growing number of cars (most those with Turbos), which most people don't know, and don't know the damage that is occurring in the engine, nor can you, even if you inspect the car without engine teardown, especially if the car doesn't have an actual oil "health" meter (one that doesn't go with distance travel, but rather how the engine behaves and sensors). If the car is new, you know have full knowledge on how you care about the car, including ensuring you treat well teh engine during teh break-in period (most don't know or care). Used, you have no control. All you have, is at best, a history of the services done, mileage the car has (which excludes the time car engine runs but the car is not moving... city driving, car always remote started to cool/warm itself, etc.. adding wear to the engine you don't know about), and if the car had any accidents.

 

Although, soon all this will be much less of a worry with electric car. I mean it can know how many times it has been charged, at what % the battery was stopped charging, the number of cycles it has... a lot more valuable information to the buyer and better asses the value of the car. All you need to care about, essentially, are the tires and suspensions, pretty much.

 

 

Just as a note, in reality "0%" is a myth/parlour trick. Unless predatory on people getting late payment fees/% rate pumping after the "interest free period" on a majority of payers (also scammy) then the costs are front loaded and hidden into the product.

I got a laptop years ago on "0% interest free credit" except it was £100 more than in any other shop. Thus they got their lending costs for certain out of that one.  Cars thus, are priced with this in them for all models/garages/industry standard AFAIK, similar to phones a decade ago, once the UK stopped the "contract subsidised phones" and decoupled the phone sim contract for the phone, all prices changed as they could not dump costs/savings between the two secretly (for example a cheap sim but an overpriced phone, or a cheap phone but an overpriced sim. Now as sims and phones are swappable, stores cannot assume the user will overpay/over use either contract so has to make it profitable in principle normal use cases).

[Dabombinable]

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

If you want performance and torque, then electric car is what you want.

Combustion engine have no power, that is why they have a transition.

 

And if it the sound you are after, then fear not, more and more cars are now outputting fake engine sounds through the car speakers as engine are getting smaller, and more fuel efficient. I don't see why car companies not add fake engine sounds to their electric cars in the future, actually Mustang electric variation has this already.

 

*looks at vintage direct drive high torque cars* External combustion (steam) also doesn't need a gearbox with Doble being the best examples.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Mr Nobody said:

Like I said, you'd be surprised how easy it is to salvage out a car these days. Even a Tesla.

The old conventional wisdom was “never ever Ever buy a car with a salvage title”. This appears in the 2000’s to have become somewhat less true eapecially for edge cases like classic and super cars.  Apparently it remains true for tesla.

[Bombastinator]

38 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

*looks at vintage direct drive high torque cars* External combustion (steam) also doesn't need a gearbox with Doble being the best examples.

How many dobel’s exist today?

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

How many dobel’s exist today?

Few, like all steam cars (they are the best though - super heated steam). Point is combustion engines can be built to not need transmission (another example, old extremely high capacity engines in the range of 14L+).

Edit: The main reason we have transmissions at all is so that the engines don't need to work at extremely high RPM.

[mr moose]

I think if they tried to pull something like that in Australia the ACCC would have a field day with them.

[Guest willies leg]

Yeah, it's really disappointing. I guess software is expensive to build.

I got a model 3 and didn't get the full self driving. Only got the enhanced autopilot. I'll tell you what, it's really magical the way it works. Stop and go traffic I just kick it in and relax now. Worth the extra money. But full self driving isn't all there yet, I didn't see any reason to fork over the extra cash. Now if I buy it, it's $7,000 + tax. And from what I understand, it goes with the car when I sell it. So when I get a new Tesla I have to buy Enhanced Autopilot + FSD again. Not too happy about that.

 

But I'll tell you, the Tesla is an amazing car. And as more automakers go electric, I'm sure Tesla will be forced to change their strategy a bit. One thing's for sure, Tesla isn't a car company. They're a tech company selling a computer with wheels.