How do you even cool this thing - i9-10990XE + 10th gen i3/i5 spotted

[Bombastinator]

27 minutes ago, comander said:

I crunch numbers. I can write sin(x) or cos(x) but there's very very little point to me knowing that c² = a² + b² − 2ab cos(C) or how to integrate transcendentals.

Perhaps.  But you can also probably follow a postulate.  Also if you’re ever in your attic and happen to look at your roof beams, you may notice that there are exactly enough of them to keep your house from falling in And no more.  

[Bombastinator]

12 hours ago, comander said:

Congrats, you've determined that practicing structural engineers, civil engineers, electrical engineers, etc. need to know* some reasonably sophisticated trig and mechanics. This is something like 1-2% of the population. 

*not done in practice, likely uses software which does most/all of the work on the backend. Probably useful to know how it works under the hood.

The following things (which pay 1.5-10x as much) often don't: software engineers (sans graphics), investment bankers, management consultants, etc. 

----

I'm going to stand with "trig isn't THAT useful". There's plenty of stuff in HS math that is VERY useful. 

Also anyone working on the things they do as well.  So most of the building trades.  It’s less complicated trig of course.

 

i ran into a guy here trying to build a desk with som monitors attached to it that couldn’t figure out why the thing wanted to topple over backwards.  The concepts taught in trig would have helped him a lot.  

[Brooksie359]

8 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The majority of businesses are too small to have either.  HR: the owner.  Accounting: the owner.  Management: the owner Janitorial: the owner.  The saying about drumming a small business is you get to make you own hours.  You get to pick which 12.

At a certain point you get to big for that to be possible and chances are you wouldn't hire someone to do that work if they weren't needed. The point is that determining an employee's worth by how much revenue they bring in is inherently flawed especially considering that is fairly hard to quantify. 

[Results45]

18 hours ago, williamcll said:

How do you even cool this thing

 

2 possible ways:

 

#1: An dry-ice chilled alcohol-loop "chillinator"

 

In short what you do is run copper tubing along the inside of a cooler, fill the tubing with alcohol, and the rest of the cooler with dry ice.

 

 

Spoiler

.

The Mythbusters (@ 6:20-6:59) proved that chilling liquid to 35^o in a couple minutes via water+ice+salt and maintaining that temperature is possible. Later (@ 15:50-16:09) Adam built such a "chillinator" with dry-ice (with water, not alcohol):

.

 

Cuz people have chilled room-temperature beer to sub-freezing temps in under a minute using this method:

 

"While many individuals are content with the use of ice+water or ice+water+salt in order to make a fast-acting heat transfer pool, Renderman took this to a wickedly insane level by opting for isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) which has a freezing point of -128º F (-89º C) and utilizing chunks of dry ice (which has a surface temp around -109º F / -78º C) in order to turn his cooler into a soupy, foggy vat which held a temperature of about -90º F (-68º C)"

 

source: https://deviating.net/bccc/results/#dc14

 

Again the idea is to keep isopropyl alcohol chilled at around -90^o F or under (given dry ice is able to cool alcohol faster than water) and use it* to chill the water in your LC loop.

 

 

#2: AEROGEL

 

.

[spartaman64]

13 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Most people buy based on price/performance (even those who build systems for commercial use still consider price/perf as much if not more than power draw) so this product will either sink or swim based on that.  Sure the odd company out there will have a bean counter suggesting otherwise,  but productivity generally always trumps power consumer at the levels we are talking here.

but the psu wattage requirement is a concern especially when commercial computer have those shitty generic psu. and most people have probably around a 600w psu heck even a 750w psu would be cutting it close so having to buy a new more expensive psu would hurt the price per performance. i remember someone in another thread saying that buying a large psu is pointless since newer computer parts are using less power not more but apparently intel has other ideas . and i dont think intel is interested in going for the best price given the pricing of the 9980xe and im not sure if they even can considering that monolithic dies have much worse production yield than the chiplet design of amd so amd can always price theirs lower

[porina]

21 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

what about threadripper or heck even just the 3950x

Totally missed the point in suggesting those. HFT is everything about speed first. Core count is way down the list, but at some point you still need a bunch of them. This CPU probably wont be much different in performance in that use case compared to 9900XE, but increases density a bit.

 

Hypothetically if AMD binned the best of the best Zen 2 chiplets for all core boost clock, it might be able to compete. I don't know if they will have an IPC advantage to make up for the clock in this use case.

[Bombastinator]

5 hours ago, Results45 said:

 

2 possible ways:

 

#1: An dry-ice chilled alcohol-loop "chillinator"

 

In short what you do is run copper tubing along the inside of a cooler, fill the tubing with alcohol, and the rest of the cooler with dry ice.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

.

The Mythbusters (@ 6:20-6:59) proved that chilling liquid to 35^o in a couple minutes via water+ice+salt and maintaining that temperature is possible. Later (@ 15:50-16:09) Adam built such a "chillinator" with dry-ice (with water, not alcohol):

.

 

Cuz people have chilled room-temperature beer to sub-freezing temps in under a minute using this method:

 

"While many individuals are content with the use of ice+water or ice+water+salt in order to make a fast-acting heat transfer pool, Renderman took this to a wickedly insane level by opting for isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) which has a freezing point of -128º F (-89º C) and utilizing chunks of dry ice (which has a surface temp around -109º F / -78º C) in order to turn his cooler into a soupy, foggy vat which held a temperature of about -90º F (-68º C)"

 

source: https://deviating.net/bccc/results/#dc14

 

Again the idea is to keep isopropyl alcohol chilled at around -90^o F or under (given dry ice is able to cool alcohol faster than water) and use it* to chill the water in your LC loop.

 

 

#2: AEROGEL

 

.

Aerogel is a very light weight, very expensive, very effective fire resistant barrier.  There is cheaper stuff that does the same job with similar if perhaps greater thickness though.  Like Sheetrock.  It’s much much heavier though.

[thorhammerz]

12 hours ago, comander said:

I'm going to stand with "trig isn't THAT useful". There's plenty of stuff in HS math that is VERY useful. 

The concepts and applications, yes.

 

The ability to do them by hand on paper with proofs.... generally not so much .

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, thorhammerz said:

The concepts and applications, yes.

 

The ability to do them by hand on paper with proofs.... generally not so much .

Not for doing math anyway.  The proofs are the only training in logic high school kids get though.  It’s inadequate but at least it’s there.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

but the psu wattage requirement is a concern especially when commercial computer have those shitty generic psu. and most people have probably around a 600w psu heck even a 750w psu would be cutting it close so having to buy a new more expensive psu would hurt the price per performance. i remember someone in another thread saying that buying a large psu is pointless since newer computer parts are using less power not more but apparently intel has other ideas . and i dont think intel is interested in going for the best price given the pricing of the 9980xe and im not sure if they even can considering that monolithic dies have much worse production yield than the chiplet design of amd so amd can always price theirs lower

I think you missed the point I was making.  This part can't just be summarily dismissed using only one metric , and at that one that is not even the most important for most people who would even be considering it.

[redbread123]

this is going to burn down austin evans house office again (and everyone elses too)

[Zando_]

6 minutes ago, redbread123 said:

this is going to burn down austin evans house office again (and everyone elses too)

IDK bruh, I can already get just my GPU to pull around 380W, CPU probs around 300W at least. House hasn't burned down yet, and that's just one of my rigs. 

[spartaman64]

2 hours ago, porina said:

Totally missed the point in suggesting those. HFT is everything about speed first. Core count is way down the list, but at some point you still need a bunch of them. This CPU probably wont be much different in performance in that use case compared to 9900XE, but increases density a bit.

 

Hypothetically if AMD binned the best of the best Zen 2 chiplets for all core boost clock, it might be able to compete. I don't know if they will have an IPC advantage to make up for the clock in this use case.

idk anything about high frequency trading so if you say so. i thought that they would make their program scale well with multiple cores but idk maybe not and i think amd does have an IPC advantage 

[redbread123]

7 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

IDK bruh, I can already get just my GPU to pull around 380W, CPU probs around 300W at least. House hasn't burned down yet, and that's just one of my rigs. 

r/woosh

[spartaman64]

55 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I think you missed the point I was making.  This part can't just be summarily dismissed using only one metric , and at that one that is not even the most important for most people who would even be considering it.

you were saying if its good price to performance then people wont care right. but im saying that unless they price it riddiculously low the fact that it needs a bigger psu and probably the highest end motherboard and cooler will cut into that even if they made it competitively priced so the wattage still matters in that respect. the extra money you have to spend on other things because of the cpu is basically part of the cost of the cpu is what im saying

[Zando_]

2 minutes ago, redbread123 said:

r/woosh

No I got that you were meming on a youtuber who had his house burn down a couple years ago, and lost everything but the clothes on his back and the MacBook Pro he was able to grab before everything went up in flames IIRC. 

I was addressing the other side of that meme, which is thinking that 380W = impossible to cool. It's certainly easier to cool on a GPU due to them using direct die cooling, but there's direct die cooling kits for CPUs too. 

[redbread123]

11 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

No I got that you were meming on a youtuber who had his house burn down a couple years ago, and lost everything but the clothes on his back and the MacBook Pro he was able to grab before everything went up in flames IIRC. 

I was addressing the other side of that meme, which is thinking that 380W = impossible to cool. It's certainly easier to cool on a GPU due to them using direct die cooling, but there's direct die cooling kits for CPUs too. 

smh you're fun at parties, it's possible to cool ofc, i'm just saying intel is like jeremy clarkson, SPEED AND POWER!!! (and heat)

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

idk anything about high frequency trading so if you say so. i thought that they would make their program scale well with multiple cores but idk maybe not and i think amd does have an IPC advantage 

All I know about HFT is it’s maybe a bit of a scam.  They use computers to do day trading.  It’s all about fastest possible action.  They pay extra to have their machines placed physically near the trading server to reduce the tiny amout if lag in the direct connection and it’s the only place one earth someone familiar with liquid nitrogen overclocking can make a living.  It’s a weird weird subset of computing.

[mr moose]

23 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

you were saying if its good price to performance then people wont care right.

Correct, majority of people who would buy this product will not consider power draw. 

Quote

but im saying that unless they price it riddiculously low the fact that it needs a bigger psu and probably the highest end motherboard and cooler will cut into that even if they made it competitively priced so the wattage still matters in that respect. the extra money you have to spend on other things because of the cpu is basically part of the cost of the cpu is what im saying

 

Competitively priced is an end use specific metric.  What is good value for you is not he same as me because we come from different positions, workload and type, purchasing constrictions, current hardware, OEM support etc.  You must remember that majority consumers will buy this product from an OEM,  not as a part to upgrade themselves. 

 

As I said, price/perf will determine if this product will sink or swim, not power draw.   Those concerned about power draw will likely already have a xeon/epyc based solutions in their shortlist. 

 

EDIT: just for clarification, I have not said this product will be successful or a failure, I am simply saying power draw is not a metric you can use to summarily conclude it as a failure.   To do that you'd need a crystal ball. 

[spartaman64]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Correct, majority of people who would buy this product will not consider power draw. 

 

Competitively priced is an end use specific metric.  What is good value for you is not he same as me because we come from different positions, workload and type, purchasing constrictions, current hardware, OEM support etc.  You must remember that majority consumers will buy this product from an OEM,  not as a part to upgrade themselves. 

 

As I said, price/perf will determine if this product will sink or swim, not power draw.   Those concerned about power draw will likely already have a xeon/epyc based solutions in their shortlist. 

OEMs wont like it either since they cant use their shitty generic psus for this and they are not going to be paying the extra money and they are going to pass it onto the consumer so its not just oh higher electricity bill it affects other parts of the computer. so i dont see how what i said wont apply to OEM computers if fact it probably will apply more since they cant cheap out on what they usually cheap out on 

[Zando_]

15 minutes ago, redbread123 said:

i'm just saying intel is like jeremy clarkson, SPEED AND POWER!!! (and heat)

Which appeals to a lot of people, just like Jeremy Clarkson does. 

[mr moose]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

OEMs wont like it either since they cant use their shitty generic psus for this and they are not going to be paying the extra money and they are going to pass it onto the consumer so its not just oh higher electricity bill it affects other parts of the computer. so i dont see how what i said wont apply to OEM computers if fact it probably will apply more since they cant cheap out on what they usually cheap out on 

I don't know where you got the Idea that OEM'S use generic or shitty PSU's, they don't.  They design and build systems and give them a warranty.  OEM's like HP, Dell, Lenovo supply to large businesses who do not have time for shit that doesn't work or has a high failure rate.  OEM's design and sell products where there is a product demand.

 

Again, power draw is only one metric,  it will not fail to be a thing based on power draw.  It might fail if there is another CPU out there that OEM's would make more money on, but it won't be a power draw issue, 100W is nothing in the scheme of productivity.

[porina]

11 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

All I know about HFT is it’s maybe a bit of a scam.  They use computers to do day trading.  It’s all about fastest possible action.  They pay extra to have their machines placed physically near the trading server to reduce the tiny amout if lag in the direct connection and it’s the only place one earth someone familiar with liquid nitrogen overclocking can make a living.  It’s a weird weird subset of computing.

HFT is a real thing, and people make money off it, is it a scam? Basically it is no worse than the higher risk financial activities people do. Speed is everything. More slower cores is just slower. Believe systems are typically water cooled, no more extreme than that. Keep in mind these are big dies, the thermal density nowhere near as bad as Zen 2. In the old days people would try to get their computers as physically close to the exchange as possible to reduce the connection distance. Now, exchanges can provide on site facilities, but they make sure the cable runs are equal length to all sections so no one gets an advantage that way. They still have to play somewhat competitively against others trying the same.

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, porina said:

HFT is a real thing, and people make money off it, is it a scam? Basically it is no worse than the higher risk financial activities people do. Speed is everything. More slower cores is just slower. Believe systems are typically water cooled, no more extreme than that. Keep in mind these are big dies, the thermal density nowhere near as bad as Zen 2. In the old days people would try to get their computers as physically close to the exchange as possible to reduce the connection distance. Now, exchanges can provide on site facilities, but they make sure the cable runs are equal length to all sections so no one gets an advantage that way. They still have to play somewhat competitively against others trying the same.

So a scam.  My information is spotty and fractured.  It’s considered the weirdest of the weird as stock market stuff goes.

[spartaman64]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I don't know where you got the Idea that OEM'S use generic or shitty PSU's, they don't.  They design and build systems and give them a warranty.  OEM's like HP, Dell, Lenovo supply to large businesses who do not have time for shit that doesn't work or has a high failure rate.  OEM's design and sell products where there is a product demand.

 

Again, power draw is only one metric,  it will not fail to be a thing based on power draw.  It might fail if there is another CPU out there that OEM's would make more money on, but it won't be a power draw issue, 100W is nothing in the scheme of productivity.

these dont really inspire confidence for me but idk we'll see i guess