Samsung hangs on to the cell - new rugged phone with removable battery

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Why don't you take a look at the newer Motorola Z phones? With the swappable battery packs it's easier than changing out a battery and you get significantly longer life.

While my Mum was happy with her Moto G1 that her S5 replaced (battery looked easily replaceable but wasn't), at this point she'd rather go with Samsung as she's had good experiences with their products.

[dizmo]

1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

While my Mum was happy with her Moto G1 that her S5 replaced (battery looked easily replaceable but wasn't), at this point she'd rather go with Samsung as she's had good experiences with their products.

Then she won't get the features she wants *shrugs*

[Dabombinable]

15 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Then she won't get the features she wants *shrugs*

She would with another new S5 (which will have the benefits of several revisions), or one of the Xcover models, which all seem to have removable batteries.

[dizmo]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I didn't talk about making a specific phone. I said I wanted a system for rating them.   Something transparent that makes it easier for consumers to choose phones that have smaller environmental impacts. 

The point was that such a system would be pointless. It'd just result in higher hidden waste due to companies producing replacement parts that are unlikely to be used so that they could get a higher score on the scale. The only thing that will really make a huge change, is if all flagship devices cost over $1,500, and we eliminate anything in the mid priced category.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

The point was that such a system would be pointless. It'd just result in higher hidden waste due to companies producing replacement parts that are unlikely to be used so that they could get a higher score on the scale. The only thing that will really make a huge change, is if all flagship devices cost over $1,500, and we eliminate anything in the mid priced category.

 

I don't think so,   It's not actually as hard as you think to produce phones that all share the same battery/screen. They are all within bull spit of each other already and most of the screens are already made by the same 2 manufacturers.   Many industries enjoy standardized hardware. phones don't have to be any different.

 

EDIT: Besides that, if I have the choice between two phones and one has a better rating due to any number of conditions (even product sourcing) then if nothing else changes I can still make a difference by simply buying that.

[dizmo]

10 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I don't think so,   It's not actually as hard as you think to produce phones that all share the same battery/screen. They are all within bull spit of each other already and most of the screens are already made by the same 2 manufacturers.   Many industries enjoy standardized hardware. phones don't have to be any different.

People don't keep them long enough for it to matter. Unless you completely change the yearly upgrade cycle, and stagnate the market, that's not going to change.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, dizmo said:

People don't keep them long enough for it to matter. Unless you completely change the yearly upgrade cycle, and stagnate the market, that's not going to change.

...yearly upgrade cycle for phones?  The manufacturers may change every year but most people themselves don’t.

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, dizmo said:

People don't keep them long enough for it to matter. Unless you completely change the yearly upgrade cycle, and stagnate the market, that's not going to change.

 

The average upgrade cycle is just over 2 years.   That means for everyone who updates before then someone waits even longer.  And on top of that you have to take out the number of people who upgrade due to breakage and not just wanting a new phone.   

 

Anyway you split it being able to repair a phone cheaper than buying a new one will have an impact on waste.

 

EDIT: and that still doesn't change the fact that if someone can buy a more environmentally friendly phone from the onset regardless of how often they upgrade/repair, it is still better for the environment. 

[dizmo]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Anyway you split it being able to repair a phone cheaper than buying a new one will have an impact on waste.

It already is.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, dizmo said:

It already is.

just not common once a phone gets to 2 years old.

[mr moose]

There is no reason a phone shouldn't last 5+ years.   Not being able to produce a phone that can do that with today's technology is essentially a choice. 

[Bombastinator]

I myself never upgrade a phone unless it breaks.  Either physically or stops being updated.  Breakage or forced obsolescence.

I still got a perfectly good palm phone sitting around.  My current is an iPhone 7.  I put screen protectors on it to reduce the chance it will break so I can keep it longer.  Broke two of those already.  I’ll likely be using the thing till they stop updating it.  There are people who like having the newest flashy thing and there are people who don’t like spending money if they can avoid it.

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

There is no reason a phone shouldn't last 5+ years.   Not being able to produce a phone that can do that with today's technology is essentially a choice. 

There kind of is.  Batteries wear out.  Replace the battery though and it will keep working.

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There kind of is.  Batteries wear out.  Replace the battery though and it will keep working.

Exactly, it can easily be replaceable (as they all used to be) and it's the only part that has a legitimate less than 5 years life expectancy. 

[IgorM]

On 1/10/2020 at 6:23 AM, Arika S said:

They have a bezel but still wanted to stick their infinity o on it

Hahahha Ikr. Maybe they are taking some parts from the regular model.

[Nowak]

On 1/10/2020 at 3:05 AM, williamcll said:

IP69

nice

[dizmo]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

just not common once a phone gets to 2 years old.

I think you mean it's not common for it to be repaired after two years. But what does that have to do with manufacturers, and how is a rating going to help with that?
It won't.

That's strictly a consumer issue.

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

There is no reason a phone shouldn't last 5+ years.   Not being able to produce a phone that can do that with today's technology is essentially a choice. 

They do last 5 years. Again, consumer issue.

[7nationarmy]

On 1/10/2020 at 7:25 PM, PacketMan said:

Put an OLED display on it and it's a Galaxy S killer for most people here and in /g/

According to this, it does have an AMOLED panel. Not sure why news sites are reporting differently.

On 1/11/2020 at 1:26 AM, 2Buck said:

Give it a headphone jack and I'll finally have a worthy S5 replacement...

Seems to have a headphone jack in the video.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

I think you mean it's not common for it to be repaired after two years.

 

It's not common for them to get repaired after two years for many reasons not the least of which is because parts are not always available unless you buy something really popular and cost of repairs/parts v new phone (something the rating would take into account).

 

Quote

But what does that have to do with manufacturers, and how is a rating going to help with that?
It won't.

That's strictly a consumer issue.

They do last 5 years. Again, consumer issue.

 

A rating will help consumers to choose phones that are better for the environment.  Just like current consumer guides help consumers buy ethical coffee,  cotton etc.  It's not a complex issue.

 

You seem to be stuck on this idea that phones can't be manufactured or designed in a way that is better for the environment. You think consumers won't change when given a chance.  The reality is once something becomes popular, not only do consumers choose it,  but it gets the point where consumers no longer have a choice because no seller wants to be seen as that one that doesn't care.   Consumers are emotional/bandwagon driven creatures.  Especially with the climate being such a hot topic, when phone A has a better rating than phone B it's sales will go up.  Manufacturers will start redesigning their products to get better ratings.

 

As has been discovered in much research o the topic:

Quote

Household consumers typically want a simple, emotional connection to products. They do not need to understand the science, or be fully cognizant of production practices, but they want to feel good about what they purchased (e.g., Fair Trade products, Box 4).

 

By having a legitimate score of how environmentally friendly a product is will effect it's sales because consumer care about it.

https://www.nap.edu/read/12805/chapter/6

 

Also, people are happy to pay more for a product knowing that money goes into bettering the lives of other people.  I tried to have this discussion in another thread regarding cobalt mining and child labor,  shifting the social narrative on products will force a change at the other end of supply chain simply because it's bad PR not to for the companies that want to sell you a premium product.  Especially if a cheaper competitor has that accreditation, consumers will switch.

 

Quote

According to TransFair USA, the increase in Fair Trade prices is not always used to increase crop production. TransFair USA has found that farmers often invest Fair Trade revenues into improving their homes, sending their children to school, and on farming methods and equipment that improve crop quality, rather than increasing production.

 

Never underestimate the power of social narrative.  Which is exactly what a rating like I want would play to.

 

 

[Brooksie359]

12 hours ago, dizmo said:

I don't think there's enough people that would buy an Active phone. Samsung is good at repeatedly throwing something against the wall until it sticks.

If they've given up on something, the market simply doesn't exist in any financially viable way.

 

 

Why don't you take a look at the newer Motorola Z phones? With the swappable battery packs it's easier than changing out a battery and you get significantly longer life.

The thing is, it's not as simple as just making a phone like that.
While yes, you can have replacement parts like that, you have to mass produce them to make it viable. On top of that, you have to have enough people to purchase said devices to make that feasible. It's simply not a very good way to go. And, honestly, most phones do have 10 year lifespans. They get sold or passed on to someone else, or they go overseas, where they're recycled or sold to developing nations. It's like like they all just go into a huge junkyard.

The market crying for removable batteries is likely a lot smaller than you seem to think.

It's not hard to have a high IP rating, all it takes is rubber seals and gaskets.

I don't think this phone really has the spec to be in the Galaxy line.

Being able to have a phone without ports is an innovation. Especially if they've improved wireless charging to the point you really don't lose out on anything over wired charging. Which they have. So. Bring on the portless future. If you don't think it's innovation, I don't think you really understand the meaning of the word.

They make these things called battery banks...

Wireless charging is incredibly wasteful as the efficiency is pretty crap compared to conventional methods. Also not having the ability to easily plug your phone into a computer is a problem as well. I mean technically any new concept or idea is an innovation but that doesn't all of a sudden make those ideas worthy of pursuit. I have an idea how about we make a phone that doesn't have a speaker and a microphone and instead ship it with a bluetooth earpiece. Isn't that innovative? Removing features for no apparent reason because we can?

[dizmo]

4 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Wireless charging is incredibly wasteful as the efficiency is pretty crap compared to conventional methods. Also not having the ability to easily plug your phone into a computer is a problem as well. I mean technically any new concept or idea is an innovation but that doesn't all of a sudden make those ideas worthy of pursuit. I have an idea how about we make a phone that doesn't have a speaker and a microphone and instead ship it with a bluetooth earpiece. Isn't that innovative? Removing features for no apparent reason because we can?

It's not that wasteful. Is it as efficient? Not right now. But it's not like you're sucking back 5x the power. It's maybe 10% less efficient, and it can be faster than a lot of wired methods, so the efficiency loss is really negated by the time of charge. Funny, there's this thing called wifi and bluetooth, both which allow file transfer. I plug my phone into a PC maybe 3 times a year. If that.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

I think you mean it's not common for it to be repaired after two years. But what does that have to do with manufacturers, and how is a rating going to help with that?
It won't.

That's strictly a consumer issue.

They do last 5 years. Again, consumer issue.

This whole “consumer issue” thing rubs me the wrong way.  I’m tired of manufacturers making things designed to become useless quickly in order to sell more things.  The entire “let’s make the product worse so we can make more money!” factor has killed companies in the past and bespeaks an abject failure of the system we live in.

[Brooksie359]

5 minutes ago, dizmo said:

It's not that wasteful. Is it as efficient? Not right now. But it's not like you're sucking back 5x the power. It's maybe 10% less efficient, and it can be faster than a lot of wired methods, so the efficiency loss is really negated by the time of charge. Funny, there's this thing called wifi and bluetooth, both which allow file transfer. I plug my phone into a PC maybe 3 times a year. If that.

I plug my phone into my work computer quite often and it does not have bluetooth or wifi so no ports would be a huge issue. There are actually alot of pcs that don't have bluetooth or wifi and only rely on ethernet. 

[dizmo]

10 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I plug my phone into my work computer quite often and it does not have bluetooth or wifi so no ports would be a huge issue. There are actually alot of pcs that don't have bluetooth or wifi and only rely on ethernet. 

There's these things called adapters. They work pretty well.

 

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

There's these things called adapters. They work pretty well.

 

By adapters I assume you mean Bluetooth or WIFI USB wireless access points?