Rene Ritchie throws down the gauntlet with Linus

[Giiman95]

Source: 

Disclaimer: no actual gauntlets or metaphorical gauntlets were thrown down. Just an interesting comment on a recent LTT video. I posted this video here for people to see a video linked to LTT. 

 

 

[corrado33]

Wait... so there actually WERE comparisons to other.... similarly specced and shaped laptops in another video where linus himself says that the 2018 MacBook pro was often.... faster... than those windows laptops. 

 

Wow, the bias is really coming out now. hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Conversation I imagine going on at LTT for this video's script.

 

Writer: "And here we say that macs are SLOWER than windows machines, and they throttle SO MUCH." 

 

Shy person in corner: "But didn't we just publish a video saying that the MacBook pro 2018 was faster than similar computers with the same specs, even in sustained workloads?"

 

Writer: "Yeah we don't need to include any comparisons in this video, bashing apple gives us views and we don't want to be seen actively saying that yes, while apple's laptops DO throttle.... everyone else's thin laptops ALSO throttle... and are usually slower than the mac.... We're already pushing the issue by saying that the "mac tax" doesn't really exist, and proving it. If we go any further we may start losing windows fanboys."

[Guest]

This is really cool, but even as a Mac fan (top fan on FaceBook thank you), it doesn’t matter. I don’t buy my computer for performance, why should I care. 

[JustWantTech]

INB4 Let's call linus again so we can get people hold thier pitch fork while I eat popcorns.

 

Oh wait, let's call louis rossman instead

[NeuesTestament]

7 hours ago, corrado33 said:

"But didn't we just publish a video saying that the MacBook pro 2018 was faster than similar computers with the same specs, even in sustained workloads?"

 

Only in some workloads. The MacBookPro also throttles a lot, but obviously not more than similiar thin Windows notebooks. Physics apply both to Apple and non Apple laptops.

[Chunchunmaru_]

sees angry apple fanboys in the comments

 

closes video

[Sauron]

7 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Wait... so there actually WERE comparisons to other.... similarly specced and shaped laptops in another video where linus himself says that the 2018 MacBook pro was often.... faster... than those windows laptops.

I haven't watched either video (I will as soon as I have time) but from what I know it makes sense that the macbooks would be faster in some tests - mainly due to storage speed - but slower in cpu intensive sustained workloads due to throttling.

 

Other than that, while it may or may not apply to the latest macbook pros I could show you evidence of at least one macbook performing a lot worse than a much cheaper and equally specced windows laptop - the macbook 2015.

12 minutes ago, NeuesTestament said:

Physics apply both to Apple and non Apple laptops.

Yes, but Apple is specifically infamous for inadequate cooling and for preferring to cook the cpu rather than ramp up the fans. Also again, the macbook 2015 throttled into oblivion while the equally fanless asus ux303 did not despite having the same cpu. Of course competing laptops don't run cooler just by virtue of running windows and not every laptop is well designed but Apple isn't among the best when it comes to thermal design, not by a long shot.

[Bouzoo]

38 minutes ago, NeuesTestament said:

Only in some workloads. The MacBookPro also throttles a lot, but obviously not more than similiar thin Windows notebooks. Physics apply both to Apple and non Apple laptops.

As someone who has a MBP 2017 at home, sometimes when I do multiple tasks, like have 10 pdf files opened, 20 chrome tabs, or actually sometimes when I only download huge stuff like 5-10 GB files at high speeds it gets much hotter than it needs, noticeably more than any ultrabook I've used. Not gonna compare it to notebooks since it's not a notebook. Physics apply accordingly to the tested system and environment. 

[NeuesTestament]

2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

As someone who has a MBP 2017 at home, sometimes when I do multiple tasks, like have 10 pdf files opened, 20 chrome tabs, or actually sometimes when I only download huge stuff like 5-10 GB files at high speeds it gets much hotter than it needs, noticeably more than any ultrabook I've used.

I don't have any first hand experience. My last MBP was the 2009 I got used from my dad. All I am saying is that powerful CPUs and small and thin notebooks don't go well togehter.

[NeuesTestament]

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

Yes, but Apple is specifically infamous for inadequate cooling and for preferring to cook the cpu rather than ramp up the fans.

I give you that. It is a terrible design choice because it increases the likelihood of failures and will get worse once the fans clock up

[corrado33]

On 5/3/2019 at 5:11 AM, Bouzoo said:

As someone who has a MBP 2017 at home, sometimes when I do multiple tasks, like have 10 pdf files opened, 20 chrome tabs, or actually sometimes when I only download huge stuff like 5-10 GB files at high speeds it gets much hotter than it needs, noticeably more than any ultrabook I've used. Not gonna compare it to notebooks since it's not a notebook. Physics apply accordingly to the tested system and environment. 

The reason you've likely noticed this is because macs use their aluminum bodies as heatsinks, therefore the body of the computer gets hot. Plastic bodied windows computers don't... but often have hot as hell air coming out the side of them. 

[corrado33]

On 5/3/2019 at 4:51 AM, Sauron said:

I haven't watched either video (I will as soon as I have time) but from what I know it makes sense that the macbooks would be faster in some tests - mainly due to storage speed - but slower in cpu intensive sustained workloads due to throttling.

 

Other than that, while it may or may not apply to the latest macbook pros I could show you evidence of at least one macbook performing a lot worse than a much cheaper and equally specced windows laptop - the macbook 2015.

Yes, but Apple is specifically infamous for inadequate cooling and for preferring to cook the cpu rather than ramp up the fans. Also again, the macbook 2015 throttled into oblivion while the equally fanless asus ux303 did not despite having the same cpu. Of course competing laptops don't run cooler just by virtue of running windows and not every laptop is well designed but Apple isn't among the best when it comes to thermal design, not by a long shot.

Maybe you should watch the videos and see the bias for yourself then. Here is one example pulled from linus's OWN VIDEO where he showed that the 2018 macbook pro was just as fast, or even faster at VIDEO rendering, a very cpu intensive process, than other similarly specced computers, even desktops.

 

Also I know of very few CPU intensive workloads that DON'T involve using storage simultaneously. Gaming maybe, but again, I think we've established that mac's aren't gaming machines. Cinebench sure, and that may explain the low scores macbooks often get with that program. 

 

 

The bias is unreal here. Complete bullshit. 

[Sauron]

27 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

Also I know of very few CPU intensive workloads that DON'T involve using storage simultaneously.

Anything that has to do with 3d rendering (not games) or compilation, for instance. I have a friend who freelances as a visual jockey (a cpu and gpu intensive workload that barely uses storage at all) and is a diehard Apple fan; he had to buy two new macbooks in the last 2 years AND get an external gpu enclosure because they keep cooking themselves after a few months of regular 2-3h performances. They don't downright die but they randomly turn off and he can't afford that mid performance. It's funny because while macOS offer a more reliable experience than Windows it's completely nullified by the terrible design of the machines themselves.

 

Premiere rendering is definitely a storage intensive workload - why do you think LMG editors use a rendering server with dozens of SSDs in raid?

47 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

Cinebench sure, and that may explain the low scores macbooks often get with that program.

Do you know what Cinebench scores actually represent? It's the benchmark Maxon makes to rate the performance of a computer in Cinema4D, a 3D modeling and animation software. It's not just a random stress test, it has a real world meaning.

[SenKa]

On 5/3/2019 at 4:11 AM, Bouzoo said:

As someone who has a MBP 2017 at home, sometimes when I do multiple tasks, like have 10 pdf files opened, 20 chrome tabs, or actually sometimes when I only download huge stuff like 5-10 GB files at high speeds it gets much hotter than it needs, noticeably more than any ultrabook I've used. Not gonna compare it to notebooks since it's not a notebook. Physics apply accordingly to the tested system and environment. 

Solution is Mac Fan Control. Downloaded online, fixes every Macbook I have ever touched that throttled. This includes:

 

Late 2012 15" MBP (Stalled the inevitable death of the GPU for a very long time)

Late 2009 Macbook Polycarb

Late 2008 Macbook Aluminum Unibody

[LinusTech]

2 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Maybe you should watch the videos and see the bias for yourself then. Here is one example pulled from linus's OWN VIDEO where he showed that the 2018 macbook pro was just as fast, or even faster at VIDEO rendering, a very cpu intensive process, than other similarly specced computers, even desktops.

 

Also I know of very few CPU intensive workloads that DON'T involve using storage simultaneously. Gaming maybe, but again, I think we've established that mac's aren't gaming machines. Cinebench sure, and that may explain the low scores macbooks often get with that program. 

 

 

The bias is unreal here. Complete bullshit. 

I guess you missed our Zenbook Pro review where we complained about how much it thermal throttled. 

 

And conveniently you also missed the part where we mentioned in the 'Macs are slower' video that it's a problem with some Windows laptops too. 

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Pemiere rendering is definitely a storage intensive workload - why do you think LMG editors use a rendering server with dozens of SSDs in raid?

 

No, it's not. That's not why we edit off a high speed raid. The actual export/encoding process would perform similarly on a mechanical drive. 

[FezBoy]

7 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

No, it's not. That's not why we edit off a high speed raid. The actual export/encoding process would perform similarly on a mechanical drive. 

To elaborate on this, the reason that they use a high speed raid is (as I gather) to smooth out scrubbing through video.  They are essentially streaming 8k video at a much higher speed than it would normally be played.

 

Also, bragging rights.

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Premiere rendering is definitely a storage intensive workload - why do you think LMG editors use a rendering server with dozens of SSDs in raid?

If you're working with high resolution video, like say 4K, then processing power is largely going to be your bottleneck from beginning to end.

 

[JoostinOnline]

@LinusTech Respectfully, as long as you keep using titles that are (at best) misleading for the sake of clicks, people will be unhappy. It seems like a very obvious truth that you haven't wanted to face. Yes, you mentioned other manufacturers, but the title made it about operating systems.

[aezakmi]

Who? Never heard of him

[FezBoy]

5 minutes ago, aezakmi said:

Who? Never heard of him

Just some ranting mac fanboy

[corrado33]

3 hours ago, LinusTech said:

I guess you missed our Zenbook Pro review where we complained about how much it thermal throttled. 

 

And conveniently you also missed the part where we mentioned in the 'Macs are slower' video that it's a problem with some Windows laptops too. 

Oh... you mean the 1 sentence where you said something to the effect of "Windows laptops throttle too." but then continued to ignore that fact for the rest of the video and pretend that it was a uniquely mac problem? Even TITLING the video "Macs are slower" when in reality... your own research shows that they aren't..... when compared to windows machines of similar build and specs? 

 

Oh yeah, sure. No, I didn't miss it. I'm angry with the fact that YOU downplayed it to make macs seem shittier to get more views, despite your OWN videos showing exactly opposite what you're claiming in this video. You could have done a SINGLE comparison in this video. Showed the graph above.... anything. But no, you didn't. You instead just ignored ANY data that would indicate that this is a THIN LAPTOP problem, and NOT a "mac" problem and that the mac laptops actually seem to deal with it rather well, given the circumstances. But no. Again, bashing apple gives you views. Apple clickbait gives you views. It's ridiculous and honestly shameful for anybody who considers themselves an honest to goodness "tech" youtube channel. You're approaching buzzfeed levels of trustworthiness. 

[Bouzoo]

11 hours ago, corrado33 said:

The reason you've likely noticed this is because macs use their aluminum bodies as heatsinks, therefore the body of the computer gets hot. Plastic bodied windows computers don't... but often have hot as hell air coming out the side of them. 

That is a possibility. It is certainly a worse solution considering it's really noticeable under your fingers, on a 2000 euro machine. And that's the i5 model. 

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Oh... you mean the 1 sentence where you said something to the effect of "Windows laptops throttle too." but then continued to ignore that fact for the rest of the video and pretend that it was a uniquely mac problem? Even TITLING the video "Macs are slower" when in reality... your own research shows that they aren't..... when compared to windows machines of similar build and specs? 

 

Oh yeah, sure. No, I didn't miss it. I'm angry with the fact that YOU downplayed it to make macs seem shittier to get more views, despite your OWN videos showing exactly opposite what you're claiming in this video. You could have done a SINGLE comparison in this video. Showed the graph above.... anything. But no, you didn't. You instead just ignored ANY data that would indicate that this is a THIN LAPTOP problem, and NOT a "mac" problem and that the mac laptops actually seem to deal with it rather well, given the circumstances. But no. Again, bashing apple gives you views. Apple clickbait gives you views. It's ridiculous and honestly shameful for anybody who considers themselves an honest to goodness "tech" youtube channel. You're approaching buzzfeed levels of trustworthiness. 

Why do you watch?

[Sauron]

10 hours ago, LinusTech said:

No, it's not. That's not why we edit off a high speed raid. The actual export/encoding process would perform similarly on a mechanical drive. 

Well, I stand corrected

[JustWantTech]

22 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Oh... you mean the 1 sentence where you said something to the effect of "Windows laptops throttle too." but then continued to ignore that fact for the rest of the video and pretend that it was a uniquely mac problem? Even TITLING the video "Macs are slower" when in reality... your own research shows that they aren't..... when compared to windows machines of similar build and specs? 

 

Oh yeah, sure. No, I didn't miss it. I'm angry with the fact that YOU downplayed it to make macs seem shittier to get more views, despite your OWN videos showing exactly opposite what you're claiming in this video. You could have done a SINGLE comparison in this video. Showed the graph above.... anything. But no, you didn't. You instead just ignored ANY data that would indicate that this is a THIN LAPTOP problem, and NOT a "mac" problem and that the mac laptops actually seem to deal with it rather well, given the circumstances. But no. Again, bashing apple gives you views. Apple clickbait gives you views. It's ridiculous and honestly shameful for anybody who considers themselves an honest to goodness "tech" youtube channel. You're approaching buzzfeed levels of trustworthiness. 

Louis rossman bash apple and he did this for views? /s